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  • Removed restriction that you could not assimilate if you lived in homeland
  • Removed restriction that you can only assimilate to cultures with which you share a cultural heritage trait
  • Removed the restriction for conversion on the Violent Hostility acceptance status
bad and sad
now an ethnostate with state religion will firstly convert, than integrate literally any other culture and ethnicity. ridiculous.

This is a short sighted reaction. the change is great, it solves this problem for the time being while we wait for something better.
This entire space has been broken since launch and has been largely ignored by a lot of people.
This change is a good change, but it demonstrates how the real problem is not the 'assimilation' or conversion system it's self but specially the laws and concepts that surround it.

Let me explain:

Let's look at Ethnostate, what does that even mean? Conceptually it should model a society that see it's Ethnicity as it's founding value. But what about racism, are those the same and one? No, you can have a soft ethnostate that simply discriminates against other ethnicities, or a hard one that actively exterminates them and focuses on replacement. Either way, one of the defining traits of such system should be an increase in birth rates and the idea would greater population of territories.(There is a name for this in Germna that I won't be writing here).

Now on the other end let's look at Multiculturalism, to me this society is trying to represent a very Laissez-faire society, where the concept of nation, state and ethnicity has been erased. In this society maybe pops can change with time, but the central trait should be nearly full tolerance, and possibilities. Maybe with some negatives in politics and military. Given that the lack of connection between peoples makes them less cohesive and harder to direct to a common united goal.(That won't necessarily serve their private interests)

Then we go into Racial/Segregation... Again, what does that even mean? Isn't the Ethnotate supposed to be the policy/law of racial segregation? This one is bonkers, maybe it could be the "lesser" Ethnostate as I talked about, and the one above could be the hardliner.

Then we get to the Nationalist one, this should be the only one that favors pop conversion explicitly, as it was in history.
The key thing here is that the concept of nation doesn't have to be tied to ethnicity as it sometimes was in history, and this is the central point.

This reveals the real problem of the current system. The problem is that ethnicity and culture currently are largely treated as the same thing.
And throughout history they have been very different. A Greek Roman citizen, would have been a Roman never the less. In some regions of the world, over time, this led to situations, like what you see in Spain, where clearly there are people who have all sorts of dna/ethno ancient backgrounds and therefore look different, but are all considered 'Spanish', even ethnically, so here we see the concept of ethnicity being constructed. Likewise you have immigrant countries like the USA, that have all sorts of people who migrate to the country and don't necessarily mix, but do adopt a sense of American as an identity that ultimately unifies them. You also have scenarios like in some African countries where they have a hard time convincing everyone that this new state-level national identity(that they are supposed to adopt) is better for everyone and they all should be on board, instead of fighting each other for supremacy.

This all points to the fact that something resembling "culture" has to be treated differently from ethnicity. I think it is also important to not reduce this 'culture' simply to an idea of national identity, since it by definition also involves other elements like religion.(as seen in the secular vs religious state debates that still exist today)
It's interesting that CK3 for all it's shortcomings explores these elements of people and religion in very creative ways, in a period that didn't even have "nations".

So all in all, as I wrote above, I think it's a step in the right direction, but the truth is that the entire system needs to be re-worked from the ground up. The game currently is very ethnocentric, as I explained above, so it's not accidental that Ethnostate ends up being the best option(depending), the problem is not that pops now can be, correctly, as it was in history, converted, but rather it's the entire logic of the system and it's concepts.

If you've read this far I hope this was useful, PDX is clearly trying but more changes are needed. This patch is still better than before.
 
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It would be useful to add the effects of a trade agreement when receiving an offer.

For example:

Trade Agreement Offer from [country]

"Accepting this trade agreement would change the following prices of traded goods
1...
2... (trade volume expected to increase from X to Y for this good)
3...

Your income from tariffs is estimated to decrease from X to Y making your total projected income be Z.

This trade agreement will free up X bureaucracy."
 
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Annoyed being able to assimilate on Tier 5 acceptance was removed. Now my preformance has tanked thanks to pop fragmentation.
That one actually makes sense though. People don't assimilate in that sense unless they have a reason to. Or only very slowly. Also it should primarily be a gameplay feature and only secondarily a performance question. Plus there's mods for pop merging and such if you really do need it.
Edit: Also I'm not sure you could before either. At least according to the dev diaries you shouldn't.
 
