• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.
brown water navy, maybe only effective in training marines or engineers, but still a part which could be made useful for a mountain region nation.
Now Switzerlands brown water navy is a part of their army but that doesn't mean that you send a assault-carbine maker at making boats or some such...

/Zorbeltuss


I see the point, but it looks like it would be very time-consuming - the teams would have to be activated by a tech or an event so it means an event for EVERY SINGLE country...

Of course there are some better examples than other - many landlocked states had some river vessels - Czechoslovakia or Hungary are good examples, many countries with full access to the sea also maintained such forces - Soviet Union, Estonia (lakes), Poland etc.

It is also true that in numerous cases river shipyards built some vessels for the 'true' navy or simply trained specialists or prepared designs or machinery.
Some of those ships were pretty large - especially those from the Soviet river shipyards.

It is even more interesting with naval doctrines because many 'new' countries of Central-Eastern Europe had people serving in real fleets - the best example is Horthy, the commander-in-chief of the A-H Navy after all.

How to deal with it ?

Personally I don't believe there should be some general rule - each country is a different example. Perhaps as a part of the additional teams - but only if supported with much, much convincing information.
Horthy is here already, but he is exceptional, yet maybe there were some admirals or other higher ranking officers in landlocked countries ?

With shipyards it is more tricky, but again there could be some exceptional cases.

Personally I would leave that to techteam takeover, though it would be nice if captured techteams would lose some skill after they are 'stolen'.

A general rule maybe ?
 
You don't get it, either. I don't deny the existance of Polish research on radars or rockets. That's what you don't get. I don't argue against Polish science or developement. I argue against the fact that Poland is getting 5 tech teams, being a minor/medium sized country, and the fact it lasts for about four weeks after the DoW. Had there been any time of GIE in HoI 2, I might think differently now. But if we give every Poland-Sized country 5 tech teams we won't be done as soon as we'd like. I could fairly easily add 5 or maybe more tech teams to Argentina being born there myself, but it's just a matter of knowing what role did that country play during ww2. Poland spent most of ww2 under German occupation, and even if Polish soldiers, ships and planes fought in different theaters alongside allied forces, I doubt they conducted any sort of scientific research (The exception being codebreakers working in France or Britain).

Right, but HoI2 is all about What If. What if France and Britain attacked right after the Germany DoW and Poland survived? Poland is a power about as strong as Nationalist China, and, while it doesn't have NatChi's potential to become a superpower, it's still a fairly strong country that can take on anything other then the majors.
 
Sorry. I will add Turkey to the list above immediately. But what is also important - are you going to help us with it? Which means - are you going to post here suggestions on 2-3 new teams for Turkey?


Proudly,and happily i will:) Just tell me how many teams do you need, and what kind? , i may add a aeroplane company for avitational research, and Railway company for Industrial and Army purposes. etc.

As I said, in that time, especially '41 Turkey has the best and the largest(I assume about 1 million) army around Balkans, and The Middle-east. Every possible man who suits, were taken into the army, and even there was huge shortages araound the country in order to feed the Army, it was made possible. So if you can make it possible, by means of TT's and IC it will be very appropriate, and historically accurate.
 
Right, but HoI2 is all about What If. What if France and Britain attacked right after the Germany DoW and Poland survived? Poland is a power about as strong as Nationalist China, and, while it doesn't have NatChi's potential to become a superpower, it's still a fairly strong country that can take on anything other then the majors.

I wouldn't give Nat China 5 teams, either. 5 teams is a lot. I'd only give that number of TTs to Germany, the UK, the Soviets and the USA. 4 for the Japs, Italians and French, and the rest can manage with up to 3 new teams, imo. Countries like NatChina lack skill, but not variety on their tech teams, in my opinion.

//Edit, btw, whampoa academy is already in, as "Huangpu Military Academy", lvl 1.
 
I wouldn't give Nat China 5 teams, either. 5 teams is a lot. I'd only give that number of TTs to Germany, the UK, the Soviets and the USA. 4 for the Japs, Italians and French, and the rest can manage with up to 3 new teams, imo. Countries like NatChina lack skill, but not variety on their tech teams, in my opinion.

