I am worried the turkic tribes will get shafted in the Steppe dlc in favor of the Mongols

[Koppel235]

So question: What sort of stuff should the Magyars, Turkic peoples, the Khazars, and so on have. What flavor should they have that is unique to them.

Unique armor and clothing like the qaba,flavor regarding the Ashina dynasty and the Gokturk Khaganate.Add wrestling as a sport and stuff like the Books of Dede Korkut.

 

[Canomeister]

Unique armor and clothing like the qaba,flavor regarding the Ashina dynasty and the Gokturk Khaganate.Add wrestling as a sport and stuff like the Books of Dede Korkut.

Event chains based on stories of Dede Korkut

 

[tribnia]

So question: What sort of stuff should the Magyars, Turkic peoples, the Khazars, and so on have. What flavor should they have that is unique to them.

Atabeg? Not nomad but 100% Turkic.
Dual kingship to divide their power? Sometimes it's king vs Marshall like Khazars, sometimes are king vs co-king like Karakhanid.
The various mercenary states. Like Barbary pirates, Mamluks of Egypt and Delhi. However, I do not think these should be purely Turkic flavor, as Gotland was plagued by pirates, and Athens occupied by Catholic mercenaries. I think perhaps in some future update, such government dominated by militarial strongmen thus always having an unstable succession could be an independent government.

 

[Enku7071]

It is funny to see turkbros seething over the DLC like the Chinese did over Graveyard of Empires, but I can't help but feel a shred of sympathy for them lmao. I, too, seethed over Mongol territories and characters having cringe modern-era names that was simply too hard to see through.

In all seriousness tho, I fully anticipate PDX to pull another Byzantium-China thingy they are pulling right now, where the Mongols get a shiny new content because it's "popular" (there is a reason people do not turn on Admin govt for Ghana and Arabia), and Turkic kingdoms getting a modified system with a sprinke of its own flavours and mechanics because it'd be "new". Also also, considering the Silk Road and the earlier start dates, it is no-brainer that PDX does not consider adding at least sth to Turks imo, but personally I don't see it coming anytime soon.

Maybe Turkish playerbase can lobby PDX enough to add at least a different names/looks for Turkic nations, custom khaganate decisions, and special building types and not just Shamanistic pile of rock for the estate. Then again, the Chinese had to wait for years to finally not have Mongol/Turkic character looks, so it'd be no surprising if the Turkic countries end up getting shafted anyways. If you would, consider getting my two cents on this matter with a pinch of salt.

Not that it matters for me personally, I am content with Mongolia anyways it'll be fun.

 

[aegeann13]

Yep it's official, there won't be a Turkic flavor. This is ridiculous tbh. If a steppe dlc is only focusing on Mongols, what's the point of advertising it as "inspired by the peoples of Eurasian Steppes"? No, it's inspired only by Mongols and largely applied to all of the peoples of Eurasian Steppes...

I understand that PDX need to think about game design choices first, so by overhauling Mongols they'll make it possible for Central Asia (therefore indirectly Europe) to interact with China and adding Silk Road/trade mechanics for the next chapter. And I totally trust the devs to make it right, I've seen what they did with Roads to Power. I'm sure it will be very immersive and fun to play. I totally support this. BUT... there are other game design opportunities PDX is missing so bad. There is still the western part of the map. To carry the effects of the Chinese-Mongols interactions through the Europe, Turks need to be overhauled. It's like a domino effect. I don't wanna comment on how immersive and fun would the interactions between the Mongols and Turks be 'cause we haven't seen any DevDiaries yet (although it seems alright from what I've seen from the trailer) but I don't need to read any DevDiaries to know that without the Turks the effects of these interactions being carried over to Europe won't be well reflected.

