Echoes of A New Tomorrow: Life after Revolution in the Commonwealth of Britain

[Ix:Risor]

Thank you again, @Ix:Risor! It is a pleasure having you on board, and I’m very glad to have had the chance to hear your thoughts in such detail.

It's a pleasure to be here!

Would people be interested generally in some occasional revisionist chapters looking at periods we’ve already covered? They could either work as a stand-alone postscript or I could work them into the fabled volume 2.

I would be very interested in this myself, whether as addenda or part of the prophesied second volume

 

[jak7139]

Would people be interested generally in some occasional revisionist chapters looking at periods we’ve already covered? They could either work as a stand-alone postscript or I could work them into the fabled volume 2.

I would. Seeing how your views on this AAR and its characters have changed would be interesting.

 

[jak7139]

Arthur Kitson, a monetary theorist whose contribution to economics extended no further than an entrenched belief that the Jews controlled all of world finance.

And yet that somehow is enough to convince Leese. This makes me think Leese was already sympathetic to these ideas, he just needed a little push.

The final defeat of the fascist movement at the end of June came as a result of concerted action by the government, the military and the new intelligence services.

Mosley will probably get most of the credit though.

In effect, the government was now fighting an irregular war against an internal enemy, who made scant distinction between combatant and civilian in their crusade against the vague forces of global “Judeo–Bolshevism”.

And how does one fight an unseen enemy? The Commonwealth's government is fighting a war against guerillas. While the fascists are fighting a nonexistent conspiracy. Usually if you want people to fight, and win, you need real, tangible foes, not vague ideals. This is where the Commonwealth has an advantage: The Blueshirts and so on actually exist, the Judeo-Bolshevik plot does not. What, ultimately, is their goal beyond bombing buildings and subways? How can they succeed?

In 1929, the regular BA was about 250,000 men strong, with about 100,000 serving in the reserve corps.

But how many of those are loyal to the state and the revolution? The fact that they've stayed and haven't deserted or attempted a coup speaks volumes.

Discharges were more common amongst the officer class, and the exodus of military leadership preluded the formation of a new officer corps “drawn from the ranks” on the basis of aptitude starting in January 1930.

A new officer class that is loyal to the government and left-wing politics.

At the 1934 election, however, the USF lost their plurality to Mosley’s Party of Labour–Unionist Action, which took over 42 per-cent of the vote

What did the PLUA promise that the CPGB couldn't deliver on? What's behind this sudden victory?

It went hardly noticed that he did not, crucially, roll back the measures implemented by Chairman Horner the previous year.

Of course anybody who speaks out against Mosley at this moment is probably branded a fascist sympathizer.

Tyranny triumphs when good men say nothing.

1: The Fascist targeting of Pollitt is partly inspired by a bizarre episode from OTL. In 1924, five members of the British Fascisti were arrested for forcibly removing Pollitt from a train bound for an event in Liverpool, where he was due to address a gathering of the National Minority Movement. The group explained to police that they had attempted to bundle him onto another train so that he might enjoy a weekend break, even going so far as to give him £5 spending money for his trouble.

What came of this? Were they tried and found guilty?

 

[El Pip]

CW has recognition from Washington by the Forties there’s more scope for London’s return as a financial centre?

As the Cold War heightens in the Fifities I’m sure impetus would follow US capital and coalesce around Frankfurt as the principal European node, but as you say when things calm down again in the latter stages of the century I don’t see why London can’t retake its place.

I struggle to see it. The advantages London had (long history of stability, Sterling as a major reserve currency, pragmatic and reliable legal system, agglomeration effect of existing firms, pipeline of workers with the right skills and, crucially, attitude) are gone and aren't coming back any time soon. There is more to being a financial centre than just wanting to be one, it requires hard policy choices that tend to have a negative impact on other parts of the economy. It's why Paris never made it, despite talking about it for ages successive French governments didn't want to pay the price in terms of domestic impact. It is not a cost free decision and I struggle to see any CW government actually following through.

Without getting ahead of ourselves, we are going to see some more capital-friendly British governments in the Seventies…

I await this with due sense of dread and trepidation. Feels very much like the the light at the end of the tunnel being an oncoming train.

Would people be interested generally in some occasional revisionist chapters looking at periods we’ve already covered?

No. I've fallen into that trap myself at times and I think it better to look forward and work on new things. There are always old chapters and plot threads that current me would do differently or not at all, but in a few years time that will change again.

If you do wish to go back to those periods perhaps do it as a companion piece? The same period but from the perspective of other countries or the 'losing' side, that view can of course be completely different to what is portrayed in the main thread even to the level of disputing events and timelines.

 

[DensleyBlair]

I struggle to see it. The advantages London had (long history of stability, Sterling as a major reserve currency, pragmatic and reliable legal system, agglomeration effect of existing firms, pipeline of workers with the right skills and, crucially, attitude) are gone and aren't coming back any time soon. There is more to being a financial centre than just wanting to be one, it requires hard policy choices that tend to have a negative impact on other parts of the economy. It's why Paris never made it, despite talking about it for ages successive French governments didn't want to pay the price in terms of domestic impact. It is not a cost free decision and I struggle to see any CW government actually following through.

I await this with due sense of dread and trepidation. Feels very much like the the light at the end of the tunnel being an oncoming train.

No. I've fallen into that trap myself at times and I think it better to look forward and work on new things. There are always old chapters and plot threads that current me would do differently or not at all, but in a few years time that will change again.

