Industrial Capacity (IC's)

[Shadow Knight]

Have the IC distribution for nations be devised yet?

I suppose we could just take the vanilla HOI numbers and cut it by a third or something. The only worry I have is the US player rushing up the tech tree (Although I understand in 1.04 the US has to have a higher distribution of IC's into consumer goods.).

If it has not been decided upon yet we can throw down some ideas here. While some of the numbers will definitely be needed to be configured during playtesting, we can do some preliminary work in this thread.

Back to my worry about the US's industrial might. One of the reason's I wanted to implement my resource idea (See resource thread.) was to introduce events that would increase US IC's and their number of 'rubber' resources within their territories, as the war dragged on, and the Allies began to purchase military goods from the US.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

 

[StephenT]

Presumably reducing IC totals would mean editing the various provinces. Does anyone know of any industrial regions that were only developed during the 1920s/30s? The Soviet trans-Ural industrial area springs to mind; any more?

As a rough index of industrial capacity, here are the figures for steel production in 1914, 1918 and (for comparison) 1942 (millions of tons):

USA: 2.6, 44.5, 80.6
UK: 8.0, 9.7, 12.8
France: 2.8, 1.8, n/a
Russia: 4.5, 0.4, 8.1 (17.9 in 1941)

Germany: 13.8, 14.1, 28.7

Either the US production figure in 1914 was seriously affected by something or other, or they increased their production 20 times during the course of the war...

 

[Johan Elisson]

IC is discussed a little bit in the big thread.

/Johan

 

[Shadow Knight]

Originally posted by Johan Elisson
IC is discussed a little bit in the big thread.

/Johan

Ah....but that thread is sooooo huge.

 

[Johan Elisson]

The link is linked directly to the page where it is discussed if you didn't notice. I'm not that evil.

/Johan

 

[Shadow Knight]

USA
IC: 881 100
Coal: 2 158
Steel: 770
Rubber: 10
Oil: 1 506
Manpower: 366

I am unsure what some of these numbers mean.

IC: 881 100
Does this mean US IC number is 881 or 100?

 

[Johan Elisson]

The number to the left is the current IC with no changes from HoI, the right one is an abstract number with USA at 100 (%) and then the other countries IC-numbers to the right is in percent of the US number.

/Johan

 

[Shadow Knight]

USA
IC: 881 100
Coal: 2 158
Steel: 770
Rubber: 10
Oil: 1 506
Manpower: 366

Germany
IC: 362 41
Coal: 1 365
Steel: 320
Rubber: 30
Oil: 15
Manpower: 183

Austria-Hungary
IC: 230 26
Coal: 531
Steel: 195
Rubber: 0
Oil: 42
Manpower: 93

Italy
IC: 129 15
Coal: 480
Steel: 60
Rubber: 0
Oil: 0
Manpower: 83

France
IC: 188 21
Coal: 371
Steel: 325
Rubber: 135
Oil: 0
Manpower: 146

Great Britain
IC: 521 59
Coal: 1 765
Steel: 1 110
Rubber: 980
Oil: 178
Manpower: 283