And let's forget about China and the Silk Road, there are still other opportunities for PDX to impress players. There are Still Cumania and Khazaria, two great empires already present on the map during the games timeline. Let's review what could be done with both of them one by one;
Cumans/Kipchaks are one of two most populous Turkic branches alongside the Oghuz. They were highly influential throughout the history of Eastern Europe and the Western Steppes. They have transformed a Khaganate founded by Mongols, The Golden Horde, to a Turkic Khaganate by their influence and population. They also influenced the politics of Kievan Rus, Hungary, Wallachia and Moldavia by being integrated to the countries' elite. They had a role in the creation of the Second Bulgarian Empire.
Khazars on the other hand, formed the most powerful state to emerge from the Western Turkic Khaganate which will become an important trade empire, ruling Crimea and Caucasus for centuries. Khazar Khaganate was a strong buffer state between the Byzantine Empire and the Islamic Caliphates and later converted to Judaism. Think about it, a Jewish Turkic Khaganate that interferes with the politics of Byzantine Empire and the Caliphates. Think about how entertaining ways of playing it could offer. But PDX seems to be missing out such opportunities, or maybe just ignoring.

This is just unbelievable to me...

 

[Rudolf Nechvile II]

As far as I'm aware it's not in the original scope. No reason that you should stop saying you want it added if you want it added, though. Every bit of feedback is weighed and considered, after all.

> Khans of the Steppe
> Looks inside
> Literally just Khans of the Mongols

But seriously though, how could you not include content specific to Turkic and other Nomads too, especially after RtP?! Before the Mongol invasions (relatively late, in terms of this game), Turkic nomads were the steppe invaders of Europe and Eastern Rome, and even if we'd exclude the Seljuks we'd still have: Huns, Bulgars, Avars, Khazars, Pechenegs, and Cumans.

This isn't even mentioning the Magyars, who although not Turkic, still deserve attention due to the huge impact they had on Central European history. At least please just change how the migration to the Pannonian Basin works to be more in line with new content, instead of making us wait a few more years.

Lastly, I feel that giving the Turkic tribes more content would automatically liven up Eastern Europe, making playing in the region more dynamic, even if you don't play them. For many, it might lessen the sting of just having an entire year dedicated to the Far East.

 

[aegeann13]

> Khans of the Steppe
> Looks inside
> Literally just Khans of the Mongols

But seriously though, how could you not include content specific to Turkic and other Nomads too, especially after RtP?! Before the Mongol invasions (relatively late, in terms of this game), Turkic nomads were the steppe invaders of Europe and Eastern Rome, and even if we'd exclude the Seljuks we'd still have: Huns, Bulgars, Avars, Khazars, Pechenegs, and Cumans.

This isn't even mentioning the Magyars, who although not Turkic, still deserve attention due to the huge impact they had on Central European history. At least please just change how the migration to the Pannonian Basin works to be more in line with new content, instead of making us wait a few more years.

Lastly, I feel that giving the Turkic tribes more content would automatically liven up Eastern Europe, making playing in the region more dynamic, even if you don't play them. It might lessen the sting of just having an entire year dedicated to the Far East, for many.

I don't think we'll get any Turkic or Magyar overhaul after Khans of the Steppe. They already advertising it as a "Nomad DLC" and even this one doesn't contain any flavor. They won't release another nomad dlc.

 

[n0madd]

I'm not the most knowledgable on the Turks and history of the nomads, but from a time-sequence perspective, shouldn't it be that the Turks and Turkic peoples have Xiongnu ancestry and not the other way around? I mean we have records about the Xiongnu having a state six hundred years before we have records about the Turks getting one.

Actually, no, Turkic is an umbrella term that cover Khazars, Cumans, Seljuks, Pechenegs, karakhanid and Xiognu as well etc. Xiognu have records of language they used, which is in the first page I sent the article here. For the sake of simplicity, Turkic and Turk terms are used interchangeably. However, even rework on Turks (Seljuks) would make the game way better.

 

[Rudolf Nechvile II]

I don't think we'll get any Turkic or Magyar overhaul after Khans of the Steppe. They already presenting it as a "Nomad DLC" and even this one doesn't contain any flavor. They won't release another nomad dlc.

I agree that this is probably the last chance to get some specific mechanics for them, but I could 100% see them trying to sell us an event pack called "Riders of the Steppe" or something, with "flavour" for the other steppe peoples. But it shouldn't be this way. It sucks that they'd chop up various steppe content over multiple DLCs.

The least the could have done is be upfront and call it the Mongol DLC, instead of being somewhat misleading. It's also disappointing/frustrating, because a lot of the early questions and feedback (the point of the early DD reveal), was regarding Turkic and other nomads.

