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Oh, and the Swedish controlled parts of Norway had 100% Swedish culture, and Bodø, which was Austria controlled had 70/30 Russian/Finnish?
Additonally, poor Portugal had -999 in Industrial power.
Additonally, poor Portugal had -999 in Industrial power.
Nimic said:
Well the problem is with the later-starting scenarios. Of course, 221 million is only around 2/3s of what they start with in the GC.
That's because they're in debt.
Then poor Spain too, because in another converted game they started with -7997 (!), and a few other countries had -2k and around that area... That's got to be a bitch to start with.
Nimic said:
I should think that these countries would go bankrupt pretty quickly, wiping out the debt.
Brownbeard said:
Great job, and I’m ok with everything except the Istria, Krain and Damaltia part. My reasons for objecting are two. In EU2 Krain does not have costal line, this way it would get 4 Vic costal provinces (and Istria gets only two Vic costal provinces). The second reason is that Istria borders Dalmatia in EU2, this way it wouldn’t.
Brownbeard said:
The converter only makes minorities if the culture or religion in the territory has changed. If we change the cultures in Istria and Stiermark they probably would stay croat and slovene 100%. There is another way to do it though. We can add two extra “Terra” in the “province” file and assign them the cultures in the “cultures” file. This way they would still become a minority.
Emre Yigit said:
Welcome back EY. The civilizing conditions are OR. I did it that way because some countires that are high on infra or trade, but low on army and navy still should have a chance to get civilized.
In the later scenarios the tech levels are a bit on the high side. I had 29 uncivilized countries in my latest GC, and that's pretty fair.
istria might look weird, but i assure you it is historical. the eu2 province is rather weird.
this way, if venice survived napoleon, it would get exactly what it should if they own istria and dalmatia, or if hungary is only vassalised to austria, and ustria holds istria and dalmatia, again you end up with an exact historic divide.
that border had not changed for over a millenia. in eu2 scenarios krain represents the part of croatia that held the line around HRE against OE.
plus, if istria gets converted that way pops are highly unhistoric. in the entire eu2 prov, italians make less than 10% of population. this way trieste is emphasized as well and ends up a large populated city. and it was A-H main seaport
also, austria ends up with correct national provinces.
check the historic maps and you'll see that this way it is much better. istria should contain the outlying islands(since we have as many islands as finns lakes, but none are on the map)
venice, or austria never had land connection between istria and dalmatia.
i haven't figured out how cultures work exactly in the converter. i was thinking it worked like with the natives. ie. steiermark is catholic german, converter says slovene, steiermark becomes 70% south german, 30% slovene.
this way, if venice survived napoleon, it would get exactly what it should if they own istria and dalmatia, or if hungary is only vassalised to austria, and ustria holds istria and dalmatia, again you end up with an exact historic divide.
that border had not changed for over a millenia. in eu2 scenarios krain represents the part of croatia that held the line around HRE against OE.
plus, if istria gets converted that way pops are highly unhistoric. in the entire eu2 prov, italians make less than 10% of population. this way trieste is emphasized as well and ends up a large populated city. and it was A-H main seaport
also, austria ends up with correct national provinces.
check the historic maps and you'll see that this way it is much better. istria should contain the outlying islands(since we have as many islands as finns lakes, but none are on the map)
venice, or austria never had land connection between istria and dalmatia.
i haven't figured out how cultures work exactly in the converter. i was thinking it worked like with the natives. ie. steiermark is catholic german, converter says slovene, steiermark becomes 70% south german, 30% slovene.
Brownbeard said:
I wan't some more opinions on this before I make a definitive change.
By the way, the other changes are great!
On the pop matter: Look furthest down in the readme. The part with the header EXTRA. There (hopefully understandable) is how you add another minority (i.e. not a "regular" city induced minority).
Nimic said:
Both norweigian and swedish belong to the same EU2 culture (scandinavian). So if Sweden ownes territories that are Norweigian or Danish the culture in them will be swedish, and the other way around.
Nimic said:
Russia probably conquered Bodø early on and colonized it. Bodø has ugric as basic pop in EU2, I translated that to finnish. That's why.
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montyP said:
Hmmm. Oh well. I gather from reading this thread that you're OK doing different population conversions depending on scenario.... maybe for tech too?
But <gets on high horse> the populations will be skewed whatever you do. So long as EU2 UK has a higher population than EU2 China, we'll get a massively underpopulated China relative to other countries. Ditto elsewhere. The problem is as I explained a number of posts back.... the late scenarios have the UK population as being some 2/3 higher than that of China whereas in real life, China would have been 15-20X higher than that of the UK!
