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Industrial Capacity (IC's)

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1913 steel production (millions of tons)
US - 31.8
GB - 7.7
Germany - 17.6
France - 4.6
Austria-Hungary - 2.6
Russia - 4.8
Japan - .25
Italy - .93

Looks like Germany should be a formidable steel producer, even more impressive than Britain.

However if you load up a German game you'll find its running a steel deficit - they need 300 ish but only produce 200 ish.

I propose boosting steel production in Strasbourg and Colmar, as well as Silesia where I believe iron mines existed.
 
ptan I hearby annoint you my lieutenant of IC's. All rights and priveledges that come with such rank are now yours. As I said for the smaller countries I am content to just leave them as in standard HOI, they are playable but not super powerful.
 
Gwalcmai said:
I think Peter the Great actually named the city in western fashion from the start, it was never called Petrograd, always St. Petersburg.

We can rename it in the province.csv, it just won't show on the map. But at least searches and the log would be more accurate.
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St. Petersburg was renamed Petrograd in 1914 as an anti-German patriotic gesture. While renaming it in province.csv is tempting, I'd be concerned that it would cause confusion - the province would have different names on the map and in the search function, and people who weren't aware of this historical fact would have endless problems.

Of course if you could change the map there's be loads more candidates to be changed, with Stalingrad being the most obvious.
 
I think some of those minors might actually profit from a reduction of IC. Not the massive slash that those numbers would warrant, but cutting them by 1/3 would probably do them good. There's a good deal of countries in standard HOi that just can't possibly manage their economy.

Case study : Portugal, with the resources it gets, can, by trading very carefully, maintain 17-19 IC. It has (depending on diff level) IC in the mid to high 20s (32 in very easy, 27 in Normal). The AI doesn't deactivate some IC (by upgrades or just not using it) and the economy "crashes" for lack of resources.
 
Germany produced alot of steel for the same reason that Luxembourg is a top ten steel producer today (to my most recent info). they imported a LOT of iron from other countries, at this time Sweden, Russia, and East Europe- and turned it into completed steel. so while they made a lot of steel, they produced much less iron.

Still, the economic system in HOI is messed up anyway, so it isn't an exact science. Buying excess resources with anything other than resources is impossible (no exchanges of capital) so the whole economic system can be bullshat anyway a player wants.

Also, you have to consider the disparity of value between agricultural and industrial economic output. Italy has a low value on its 'real' economic value because agricultural products are of low monetary value- had food been worth equal as industrial products then Italy's 'real' value would double.
Portugal, the Balkans, and South America are exactly the same. They seem 'inflated' with IC- but IC is not defined in any specific way. So B.S. away!
 
ptan54 said:
And what would such rights and privileges be?
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First, you get to (unless Allenby or myself have said otherwise or need to correct you) get too make bold pronouncements on the way IC's should be handled. Thus those numbers you came up with will be 'the numbers' we are going with, although a few of those will need to be increased.

Namely these:

Bulgaria = 450*(1/138) = 3.26
Denmark = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Finland = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Greece = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Serbia = 450*(1/138) = 3.26
Netherlands = 450*(4/138) = 13.04
Norway = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Portugal = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Roumania = 450*(2/138) = 6.52

Second, you get a fancy title....which you can make up (just don't get above yourself). Well that concludes your rights and priveledges.

Next, Gwalcmai's concern. I can see where you are coming from, if we reduce some of the minors (some like Bulgaria and Romania might need to be increased) it might allow a greater amount of resources on the WM in addition to making those country's industry actually work.
 
The WM needs to be kicked in the butt indeed. I would suggest beefing up the rubber output of the Belgian and French Congo, while at the same time starting Belgium with a convoy fleet of about 30 (if not already implemented). This way, the Belgians will trade more rubber on the world market, making it so there is more than 150 available to all.
Also, Italy needs a convoy fleet to start- losing troops to starvation is not cool.
 
Shadow Knight said:
First, you get to (unless Allenby or myself have said otherwise or need to correct you) get too make bold pronouncements on the way IC's should be handled. Thus those numbers you came up with will be 'the numbers' we are going with, although a few of those will need to be increased.

Namely these:

Bulgaria = 450*(1/138) = 3.26
Denmark = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Finland = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Greece = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Serbia = 450*(1/138) = 3.26
Netherlands = 450*(4/138) = 13.04
Norway = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Portugal = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Roumania = 450*(2/138) = 6.52

Second, you get a fancy title....which you can make up (just don't get above yourself). Well that concludes your rights and priveledges.

Next, Gwalcmai's concern. I can see where you are coming from, if we reduce some of the minors (some like Bulgaria and Romania might need to be increased) it might allow a greater amount of resources on the WM in addition to making those country's industry actually work.
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These countries (except Netherlands) had virtually no industry in HOI terms by 1914. They do have however agricultural economy, that allows them to maintain their armies.
 
