I am worried the turkic tribes will get shafted in the Steppe dlc in favor of the Mongols

[Dkdm89]

Yeah I have mostly given up now when it comes to Paradox adding more falvor or being interested in improving the Turkic people playthrough. It's sad how one of the most important ethnic groups in the base game region is mostly getting ignored and instead of depth, we get a bigger map.

 

[EmperorDweeb]

This is it.

We have a Byzantine DLC that ignored the Turkish invasion aspect.
We have a Persian DLC that mostly ignored the Turkish impact on the region
Now we have a Steppe DLC which was ruled for the longest time by Turkish tribes and it focuses only on the Mongols.

If not in this DLC then there won't be any flavor for Turkic culture.

I was really excited for this DLC but why is the content so laser focused on the Mongols? I have 0 understanding of it.
Normally I'm not even active in this forum (anymore) but I came back from the dead just to post about this issue, lol.


Edit: It feels like a HRE DLC only focusing on the Austrian culture.

God when you word it like this, it really show how nuts it is the the Turks haven't even got accidental flavoring from all the related DLC they should have got some representation in. Almost like they're deliberately juking any opportunity to flesh out the Turks. I really hope they get a Flavor pack that focuses specifically on them.

 

[Tbeaz161]

God when you word it like this, it really show how nuts it is the the Turk haven't even got accidental flavoring from all the related DLC they should have got some representation in. Almost like they're deliberately juking any opportunity to flesh out the Turks. I really hope the get a Flavor pack that focuses specifically on them.

I cannot remember if I mentioned this in this thread or another, but I cannot find response here, so appologies if I am repeating myself but -

I think they are basically doing this on purpose "deliberately juking any opportunity to flesh out turks" as the policy appears to be to put all paid features for a specific culture exclusively into one pack as there seems to be a policy of not building DLC upon each other. So they can't (won't) split turks over packs about persians, mongols, Byz, because it needs to be self contained.

This is just my theory.

 

[Grave Digger]

God when you word it like this, it really show how nuts it is the the Turk haven't even got accidental flavoring from all the related DLC they should have got some representation in. Almost like they're deliberately juking any opportunity to flesh out the Turks. I really hope the get a Flavor pack that focuses specifically on them.

With both Byzantines and Persia DLC I thought "let's see what they add for the Turkic culture" and when there was no content I thought "Aaah, of course they will keep that for a dedicated Steppe DLC".

Then I read the news that there is a Steppe DLC and I was thinking "See, I knew it!".
After reading the content of the DLC description I'm just left completely confused.

 

[Rudolf Nechvile II]

I cannot remember if I mentioned this in this thread or another, but I cannot find response here, so appologies if I am repeating myself but -

I think they are basically doing this on purpose "deliberately juking any opportunity to flesh out turks" as the policy appears to be to put all paid features for a specific culture exclusively into one pack as there seems to be a policy of not building DLC upon each other. So they can't (won't) split turks over packs about persians, mongols, Byz, because it needs to be self contained.

This is just my theory.

Yeah, but if you think about it, what better DLC is there for fleshing out the Turkic and Magyar nomads than the nomad DLC? As a consumer it really sucks that we'd have to buy yet another DLC just for them. Why can't we have multiple cultures fleshed out properly in the same DLC?

Also, don't market it as the  steppe nomad DLC if you just mean Mongols. Paradox should know better than anyone about misleading expectations.

 

[Koppel235]

Yeah, but if you think about it, what better DLC is there for fleshing out the Turks than nomad DLC? As a consumer it really sucks that we'd have to buy yet another DLC just for them. Why can't we have multiple cultures fleshed out properly in the same DLC?

Also, don't market it as the  steppe nomad DLC if you just mean Mongols. Paradox should know better than anyone about misleading expectations.

Agreed.So in essence to get a full steppe experience I need to pay double.

 

[Tbeaz161]

Conspiracy theory: They left it out on purpose so we can all be upset and then they will go look we listened to you and its going to be in now/ a free feature.

(This is copium/satire)

Extremely optimistic take: PDOX has been looking like they want to be more receptive to community with the slew of disasters they've been having for the least few years so maybe if people make it known enough about how they are unhappy with this maaaaaybe we will see something?

 

[EmperorDweeb]

Conspiracy theory: They left it out on purpose so we can all be upset and then they will go look we listened to you and its going to be in now/ a free feature.

(This is copium/satire)

Extremely optimistic take: PDOX has been looking like they want to be more receptive to community with the slew of disasters they've been having for the least few years so maybe if people make it known enough about how they are unhappy with this maaaaaybe we will see something?