//Edit, btw, whampoa academy is already in, as "Huangpu Military Academy", lvl 1.

I'm not advocating giving NatChi 5 teams. I want reunited China with enough teams to be a superpower. A superpower (let's be honest, China reunited with good sliders and ministers can get around 200 IC) that has teams with skill 1 and 2 and no theoretical (rocketry, nuclear, etc) skills makes about as much sense as Britain neglecting its navy.

Besides, Poland is a regional power. Given its history, it should have ridiculously good Cryptography teams (they cracked the Enigma) as well as an excellent nuclear team (Teller-ULAM design for the fusion bomb).
 
I'm not advocating giving NatChi 5 teams. I want reunited China with enough teams to be a superpower. A superpower (let's be honest, China reunited with good sliders and ministers can get around 200 IC) that has teams with skill 1 and 2 and no theoretical (rocketry, nuclear, etc) skills makes about as much sense as Britain neglecting its navy.

Besides, Poland is a regional power. Given its history, it should have ridiculously good Cryptography teams (they cracked the Enigma) as well as an excellent nuclear team (Teller-ULAM design for the fusion bomb).

China gets a rocketry team later on, and Poland has Ulam till '38 (He travelled to the USA), and has Rejewski till '39 (Poland got invaded and he moved to France) and Banach till '45. Rejewski could have a longer 'lifespan', which would mean that, in the event Poland somehow manages to resist the German invasion, he doesn't need to flee to France. But the teams are there, always been there, actually.
 
The second proposal is quite interesting as modding projects are concerned, but right now preparing for AoD is the main concern.

So let us discuss the first instead


Some changes could be made but it should still be simple - your second proposal in my opinion isn't easy to implement and ITA shouldn' t receive special rules for researching or upgrading.

I guess it could be dealt with with sliders - for central planning/open market and standing/conscripted army which confer sufficient penalties to the time it takes to rearm a unit.

Without special rules the sliders in the inc should be
professional_army = 0
This means that the production time and cost is +45%. I'm wondering if it is enough because, for example, in my opinion that cost and time should be much more for Italy.

Please find below my proposal

multi_role = { buildtime = 60 cost = 2.0000 }
interceptor = { buildtime = 56 cost = 2.0000 }
strategic_bomber = { buildtime = 84 cost = 2.0000 }
tactical_bomber = { buildtime = 64 cost = 2.0000 }
naval_bomber = { buildtime = 72 cost = 2.0000 }
cas = { buildtime = 72 cost = 2.0000 }
transport_plane = { buildtime = 60 cost = 2.0000 }

happy to hear your thoughts
 
Last edited:
@great_chairman


Besides, Poland is a regional power. Given its history, it should have ridiculously good Cryptography teams (they cracked the Enigma) as well as an excellent nuclear team (Teller-ULAM design for the fusion bomb).

There is Rajewski so no problem with the first one.

The second is a bit tricky.
Theory was always good and very good in Poland
- it started with Maria Curie-Słodowska after all and she had some impact in liberated Poland - and even without Ulam there was Leopold Infeld ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_Infeld) to take his place anyway.

Nuclear engineering is a problem - what is it for actually ?, is it for theoretical and semi-practical projects or should apply only if the country actually builds a nuclear reactor ?

Both actually happened with reactor Ewa ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewa_reactor) built in 1958, but based on Soviet technology.
On the other hand it is questionable if Poland could build it on is own, but also cannot be dismissed as a fantasy because it build it only when the Soviets allowed it so could happen earlier if say French assistance was provided.
Everything with the post-war period is a problem - it was a different country and different rules applied, some technology branches were established possibly quicker than it would be possible in independent Poland, but some were almost completely stopped in their development...

It could all be limited to the question of resources a project requires - nuclear reactor takes - 40 IC if I remember correctly which is in general sufficient to make it really, really hard to build.
There was the theory - Ulam, Infeld or scientists from the Politechnika Warszawska so there were people to work on it. If there are resources I say why not ?

After all it is one of much, much less useful projects and it will be a sacrifice to research nuclear technology - 1/2 or 1/3 of techteam slots at a time - it is a personal choice in my opinion. That is why I made Ulam 'immortal' but reduced his skill by one. It is reasonable to further reduce his skill (even to 4, but that would be rather too harsh), but it will take some time to develop the technology so he (representing other scientists) could learn.