As the newly appointed Grand Duke of the ICs, I herewith make the following proclamation for German IC.

Germany starts with 363 IC. We will give them Kolding in 1.03, which has 5 IC. Somehow in the game this tallies up to 365??? Anyhow the target was to get them to 450 IC (ish).

Here are the changes I made to Germany's provinces (new figures in brackets) -
555 Strasbourg +6 IC (9), +80 steel (160), +80 coal (160) Note: Added Metz's IC, coal and steel to this province since Metz was German in 1914.
558 Koln +15 IC (30), +50 steel (80)
559 Essen +10 IC (30), +40 steel (80)
560 Saarbrucken +20 IC (30)
582 Munster +20 IC (30)
604 Dresden +7 IC (14)
605 Leipzig +7 IC (15)

Total increase in IC: 85
Total increase in coal production: 80
Total increase in steel production: 170

I would also like to remove the beaches in Konigsberg, Elbing and Rostock, keeping the existing one in Hamburg. This would assist the AI so it doesnt have to garrison so many beaches with limited units in 1914, and takes away the rather unrealistic Operation Landing in Prussia directly. I havent made these changes yet however, and would like the team's opinion on it.

More IC changes for Austria and Russia coming up soon.
 
ptan54 said:
Germany starts with 363 IC. We will give them Kolding in 1.03, which has 5 IC. Somehow in the game this tallies up to 365???
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I'm guessing you gave them control but didn't make it a national province. You only get full IC from national provinces, owned provinces give you 1/3 and controlled provinces 1/5. (Or something like that, numbers from memory)
 
I would strip all but one IC per colony from Germany. Put one in Togo, one in Dar-es-Saleem, and one in Windhoek.
 
ptan54 said:
I would also like to remove the beaches in Konigsberg, Elbing and Rostock, keeping the existing one in Hamburg. This would assist the AI so it doesnt have to garrison so many beaches with limited units in 1914, and takes away the rather unrealistic Operation Landing in Prussia directly.
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Is that all of Germany's Baltic beaches? I think that would be going too far; in both world wars there were slightly nutty British plans (Jackie Fisher's in WW1, Winston Churchill's in WW2) to break through into the Baltic and land troops on the North German coast.
 
StephenT said:
Is that all of Germany's Baltic beaches? I think that would be going too far; in both world wars there were slightly nutty British plans (Jackie Fisher's in WW1, Winston Churchill's in WW2) to break through into the Baltic and land troops on the North German coast.
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Lord Fisher's belief that the army was a 'projectile' to be fired by the Royal Navy led Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson to propose plans in 1911 that the Royal Navy secure control of the Baltic (somehow) and land the BEF in Pomerania so that it could threaten Berlin :wacko:

Churchill's idea was that the British Army would seize Schleswig-Holstein, thus allowing the Royal Navy to enter the Baltic, whereby it would transport a Russian army to the German coast where it would march on Berlin. Instead, he opted for the Dardanelles scheme which was much more practical. :D

The beaches must stay so that players can try and simulate these far fetched ideas.
 
Allenby said:
Lord Fisher's belief that the army was a 'projectile' to be fired by the Royal Navy led Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson to propose plans in 1911 that the Royal Navy secure control of the Baltic (somehow) and land the BEF in Pomerania so that it could threaten Berlin :wacko:

Churchill's idea was that the British Army would seize Schleswig-Holstein, thus allowing the Royal Navy to enter the Baltic, whereby it would transport a Russian army to the German coast where it would march on Berlin. Instead, he opted for the Dardanelles scheme which was much more practical. :D

The beaches must stay so that players can try and simulate these far fetched ideas.
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I'm not sure Fisher's ideas were so far fetched, he did intend that the German fleet be either defeated or failing that mined into their ports then the Grand Fleet together with the Fisher's invasion ships would move into the Baltic and meet up with the Russian fleet and together invade.

The big problem was that it was an all or nothing strategy, the sort Fisher so loved devising.
Without defeating the HSF it was probably impossible, as it's not as if the Germans did not understand minesweeping.
Following Jutland there was a small window when such an operation could have taken place, however Fisher was no longer at the Admiralty and no one wished to revive his plan, whether the British and Russian armies could have successfully mounted such an operation is highly doubtful.
 
Wasn't it Bismarck who said that if the British army did invade Pomerania, he would send the police to arrest them? :)

Which does imply that such schemes had been suggested even before 1890...
 
