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Hyzhenhok said:
Is it possible to have more than eight players in CK MP? If it is, then we should decide which Kingdom. I believe Sweden is the best option, then Norway, and then Naples. The Iberian kingdoms are too far away, and everything else is too small.

Why would the Iberian Kings be too far away? We already have one player in Iberia already. Castille borders upon Aragon (a PC realm) and it practically borders on France as well. That's not to say there isn't merit in your suggestions as well, but I wouldn't rule out Castille.
 
Sterkarm said:
That's one reason why I opposed a restart, as it gave away everyone's strategies the first time...

To be perfectly honest, I don't play with a strategy. If we play again with a clean slate, I might very well choose radically different courses. I play the situation. I think that having a "master plan" for your dynasty that you follow generation after generation interferes greatly with one's ability to role play. Indeed, I almost always alter my goals each time my regent dies. Look, for example, at GoT.

I started out in GoT friendly to England, closely allied and with a high degree of co-operation. A generation later, I was at war with England and had terrible relations with them. A generation and marriage into the de Normandie family after that, I was allied to England again.

One King was closely allied to Burgundy and closely cooperated with him against a common enemy. His son attacked Burgundy forgetting the aid the de Hautevilles gave the House of Frankonia and focusing instead on the title that once belonged to his House.

One King was friendly to Poland and supported their expansion. Another wanted war with Poland for "poaching" land. The next King couldn't care less. Another King feared Poland's expansion and was planning to take steps to curtail it.

Not all relationships are so erratic. For example, Hungary married into my family every generation, so I always kept good terms with them. Germany and France always kept friendly, if disinterested, relations. However, I do try to change things up from generation to generation. I think good role-playing demands it.
 
Patrucio said:
Why would the Iberian Kings be too far away? We already have one player in Iberia already. Castille borders upon Aragon (a PC realm) and it practically borders on France as well. That's not to say there isn't merit in your suggestions as well, but I wouldn't rule out Castille.

Well, I think any player Castille will simply maintain good relations with Aragon or France, and then expand into AI Leon and Portugal, which are plenty big to give the player generations of 'Single Player' MP. Perhaps if we chose and Iberian kingdom, Leon would be better, as they are in a position to 'partition' Castille with Aragon, and probably about on equal grounds.
 
Hyzhenhok said:
Well, I think any player Castille will simply maintain good relations with Aragon or France, and then expand into AI Leon and Portugal, which are plenty big to give the player generations of 'Single Player' MP.

Well, one might wonder how happy or supportive France would be about a single Iberian kingdom conquering all the others... ;)
 
Well, if CK can support 9 players, I'll repeat myself a bit again with suitable options:

- Castile, second largest iberian kingdom, lacks in amount of duchies, but is quite strong nonetheless
- Sweden, definetly largest of scandinavian kingdoms, would populate the north
- Naples, somewhat poor, but still decently powerful
 
The point, I think, will be moot if our prospective players never get around to building their characters. ;) I would like to urge anyone considering joining the game to throw a character together before the evening is over so that I have enough time to generate, write up, and code your NPC characters, and so that we can test the scenario after I do all that to make sure there aren't any bugs in the code. Most of the bugs in the last version came from me trying to do all the coding and stuff at the last minute. I don't think repeating that process is advisable.

I like what I see as the potential of the 8/9 player game. I see two major powers (France and Germany) squarely in the middle, who really need only to respect each other's power and the opinions of their vassals. I also see three region (the Island north, the mediterranean south, and the East) where rivalries will inevitably arise due to competition over the same land. I also see the potential of the smaller PC realms becoming, in part, clients and proxies for the German and Frankish struggle for dominance over Europe.
 
Well, Patr, I don't have a grand strategy, but it's more that I am being opposed at the start and other countries have decided to expand faster, and, since I have the smallest number of dukes, I don't stand much of a chance in that arena...
 
admiral drake & Martinus:

I need you to post a character sometime today to make sure that I have time enough to get everything done for you to join us. If we don't get anything ASAP, we may well not have enough time to get everything done and ready for you to join us.
 
king : 8/5/3/8/8/8 age 20 DNA:01000202020006
tough soldier , honost and wise

wife : 7/6/4/7/8/8 age 18
proven accountant , just and lustfull

and if possible sweden , secund choise naples :)
 
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Right, I think it's time to decide that we'll restart on Sunday. Following tweak will be done to Scenario by then:

- South Slavics (Steiermark, Kärnten, Krain and Istria) will move to Crotia, to drop Germany from 19 vassal duchies into 15 vassal duchies.

Requests for other tweaks will be heard and considered.

I hope Pat gets new player kingdoms filled with underlings by saturday evening (european time) so that he can post the scenario with them for final good checkup and count adding done with care, which I will do on saturday evening - night (european time).
 