About the rest. I proposed the teams I thought are both important enough and specialised enough, because what would be dropped from those:

a radar team considering that POL had testing prototype in 1939 and currently has no specialised electronics team ?

a chemistry team considering that this branch of industry was especially modern, there were numerous inventions made in POL and even the bloody president Moscicki was a famous chemist ?

a rocketry/jet technology team with POL testing both rocket artillery before the war, building a jet engine in early 1930s and working on electronic components and liquid fuel for tactical rockets very few nations in the world even though about or finally the fact the scientists analysed captured V1 and V2 rockets and send the models and their research to britain - and did that as a part of the underground (operations Most I - III) ?

or perhaps a fighter doctrine team - how ridiculous is that it has none right now ?


The fifth (GOP), someone should NOTICE is a disadvantage because it REPLACES better team (COP) for the first year for the sake of realism and stays because both pre-war and post-war Poland in virtually any setup would use industry from Upper Silesia, though because the techtree is constructed the way it is it will almost never be used after 1937.
YET I personally cannot stand that something which wasn't there at all appears as a starting team so I proposed that.



If Poland doesn't deserve them because it 'ceases to exist after four weeks' what can be said about Denmark ? Belgium ? Holland ? or almightly France ?
How many teams should have one-slot Denmark considering the time for which were defending ? 00.05 of a team ?

Three last have colonies so they survive, but I can bet my wages that their scientists made lesser impact than Polish scientists in Britain or in the underground ( there were over a thousand Polish engineers and scientists in the UK in 1941 alone).

Besides even with 5 new teams it will give Poland 18 overall for a three tech slot country (starting with 37 IC if I am not wrong, but that is little effort to change it) which can be compared with other circa 40 IC nations.

And of course after all this there is the final argument - do your own research ! if you want something.
After all it is not only about what is fair and right, but also who is better at selling his/her arguments and ideas, who makes more convincing argumentation and how much effort it takes to implement something.

IN my case it takes seconds and I think I proposed balanced, reasonable and well researched ideas if someone is going to challenge that I am ready to confront it, but I feel free to ignore the rest because it is not my problem if someone feels bad if Poland gets a radar techteam.

Damn - I really have other things to do, though I must admitt this thread caan become a source of knowledge about other countries so I don't mind reading it.












Without special rules the sliders in the inc should be
professional_army = 0
This means that the production time and cost is +45%. I'm wondering if it is enough because, for example, in my opinion that cost and time should be much more for Italy.

Please find below my proposal

multi_role = { buildtime = 60 cost = 2.0000 }
interceptor = { buildtime = 56 cost = 2.0000 }
strategic_bomber = { buildtime = 84 cost = 2.0000 }
tactical_bomber = { buildtime = 64 cost = 2.0000 }
naval_bomber = { buildtime = 72 cost = 2.0000 }
cas = { buildtime = 72 cost = 2.0000 }
transport_plane = { buildtime = 60 cost = 2.0000 }

happy to hear your thoughts


Looks good. If you manage to convince the developers it is a good idea I see it as relatively easy to implement.

It could be discussed in a separate thread because it is not about TTs anymore.
 
Those I guess:

2713;GOP;GOP;3;1936;1970;mechanics;technical_efficiency;industrial_engineering;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2714;Zaklady Azotowe w Tarnowie;ZakladyAzotowe;5;1930;1970;industrial_engineering;chemistry;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2715;PIT;PIT;4;1930;1970;mechanics;electronics;management;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2716;TKDN;Groszkowski;3;1930;1970;rocketry;mechanics;chemistry;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2717;Dowództwo Broni Pancernych;DowództwoBroni;3;1930;1970;combined_arms_focus;small_unit_tactics;training;technical_efficiency;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2718;Centrum Wyszkolenia Piechoty;CentrumWyszkolenia;5;1930;1970;individual_courage;small_unit_tactics;infantry_focus;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
2719;CWOL w Deblinie;CWOLwDeblinie;5;1930;1970;fighter_tactics;piloting;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

Having just one land doctrine team will be painful, but other teams are more important.