Here are the changes for Russia:
638 Krakow -3 = 2
639 Lodz -3 = 2
640 Radom -3 = 2
643 Warszawa -14 = 5
705 Turku -6 = 2
706 Helsinki -8 = 2
707 Talinn -6 = 4
708 Rezekne -3 = 2
709 Riga -5 = 2
712 Liepaja -5 = 2
715 Kaunas -5 = 2
723 Lublin -3 = 1
764 Odessa -3 = 3
778 Minsk -6 = 2
781 Smolensk CS
784 Vitebsk CS
798 Vaasa -4 = 1
800 Pori -4 = 1
844 Bezjetsk CS
851 Lipetsk CS
852 Kaluga CS
853 Tula CS
857 Kharkov -3 = 3
861 Rostov -4 = 3
862 Sevastopol -3 = 3
864 Donetsk -3 = 3
865 Dnepropetrovsk -2 = 2
1222 Majkop -3 = 2
1225 Stalingrad -12 = 3
1228 Tambov CS
1237 Kirov -5 = 2
1240 Molotov -4 = 1 AND add INFRA
1248 Saratov -4 = 2
1250 Uralsk INFRA
1254 Astrakhan -3 = 2
1359 Baku -4 = 3
1371 Magnitogorsk -2 = 1
1374 Ufa -2 = 1
1383 Serov -2 = 1
1389 Barabinsk -3 = 1
1392 Petropavlovsk -3 = 2
1393 Omsk -1 = 4
1422 Samarkand -2 = 1
1423 Tashkent -4 = 1
1430 Alma Ata -2 = 1
1515 Semipalatinsk -3 = 1
1522 Novosibirsk -4 = 1
1533 Ulan Ude -2 = 1
1534 Kyzyl -4 =1
1535 Irkutsk -4 = 2
1633 Tjuta INFRA
1652 Ulunga -2 = 1
1653 Dalnegorsk -2 = 1
1662 Nachodkha -3 = 2
1663 Vladivostok -8 = 2
1843 Petropavlovsk Kamtjatskij -4 =1
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Infra means I boosted to 40
CS means I made total production 50 coal 25 steel
Total additional coal: 350
Total additional steel: 175
Total reduction in IC: 508 to 320, a reduction of 188
NOTE: made a mistake in my editing somewhere and Russia now has 341 IC, which isnt that far off and would cripple Russia less.....
 
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Ptan those numbers look fine. My only suggestion is that for those capital citites and territories of the possible breakaway countries be able to support those countries that might arise.
 
Made further infra boosts to Russian provinces:

842 Kostroma
1235 Saransk
1239 Ustinov
1241 Kazan
1245 Stalinsk
1252 Guryev
1366 Novy Ozen
1369 Akljubinsk
1370 Zjamansov
1375 Nizjnij Tagil
1397 Akmolinsk
1398 Aralsk
1399 Dzjekknzgan
1425 Karaganda
1426 Kzyl Orda
1429 Ajaguz
1430 Alma Ata
1515 Semopalatinsk
1519 Ongadij
1526 Kosj Agatj
1534 Kyzyl
Click to expand...
These have been boosted to 40-50, so that troops can reach victory point provinces and the Russian civil war doesnt drag on forever.

Here is a run-down of the Russian released countries:

Belarus: 6 IC
Estonia: 4 IC
Lithuania: 15 IC
Latvia: 7 IC
Finland: 20 IC
Makhnovschina: 11 IC
Ukraine (excludes Makhnovschina): 24 IC
Armenia: 2 IC (they get annexed by Ottomans)
Azerbaijan: 7 IC (they get annexed by Ottomans)
Georgia: 4 IC
Siberia: 48 IC
Soviet Russia: 136 IC

All of these, except for Siberia and Soviet Russia (only after my alterations to coal and steel production though) suffer from a lack of resources. Resource boosts are as follows (everything up to 30 coal 15 steel):
778 Minsk (Belarus)
779 Mogiljov (Belarus)
707 Talinn (Estonia)
715 Kaunas (Lithuania)
721 Pinsk (Lithuania)
709 Riga (Latvia)
813 Oulu (Finland)
798 Vaasa (Finland)
706 Helsinki (Finland) (50 coal 25 steel)
863 Stalino (Makhno/Ukraine)
865 Dnepopetrovsk (Makhno/Ukraine) (100 coal boost only)
857 Kharkov (Makhno/Ukraine) (100 coal boost only)
766 Vinnytsa (50 each) (Ukraine)
770 Kirovagrad (50 each) (Ukraine)
1260 Jerevan (Armenia)
1360 Kirovabad (Azerbaijan)
1258 Tbilsi (Georgia)
Click to expand...

Crucially, NONE of these newly independent countries can convert coal to oil, or oil to rubber. The conversion ratio is zero. Someone needs to go to the industry tech tree to add the 1:1 ratios in the very first tech so everyone can convert without any problems.
 
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