So if we were to take the numbers reported in my post 3 pages back (UK 22.4m, China 14.9m) and multiply the Chinese level by 15X3/2... we'd get a Chinese population of over 300m. Much more satisfactory. But the problem is that these issues are not a) limited to China (Japan, SE Asia, India too) and b) cannot realistically be addressed by the converter.Unless the converter pop identification and allocation system changes.
On the issue of choosing a different scenario and playing from there.... Well, a scenario starting in, say, 1492, will be skewed beyond recognition by 1582 and if by 1682 you're not well on the way to, and by 1782 have achieved world domination (not necessarily total conquest) you're either playing with a minor or with an exotic. What's the fun in prolonging the easeful play into the Victoria time frame? Therefore, as I see it, there isn't much point in starting before 1700. Guess that's what I'll have to do next.
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here's what i was going for:
notice that i have marked how i think provinces should be interpreted and where the cities in victoria are.
this splits A-H into austrian and hungarian part correctly. in istria and dalmatia austria replaced venice once the french got kicked out. if venice survives, it gets correct provinces, just like it should according to peace treaty of 1699.
i split the military border in half between krain and croatia.
notice that ogulin and karlovac are not coastal cities, only senj is and it was croatias main seaport, since hungary got rijeka by cheating after the croatian-hungarian deal. apart from that, that entire coastline is dominated by mt. velebit, which is barren rock ever since venetians devastated it by chopping down every single tree to build venice. after that they never had interest in the mainland, since nothing was there on the coastal side of velebit.
notice that i have marked how i think provinces should be interpreted and where the cities in victoria are.
this splits A-H into austrian and hungarian part correctly. in istria and dalmatia austria replaced venice once the french got kicked out. if venice survives, it gets correct provinces, just like it should according to peace treaty of 1699.
i split the military border in half between krain and croatia.
notice that ogulin and karlovac are not coastal cities, only senj is and it was croatias main seaport, since hungary got rijeka by cheating after the croatian-hungarian deal. apart from that, that entire coastline is dominated by mt. velebit, which is barren rock ever since venetians devastated it by chopping down every single tree to build venice. after that they never had interest in the mainland, since nothing was there on the coastal side of velebit.
Question...for the little .eug files which go with savegames, what do we need to do? Copy another one and rename it? Is one even necessary?
Etienne Martel said:
The config files aren't necessary for conversion, I believe. Essentially the conversion creates a scenario rather than a save- and these don't have config files.
good point abot populations...Emre Yigit said:But <gets on high horse> the populations will be skewed whatever you do. So long as EU2 UK has a higher population than EU2 China, we'll get a massively underpopulated China relative to other countries. Ditto elsewhere. The problem is as I explained a number of posts back.... the late scenarios have the UK population as being some 2/3 higher than that of China whereas in real life, China would have been 15-20X higher than that of the UK!
Unless the converter pop identification and allocation system changes.
On the issue of choosing a different scenario and playing from there.... Well, a scenario starting in, say, 1492, will be skewed beyond recognition by 1582 and if by 1682 you're not well on the way to, and by 1782 have achieved world domination (not necessarily total conquest) you're either playing with a minor or with an exotic. What's the fun in prolonging the easeful play into the Victoria time frame? Therefore, as I see it, there isn't much point in starting before 1700. Guess that's what I'll have to do next.
about world conquest, all I'm going to say is that some people try to play more or less historically in EU2 and don't conquer everything in sight.
Yakman said:
Well my current EU2 game as England where I intended on taking as much territory as possible whilst remaining highly developed for conversion to Victoria doesn't seem to be heading towards too easy a Victoria game. France is a superpower in its own right even after I stripped her of most of her colonies.... She diplo-annexed Austria and Hungary, and has contiguous territory as far as Bulgaria, as well as Cyprus, Albania and the heel of Italy. Poland was for a while basically everything in between France and Moscow, but got into BB-wars with Sweden and Russia.
Went and converted an Austria 1819 game. Here's the results;
China: 413 million without POP conversion, 181 million with. I think an improvement as China's maringally smaller and probably rather more war-torn than historically.
Austria, with all of Italy and Rumania plus much of Germany and various colonies: 88.6 million without POP conversion, an astonishing 243.2 million with. Something like 100 million of that was Italian- some of the RGOs had been automatically expanded to size four in Piedmonte. I'll note that all my colonies were around half South German except for those in India, so I could have granted statehood if they weren't already states. For repressive (Con Mon) Austria I had two minor reforms. Managed to get my artillery, and a reasonable fleet. Perhaps armies are still underconverted though- my 27 divisions looked tiny in my huge empire.