That one actually makes sense though. People don't assimilate in that sense unless they have a reason to. Or only very slowly. Also it should primarily be a gameplay feature and only secondarily a performance question. Plus there's mods for pop merging and such if you really do need it.
Edit: Also I'm not sure you could before either. At least according to the dev diaries you shouldn't.
But it also doesn't. You're right, people assimilate if they have a reason to, like the European migrant farmers assimilating to the American culture and gaining more opportunities because of it. However, people also generally assimilate through time anyway, even if they're fully accepted. Though, it's mostly a generational change with their children having much more in common with their country's culture and identity than with their heritage.

Also, I don't know if you're arguing for this or not, but even those with the most reason and willingness to assimilate, even if they had help to do so, couldn't due to racial lines. Mexican assimilation into the American culture during the 1920's-80's was highly encouraged by both the government and the Mexican people themselves, but ultimately assimilation didn't translate into equality or more opportunities, and they were still highly discriminated against. The realization that assimilation simply didn't mean anything was foundational to the Chicano Movement, and is an incredibly important part of Mexican-American history.
 
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A reasonable change to the assimilation would simply be like -50% to homeland assimilation rate and say a 75%-85% reduction to non-sharing heritage so outsode of india they would have a moderate assimilation rate after migration but in their home territory merely a small trickle.

This would also alleviate the mass cultural shift in the great powers owning say poland and mass assimilating them in a few decades.
Can u mod that, which folder is it in? I would love to reverse these terrible changes
 
Thinking I might wait for the assimilation changes to be modified before a start a new game. I have a feeling that this is not 100% WAD and that there's going to be a hotfix fairly soon.
 
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Will there be another update before the Christmas break?
I think there has to be at least a quick tweak update to assimilation, it's bonkers right now.

Was playing a game as Japan, and by 1860 there were no Czechs, Hungarians, and even India was majority English. Assimilation is dramatically overtuned.

Assimilation should really be at a low scale, except if a pop migrates. If a pop decides to migrate, it should then have a high chance of adopting a cultural trait of wherever it ends up going.
 
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I hope 1.8.5 will be out this week as the assimilation change completely broke the game, India went +15-20% towards English in just a decade of observer mode. Even just reverting that change would be enough till they figure out what to do about it later. I know it sounds like the meme but literally unplayable right now.
 
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I like that you are able now to assimilate pops with no cultural heritage it was annoying seeing states as the USA with no yankee population at all. I just hope its balanced so if I conquer china it doesn’t all flip to yankee in 20 years
I know what you mean but there is just no point in having cultures or citizenship laws if they mean nothing. Currently the CSA, with Slavery and Racial Segregation enabled is assimilating Afroamerican slaves into Dixie slaves. It is madness.

I personally think that these restrictions should be tied to the actual citizenship laws. If you have Racial Segregation you should not be able to assimilate people of a different heritage, with cultural exclusion you should be able to but only if they share a cultural trait and lets say if you have multiculturalism enabled it should be fair game - all resitrictions lifted. It just simply makes no sense that a racially segregated country with slavery or an ethnostate that despises every other ethnicity is happily assimilating those pops and then might even be enslaving their own.

While I dont think that this is perfectly realistic either, because whites and blacks in the US are still two different ethnic groups even though they have the same rights, it might work well for the games purpose.
 
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While I really dont like how assimilation works right now, I also see the problem some people might have had with the old system and I would like to offer an olive branch and some of my own ideas. The current change is bad in my opinion because there is really no point in having homelands, cultures or citizenship laws if they effectively mean nothing. Let me explain.

Current state:
In the current version of the game British India with Racial Segregation is assimilating insane amounts of Indians into Englishmen. The CSA with Racials Segregation is turning afroamerican slaves into dixie slaves and the boer republics are effectively turning their oppressed and disenfranchised african population into Dutchmen. This is cleary madness and causes significant harm to both realism and immersion.

Heritage/Culture and citizenship laws:
I personally think that restrictions to assimilation should be tied to the actual citizenship laws. If you have Racial Segregation for example you should not be able to assimilate people of a different heritage, with cultural exclusion you should be able to but only if they share a cultural trait. In case you have multiculturalism enabled it should be fair game - all restrictions lifted. I might add that I dont think that this is perfectly realistic either, because whites and blacks in the US are still two different ethnic groups even though they have the same rights, but it might work well for the games purpose. However, it just simply makes no sense that a racially segregated country with slavery is happily assimilating those pops and then might even be enslaving their own kind. Same goes for an exclusive ethnostate that despises other ethnicities but happily welcomes them into their own ethnic group.