Alternative Conspiracy: Greek Intelligence infiltration of the Paradox team. They might not be able to prevent the fall of Constantinople in our timeline, but if they prevent Turkish DLC they might be able to save it in the world of Crusader Kings

 

[barack_obma]

At the very least I was hoping for some visual variety for the Turks, even if most of the flavour was Mongol-focused. The existing “Steppe” clothing set is already based specifically on Mongol attire, so it’s weird that they seem to be getting even more clothes instead of adding a unique visual identity for Turkic cultures. I cringe every time I see Turks wearing that very distinctive Mongol hairstyle.

 

[Koppel235]

At the very least I was hoping for some visual variety for the Turks, even if most of the flavour was Mongol-focused. The existing “Steppe” clothing set is already based specifically on Mongol attire, so it’s weird that they seem to be getting even more clothes instead of adding a unique visual identity for Turkic cultures. I cringe every time I see Turks wearing that very distinctive Mongol hairstyle.

Made a thread some time back about it actually.And the sad thing is Turkic attire already exists in game.

 

[vyshan]

So we want Turkic flavor, but what do we want for the turks? what flavor do we want? We should make lots of suggestions for other nomads so that PDX can implement them.

My main thing is I want to have something to reflect the Seljuks coming into Persia and taking over and opposing the romans.

 

[barack_obma]

Made a thread some time back about it actually.And the sad thing is Turkic attire already exists in game.

It’s interesting that some of the sources the artist used for the Persian clothing set include depictions of Turks, but Turks still dont use it!

I know devs are still soliciting feedback, but realistically I don’t think they’re gonna be adding a whole new clothing set before the expansion releases. So a solution (for people who own Legacy of Persia, at least) would just be to also add those Persian clothes to the “Turkic” gfx set (which exists, but right now only contains the Turkic hats and hairstyles).

Even better if they exclusively use those clothes without also using the Mongol clothes, though this would require a bit of work since the Persian set doesn’t currently include a “commoner” tier. So if devs really wanted to go all out they could create some new textures for Persian/Turkic commoner clothes.

 

[Lazarenko]

I'm probably one of those who is more into Mongol history than Turkic history, but above that I've always been very interested in nomadic history. The bottom line is that much of nomadic history in the Eurasian steppes is basically Iranian and Turkic history. By the time of CK3 the nomadic Iranian peoples have since been marginalized and largely replaced/absorbed by the Turkic nomadic peoples.

Interesting point is the Iranian peoples were likely the first horse riding nomads(~5,000 years ago) and from there it spread east where the Turkic and Mongol nomads followed. Mongols came last because they began in the Siberian taiga mostly then came down from the valleys into the steppes. Even more interesting is that some in the Mongol group eventually may have became the Koreans and Japanese as well, but this was 3,000 years ago at least.

Back to CK3 and the nomad DLC. I've been waiting for this DLC since CK3 came out. Here we are at not quite 5 years in and we're finally seeing this come to fruition. I am ecstatic about this. To be perfectly honest, if this DLC had showcased the Khazars or Cumans or Pechenegs or Oghuz or Kara-Khanids or whoever instead of Mongols, I'd have been completely fine with it. The reason is that until this DLC arrived I had to play sedentary. That was the hard part of it all, having to play along with the castles and counts and titles and holdings. Not interested, at least not as interested as I am with nomadic life and politics and economics.

That the DLC highlighted Mongols was great for someone with my interests, but what really mattered was it was about nomadic way of life on the steppes. That was the key. That's what made my day when I first saw the announcement for a Steppe DLC.

I have to say it was confusing to see all the uproar over Turkic/Mongol favoritism. I mean, there was no nomadic part to CK3 so where was the substance to fuel it? Whatever was in the 'steppes' of CK3 at this point was really just filler that was best left alone, to be honest. CK2? Were people bashing one another on the forums over this prior? I honestly don't know. I didn't care for Horse Lords in CK2 as it was too weird, and I didn't play CK2 much to begin with.

Anyway, now that I got that off my chest, the last bit from me is this: if you want to see Turkic content--and I dearly want to see Turkic content as well--then make suggestions, offer opinions, educate the developers. They may not be very knowledgeable about nomadic history and culture. If you must complain, fine, but don't leave it at that unless you don't want anything to change or improve. Suggest, offer and educate. There have been some great suggestions here, so thank you, because I want to see Cuman and Khazar and Kara-Khanid, to name three. I know Osprey publishing has books on some of the Turkic nomads(Khazar, for instance), maybe not much but it's a start at least. The internet has a bunch of stuff but it's all over the place. If there are historical books or sites that could be of help to them, point it out. They can't read your minds but they can read your words. Make your words count.