Great. Thank you. Poland is thus finished for me.

And we can move to other countries. We still have many of them untouched.

Well, this is what I got.

Name: Universidad Complutense de Madrid.

Country: SPR/SPA (Both countries had or would have it working once they won)

Skill: 5 (It was considered the rival of the University of Berlin as the best in Europe and probably the world in 1936, but after the SCW well, I guess it wasn't all that good anymore)

Start Date: 1939 (It was founded in 1293, but I guess it didn't have too many students during the Civil War)

End Date: 1970

Research Fields: Mathematics, Management, Chemistry, Electronics. (Could add another field, but it would make it a rather imbalanced TT)

Image:




I seriously doubt they need anything else. They have at least a team for everything, and more than one for some stuff. The exception is Nuclear Engineering (But Spain, as a medium power, shouldn't go nuclear with ease after all) and Rocketry (The Nationalists shot the guy who made the first Spanish turbojet engine, so they screwed themselves), and neither is essential.

Opinions, anyone?

It seems ok to me. Just the name is probably too long to be showed properly in the game.

Anyone who wants to add any new teams to Spain?

anyways, some land doctrine teams for reunited Chinas.

CHC:
People's Liberation Army
Skill 6 (not great, but fought on near-equal footing against Omar Bradley Skill 7 for USA)
Specialties: Individual Courage, Small Unit Tactics, Centralized Execution, Infantry Focus (Infiltration Assault team, as befitting an army that started as guerrillas, conducted the Long March, and fought the UN forces in Korea essentially as a complete light infantry army)
Startdate: 1943 (only available if 'Chinese Reunification - Communists' has fired, so if you reunite China in '45, you get them in '45, but if you reunite China in '42, you still won't have them until '43)
Enddate: 1970

CHI:
Whampoa Military Academy:
Skill 6 (balanced with PLA for CHC)
Specialties: Combined Arms Focus, Large Unit Tactics, Centralized Execution, Individual Courage (Human Wave team, which is excellently suited for China's strategic situation)
Startdate: 1943 (same reasoning as above, except for 'Chinese Reunification - Nationalists')
Enddate: 1970

Nice. But the teams are WAY TOO STRONG. Also, as Athe pointed out, the second team is already in, with skill 1 :D I would implement the first team with skill lowered to 4. I am no proponent of any event-triggered tech teams because we need to keep the final code simple and short to be easily tested in a very short period of time. I recommend setting start date of the team to 1949 which is the year of historical reunification.

What do you think?

BTW, I shall add your nick to Chinas in the list on page 2 of this thread, ok?

Proudly,and happily i will:) Just tell me how many teams do you need, and what kind? , i may add a aeroplane company for avitational research, and Railway company for Industrial and Army purposes. etc.

As I said, in that time, especially '41 Turkey has the best and the largest(I assume about 1 million) army around Balkans, and The Middle-east. Every possible man who suits, were taken into the army, and even there was huge shortages araound the country in order to feed the Army, it was made possible. So if you can make it possible, by means of TT's and IC it will be very appropriate, and historically accurate.

Great! Please, suggest 2-3 (maximum 3!) teams for Turkey. Names, pictures in 96x96 pixels, start dates, end dates, links or references on your sources and a short briefing why you have chosen those particular teams. That is all. Don't make the teams too strong, the average skill of HoI2 Turkish teams is a good point for orientation ;) Thank you very much!

I wouldn't give Nat China 5 teams, either. 5 teams is a lot. I'd only give that number of TTs to Germany, the UK, the Soviets and the USA. 4 for the Japs, Italians and French, and the rest can manage with up to 3 new teams, imo. Countries like NatChina lack skill, but not variety on their tech teams, in my opinion.

A good direction of thought, IMO.