Homelands:
I always found it kinda annoying that there is zero assimilation happening in Homelands because I have always considered that to be unrealistic. In my opinion there should be a huge malus however bringing it to almost zero percent which should make assimilation almost impossible without a larger effort, which is where the assimilation decree should come into play. The decree on the other hand should not only increase conversion and assimilation rates but also generate radicals in the remaining unconverted/assimilated population.

I hope I was able to make a constructive contribution to the discussion. Let me know what you think about my ideas.
 
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I Think like RELIGIOUS LAWS, there should be a tier like State Atheism where there is no assimilation as all cultures are "equal" granting great tolerance to every and each culture but non support or even be against assimilation.

So MULTICULTURALISM should be called EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW, where all citizens are treated equal but a prmari culture is in order.

and the new tier MULTICULTURALISM, ( like state atheism) is where there is no preferred culture, even be against assimilation, having concept like cultural appropiation or have education in the minor culture language and even allow cultural customs ( like beating woman) because difference in perspective. So finnaly not integratin anyone and generate a balkanization of cultural enclaves where all going to blow sooner or later, all in the name of multiculturalism.
 
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Lmao SLAVES assimilate too what is this update, how can a SLAVE suddenly be like you know what I think I’m ready to integrate into society now
Some slaves became freed. Some children of slaves became freed (specially if mixed-heritage). Though I agree it should be much less than currently.
 
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I know what you mean but there is just no point in having cultures or citizenship laws if they mean nothing. Currently the CSA, with Slavery and Racial Segregation enabled is assimilating Afroamerican slaves into Dixie slaves. It is madness.

I personally think that these restrictions should be tied to the actual citizenship laws. If you have Racial Segregation you should not be able to assimilate people of a different heritage, with cultural exclusion you should be able to but only if they share a cultural trait and lets say if you have multiculturalism enabled it should be fair game - all resitrictions lifted. It just simply makes no sense that a racially segregated country with slavery or an ethnostate that despises every other ethnicity is happily assimilating those pops and then might even be enslaving their own.

While I dont think that this is perfectly realistic either, because whites and blacks in the US are still two different ethnic groups even though they have the same rights, it might work well for the games purpose.
I suspect strange things would happen if you are able to get Afro-American as primary culture, but not Dixie during reconstruction. You'll have a few years of Afro-American becoming enslaved Dixies (lol), a few years of everyone being accepted, and then when you switch back to a more regressive law, you'll have Dixies merging into Afro-Americans.

Obviously just weird
 
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That one actually makes sense though. People don't assimilate in that sense unless they have a reason to. Or only very slowly. Also it should primarily be a gameplay feature and only secondarily a performance question. Plus there's mods for pop merging and such if you really do need it.
Edit: Also I'm not sure you could before either. At least according to the dev diaries you shouldn't.
make sense sure. Again not the issue its an issue with preformance. Pop fragmentation is the Primary cause of preformance drops if a change like this causes crashes and slows gameplay. thats not a change for the sake of realism its a mistake that makes the gameplay experience worse.
 
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make sense sure. Again not the issue its an issue with preformance. Pop fragmentation is the Primary cause of preformance drops if a change like this causes crashes and slows gameplay. thats not a change for the sake of realism its a mistake that makes the gameplay experience worse.

I mean I get that some sacrifices have to be made on that front. But they shouldn't cut down all these systems just for every last bit of performance. Especially not when the results would make absolutely zero sense. It's a complex game, it's going to need some CPU power. Besides, there's mods solving that with various degrees of aggression for those who really have a problem with that. Even one that mergest most cultures into a couple superregional ones.

So just like... get that if you need it?
 
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It’s interesting because there were plenty of examples of assimilation in homelands in certain cases. Magyarization in Greater Hungary, Russification in Poland, Germanization in Prussia, Turkification/Hellenization in the Aegean.

The issue is a sweet spot needs to be found whereby certain assimilation can occur in homelands without seeing millions of English Bengalis or South German Hungary in 1856. Perhaps a wealth/urbanization requirement to homeland assimilation to represent assimilation for the wealthy and educated, while the peasantry retain provincial customs?
 
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