The +2 missionary bonus can really come in handy, esp. if you are Spain - get those Aztecs converted in a hurry. Plus, it goes away after a while.
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But as Spain I would presume you've already picked the religious idea group anyway, right?
I always take it, for the +2 Missionaries and the Missionary Strength increase. I will be annexing the entirety of the Americas, which is nearly 50 provinces, and gives me ~ 250 PI with which I will lock up the Curia for the rest of the game, and the missionaries and strength are nice for that. And as I'll be staying Catholic, I'm going to get some Protestant/Reformed provinces to convert, and I'll probably end up with a few Heathen religions to convert as well.
It's usual for me to have all 7 controlled Cardinals for most of the game, and that provides -7% tech reduction which overcomes the tech penalty from Embrace. Yes there's the Idea cost too, but thus far I've not found it to be a significant problem. It's only +20 points per Idea in and of itself, and usually I get an Idea cost reduction somewhere along the way, though I can't now remember what from.
I haven't so far taken Religious Ideas. It feels like too much opportunity cost. What I really would like is the 100% BROT at the end, but the rest of it I can take or leave. My strong focus on diplomatic strategy is normally effective enough that I'm not worrying about coalitions too much for most of the game.
Of course I may well think differently once 1.4/CoP is out and I can't annex all those Americas nations.
What idea groups do you pick? In my France game so far I took:
1. Diplomatic Ideas
2. Quantity Ideas
3. Expansion Ideas (solely for the +relations and +reputation)
4. I have yet to choose, but I tend towards Innovation... maybe I should have picked that first?
1. Diplomatic Ideas
2. Quantity Ideas
3. Expansion Ideas (solely for the +relations and +reputation)
4. I have yet to choose, but I tend towards Innovation... maybe I should have picked that first?
Historically, the church didn't make concessions to reformers. They did discuss that, but at the Council of Trent, they very deliberately defined Catholic dogma in stark opposition to Protestantism - a victory for conservatives. What they did do that pleased reformers in the church was to clean up a lot of the corruption - simony, absenteeism, and indulgences. If you're actually interested in it, it's simulated in detail in my mod. If you're not, don't worry - but historically, yes, the counter reformation was a movement towards a more conservative church.
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Thanks! But that's fantastic... that way I can NOT counter-reform for both gamey AND idealistic reasons ^^ Screw the Council of Trent, the Church is fine the way it was
I fully approve of the Diplomatic + Expansion combination.
Defensive is very good for its +25% morale bonus. But as you're France and you're presumably spamming legions with your Quantity, maybe you're finding you're not in danger of losing battles anyway. I tend to take Defensive early, like second idea group.
I'm told Innovative has some great events. The actual Ideas seem.. OK. Army Tradition decay reduction is definitely great. Prestige Decay is quite good too. Tech Cost of course. The rest, a bit meh, especially the bonus.
Do you plan to be doing much colonisation? You could consider Exploration for the colonists and to be able to reveal TI (which is also a way to keep nearly permanently at 100 Prestige.) Or Trade if you want to start making a big push in that area. Both of those choices assume you're doing OK for Dip Points, as it'd be a third Dip idea group.
If you're going to be doing a lot of conquest, Religious is worth considering for the 100% BROT alone. Then, as you're not taking Counter-Ref, maybe you'll like the extra missionaries and strength (especially if you're still Catholic and want to go annex all the Americas to get all the PI.)
While we're talking about religion, I was wondering if I was just unlucky or my timing was off.
In a recent Sweden game, over half my provinces had turned protestant. I decided that I would change as well (partly to improve relations with Norway). Now, usually, I stay catholic, wait a dozen years or so and then quietly convert the heretics back into the fold.
I thought to do the same thing here. Turn protestant, wait two decades and then convert the catholic provinces. It didn't work out that way. I had one zealot after another leading revolts all over Sweden. Is that normal, or did I do something stupid?
In a recent Sweden game, over half my provinces had turned protestant. I decided that I would change as well (partly to improve relations with Norway). Now, usually, I stay catholic, wait a dozen years or so and then quietly convert the heretics back into the fold.
I thought to do the same thing here. Turn protestant, wait two decades and then convert the catholic provinces. It didn't work out that way. I had one zealot after another leading revolts all over Sweden. Is that normal, or did I do something stupid?
Okay, I'm glad Expansion wasn't a mistake then! It was bad timing though, because I have yet to choose my first admin idea group (and have already completed the whole national idea tree!) and therefore had to waste loads of AMP on stab, cores and buildings, because I couldnt invest in ideas and had to wait for tech to cool off.
Defensive did look appealing, but at the start of the game I was often up against superior numbers... now my army is twice the size of the next strongest nation, so I guess I could go for Defensive...
With innovative I really like the bonus... Advisors are by far my highest cost factor, so taking 25% off that seems a great boost.