 

[Rudolf Nechvile II]

One thing I'd like to add is that the absence of Turkic, or other nomadic flavour, especially sucks because of how slow the DLC cycle is. Because of how many huge mechanics are absent, it would literally take years to get the specific meaningful content you would want, and is also the main source of dissatisfaction with the how Chapter IV is exclusively Asia. It's especially bitter because this is the perfect opportunity to add such flavour (and people got hyped for it), only to be told that we'd have to wait years.

There's no beating around the bush, because regardless of the desired mechanic/flavour, every statement from a dev of "not now" or "not in this DLC" literally translates to "in 2-3 years... maybe...".

 

[Enku7071]

One thing I'd like to add is that the absence of Turkic, or other nomadic flavour, especially sucks because of how slow the DLC cycle is. Because of how many huge mechanics are absent, it would literally take years to get the specific meaningful content you would want, and is also the main source of dissatisfaction with the how Chapter IV is exclusively Asia. It's especially bitter because this is the perfect opportunity to add such flavour (and people got hyped for it), only to be told that we'd have to wait years.

There's no beating around the bush, because regardless of the desired mechanic/flavour, every statement from a dev of "not now" or "not in this DLC" literally translates to "in 2-3 years... maybe...".

Which is a problem of a modern game tbh, the additional content cycle is very slow.

The way I see it now personally, is that the only way to persuade the PDX team now is to pretty much lobby and push further to make them true to their words on all nomads, not just Mongols themselves.

If they plan on leaving the Turkic nations as a skeleton content, at least give them the necessary special names and formables/decisions to at least make it palpable until more fitting update comes. My thought is that as they will be adding China and as such the Silk Road, they should* be adding some flavour to the Cumania/Central Asian turkic nations within this year, considering their involvement in the Silk Road, as well as the previous start date (meaning that Mongols won't be always around to curbstomp everyone into solution) and their historical connection with China (considering the Tang dynasty/Uighurs).

Again, I am not very knowledgeable with Turkic nations as a whole, but as a Mongol I can see the significance of uniqueness into Turkic nations at the start of the Nomadic govt type (not to mention the immense cultural connection with the Turkics ala Bilge Tonyukuk/Orkhon runestones/woolen Nike shoes), hence I feel it'd be extremely lackluster to simply paint every nomads to have Mongol-esque culture and formables (looking at you, Kipchak "Mongol" Empire created by the Spiffing Brit lmao) and thus leaving the center of the map out dry with no content to bother with. Then again, it's Paradox after all. I'll hold onto my tiny sliver of hope of rebuilding the Greek-inspired Turkic khaganate tho, it'd be as fun as playing Mongolia personally.

* edit

 

[Grave Digger]

It's such an odd thing to focus on, you're making a big nomadic dlc and your sole focus is the mongol empire? Especially with china coming in and Byzantium being the focus of last year?

The seljuks in 1178 are so hilariously bad right now, they're so weak because they use the clan government and are the minority culture and religion in Anatolia so you end up seeing them quickly collapse to either civil war or successful peasant revolts. Not to even mention the absurd conquer all de jure land cassus belli you have that can kick the turks out of anatolia in one war.

Then the fact that you can literally have your strategoses bordering the turks just blob into anatolia because of how weak the turks are. They need serious uplifts, something I expected from the big nomad dlc but apparently not, pop history is more important than shinning a light on the other important turkic peoples in the region and tune period I guess.

This is it.

We have a Byzantine DLC that ignored the Turkish invasion aspect.
We have a Persian DLC that mostly ignored the Turkish impact on the region
Now we have a Steppe DLC which was ruled for the longest time by Turkish tribes and it focuses only on the Mongols.

If not in this DLC then there won't be any flavor for Turkic culture.

I was really excited for this DLC but why is the content so laser focused on the Mongols? I have 0 understanding of it.
Normally I'm not even active in this forum (anymore) but I came back from the dead just to post about this issue, lol.


Edit: It feels like a HRE DLC only focusing on the Austrian culture.

 

[Enku7071]

This is it.

We have a Byzantine DLC that ignored the Turkish invasion aspect.
We have a Persian DLC that mostly ignored the Turkish impact on the region
Now we have a Steppe DLC which was ruled for the longest time by Turkish tribes and it focuses only on the Mongols.

If not in this DLC then there won't be any flavor for Turkic culture.