Right, I think it's time to decide that we'll restart on Sunday. Following tweak will be done to Scenario by then:

- South Slavics (Steiermark, Kärnten, Krain and Istria) will move to Crotia, to drop Germany from 19 vassal duchies into 15 vassal duchies.

Requests for other tweaks will be heard and considered.

If I'm going to be editing in the Sweeden NPCs, it would probably be just as well that I move the south slavic duchies myself at the same time so that we do not have two versions of the scenario that need to be combined again. If you'd like to make the Sweeden NPCs, though, I will gladly place all the editing concerns into your hands.

One other necessary tweak will be fixing some of the Italian province techs. All the counties in the Duchy of Venice got the techs that were supposed to be for the Royal capital only. That can, of course, be done when you're (or I'm) modifying Sweeden's technologies to fit the PC scheme.

I hope Pat gets new player kingdoms filled with underlings by saturday evening (european time) so that he can post the scenario with them for final good checkup and count adding done with care, which I will do on saturday evening - night (european time).

I'm going to get started, but feel free to take over, Byak.

Also, well timed on 1.04, eh?
 
Solmyr said:
Perhaps you might wait with adding the counts? I mean, it's not a critical thing, and it's an area where new bugs can creep in easily. If you do it on Saturday there won't be much time for checking that all is well. :D

That might be sound, since we got the character so late. Instead of generating a whole slew of new characters, just give him his brother and five courtiers that go into his court. That would help insulate us from most of the areas that would cause CTD issues. His King would be picking up a second duchy and techs will need adjusting, so we will need to do some tweaking, but keeping all the other existing counts in place would mean that we could do a straight edit rather than having to juggle all those NPCs based on his picks and get it done fairly quickly.
 
What I meant was that perhaps Byak should wait with adding the counts under dukes who need them. It's a lot of work and is not strictly necessary right at the start. AI-appointed countesses will likely get revoked eventually anyway when the duke needs land for sons.

EDIT: And anyhow, since country cousins are now always male, the countesses will get inherited by males in due time (I assume).
 
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Yes, making those counts is not necessary now because of 1.04. Though the new patch pretty much requires us to restart, which we already decided to do.

I'd suggest giving Scotland a 7-7-7-7-6-6 level 3 education King and wife of the same stats, as well as 4-5 random courtiers, in case Martinus is still interested but simply hasn't had the time.
 
I've done all the basic edits already- made the german duchies Croatian, fixed Swedish techs, made the non-swedish duchies (like Finland) swedish, and put in some NPCs. I'm loathe to juggle around Duchies, but I have no problem switching out one ruler for another.

Sweden has six duchies, plus the two held by the Crown. The Crown rules the duchies of Uppland and Vastergotland. The other duchies are:

Ostergotland: Sodermanland, Ostergotland, Narke
Smaland: Finnveden, Smaland, Kalamar Lan, Oland
Norrland: Lappland, Vasterbotten, Angermenland, Medelpad, Halsingland, Gastrikland
Karelia: Kemi, Kajanaborg, Savolaks, Viborg
Finland: Nyland, Finland, Tavast, Satakuna, Osterbotten
Bergslagen: Dalarna, Varmland

The nobles of Sweden are as follows:

The King's Brother

Knut Brahe

Young Knut is an exceptionally good-looking young man. He could have any woman he wanted, were it not for his zealous devotion to Christian virtues. Knut is, however, an exceptionally religious individual, and would not willingly commit sin. Still, his good looks and charming personality make him one of the most well-liked nobles in the Kingdom of Sweden. The boundless energy with which he tackles every problem also earns him respect. While he nas none of his brother's martial talents, he is rather more clever than King Johan.

The King's Brothers-in-Law

Inge Hasthuvud

Inge is a lazy fop that relies solely on his charm and hansome face to get by. He is gullible, incompetent, and has no sense or subtility. Even so, he somehow managed to win the love of late King Sven's eldest daughter, and doting King Sven let his oldest marry for love rather than for politics. So I guess he isn't as dumb as he looks.

Birger Grip

Birger, head of the powerful Grip Clan, is perhaps the most well-respected nobleman in all of Sweden. He is clever, competent, and possesses a magnetic personality. He is also admired for his scrupulous nature. Birger understands the power of a favor, and often forgives slights against him. Of course, month or years later he may well call the favor of his kindness due, but one can hardly fault him for that.

Sigtrygg Lejon

Sigtrygg is the foremost religious thinker in all of Sweden. He is a rather well-rounded fellow, though he has no head for military matters. He claims it is because he is dedicated to the Christian ideal of peacefulness, but others suspect it is because he is cowardly in the extreme. Sigtrygg is a rather harsh fellow for one ostenably dedicated to peace, however, and has long advocated savage punishments for those who refuse to accept Christian teaching. The cruelty Sigtrygg shows non-believers does make him popular in Rome, however.