Ottoman Empire
IC: 79 9
Coal: 210
Steel: 100
Rubber: 0
Oil: 229
Manpower: 14

Russia
IC: 444 50
Coal: 1 434
Steel: 850
Rubber: 0
Oil: 338
Manpower: 167

Japan
IC: 168 19
Coal: 470
Steel: 405
Rubber: 0
Oil: 10
Manpower: 82

China
IC: 123 14
Coal: 1 469
Steel: 1 210
Rubber: 20
Oil: 36
Manpower: 26


Romania
IC: 29 3
Coal: 40
Steel: 30
Rubber: 0
Oil: 80
Manpower: 7

Bulgaria
IC: 34 4
Coal: 45
Steel: 40
Rubber: 0
Oil: 0
Manpower: 8

Sweden
IC: 65 7
Coal: 120
Steel: 185
Rubber: 0
Oil: 0
Manpower: 37

Belgium
IC: 53 6
Coal: 150
Steel: 100
Rubber: 90
Oil: 0
Manpower: 13

Netherlands
IC: 73 8
Coal: 95
Steel: 100
Rubber: 600
Oil: 170
Manpower: 16

Serbia
IC: 20 2
Coal: 60
Steel: 20
Rubber: 0
Oil: 0
Manpower: 4

Greece
IC: 27 3
Coal: 75
Steel: 30
Rubber: 0
Oil: 0
Manpower: 5

Considering the changes to manpower that we are planning these numbers seem awfully low. I would suggest we double the numbers (unless there is a really good reason not too. Although playtesting might change this.), however I think the US's should only go up by 50. There was supposedly 15% unemployment at the time, and with events simulating Allied war purchases raise it by another 50 to 200.

 

[Johan Elisson]

Low? Those numbers are from the in game statistics database, and if you divide them by ten, you'll get the monthly increase in manpower. It isn't the starting manpower.

/Johan

 

[unmerged(8000)]

Your IC allocation is not historically accurate, in 1914 the national incomes of the Great POwers was such:

(in billions dollars)

US 37
Ger 12
Uk 11
Russia 7
France 6
Italy 4
Austria 3
Japan 2

I think good translation into IC of this would be

US 300 with the US increasing IC's to 600 when it joins war.
Ger 200
Uk 190
Russia 115
France 100
Italy 70
Austria 60
Japan 40

things like regular infantry should be very cheap while significant numbers of dreadnaught battleships should only be available to US, UK and GER.

these are taken form the book "the rise and fall of the great powers" an economic history of the modern world.

Cheers, Bart

 

[Allenby]

Surely any figures of Britain's Industrial Capacity should consider Australia, New Zealand and Canada which were also fairly industrialised at the time.

 

[unmerged(8000)]

Yes the figre would almost certainly be for whole empire, my gues would be about 20 ic's from empire and rest be British.

 

[unmerged(15579)]

This is slightly off the topic.... but besides the option of "IC improvement" and "INF Improvement: what else do you plan to add. (Land and coastal fort., but what would you do to replace AA)?

 

[Allenby]

hmm...if it hasn't been decided then perhaps those 'Big Bertha' artillery guns.

 

[StephenT]

Why does AA need replacing? Flak batteries were yet another of the great inventions of WW1.

South-East England had 500 AA guns, 700 searchlights and 10 separate networks of barrage balloons stretching for 51 miles around London by 1918...

 

[unmerged(14189)]

AA Guns

AA guns do not need redone. As said by Stephen T they were invented during the war. Britain mainly was the one to use them with many hundreds of them and each situated so that the firing from one would alert the next battery subsequently going on down the line. This system was primitive yet still highly effective against German Zeppelin's and Gotha's. The French too used them even up at the front, and shot down many fighters and reconaissance aircraft. So all in all AAG should stay in the game most definitley, but I would love to hear how trenches are going to be modeled if anyone knows. TY.

 

[unmerged(17312)]

Hi there. This is my first time posting a message on the Great War board, so I hope you don't mind my suggestions. I've been reading the posts over the past few days and I think you are all doing an amazing job. Sounds like the mod will be great fun.

Anyway, there were a couple of things I wanted to ask. Basically are the resources going to be kept the same or altered to reflect their ability in 1914? For example, there was virtually no oil being produced in Iraq at this time.

Also are the rates for using resourced going to be changed? I believe each IC uses 2 coal, 1 steel and 1/2 rubber per day. However, if the industrial techs are changed, then there should be no oil-rubber conversion technology. So maybe rubber requirements should be reduced to prevent crippling too many econimies? Something like 1/4 for every IC per day perhaps.

Once again great work and I hope you don;t mind my input.

 

[Shadow Knight]

No problem, welcome to the board. I myself was a long time lurker until The Great War got its own forum and I starting ranting and offering my suggestions.

I think initially the resources might be kept the same and later releases toning them down, but only Johan Elisson truly knows. If you are willing to undertake the adjusting of the resources yourself you are more than welcome to.

