How would you rewrite this post to include the word "race" without changing its meaning?
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Well, if it is not species, then why does it say "7 playable species" on the website???? That's a quote, really, on Paradox's own game site. Just saying...
Because there are seven predetermined playable species.
But general there are more randomised species than seven and you can even create your own species. There are not 'seven species' but many more species.
I just smell DLC-overload all over this. They will start with offering seven playable, then entice everyone to unlock more based on DLC after DLC. I would love to hear from the Devs otherwise, but I am betting that is what they are planning. Frankly, I think 7 is an abyssmally low number of playable species to start the game with, and the mechanic of customizable playable species I have found to be an overdone mechanic in almost every game since MOO, and usually feels like a tedious and limiting consolation prize for true diverse playability. I will be watching this develop, but so far I am feeling somewhat disenchanted.
I see no problem with new phenotype DLCs. That would be similiar to face packs in CK. 2 Dollar/Euro for walrus alien phenotypes of exemple.
And you misunderstand it I think. There are seven phenotypes. And for each phenotype there is a predetermined race to start as. All other races on the map are completelly random. Or you can make your own custom one. There is no unplayable race/phenotype.
Why would you unlock more xenoraces with DLC.
Pick humans and cleanse the universe!
Pick humans and cleanse the universe!
There are still only 7 playable factions, regardless of how people want to define phenotype or species. Frankly as someone who has a biology background, phenotype is a physical manifestation of genotype, It has little or nothing to do with species, which often can have multiple pheotypes represented within (i.e. eyecolor variations within the species homo sapiens: blue eyed humans are not different species than brown eyed humans). I think Genus or Family or some other classification would make more sense than phenotype here. But whatever, the point is 7 and a customization within the 7 groups is still only 7 and variation of those 7.
Of course. But they have together over hundreds of portraits. It's not like they need one portrait for every phenotyp/species, but many for the characters. Currently seven phenotypes/races would be similiar to 7 face packs on CK2. It's a lot of work to create them and I can understand that Paradox don't has the time/ressources to make many many more portraits. Especially since this time they are all handdrawn (they looks so) and not piece by piece like in CK2.
That's also the reason why I would understand new DLC phenotypes. It's a lot of work to do around 50-100 handdrawn portraits for a new phenotype. And the artists want money for their work too.
Would it, though? A defining point of the current taxonomy system is that it relies, at least in part, on a common ancestor, and one factor of the distance between two species taxonomically speaking is their distance to the common ancestor. Besides, phenotype isn't entirely incorrect. Indeed, when you are only considering alien species in the scope of "mammalian, humanoid, reptilian" then their phenotype (the manifestation of their genes) is "mammalian, humanoid or reptilian." It's, at least in part, about context.
So here's what we know about species creation, and what we can deduce from it, and hopefully a little bit about how it works.
What we know
There are six phenotypes - So given the rest of the paragraph and the other information we have available what we can see is that there are six preset species, each falls into one of the phenotypes, while the phenotypes also house all the aesthetic looks for customization, and species creation.
Assumed Six Phenotypes
Mammal (Eg Human) - Including high and low order
Reptilian
Avian
Insectoid
Fungus/plant
Aquatic derived thing
Then we would have a species that fits into roughly each of these catagories.
We also know that there are around 100 aesthetic looks (RPS article) now, my assumption given the Ck2 esque portraits is each aesthetic look belongs to a phenotype, and that each aesthetic look is modular and has variations on it, similar to how various people of the same culture/facepack in ck2 look different. So think of each of those 100 as different culture groups portraits in ck2, and then each one belongs to a phenotype.
Species creation
We also know that species can be custom made at the beginning of a game to be played with, and are also randomly generated to populate the world. Now we also know that species, and characters have traits, and ethics. So now for assumption.
Traits
I propose that traits are genetic, which are locked and unlocked based upon phenotype, eg something in the Aquatic group, cant get a positive Genetic-Trait (hence) and each race is assigned a number of these traits, or if you are creating a species you picked them.
Ethics
Ethics which were described as being very like national values in V2 I believe, will be the basis for the social outlook of your civilization, expansionist, order, isolationist so forth and will determine what types of government that race has access to. Ethic or social traits, will be broad but will also determine what specific character traits leaders might get in the future, an expansionist race might get characters with character traits better suited to war, or an inquisitive race better suited to science.
Government
Once traits have been decided, which are determined via phenotype, ethics are chosen, some of which may be locked out by trait, and then government is chosen. So the species creation process will look something like this, with each level limiting the choice.
Phenotype -> Aesthetic -> Genetic Traits (limited based on phenotype) -> Ethics/Social Traits (Some limitation based on genetic traits but mostly broad groups to determine what type of characters are most likely) -> Government (based on social traits meaning a species that socially is very accepting, probably cant be an isolationist imperium government)-> Flavour (Species name, Planet name, Government name so forth, ship prefix.)
The computer would generate each species in this way when it populates the galaxy at the start of a campaign.
