Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Industrial Capacity (IC's)

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Ask and ye shall receive... :)

I just noticed something, the Hungarian population is listed too in my source. At 21.410k. Maybe A-H is Austria 29M + Hungary 21M, hence Ellsson's 52M?
 
Last edited:
I've put a revised version of province.csv here.

This has reduced ICs for Russia (down 120) and Austria-Hungary (down 43). The exact breakdown is as follows:
Code: 
Province, Name, Original IC, New IC, Reduction
638	Krakow		5	4	-1
639	Lodz		5	4	-1
640	Radom		5	4	-1
643	Warszawa	19	10	-9
705	Turku		8	4	-4
706	Helsinki	10	5	-5
707	Tallinn		10	5	-5
708	Rezekne		5	3	-2
709	Riga		7	6	-1
712	Liepaja		7	4	-3
715	Kaunas		5	4	-1
719	Rowne		2	1	-1
721	Pinsk		2	1	-1
723	Lublin		4	3	-1
764	Odessa		6	5	-1
766	Vinnitsya	3	2	-1
775	Kiev		7	6	-1
776	Chernigov	3	2	-1
778	Minsk		8	5	-3
781	Smolensk	6	5	-1
798	Vaasa		5	2	-3
800	Pori		5	3	-2
813	Oulu		3	2	-1
823	Murmansk	2	1	-1
839	Archangelsk	3	1	-2
844	Bezjatsk	3	2	-1
845	Kalinin		5	4	-1
847	Vladimir	3	2	-1
848	Rybinsk		3	2	-1
850	Niz.Novgorod	4	3	-1
857	Kharkov		6	5	-1
861	Rostov		6	5	-1
862	Sevastopol	6	5	-1
863	Stalino		3	1	-2
864	Donestsk	6	4	-2
865	Dnepropetrovsk	4	3	-1
1225	Stalingrad	15	10	-5
1227	Voronezh	3	2	-1
1237	Kirov		7	4	-3
1239	Ustinov		2	1	-1
1240	Molotov		5	3	-2
1248	Saratov		6	5	-1
1254	Astrakhan	5	4	-1
1256	Stavropol	3	2	-1
1359	Baku		7	5	-2
1360	Kirovabad	4	3	-1
1366	Novy Uzen	2	1	-1
1371	Magnitogorsk	3	0	-3
1374	Ufa		3	2	-1
1377	Sverdlovsk	5	4	-1
1379	Tjumen		2	1	-1
1383	Serov		3	2	-1
1389	Barabinsk	4	3	-1
1391	Isjim		2	1	-1
1392	Petropavlovsk	5	4	-1
1423	Tasjkent	5	4	-1
1430	Alma-Ata	3	2	-1
1515	Semipalatinsk	4	3	-1
1533	Ulan-Ude	3	1	-2
1534	Kyzyl		5	2	-3
1535	Irkutsk		6	4	-2
1538	Usk-Kut		3	1	-2
1636	Jakulsk		3	2	-1
1645	Komsomolsk	2	1	-1
1652	Ulinga		3	2	-1
1653	Dalnegorsk	3	2	-1
1662	Nachodka	5	3	-2
1663	Vladivostok	10	5	-5
1843	Petrop'sk-Kam.	5	3	-2


744	Mostar		3	2	-1
739	Timisoara	3	2	-1
563	Bolzano		3	2	-1
730	Cluj-Napoca	2	1	-1
742	Banja Luka	2	1	-1
759	Brasov		2	1	-1
725	Lwow		4	3	-1
570	Ljubljana	5	3	-2
745	Sarajevo	5	3	-2
624	Zagreb		5	3	-2
612	Plzen		8	6	-2
610	Salzburg	8	5	-3
619	Slavkov		8	5	-3
615	Praha		20	15	-5
633	Budapest	22	12	-10
621	Wien		12	10	-2
747	Dubrovnik	2	1	-1
726	Munkacs		2	1	-1
724	Przemysl	3	2	-1
635	Cieszyn		7	5	-2
I concentrated the reductions on non-national provinces, with nothing (except Magnitogorsk) reduced to zero. For Russia, I left Petrograd and Moskva untouched to represent their dominance of the economy; for Austria-Hungary, I gave Budapest a bigger reduction - Hungary was agricultural in those days - so that Praha (the Skoda factories) is the centre of the Dual Monarchy's industrial base.

If anybody wants to make further changes go ahead. :)
 
Just thought I'd add a note here.

I've managed finally to obtain Bairoch's figures on industrial capacity from the 11th Issue of the Journal of European Economic History (1981), and it gives some very nice detailed figures for both 1913 and 1938. Not sure if they are any use to you chaps being so far along already, but I thought I would post them here anyway.

The figures are based on the averaged index of industrial production, their baseline is the UK production in 1900 which is assumed to equal 100.