I don't plan to colonize really... I plan to steal instead. Castille and Portugal have a number of colonies in south and north america. I'm currently at war with castille and I will take all the colonies (cities already)... I feel the exploration group is a waste somehow, if I can let others do the dirty work.
If I dont counter-reform I might end up needing the religious group... the bonus is great indeed! Thanks! For the curia I don't need it though, I've had 5-6 cardinals in the curia for the last 50 years or so and 4 out of 5 of the new cardinals are generally on my side to, that is without any conversion boni as so far the only province I had to convert was Koblenz.
Hmmm... hang on... does converting a province give you +5 PI once off or PER YEAR?
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If the Religious idea group was literally seven ideas' worth of monthly events telling me that I am an idiot plus the 100% BROT completion bonus, I'd probably still take it almost every game. What the heck are you taking instead? :V
Optimisim is meh? Ludicrous; it's by far one of the best ideas in the game, and one of the few ways you can decrease WE while at war.
Anyway, how the hell does the HRE modifierwhen feeding vassals? Sometimes they just gobble up just fine, sometimes I'm stuck there with that -1000 for no reason I can percieve.
Anyway, how the hell does the HRE modifierwhen feeding vassals? Sometimes they just gobble up just fine, sometimes I'm stuck there with that -1000 for no reason I can percieve.
-1000 is from Ineligible, which means your ruler is female, you're a Republic or you're not in the Christian religion group.
You appear to be playing a game where WE actually makes a difference. I can't remember the last time I even needed to use the Reduce WE button, let alone need an Idea to reduce it. War exhaustion and how it's rarely an issue.
HRE provinces can only be sold to a nation that has a core on them.
I've sold non-cores to them, which is the reason I was shaky with that idea. Does it also account for claims as well?
That's quite a recommendation
Well I admit I've not properly played past 1750. And perhaps I'm not conquering as much as you are. But no, I've never seen it as necessary.
I am almost OCD about my diplomatic work to keep coalitions at bay, to the point where I consider it a failure if I get one little OPM join a coalition. It's part of my enjoyment to work on diplomacy such that they don't form, or when it can't be avoided they then de-form a day after five years. Regardless of whether the resulting coalition would actually pose any threat or even any inconvenience.
The only times I've had difficulties from coalitions have been in the first hundred years, which are times when I'd never consider taking Religious (nor probably could have filled it.)
I take all the Diplomatic groups except Naval; Defensive and sometimes Offensive or Quality; Administrative sometimes, Innovative a couple of times.
I do keep thinking about taking Religious, but then it so far has never seemed to need prioritisation, because I've always been on top of the diplomatic situation, rotating conflicts between Europe and Asia and Africa, and not taking a huge amount of territory myself but having 10-20 subject nations, so I'm not hit with the huge nation-size multiplier on AE.
And as that's going away in 1.4, it seems to be even less important.
I've also made quite good use of the (probably buggy) reducing-AE tactic of annexing African land and then Release as Vassal, to get a flat -2 AE per province, to the world; not modified by distance. (I have not used the super exploit of losing wars to OPMs!)
But I've not done nearly as many scenarios, nor probably as many difficult ones, as yourself, so it's quite possible I'll change my mind later as I start to do so
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That's quite a recommendation
Well I admit I've not properly played past 1750. And perhaps I'm not conquering as much as you are. But no, I've never seen it as necessary.
I am almost OCD about my diplomatic work to keep coalitions at bay, to the point where I consider it a failure if I get one little OPM join a coalition. It's part of my enjoyment to work on diplomacy such that they don't form or de-form a day after five years, regardless of whether the resulting coalition would actually pose any threat or even any inconvenience.
The only times I've had difficulties from coalitions have been in the first hundred years, which are times when I'd never consider taking Religious (nor probably could have filled it.)
I take all the Diplomatic groups except Naval, Defensive, and sometimes Offensive or Quality, Administrative sometimes, Innovative a couple of times.
I do keep thinking about taking Religious, but then it so far has never seemed to need prioritisation, because I've always been on top of the diplomatic situation, rotating conflicts between Europe and Asia and Africa, and not taking a huge amount of territory myself but having 10-20 subject nations, so I'm not hit with the huge nation-size multiplier on AE.
And as that's going away in 1.4, it seems to be even less important.
But I've not done nearly as many scenarios, nor probably as many difficult ones, as yourself, so it's quite possible I'll change my mind later as I start to do so
However effective you are at managing diplomacy, +BROT is a multiplier on that. If you can manage X conquest given AE decay rate Y without incurring coalitions, you can do X*Z conquest given a multiplier Z on Y. I tend to take Religious as my third idea group so the BROT bonus coincides with reaching high double digit provinces, to counter the increased AE. Just make sure you enact some decisions that give -Heretic Tolerance to counterbalance that weird "bonus."
I'm playing as Prussia and I'm about to leave the HRE. I have HRE minors as vassals. Will I lose them (or something similar) when I leave the HRE, and if not then, when the Emporer revokes the privilegia?