Olaf Tre Rosor

Olaf is an experienced veteran of many Swedish campaigns. Olaf was also the knight to whom King Johan was squired as a youth. Though there may be knights in Sweden more skillful than Olaf in the arts of war (though only a handful, at best), none is more brave. Olaf's courage carried the day for Sweden on more than one occasion. Olaf has no hesitation about using deception and treachery, on or off the field of combat, against his enemies. He has something of a stern persona, and is certainly more comfortable on the field of battle rather than off, but he is still a competent and capable nobleman.

Marcus Eka

Marcus the Just, as he is popularly known, is a well-regarded and popular noble. The House of Eka has long championed the people and the tribal customs, and because of that has long been dear to the hearts of many Swedes. Eka is an uncompromisingly honest person, with little guile in his heart or mouth. He is a talented and influential noble, one who many young courtiers eagerly align themselves with.

Ake Fargalt

Ake was squired to a foolish knight in his youth. Though Ake has a considerable natural talent for military affairs, the knight who mentored him filled his head with strange notions and odd tactics that rarely seem to work out well. Only his natural strength seems to carry him through the misguided troubles his strategums place him in. Ake recognizes that something is amiss in his strageies, and his humble about his skills because of it. He cannot admit the error of his beloved mentor, however, so he decieves himself and others about what goes wrong. Ake also has absolutely no head for logistics, and has lost his army's supplies more than once.

The King's Cousins

Azur Hafriedsatten

Azur is a stern and suspicious fellow, unpopular with the nobility of Sweden for the harsh words he has for them about what he percieves as their laziness and indolence. Azur is almost an ascetic. He often fasts and refrains from intercourse, for he believes that doing so makes him a better soldier. Many doubt that his methods are beneficial Azur, but it is undeniable that he is one of the most outstanding military commanders in all of the north. Azur is a very subtle fellow, and also seems to have a talent for the management of estates. Other than his unpopularity among the ruling class of Sweden, Azur is the ideal nobleman.

Bo Kraam

Bo is often called the sneakiest man in Sweden. It is undeniable that none grasp the inner workings of the court better than Bo. The webs of intrigue he weaves are as daring as they are original. It is fortunate, then, that this clever man is a just and modest fellow, unyieldingly dedicated to King Johan of Sweden. One shudders to think what would happen if treachery were ever to enter into Bo's heart.

Nobles married to cousins of the King

Faste Lake

Faste is the greatest warrior of Sweden. His exploits on the battlefield are matched only by his exploits in the great halls. His love of alcohol is nearly legendary, and Faste is rarely sober. The drink does not leave faste a plesant fellow, for he often seems more ready to doubt the good will of others once he begins imbibing alcohol. Given how eager Sweden's enemies might be to see Faste dead, though, his suspcion of others might not be entirely unjustified. Faste has suffered with worms in the stomach since his youth, which some feel explains his gluttony and intemperance.

Ingemar Oxpanna

Ingemar was once a promising young student in the monistaries. Honest and willing to turn the other cheek, he was an ideal candidate for the priesthood. While Ingemar did recieve his tonsure, he lost interest in the teachings of the church at some point in his education. He is not so brazen as to doubt the truth taught by the Church, but neither does he care much for spreading the gospels. Ingemar prefers to spend his time in court, mingling with powerful people and foreign visitors.

Totil Pik

Totil is something of a joke in noble Swedish circles. He is a tested soldier of several wars, but he has failed the tests put before him more often than not. Totil doesn't really seem to have a talent for anything, though in his defense he is an exceptionally nice person. He is rather judgemental of others, and dislikes people who do not owe their loyalty to King Johan. Because of that, he manages to keep Johan's favor dispite his relative incompetence.
 
Patrucio said:
If I'm going to be editing in the Sweeden NPCs, it would probably be just as well that I move the south slavic duchies myself at the same time so that we do not have two versions of the scenario that need to be combined again. If you'd like to make the Sweeden NPCs, though, I will gladly place all the editing concerns into your hands.

Nono, there won't be two versions this time, I'll just wait for you to post your version up, then edit it and then post it up as final version. Much simpler and more elegant. ;)

Patrucio said:
One other necessary tweak will be fixing some of the Italian province techs. All the counties in the Duchy of Venice got the techs that were supposed to be for the Royal capital only. That can, of course, be done when you're (or I'm) modifying Sweeden's technologies to fit the PC scheme.

So all counties in duchy of Venice got small castles when they should not have?

Also, I have to check what 1.04 brought to us, so some issues (like the countess issue) may be void.
 
Patrucio said:
I've done all the basic edits already- made the german duchies Croatian, fixed Swedish techs, made the non-swedish duchies (like Finland) swedish, and put in some NPCs. I'm loathe to juggle around Duchies, but I have no problem switching out one ruler for another.

Noo, Finland has been swedified! :eek:

Well, I guess I can live with that. ;) :D