Please find below my proposal

multi_role = { buildtime = 60 cost = 2.0000 }
interceptor = { buildtime = 56 cost = 2.0000 }
strategic_bomber = { buildtime = 84 cost = 2.0000 }
tactical_bomber = { buildtime = 64 cost = 2.0000 }
naval_bomber = { buildtime = 72 cost = 2.0000 }
cas = { buildtime = 72 cost = 2.0000 }
transport_plane = { buildtime = 60 cost = 2.0000 }

happy to hear your thoughts

Proposals like this has NO CHANCE, I repeat NO CHANCE to get in the game. Are you aware of this? I understand your enthusiasm but let me repeat some facts:
1. The final tech team pack should be simple and easy to copy in the game.
2. Nobody is going to carry out any major testing so we should not disrupt the balance of gameplay.
3. Lennartos from the AoD team made it clear:

"In the end we should have a zip with images that are used and a zip with the collection of the teams added (so we can copy paste into the team files), or do that part for me, and send new team files."

I guess we have 1 month to create a final product - a zip file to copy/paste. So I think a certain level of cooperation is NEEDED.



Hereby I present my suggestions of new Czechoslovak tech teams:

Here you can see CZE tech teams from HoI2 + 4 new teams. The last 4 are my suggestions.

CZEteams.jpg



Baťa

One of the largest CZE corporations. The founder, Tomáš Baťa, introduced revolutionary Fordist management methods and exercised a vast influence over the government. Baťa was primarily a producer of shoes and during the war they produced all kinds of military equipment for infantry.

Start date: 1930 (default)
End date: 1970 (default)

Image:


Link:

Baťa at wiki


Tatra

The vehicle manufacturer. Tatra is the third oldest car maker in the world after Daimler Mercedes-Benz and Peugeot.

Start date: 1930 (default)
End date: 1970 (default)

Image:


Link:
Tatra company at wiki


Josef František

A Czechoslovak fighter pilot. The number one Allied ace in the battle of Britain. Died in 1940.

Start date: 1930 (default)
End date: 1940 (death)

Image:


Link:
Josef František at wiki


Karel Kuttelwascher


Another fighter ace and after war, a flying instructor. He should replace Josef František in 1940 because Czechoslovakia has no air doctrine team after 1939 in vanilla HoI2.

Start date: 1941 (replaces Josef František)
End date: 1959 (death)

Image:


Link:
Karel Kuttelwascher at wiki



What do you think guys?
 
Last edited:
I understand your enthusiasm .

It's not a matter of enthusiasm it's a matter of realism-historical accuracy: proper tech teams and proper inc file will make it.


EDIT

I think it would be better increasing the build time like in the following

multi_role = { buildtime = 90 cost = 2.0000 }
interceptor = { buildtime = 84 cost = 2.0000 }
strategic_bomber = { buildtime = 126 cost = 2.0000 }
tactical_bomber = { buildtime = 96 cost = 2.0000 }
naval_bomber = { buildtime = 108 cost = 2.0000 }
cas = { buildtime = 108 cost = 2.0000 }
transport_plane = { buildtime = 90 cost = 2.0000 }
 
Last edited:
A simple Idea for most countries not already possessing such a team would be to add the nations primary university as a tech team. Most have easily accessible seals for pictures. Specialites would be:

Chemistry, Nuclear Physics, Mathematics, Electronics and Nuclear Engineering (only for those that actually had such a department)

Considering the theoretical approach to these subjects I don't think the skill of even world class universities should exceed 5-6.

Another simple idea is to add noble prize winners in chemistry (Mathematics & Chemistry, possibly nuclear physics) or physics (Mathematics & Nuclear Physics, possibly nuclear engineering and/or chemistry) and Fields medal winners (mathematics, possibly management) as tech teams. The skill of these could be higher than the universities as they could be placed as leaders of dedicated pratical projects.

Finally for a company for Denmark and one for Norway representing their very large merchant marines would be a nice addition.

Specialities:
Efficiency, Naval Engineering, Seamanship, Naval Training, Centralized Execution

Skill:
Norway: 7 (forth-largest shipping nation in 1938, behind United Kingdom, USA and Japan)
Denmark: 6 (smaller shipping fleet than Norway but still significant)
 
Finally for a company for Denmark and one for Norway representing their very large merchant marines would be a nice addition.

Specialities:
Efficiency, Naval Engineering, Seamanship, Naval Training, Centralized Execution

Skill:
Norway: 7 (forth-largest shipping nation in 1938, behind United Kingdom, USA and Japan)
Denmark: 6 (smaller shipping fleet than Norway but still significant)

Both Denmark and Norway already have decent naval teams skill 6. Check the teams in HoI2 and reconsider your suggestions, please.