Industrial Powers in 1913

Europe

Austro-Hungary = 35 (estimated as figures for component parts are given)
Belgium = 16
France = 57
Germany = 138
Italy = 23
Spain = 11
Sweden = 9
Switzerland = 8
UK = 127
Russia = 77

Bulgaria = 1
Denmark = 2
Finland = 2
Greece = 2
Serbia = 1
Netherlands = 4
Norway = 2
Portugal = 2
Roumania = 2

Americas

Canada = 9
USA = 298
Brazil = 4
Mexico = 3

Asia

China = 33
Japan = 25
India = 13

Africa

South Africa = 1

Oceana

Australia = 1

Non Industrial Nations

Global total for all non industrial nations = 70
 
Judging from this, British IC is too high.

Granted we are doing this as "British Empire" but Canada, Australia, Africa and India were relatively unindustrialised.

Right now, Germany IC = 363 (most of this in Germany itself so I assume this to be the accurate base from which to do my proceeding calculations)
(British IC = 638)

Using these above stats: Australia 1, Canada 9, India 13, South Africa 1, Britain 127.
Total British Empire = 151
Germany = 138

Hence British IC should be 363*(151/138) = 397.20

This would make it difficult for the British player to build up loads of battleships and infantry at the same time.

USA = 298, so ICs = 363*(298/138) = 783.87. Currently US ICs are in the 1000s.

France = 363*(57/138) = 150

Austria = 363*(35/138) = 92.07

Russia = 363*(77/138) = 202.54!!!!! (Quite shockingly low but will help stop super Russia)

Italy = 363*(23/138) = 60.5 HA!

China = 363*(33/138) = 86.80

Japan = 363*(25/138) = 65.76
 
Don't forget that figure for "non-industrialised nations" = 70. I suspect that you could include 50-60 of that total in Britain's ICs, to represent the rest of the Empire and also the "informal empire" (countries notionally independent but economically satellites of Britain - most of South America would be in this category in 1914).

Also, rather than reducing almost everybody else, you might want to consider boosting Germany's ICs somewhat - after all, their score in HoI represents the effects of defeat in WW1, occupation of the Rheinland by France, hyper-inflation, and the Great Depression...

As a final note, I suspect that Paradox gave small independent countries a boost to their ICs to make them playable. TGW countries that amalgamate several HoI nations (Britain, Russia, Austria-Hungary) will therefore have a disproportionate number of these bonus points.
 
Way to go Allenby, been waiting for numbers like that for a while.

I must contemplate on these numbers before I make 'a bold pronouncement on high' as the appointed chief of IC's, Resources, and VP's. However the numbers ptan has looks pretty good so far, but we may still need to artificially inflate a few countries, like Bulgaria, to make the gameplay flow better.
 
Shadow Knight said:
Way to go Allenby, been waiting for numbers like that for a while.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Although it wasn't me, I'll take the credit. ;)
 
Allenby said:
Thanks! Although it wasn't me, I'll take the credit. ;)
Click to expand...

Lol,

Well you've done an awful lot you do deserve credit for, so I can forgive that :rolleyes:
 
Alright, including 50 as informal empire sounds OK.

I like Stephen's suggestion that German IC should be higher. The Kaiserreich was a lot more prosperous than 1936 Germany.

German IC will be raised from 363 to 450 and we base all other figures relative to this.

If we go down this route we will have the following figures:

New British IC should be 450*(201/138) = 655.43 (versus 638 - we were pretty close)

USA = 298, so ICs = 450*(298/138) = 971.74 (versus 1075, we want to dumb them down a bit?)

France = 450*(57/138) = 185.87 (versus 192 - close)

Austria = 450*(35/138) = 114.13 (versus 269 - Jesus, why do we have super Austria in HOI, I thought this was a Victoria problem!)
NOTE: For gameplay reasons lets raise it a tiny bit to 130?

Russia = 450*(77/138) = 251.09 (versus 508 - this ain't the USSR)
NOTE: I do think 250 is too harsh. 300 is more appropriate.

Italy = 450*(23/138) = 75.00 (versus 148 - Italy are pretty shit as it is though)
NOTE: Relative to Austria they are worse off so let's make them 100?

China = 450*(33/138) = 107.61 (versus 121 - we were pretty close)

Japan = 450*(25/138) = 81.52 (versus 184 - this would give Japan a reason to want to expand if their ICs are shit)
NOTE: Increase to 100 to make it more playable?
 
Last edited:
Allenby said:
Thanks! Although it wasn't me, I'll take the credit. ;)
Click to expand...

Whoops...sorry Valisk. I just saw that mighty UnionJack and assumed because of Allenby's high spam rate that it was him. :)
 
Shadow Knight said:
Whoops...sorry Valisk. I just saw that mighty UnionJack and assumed because of Allenby's high spam rate that it was him. :)
Click to expand...