As for conversion techs I believe that everyone is going to be given 1-1 conversion for both oil and rubber. I believe this is going to be for convience, but for the life of me I cannot remember the exact reason Elisson told me. You might want to check the resources thread in the sub-forum, I think his reasoning is in there.

But feel free to contribute anything, all is welcome.

 

[Bossemanden]

The general trend in this mod seems to be scaling down the numbers in comparison to vanilla HOI. This might give you problems with very low numbers that doesnt differentiate well. Instead you should (IMO) decide where the largest industrial production (or soft-attack or whatever) is and then use a reasonably high figure to describe it. Then you can scale downwards as appropriate.

It would be a problem if all divisions for example had a soft attack of 1 and for every new tech a +1. This would in the space of a short time lead to invincible armies compared to earlier divisions. AFAIK the weapons development was not that fast.

Hmm this is becoming a rant... oh well

Start with say 40 or 50 IC as max in the most productive areas. As for infantry start with maybe 4 or 5 in soft attack (and 25-30 deff. leading to loong battles).

Easy for me to critizice. Hopefully no harm done

 

[Shadow Knight]

I don't suppose there is a kind soul out there who would like to tally up the Russian IC (see below) and cut it appropriately by a third?


Viipuri 1
Helsinki 20
Turku 8
Tampere 1
Pori 5
Vaasa 5
Oulu 3
Archangelsk 1
Murmansk 2
Petrozavsdsk 1
Ustinov 2
Kazan 3
Kirov 7
Volgoda 1
Seinajoki 1
St. Petersburg (Leningrad) 25
Novgorod 5
Borovotji 1
Bezjetsk 3
Velikijelvki 2
Pskov 1
Tallinn 6
Riga 7
Vitebsk 1
Mogiljov 1
Bobrujsk 1
Minsk 8
Grodno 2
Wilno 3
Siavliai 2
Davgavpils 2
Liepaja 7
Kaunas 5
Suwalki 1
Torun 1
Bialystok 2
Ostroleka 2
Brzesc Nad 2
Bugiem 2
Pinsk 2
Rowne 2
Sandomierz 1
Lublin 4
Warszawa 19
Radom 5
Lodz 5
Czestochowa 2
Krakow 5
Mozyr 1
Zjitomir 1
Vinnytsa 3
Beltsy 2
Chisinau 2
Kotovsk 1
Kirovograd 1
Dnepropetrovsk 4
Odessa 6
Sevastopol 6
Stalino 3
Donetsk 6
Rostov 6
Millerovo 1
Stary Oskol 1
Kharkov 6
Kiev 7
Chernigov 3
Kursk 2
Bryansk 1
Gomel 1
Smolensk 6
Kaluga 1
Tula 1
Ryazan 2
Moscow 25
Kalinn 5
Rybinsk 3
Nizjnij Novgorod 1
Lipetsk 1
Voronezh 2
Tambov 1
Saratov 6
(Stalingrad) 15
Krasnodor 1
Majkop 5
Stravopol 3
Batumi 1
Kars 1
Tblisi 3
Jerevan 1
Krovabad 4
Baku 7
Groznyj 1
Serov 3
Pervouralsk 1
Molotov 1
Tjumen 2
Sverdlovsk 5
Tjeljabinsk 1
Magnitogorsk 3
Chkalov 1
Ufa 3
Kujbysjev 1
Uralsk 1
Volzjskij 1
Novy Uzen 2
Astrakhan 5
Samarkand 3
Tasjkent 5
Alma-Ata 3
Kustanaj 1
Koktjetav 1
Kurgan 1
Isjim 2
Petropavlosvsk 5
Omsk 5
Semiplatinsk 4
Novosibirsk 1
Tomsk 1
Kyzyl 5
Irkutsk 6
Ust-Kut 3
Ulan-Ude 3
Borzja 1
Jakutsk 3
Blagovesjtjensk 1
Komsomolsk-Na-Amore 2
Chabarovsk 1
Ulunga 3
Dalnevetjensk 1
Dalnegorsk 3
Spassk Dalnij 1
Nachodka 1
Vladivostok 2
Petropavlosvsk 5
Kamtjatskij 1
Commodore 1