What we know
There are six phenotypes - So given the rest of the paragraph and the other information we have available what we can see is that there are six preset species, each falls into one of the phenotypes, while the phenotypes also house all the aesthetic looks for customization, and species creation.
Assumed Six Phenotypes
Mammal (Eg Human) - Including high and low order
Reptilian
Avian
Insectoid
Fungus/plant
Aquatic derived thing
Then we would have a species that fits into roughly each of these catagories.
We also know that there are around 100 aesthetic looks (RPS article) now, my assumption given the Ck2 esque portraits is each aesthetic look belongs to a phenotype, and that each aesthetic look is modular and has variations on it, similar to how various people of the same culture/facepack in ck2 look different. So think of each of those 100 as different culture groups portraits in ck2, and then each one belongs to a phenotype.
Species creation
We also know that species can be custom made at the beginning of a game to be played with, and are also randomly generated to populate the world. Now we also know that species, and characters have traits, and ethics. So now for assumption.
Traits
I propose that traits are genetic, which are locked and unlocked based upon phenotype, eg something in the Aquatic group, cant get a positive Genetic-Trait (hence) and each race is assigned a number of these traits, or if you are creating a species you picked them.
Ethics
Ethics which were described as being very like national values in V2 I believe, will be the basis for the social outlook of your civilization, expansionist, order, isolationist so forth and will determine what types of government that race has access to. Ethic or social traits, will be broad but will also determine what specific character traits leaders might get in the future, an expansionist race might get characters with character traits better suited to war, or an inquisitive race better suited to science.
Government
Once traits have been decided, which are determined via phenotype, ethics are chosen, some of which may be locked out by trait, and then government is chosen. So the species creation process will look something like this, with each level limiting the choice.
Phenotype -> Aesthetic -> Genetic Traits (limited based on phenotype) -> Ethics/Social Traits (Some limitation based on genetic traits but mostly broad groups to determine what type of characters are most likely) -> Government (based on social traits meaning a species that socially is very accepting, probably cant be an isolationist imperium government)-> Flavour (Species name, Planet name, Government name so forth, ship prefix.)
The computer would generate each species in this way when it populates the galaxy at the start of a campaign.
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If they are really different, it's a good number. You would say that there are more than 7 types of nations in EUIV?
Western non-HRE, HRE, Eastern, Muslim, New World, RoTW. I'd say there is less
One the one hand, 7 is roughly the amount you get in other space 4X games. On the other hand, I'd agree it's a bit limiting BUT if they they really feel different gameplay-wise (which is often not the case with a few random modifiers), then it can be enough. It would actually be better than loads of slightly different but overall very generic factions... Er, sorry, "phenotypes".
As for the phenotype word, I'll agree that the wording is confusing. Not using faction/civilization/wathever seems to suggest a gameplay mechanic/impact hidden behind this. I'll also admit that it's not wrong to say that an ape, an octopus and a bird make for 3 phenotypes, although it's also true that a brown guy, a blond one and a red haired one make for 3 phenotypes too. I guess the wording is an attempt to suggest a strong scientific background as you would expect from a sci fi game. I'll overall forgive game developpers from using weird biological wording especially when it does not seem wrong (from what little I know of the game). I mean, it's not a grand taxonomy simulaton, or is it?
But in Eu are you only allowed to play Spain, Bohemia, Ottomans, Novgorod, Aztecs, Korea, and Byzantine s? And would you play Eu if those were the only nations you were allowed to play? What about ck, Vic, hoi, ? Would you buy those games if only 7 nations were playable in each?Western non-HRE, HRE, Eastern, Muslim, New World, RoTW. I'd say there is less
Because it's different... It seems like many people don't understand the difference. It's like face packs for CK. Let's say facepacks are phenotypes. And cultures are factions. Stellaris has 7 phenotypes which would be 7 face packs in CK2. But you can have 200 cultures with only seven face packs, right? The game only has seven phenotypes. But the game has hundreds of factions/civilisations/races. But only seven phenotypes.
There are NO unplayable factions.
No there are 7 phenotypes. Number of species is unknown. T o clear up this misunderstanding is literally the purpose of this thread.
Firstly, while 7 is comparable to other games, do we expect Paradox to make games just like other games, or do we expect them to blow other games out of the water?
Secondly, I expect that if they don't know what they are talking about scientifically, that they not use it. I hold Paradox to a high standard because I know they are capable of it. This ain't EA or SEGA. This is Paradox. They make detailed games for complete nerds like you and I. We expect the best, even down to proper scientific taxonomy and nomenclature!
(This reply is semi-humorous, but really I do expect a lot from this company, and if they put it out there, they need to back it up).
I'm looking forward to the randomes of nations. It's always cool to have new opponents.
Other 4X games have 7 factions period.
Here you have 7 family of species with probably many different species in each of them, with god knows how many genetical and ethical variations. Add in different political views/factions, different government types and the pop system. This literally blow any space strategy game out of the water in this regard.