 

[Irmingardr]

So we want Turkic flavor, but what do we want for the turks? what flavor do we want? We should make lots of suggestions for other nomads so that PDX can implement them.

the weekly dev diary actually makes it hard to do that, by the time we know what is or isn't in the dlc we can't actually give proper suggestions because its already out

 

[TheLeviathanOfLevistus]

I, too, thought that the lack of Turkic flavor in Roads to Power and Legacy of Persia would be made up in a future steppe DLC. I, too, am utterly baffled that the Steppe Nomad DLC will not add any flavor or unique content to the Turks.

As for ideas for how they could give them some flavor, here are the few things that immediately come to mind:

1. Sultanate of Rum forming in 1066 start date. The Sultanate of Rum is never formed by the AI. Hell, with the buffs to the Byzantines in Roads to Power, half of the time I see the Seljuk Empire lose its war of conquering Armenia that begins in 1066. The Sultanate of Rum needs to form in the 1066 start date if they ever want to do a First Crusade event chain, as that is what caused it.
2. Gokturk Khaganate restoration.
3. Something to do with the Bolghars. Maybe an Old Great Bulgaria restoration decision. Or decision to re-Turkify Bulgaria (similar to the celtic Reclaim Brittania decision, which lets you promote your culture in the region faster).
4. Avenge the Siege of Constantinople for the Avars?
5. Hunnic Empire restoration for Turks as well as Magyars, Scythians (Alans, Saka), and Mongolic culture characters.
6. Turkic clothing.

I’m not very familiar with Turkic history, so people more familiar with the topic could add more.

 

[aegeann13]

Even some Turkic flavor will be fine imo, there's no need to add big decisions or unique mechanics for every turkic culture at least for this dlc.
1- Few pieces of accurate clothing and armor assest for each major turkic group (Oghuz and Cuman/Kipchak for example.)
2- Map holding assets and graphics
3- Unit types and art
4- Revision of cultural traditions to represent them better.

I think even these changes will add some much to the game and can be make up to the release date for Khans of the Steppe. Nomadic government type is quite alright for every nomadic culture. Other major things can be implemented by future patches or exp packs. Maybe Khazars and Cumans can be overhauled further in the Caucasus DLC. We know PDX are planning to release one. But Oghuzes REALLY need to be overhauled in this DLC, Seljuks feel very bland and inaccurate. We at least need a frontier beys/warriors (Uc Beyi) mechanic for Anatolian Turks. It would add so much to the Byzantine/Seljuk clash in 1178.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

The Sultanate of Rum needs to form in the 1066 start date if they ever want to do a First Crusade event chain, as that is what caused it.

I think the First Crusade could be a more general event, since besides the ERE calling for help, we also have the main Seljuks denying Christians on the roads heading to Jerusalem that triggered the crusade.
Which, while the Fatimids held the city itself, they did not bar Christians from going on pilgrimage.

 

[Slime99]

I would like a realistic Magyar invasion where the Oghuz and Khazars push part of the Pechenegs to the Dnieper and then Pechenegs and Bulgarians to push the Magyars to Pannonia. For the latter there should be two wars one between the Pechenegs and the other between the Bulgarians, as the game doesn't allow separate peace treaties.

 

[aegeann13]

I have posted a suggestions thread for Turkic flavor. Please vote the thread and comment your ideas so the devs can see it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/turkic-flavor-for-khans-of-the-steppe.1731502/

 

[AHumpierRogue]

I, too, thought that the lack of Turkic flavor in Roads to Power and Legacy of Persia would be made up in a future steppe DLC. I, too, am utterly baffled that the Steppe Nomad DLC will not add any flavor or unique content to the Turks.

As for ideas for how they could give them some flavor, here are the few things that immediately come to mind:

1. Sultanate of Rum forming in 1066 start date. The Sultanate of Rum is never formed by the AI. Hell, with the buffs to the Byzantines in Roads to Power, half of the time I see the Seljuk Empire lose its war of conquering Armenia that begins in 1066. The Sultanate of Rum needs to form in the 1066 start date if they ever want to do a First Crusade event chain, as that is what caused it.
2. Gokturk Khaganate restoration.
3. Something to do with the Bolghars. Maybe an Old Great Bulgaria restoration decision. Or decision to re-Turkify Bulgaria (similar to the celtic Reclaim Brittania decision, which lets you promote your culture in the region faster).
4. Avenge the Siege of Constantinople for the Avars?
5. Hunnic Empire restoration for Turks as well as Magyars, Scythians (Alans, Saka), and Mongolic culture characters.
6. Turkic clothing.

I’m not very familiar with Turkic history, so people more familiar with the topic could add more.

I'd really rather not see meme formables like the Hunnic Empire. They should focus on history.