If you do wish to go back to those periods perhaps do it as a companion piece? The same period but from the perspective of other countries or the 'losing' side, that view can of course be completely different to what is portrayed in the main thread even to the level of disputing events and timelines.

A reliably sensible series of interventions, Pip, for which I thank you. On reflection I see your point entirely about the City; I fail to see at this point how any but the most ardent marketophile would want to restructure the economy along the lines needed. (Besides which, if they ever got the chance to attempt it, one senses that the havoc caused may not quite afford them the governmental staying power truly required to see it through.)

I think you’re right also on the question of revisions. I certainly have no wish to go back rewriting chapter by chapter, and as you say I think best left ground already trod disturbed no further. No doubt once this has been wrapped up at long last I am due a foray into some other climate for my next adventure anyway. I hear France is very clement this time of year. Or Italy. And the prospect of a Welsh history always looms somewhere or other…

I should say, as will be obvious from the entirely gentlemanly lack of an epilogue having appeared since January, my last couple of months have proven far busier than anticipated. (Apologies also to @TheButterflyComposer for not having been able to give the proper time so far to our other little proposed adventure – though I may be able to rustle something up for your later this week!) The ends of few long-term projects are all falling at once over the next few days so I’ve been sorting those out, but come April I will have more chance for writing here.

And if you keep badgering @99KingHigh I’m sure he will eventually give us that long-promised Nixon chapter, too…

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

A reliably sensible series of interventions, Pip, for which I thank you. On reflection I see your point entirely about the City; I fail to see at this point how any but the most ardent marketophile would want to restructure the economy along the lines needed. (Besides which, if they ever got the chance to attempt it, one senses that the havoc caused may not quite afford them the governmental staying power truly required to see it through.)

My own thinking on the issue was that the City died, but then might be revived by EuroSyn, because it's one of the best places to run the finances of the Internationale (all the other locations are within striking distance of Germany). So it'd be very different if it still is a thing, not least because it was a strange mini-corporate micronation of guilds and firms. Can't see the Commonwealth keeping that deal around. It'd just be another part of London, even if it does become a financial centre again.

(Apologies also to @TheButterflyComposer for not having been able to give the proper time so far to our other little proposed adventure – though I may be able to rustle something up for your later this week!)

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Eh...there is still a week to go. Really it should work at any time but given the content, that date would be best...

 

[DensleyBlair]

My own thinking on the issue was that the City died, but then might be revived by EuroSyn, because it's one of the best places to run the finances of the Internationale (all the other locations are within striking distance of Germany). So it'd be very different if it still is a thing, not least because it was a strange mini-corporate micronation of guilds and firms. Can't see the Commonwealth keeping that deal around. It'd just be another part of London, even if it does become a financial centre again.

Yeah I think the guilds etc will have definitely all gone at some point around 1929, and the Bank of England no doubt looks radically different as whatever Mosley’s nationalised entity would’ve become (I’m sure this will have been touched on, but I forget details).

A tussle between Paris and London for economic bragging rights across Eurosyn would be a fun sideshow in the 70s and 80s. I could well imagine the argument that because France has the political institutions in Lyon it’s only fair Britain gets the money. (No dice for Spain, Italy or Portugal of course.)

 

[El Pip]

My own thinking on the issue was that the City died, but then might be revived by EuroSyn, because it's one of the best places to run the finances of the Internationale (all the other locations are within striking distance of Germany).

Ending up like Frankfurt for the Eurozone in OTL? Important within EuroSyn but second division (or worse) outside, yes that sounds possible.

A tussle between Paris and London for economic bragging rights across Eurosyn would be a fun sideshow in the 70s and 80s. I could well imagine the argument that because France has the political institutions in Lyon it’s only fair Britain gets the money. (No dice for Spain, Italy or Portugal of course.)

That would be quite a fight because so much of the economic is political, particularly given how much Eurosyn has integrated.

A related fight would be would the British put forward London or would it go somewhere else. As they would basically be starting from scratch it is a chance to pick a different city to get the investment and attention. Edinburgh or Leeds would be the OTL non-London financial centres but the CW may have other regions they'd like to see boosted. Or they'd want to keep it close in London to 'keep an eye on it' but that seems less interesting.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Ending up like Frankfurt for the Eurozone in OTL? Important within EuroSyn but second division (or worse) outside, yes that sounds possible.

That would be quite a fight because so much of the economic is political, particularly given how much Eurosyn has integrated.

A related fight would be would the British put forward London or would it go somewhere else. As they would basically be starting from scratch it is a chance to pick a different city to get the investment and attention. Edinburgh or Leeds would be the OTL non-London financial centres but the CW may have other regions they'd like to see boosted. Or they'd want to keep it close in London to 'keep an eye on it' but that seems less interesting.

Well...depending on how the ideology works, they might want the financial centre to also be where all the unions and big worker clubs are centred, so the finances don't go capitalist on them. Which for the UK is either going to be Manchester, Birmingham or London, and for France will be Paris, because they have no other cities.

As to how 'important' said city would be...well...if it's in the UK, it would also presumably be the financial centre of that economy, which is probably the largest in Eurosyn and thus probably the largest in Europe outside Germany. Obviously, no one in the First World will do their business there, but everyone who wants to avoid Uncle Sam might. This London might become even more of a wretched hive of scum and villainy deals than OTL, and possibly also the court of arbitration for them too.