:cool:

Are these IC figures acceptable, Resource/Province/IC Tsar?
 
Shadow Knight said:
Whoops...sorry Valisk. I just saw that mighty UnionJack and assumed because of Allenby's high spam rate that it was him. :)
Click to expand...
:rofl:

Thats cool ;)
 
Austria-Hungary, despite fighting with the Ottomans to be the second weakest nation in Europe- was actually quite industrialized. It would have been much more powerful had its individual peoples gotten along- ever.

The Czechs, Slovaks, Romanians and others would sit on thier hands when asked to do something because they felt that they were ignored politically by the Austrians and Magyars. There's a reason that Czechoslovakia, Poland and other breakaway republics did so well after the great War.

Edit: The Russian numbers include Siberians and other "northern"(for lack of a better term) peoples in the population index, but they did little for the economy except repair the trans-siberian on occassion. So the Russian numbers a tich deflated (and the serfs didn't make shit in cash)
 
Allenby said:
:cool:

Are these IC figures acceptable, Resource/Province/IC Tsar?
Click to expand...

I am like what I am seeing from ptan. I wonder if he would be so kind as to do the whole list... :D (However, those minor countries out there, barring the more important ones, should just be left alone so they can be somewhat viable.)

I would increase Austria to 150 though, as Junkyard_Pope says Austria-Hungry actually had one of the stronger economies in Europe. We can always lower it back down if needs be. For Italy 100 is fine, we can alter it later if it proves to be too low.

As for Russia I agree with 300, because that would be precisely my 1/3 cut I proposed a long time ago. Note with Russia there should only be a few provinces with 1 or 2 IC's (none in places with infra. less than 34), most of the IC's should be concentrated i(n 10 or more IC's per province) in a few provinces. Namely Moscow, Petrograd, 'Stalingrad', and the capitals of the possible breakaway republics (or puppets however you want to look at it). Once those are taken care of we can give a few of the other important cities 5 IC's or more.
 
Can't we rename Leningrad to Petrograd on the map? I wish we could...

P.S. When did they start calling Petrograd 'Saint Petersberg' in western Europe?
 
Hey Junkyard Pope, is your name derived from the novel the Fan Man? I just read that book, cool book.

Regarding the topic of this thread... I still think that Russia should get dissent hits throuhgout the war to screw their IC over, that way you can still have them start with fairly high IC -- just that they can't tap all of it.
 
Sadly Junkyard_Pope to do any changes to the map would require a 100MB download just to fix the map...it is one of the reason's why Paradox never does map changes after a game is released.
 
I think Peter the Great actually named the city in western fashion from the start, it was never called Petrograd, always St. Petersburg.

We can rename it in the province.csv, it just won't show on the map. But at least searches and the log would be more accurate.
 
British = 450*(201/138) = 655.43 (versus 638 - we were pretty close)

USA = 450*(298/138) = 971.74 (versus 1075, we want to dumb them down a bit?)

France = 450*(57/138) = 185.87 (versus 192 - close)

Austria = 450*(35/138) = 114.13 (versus 269 - Jesus, why do we have super Austria in HOI, I thought this was a Victoria problem!)
NOTE: For gameplay reasons lets raise it a tiny bit to 130?

Russia = 450*(77/138) = 251.09 (versus 508 - this ain't the USSR)
NOTE: I do think 250 is too harsh. 300 is more appropriate.

Italy = 450*(23/138) = 75.00 (versus 148 - Italy are pretty shit as it is though)
NOTE: Relative to Austria they are worse off so let's make them 100?

China = 450*(33/138) = 107.61 (versus 121 - we were pretty close)

Japan = 450*(25/138) = 81.52 (versus 184 - this would give Japan a reason to want to expand if their ICs are shit)
NOTE: Increase to 100 to make it more playable?

Belgium = 450*(16/138) = 52.17 (sounds about right)
Spain = 450*(11/138) = 35.87 (boost to 40)
Sweden = 450*(9/138) = 29.35 (boost to 40)
Switzerland = 450*(8/138) = 26.09 (boost to 40)

------------------------------------------------------------------
And now for the really sad ones:
Bulgaria = 450*(1/138) = 3.26 (HAHAHAHAHA!!!)
Denmark = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Finland = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Greece = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Serbia = 450*(1/138) = 3.26
Netherlands = 450*(4/138) = 13.04
Norway = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Portugal = 450*(2/138) = 6.52
Roumania = 450*(2/138) = 6.52

For these countries maybe we should just keep what we have, or boost it up to 30 to make things managable.

NOTE: Some people think we should keep Austria pretty high. I strongly disagree, if France's IC is 185 or so how on earth could Austria's be in the 200s???? Also no stats for Ottoman Empire here, but as my game isnt loading I cannot remember the exact ICs although I remember them having 110 ish. This should be reduced to 90, as they were certainly worse than Italy and Austria.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back