Spain, with Portugal, without Catalonia, with large American Empire: 52.5 million to 79.7 million. This is good.
France with minor empire: 37.5 million to 66.7 million. I think I prefer the smaller figure.
Japan: 27.5 million to a whopping 104.7 million. God only knows what happened here.
Korea: 24 million to 8.2 million. They'd been smashed to bits by China so this is probably right.
Civilised Persia: 21.7 million to 52 million. Probably due to good management in EU2. Civilised Tukolor (go figure) was equally boosted.
Ottoman without Western Turkey or anything in Europe. 12.3 million to 51 million. Perhaps something in the middle would have been better.
Hanover, biggest German state: 9.5 million to 41 million. Good I think.
Sokoto: 9.4 million to 41.5 million. I think it was better before.
USA, mostly native provinces that rebelled: 7.3 million to 3.2 million. This is probably my biggest beef. The bulk of those 3.2 million were Cherokee Indians.
Figures for British India (Delhi? Sorry, I guess VIP should be in another folder), the UK, Bastar and various minors were largely unchanged, and most of the others were within a reasonable range of their original size.
Overall; coming along nicely. I think you need to add something to the POP converter for colonies and the new world. For a start, the engine ought to convert 75% of natives in the USA into Yankee or Dixie, depending on where they are. Colonial populations outside of North America also ought to be less European- and states not on the home continent ought not to be granted statehood initially. I think most populations- particularly European populations- are overpowered in the converter. Perhaps take it down a notch or two.... got a brainwave here which will go on it's own so it's not missed.
Is it possible to make inventions fire before the scenario starts? A pain not being able to build lumber factories even though I'm the most advanced country in the world. Also the initial stockpiles seem a bit large- the AI agrees, the world market gets flooded with several products instantly.
China: 413 million without POP conversion, 181 million with. I think an improvement as China's maringally smaller and probably rather more war-torn than historically.
Austria, with all of Italy and Rumania plus much of Germany and various colonies: 88.6 million without POP conversion, an astonishing 243.2 million with. Something like 100 million of that was Italian- some of the RGOs had been automatically expanded to size four in Piedmonte. I'll note that all my colonies were around half South German except for those in India, so I could have granted statehood if they weren't already states. For repressive (Con Mon) Austria I had two minor reforms. Managed to get my artillery, and a reasonable fleet. Perhaps armies are still underconverted though- my 27 divisions looked tiny in my huge empire.
Spain, with Portugal, without Catalonia, with large American Empire: 52.5 million to 79.7 million. This is good.
France with minor empire: 37.5 million to 66.7 million. I think I prefer the smaller figure.
Japan: 27.5 million to a whopping 104.7 million. God only knows what happened here.
Korea: 24 million to 8.2 million. They'd been smashed to bits by China so this is probably right.
Civilised Persia: 21.7 million to 52 million. Probably due to good management in EU2. Civilised Tukolor (go figure) was equally boosted.
Ottoman without Western Turkey or anything in Europe. 12.3 million to 51 million. Perhaps something in the middle would have been better.
Hanover, biggest German state: 9.5 million to 41 million. Good I think.
Sokoto: 9.4 million to 41.5 million. I think it was better before.
USA, mostly native provinces that rebelled: 7.3 million to 3.2 million. This is probably my biggest beef. The bulk of those 3.2 million were Cherokee Indians.
Figures for British India (Delhi? Sorry, I guess VIP should be in another folder), the UK, Bastar and various minors were largely unchanged, and most of the others were within a reasonable range of their original size.
Overall; coming along nicely. I think you need to add something to the POP converter for colonies and the new world. For a start, the engine ought to convert 75% of natives in the USA into Yankee or Dixie, depending on where they are. Colonial populations outside of North America also ought to be less European- and states not on the home continent ought not to be granted statehood initially. I think most populations- particularly European populations- are overpowered in the converter. Perhaps take it down a notch or two.... got a brainwave here which will go on it's own so it's not missed.
Is it possible to make inventions fire before the scenario starts? A pain not being able to build lumber factories even though I'm the most advanced country in the world. Also the initial stockpiles seem a bit large- the AI agrees, the world market gets flooded with several products instantly.
Brainwave for POP converter: why not make the system come up with an average of the converted figure and the Victoria GC total? This would at least partially solve all the big problems with extreme figures.