I was really excited for this DLC but why is the content so laser focused on the Mongols? I have 0 understanding of it.
Normally I'm not even active in this forum (anymore) but I came back from the dead just to post about this issue, lol.

I think it's because Mongols are to become the endgame boss, and thus more appealing for players to play as one.

Still, if they wanted to, they could have just named it "Mongols DLC" and I and many others here would have been fine, if not bit miffed, with it.

I fear that it'll become the next "Chinese characters having Mongolic costume" issue for the upcoming years (at least the Chinese were jubilant that they'd no longer have to look "barbaric" lmao), but I'd love to be proven wrong, as the DLC is still under development.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I agree that this is probably the last chance to get some specific mechanics for them, but I could 100% see them trying to sell us an event pack called "Riders of the Steppe" or something, with "flavour" for the other steppe peoples. But it shouldn't be this way. It sucks that they'd chop up various steppe content over multiple DLCs.

The least the could have done is be upfront and call it the Mongol DLC, instead of being somewhat misleading. It's also disappointing/frustrating, because a lot of the early questions and feedback (the point of the early DD reveal), was regarding Turkic and other nomads.

Maybe the flavor pack would be called "Children of the Wolf" in reference to the Turk origin myth and it would be a good chance to bring back the Wolf Child events of CK2.

 

[n0madd]

I think it's because Mongols are to become the endgame boss, and thus more appealing for players to play as one.

Still, if they wanted to, they could have just named it "Mongols DLC" and I and many others here would have been fine, if not bit miffed, with it.

I fear that it'll become the next "Chinese characters having Mongolic costume" issue for the upcoming years (at least the Chinese were jubilant that they'd no longer have to look "barbaric" lmao), but I'd love to be proven wrong, as the DLC is still under development.

Yeah, it's not even Mongol flavour; it's Temujin flavour. Where are the dates for Uluses? Where is Pax Mongolica? It's literally a foundational mechanic without flavour for either of the cultures

 

[Koppel235]

Yeah, it's not even Mongol flavour; it's Temujin flavour. Where are the dates for Uluses? Where is Pax Mongolica? It's literally a foundational mechanic without flavour for either of the cultures

Just to add from Steam page they do have Mongol peace as a decision.

 

[n0madd]

Just to add from Steam page they do have Mongol peace as a decision.

That is dope. Now, we need 1 decision for every culture, and the game is complete (sarcasm alert)

 

[n0madd]

Just to add from Steam page they do have Mongol peace as a decision.

What I wanted to say is, just compare the little but extremely pleasurable flavour for William the Conqueror. The Anglo-Saxons try to cooperate with each other against the Norman invasion; they try to cooperate about supplies, key points to hold, coordination, etc. At least they tried to show it, which I call the flavour indeed. If they show it for Temujin, him being a slave, fighting against Merkits, befriending Subutai (the legend himself), etc, that would be so cool as a flavour just for Temujin. However, one decision is nothing and kills immersion. It's like drinking coffee in one go instead of slowly tasting it and enjoying every sip.

For Cumans they could have added flavour migration to Hungary and having their struggle there. Talking to king, working as mercenaries In Byzantine lands, against Bolgarians etc. Like so many flavours could be added, just creating a chain of different story telling, but all their flavour is DECISION (that is worst of all)

 

[Bisonmask]

The game devs prioritize dynamic scenarios over railroading, and as it is, turks already flood Persia in the 867 bookmark thanks to the "sponsor incursion" mechanic, to the point that it's super common for 60% or more of Persia be ruled by Turks.

given 100% of Persia ended up under Turkic rule I don't think that's a huge issue

the problem is this setup doesn't in my experience lead to an environment that created the Turco-Persian culture/governance we saw irl and the Seljuks rarely unite the region

there are similar problems with the Ghaznavids, Ghurids, and Rum which is weird in a game about the period that includes West and South Asia

Like when they added Hindustan in the new patch I struggled to recall the last time I saw a Muslim-ruled North India

 

[Metz]

As far as I'm aware it's not in the original scope. No reason that you should stop saying you want it added if you want it added, though. Every bit of feedback is weighed and considered, after all.

I would like to mention that the Iranian Intermezzo struggle ends too quickly. If it could be increased, or a game rule to increase it could be added it then that would be nice.