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Kingdoms from the Scratch

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I'm strongly against restarting, mainly because it would be extremely boring for all of us to play the same period again, and, besides, Arco and Jark's nations didn't do very badly. We have to advance at some point in the game, and no single nation is crippled in any way, and just about everyone has heirs (Germany should get one or two very soon).
 
Oh fun, Byak, Jark, and Arco haven't shown up...
 
Err... where we supposed to play today??? I am sorry, but I was for some reason in the impression that today we'd not play :(
 
We were. :p

Anyhow, we need people to vote on whether we restart the scenario (to incorporate all the bugfixes) or not. So far we have:

Restart: Solmyr, Patrucio
No restart: Sterk
Neutral: Hyz, Jarkko

So Byak, we await your decisive vote. ;)
 
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Jarkko Suvinen said:
Err... where we supposed to play today??? I am sorry, but I was for some reason in the impression that today we'd not play :(
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It's all good. You probably thought that because we were trying to find the bugs up until well after you went to bed. :D

Anyways, I support making the afore-mentioned culture changes, as the intention of most kingdoms is to have entirely homogenous nations. The only exceptions to that were France and Germany.

I could go either way for the German issue. I don't see it as a huge problem that Germany is slightly larger than everyone else (and by everyone else I mean France), but at the same time I also have no problem making Holstein Danish rather than Saxon and seeing the south Slavic duchies join with Croatia. I guess this is where Byak would chime in with his opinions.
 
Solmyr said:
We were. :p

Anyhow, we need people to vote on whether we restart the scenario (to incorporate all the bugfixes) or not. So far we have:

Restart: Solmyr, Patrucio
No restart: Sterk
Neutral: Hyz

So Byak and Jarkko, we await your votes.
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I am neutral on this. Either one suis me fine.
 
Well, the trip to GF's cousin's wedding lasted until now, so I really were quite unable to play today.

Well, if we wish to tweak the balance between kingdoms, I'd say we do restart. Although the power of Germany (and to lesser extent France) is limited by not having weak AI powers to expand into. Restarting would give me another chance at trying to get a son with the first wife though... :rolleyes:

No sign Arcorelli then?

Duke of Salisbury is an archbishop, who I intentionally left unmarried initally as it was not necessary for him to be married to be related to Rose family. I did notice Pat added him a wife, probably during adding Aragonese wives so it ended up as catalan. :)

Culture problems are mostly due to too fast cut/paste changing in some places... You are correct in all points though.

Well... Unless Arcorelli is still going to play with us and specifically does not want restarting, I'd say Restart is majority's choice. So let's go for that.
 
Well, Denmark and Croatia are fairly weak AI powers, which is why I suggested moving some German duchies to them. On my own part, Navarra is pretty much cannon fodder for France. Burgundy is also fairly weak, and is likely to be taken apart by France/Germany/Italy at some point. It's up to you really whether you want to give up any duchies, I don't mind either way, was just throwing out a suggestion. :)

I'll fix the cultures and repost the scenario at some point before next weekend, once we are decided on any duchy transfers.
 
Jarkko Suvinen said:
Err... where we supposed to play today??? I am sorry, but I was for some reason in the impression that today we'd not play :(
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Seconded. (and regarding restart, no problem with restarting)
 
Well, moving the south slavic duchies of Germany to Croatia would at least make my borders more pleasant to look at, as the one prov wide german tentacle between Italy and Croatia is quite funny. :D
 
Well, if we're gonna restart every time somebody doesn't show up or there's some little fix to balance to be done, we're going to be playing 1066-1090s for a very long time. Honestly, we shouldn't restart because the second most powerful nation is concerned that the most powerful nation is too powerful (France and Germany, respectively). I'm fine with Germany being powerful, I've found a way around it, besides handing over my crown and becoming a vassal. Really, are we restarting because people are unhappy with how well they did or because if we don't make these fixes the game will be horrible? I consider myself to not be prejudiced towards any side, except possibly restart, because I didn't do very well in the game (barely had a son at all, have almost come to war with a couple pc nations...).

I mean, who wants to play the same exact thing over again, especially when the first few years are only building up prestige...?
 
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In a restart, I do think that we should use the original session to at least build back story. For example, I plan on beginning the game with an intense rivalry/dislike between the House of Rose and the House of Piast due to an ancient slight that neither House has forgotten (assuming Sterk is fine with doing that, of course), and I think the sniping between the House of Vermandois and the House of Hapsburg should not be set aside, either. Of course, since the disagreements between the German and the Frank are territorial in nature, they would likely manifest again anyways. Talking things out would also give us the opportunity to work in deeper relations between Italy/Aragon and those of us who played in the first session.

I'd also like to suggest that we revise our characters somewhat for this start. In particular, I think we should try to bring their stats in line with how we have been role-playing our characters. In my own case, I feel I should probably lower my dimplomacy stat, since I have learned that good King George is not a very diplomatic person. He's also more war-like and cruel than I initially imagined him, what with his love for persecuting and torturing the Welsh. I feel that Sterk would do well to revise his character and make sure he has the Proud trait, since most agree that he is playing a very proud person. Solmyr might consider both Lustful and Indulgent, since those were his most prominant traits during the RP aspects of the game. I'd even go so far as to suggest that Hyzhen go about trying to build his character as Modest and Wise from the way he played Gaspar. And so on.

I think there is a natural tendancy among us to try to min-max a bit when we build our characters, and I'd like to see us take advantage of a restart to make our characters more about the RP aspect of the game rather than the mechanics of the game.
 
Sterkarm said:
Well, if we're gonna restart every time somebody doesn't show up or there's some little fix to balance to be done, we're going to be playing 1066-1090s for a very long time.
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Well, the primary reason for the restart is the CTD. If we hadn't had that, there would not be any discussion about restarting.

That said, part of the purpose of this game is for Byak (and the rest of us who worked on putting this together) to test the balance of this scenario and make it palatable for mass consumption as a standard MP scenario. This core group that has formed around the Satrurday night/Sunday morning time slot has already put in a decent amount of effort in trying to expand the MP/RP possibilities of CK through formalizing character generation and working on trying to figure out all the kinks in CK MP. Byak's initial idea for KFS was to build a starndadized scenario for MP that would make a Kings-level MP game more about player interaction than AI-bashing. Because of that, tweaking scenario balance is a vital part of playing through this game.
 
Sterk, the counter argument would be that you are against it because you don't want to lose what you've gained. If we restart, we're all giving up things that may have gone well and we're getting back a chance to have something go well that didn't. Pretty much equal.

However, I've said it really depends on Jarkko and Arco, and if they don't specifically want to restart, then we might as well continue on with what we have. It isn't necessary to restart unless those that were absent object to playing a game where they missed the first sessin.
 
As a minor thing, if we restart, I could put all those count vassals for those dukes with too poor stewardship to handle their demesne, to save us from the horde of countesses at start.
 
Get the scenario here (fixed province cultures as posted above):

http://www.kolumbus.fi/solmyr/CK/KFS.zip

Will leave it to Byak to move the southslavic duchies and set up any necessary counts.

As for restarting, in CK the 1066-1090 period is rarely exactly the same even with the same scenario. So I don't think it would be boring. Besides, we'll move through it fast enough (took us only one session to play 20 years).
 
Hyzhenhok said:
However, I've said it really depends on Jarkko and Arco, and if they don't specifically want to restart, then we might as well continue on with what we have. It isn't necessary to restart unless those that were absent object to playing a game where they missed the first sessin.
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Either way is fine with me. I go with whatever the crew decides.
 
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