If there are any major corporations or scientific capacities you miss in HoI2 tech teams, post their names, pictures, start and end dates, links for sources and a brief explanation.
 
Merchant marine - some statistics

From http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/history/pac-campaign.html
"The Japanese merchant marine started the war with 6 million tons of shipping."

From http://www.trentoincina.it/mostrapost.php?id=40
The Italian merchant marine started the war (1940) with 3.3 million tons of shipping

From http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/other/merchant/hist : "When the war began, Canada had 38 ocean-going merchant vessels; by war's end, more than 400 cargo ships had been built in Canada" but no mention to the tons

From http://www.mesotheliomaweb.org/mmhistory.htm "At the beginning of the war there were 1,340 in the U.S. Merchant Marine fleet" but no mention to the tons

Please feel free to contribute
 
Last edited:
To those who already participate:

Cardus: Please make some suggestions. 5 new teams for Italy?

Cegorach: Thank you very much :) Poland is finished.

Athe: Some new teams for Spain other than the Madrid university?

LordOfBlood: Please, try to bring here some 2-3 Turkish teams!

Great_Chairman: Are you going to suggest some more teams for Chinas?

We still need more volunteers!

especially for these countries:

UK
GER
FRA
USSR
JAP
USA

Vichy France
Hungary
Romania
Yugoslavia
Bulgaria
Greece
Sweden
Finland
Denmark
Norway
Canada
Mexico
Brazil
Argentina
Australia
 
To those who already participate:

Cardus: Please make some suggestions. 5 new teams for Italy?

One Navy team is Borghese. Please see http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10214134&postcount=62

Regarding the aircrafts I would add Reggiane (the second team, here are the pictures http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reggiane-logo.svg, http://www.clubfreccetricolori.com/clubfrecce9/Reggiane/re2000/RE-2000-28.jpg) and I would consider the two options:

1) A change in the inc file is allowed
2) No change in the inc file is allowed

In the first case I would propose Macchi with the same specialities of Supermarine and one or two skills less (for the sake of prejudice)

Reggiane should slightly differ from Macchi because it should better suit for the CAG development.

In the second case Macchi with the same specialities of Supermarine and skills = 6

Reggiane skill = 6 should slightly differ from Macchi because it should better suit for the CAG development.

I will tell you about the 3 additional teams
 
Last edited:
Both Denmark and Norway already have decent naval teams skill 6. Check the teams in HoI2 and reconsider your suggestions, please.

If there are any major corporations or scientific capacities you miss in HoI2 tech teams, post their names, pictures, start and end dates, links for sources and a brief explanation.

Well, I was thinking of them more as doctrine teams and not so much as ship building teams as they have those already as you point out. However the single norwegian naval doctrine team is only skill 3 and the danish teams only get skill 4 after 1941. I am thinking that the specialities of the merchant marines should cover part of the the logistics tree and part of the naval tech tree hence the spread out specialities and lack of technical efficiency.

Anyway it doesn't matter much to me, I will instead try and compile a list of unincluded reserachers & research institutions that could be included for those countries that lack such tech teams.
 
Regarding radar the teach team name is Ugo Tiberio (starting service 1931 - retired 1979, picture http://www.regiamarina.net/others/radar/images/tiberio.jpg)

Guglielmo Marconi invented the radio so in Italy there were some skills, know how, interest on the radio. In fact

"Tiberio, on his own, had since 1931 independently dedicated time to what was later named "Radio-Detector Telemetry" (RDT) and later simplified to "Radiotelemetri" (RaRi) following the experiences of Marconi until 1937, when the tests conducted by the inventor were interrupted following his death. " from http://www.regiamarina.net/others/radar/radar_one_us.htm

Between 1936 and 1939 he developed the following radars EC.1, EC.1bis EC.2, EC.3 - first generation - continuous wave
The second generation developed between 1939 and 1942 was EC.3, EC.3bis, EC.3ter, Folaga - pulse radar
The third generation developed between 1942 and 1943 was Veltro, Lince Vicino, Lince Lontano (Argo), Lepre, Radiotelemetro Gigante (not finished because of the fall of Italy)

Tiberio was not the only one. Please find below a short list of concurrent/independent research/initiatives
1935 - Regia Marina founded a new company: "Fabbrica Fivre" in order to produce vacuum tubes
1936 - Agostino del Vecchio - pulse radio rangefinder
March 1936 - Ernesto Montù - radio direction finder
1941 - Arturo Castellani - pulse radio rangefinder

Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=N3jPv-yONNoC&dq=radar+italia&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Even though the beginning and the results were quite promising the highest rank in Supermarina (e.g. Ricciardi, Cavagnari, Iachino) and in the State didn't understand the importance of the research and didn't want to support it.

For all above said I would assign to Ugo Tiberio
skill = 5 (less than sufficient)
In service: 1931-1979 (reference http://biblio.unipi.it:8081/archiviofoto/entity.jsp?entity=Tiberio Ugo)
Specialities: Electronics,Management,Mechanics
 
Last edited:
Hereby I present my suggestions of new Czechoslovak tech teams:

Here you can see CZE tech teams from HoI2 + 4 new teams. The last 4 are my suggestions.

CZEteams.jpg

Baťa

One of the largest CZE corporations. The founder, Tomáš Baťa, introduced revolutionary Fordist management methods and exercised a vast influence over the government. Baťa was primarily a producer of shoes and during the war they produced all kinds of military equipment for infantry.

Start date: 1930 (default)
End date: 1970 (default)

I cannot not support this idea. I've read much about Bata and he deserves to be here.


Tatra

The vehicle manufacturer. Tatra is the third oldest car maker in the world after Daimler Mercedes-Benz and Peugeot.

Start date: 1930 (default)
End date: 1970 (default)

Image:

Similar with that - no problems here.

Josef František

A Czechoslovak fighter pilot. The number one Allied ace in the battle of Britain. Died in 1940.

Start date: 1930 (default)
End date: 1940 (death)

Image:



Karel Kuttelwascher


Another fighter ace and after war, a flying instructor. He should replace Josef František in 1940 because Czechoslovakia has no air doctrine team after 1939 in vanilla HoI2.

Start date: 1941 (replaces Josef František)
End date: 1959 (death)

Image:


But I have some with those teams. I mean three abilities seems too much for a single person.
If they were commanding units, affecting air doctrine or training of the entire country that is a diffent thing altogether, yet with Frantisek there are the remarks about his insubordination:

"A very ill-disciplined pilot,[2] he was seen by his commanding officers as a danger to his colleagues when they were flying in formation. His British Squadron Leader offered to arrange for František to transfer to a Czech squadron, but Frantisek preferred to stay and fight alongside his Polish friends. As all pilots were valuable, a compromise was created whereby his position in the Squadron was replaced, with František allotted a "spare" aircraft so he could fly as a "guest" of the Squadron as and when he wanted to."

This is a trait shared by many fighter pilots, but makes him much worse choice when it comes to doctrine teams.

See
that for POL I proposed 5 skill techteam with two abilities and CWOL w Deblinie (where Frantisek spent some time after he left CZE - as a flight instructor I think) was and is a major pilot school and famous because of the pilots and air crews it trained. It was one of several schools in Poland, but best known so must be there.


I guess a team named after a famous fighter pilot can represent an entire school, but perhaps there is a named training center they came from - there could be a picture, a logo, a badge or something which could be used.
This way you could replace both pilots with the school leaving one techteam entry free.
 
Last edited:
I could add some more TTs for Spain, but I find Spain quite balanced as it is, with decent, varied tech teams. A TT for each Land, Air, and Naval doctrines till 1970 (I think one is till 66, but it's practically the same), a Naval TT, 2 air TTs, a couple industrial TTs...

I could add a couple more if so you want, but I didn't find it necessary in any way.
 
First of all:


LordOfBlood + Great_Chairman - guys, are you going to do some work on Turkish and Chinese teams?

Any new volunteers want to suggest new tech teams?



Now replies:
One Navy team is Borghese. Please see http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10214134&postcount=62

Regarding the aircrafts I would add Reggiane (the second team, here are the pictures http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reggiane-logo.svg, http://www.clubfreccetricolori.com/clubfrecce9/Reggiane/re2000/RE-2000-28.jpg) and I would consider the two options:

1) A change in the inc file is allowed
2) No change in the inc file is allowed

In the first case I would propose Macchi with the same specialities of Supermarine and one or two skills less (for the sake of prejudice)

Reggiane should slightly differ from Macchi because it should better suit for the CAG development.

In the second case Macchi with the same specialities of Supermarine and skills = 6

Reggiane skill = 6 should slightly differ from Macchi because it should better suit for the CAG development.

I will tell you about the 3 additional teams

Ok. Thank you.

1. I got Borghese. But we got stuck in the matter of skill. What do you say about 4? Was he less/equally/more important than Cavagnari who has skill 4?

2. Reggiane - ok

3. 3 more teams - ok

4. I prefer no change in production. We cannot consider Italy as a special case.

5. Finally, I would like to ask you to post (after we have finished the discussion) the final version of your suggestion so that I can easily code it without much searching around the thread. Thank you!

Anyway it doesn't matter much to me, I will instead try and compile a list of unincluded reserachers & research institutions that could be included for those countries that lack such tech teams.

Ok. What countries are you interested in? Please post the new teams with these information included:

1. name
2. picture in 96x96 resolution + black/white
3. start date + end date
4. links for sources (preferably English wikipedia)
5. a short briefing about those teams and reasons for which you have chosen them


Regarding radar the teach team name is Ugo Tiberio (starting service 1931 - retired 1979, picture http://www.regiamarina.net/others/radar/images/tiberio.jpg)

Guglielmo Marconi invented the radio so in Italy there were some skills, know how, interest on the radio. In fact

"Tiberio, on his own, had since 1931 independently dedicated time to what was later named "Radio-Detector Telemetry" (RDT) and later simplified to "Radiotelemetri" (RaRi) following the experiences of Marconi until 1937, when the tests conducted by the inventor were interrupted following his death. " from http://www.regiamarina.net/others/radar/radar_one_us.htm

Between 1936 and 1939 he developed the following radars EC.1, EC.1bis EC.2, EC.3 - first generation - continuous wave
The second generation developed between 1939 and 1942 was EC.3, EC.3bis, EC.3ter, Folaga - pulse radar
The third generation developed between 1942 and 1943 was Veltro, Lince Vicino, Lince Lontano (Argo), Lepre, Radiotelemetro Gigante (not finished because of the fall of Italy)

Tiberio was not the only one. Please find below a short list of concurrent/independent research/initiatives
1935 - Regia Marina founded a new company: "Fabbrica Fivre" in order to produce vacuum tubes
1936 - Agostino del Vecchio - pulse radio rangefinder
March 1936 - Ernesto Montù - radio direction finder
1941 - Arturo Castellani - pulse radio rangefinder

Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=N3jPv-yONNoC&dq=radar+italia&lr=&as_brr=3&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Even though the beginning and the results were quite promising the highest rank in Supermarina (e.g. Ricciardi, Cavagnari, Iachino) and in the State didn't understand the importance of the research and didn't want to support it.

For all above said I would assign to Ugo Tiberio
skill = 5 (less than sufficient)
In service: 1931-1979 (reference http://biblio.unipi.it:8081/archiviofoto/entity.jsp?entity=Tiberio Ugo)
Specialities: Electronics,Management,Mechanics

Hmmm, it seems quite OK. Are you sure that he deserves skill 5? The same level as legendary Balbo or Breda? :)

I guess a team named after a famous fighter pilot can represent an entire school, but perhaps there is a named training center they came from - there could be a picture, a logo, a badge or something which could be used.
This way you could replace both pilots with the school leaving one techteam entry free.

You're right. I shall try to find an alternative. But you know, J. František is a legend so there is a certain right to call the whole "school" after him.

Thank you for your comment!

I could add a couple more if so you want, but I didn't find it necessary in any way.

If there are any famous or significant teams that are not in HoI2, give them here! I think that Nat. Spain can do with only 3 new teams since it doesn't play an important role in the war. So 2 new teams from you would be nice! :)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.