List of 1.33 undocumented changes (please help contribute!)

[AvengedK1ng]

It may just be me, but in 5 games, Charles never dies before 1500 and Burgundy always joins the Empire. It's quite annoying.

I got 1453 mary, and within 2 months she died. I loaded backup where austria had her still alive and contested. With liege + bar I've spawned a coalition with 4/5ths of the HRE + England, who refuse to leave despite resetcand +25 opinion, only peaced out because of dumb call for peace. At least I was able to improve relations with teutons, Poland, and Venice before the war.

 

[jonjowett]

I can't prove it, but I think that AI will only leave coalitions against you if their aggressive expansion goes down to zero. (Previously, they'd leave soon after it ticked below 50.)

Alternatively, this may be a change in the attitude system - eg. once an AI becomes outraged, they don't lose it until AE=0 (or maybe if opinion>50), and outraged AI will always stay in a coalition.

 

[EarlKonrad]

I can't prove it, but I think that AI will only leave coalitions against you if their aggressive expansion goes down to zero. (Previously, they'd leave soon after it ticked below 50.)

Alternatively, this may be a change in the attitude system - eg. once an AI becomes outraged, they don't lose it until AE=0 (or maybe if opinion>50), and outraged AI will always stay in a coalition.

That's not how it worked "previously". For an AI to leave a coalition they must be friendly towards the coalition target, meaning 100+ relations. The amount of AE wasn't never a factor aside from the 50 requires for it to join/form a coalition.

 

[FrogCrusher]

That's not how it worked "previously". For an AI to leave a coalition they must be friendly towards the coalition target, meaning 100+ relations. The amount of AE wasn't never a factor aside from the 50 requires for it to join/form a coalition.

That's not true. By reloading the game, it happened really often to have AI leaving coalition without the +100 opinion toward you.

 

[EarlKonrad]

That's not true. By reloading the game, it happened really often to have AI leaving coalition without the +100 opinion toward you.

My bad. Meant to say +50 opinion, not 100.

 

[bokorthedust]

In my last run a stronger, rival Ottomans, plus some smallish powers from all over (Fars, 3-4 Manchurian tribes and an Indian) formed a coalition against me because I was fighting a 100k army disaster ridden Ming. They were stronger than me (Ottomans had a 170k army, I had 98k plus a 20-25k Timurid vassal, the Manchurians and Fars each had 7-10k, we were on the same tech and I had no allies), and yet the coalition dissipated when I reloaded the game the next day, even though Ottomas had 80-90-ish AE, Fars and the Manchurians all above 100.

 

[Mrkew]

I have the opposite problem. Wasn't there a line in one of the dev diaries that japan wouldn't make other japanese culture tags into tributaries? It still does and it prevents a unification easily for the wrong reasons.

 

[PrussicAcid]

I just realized that my vassals are always destroying their armies when blackflaged after a peace deal.
Not sure if it is a WAI undocumented change.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My bad. Meant to say +50 opinion, not 100.

Definitely wasn't true in previous patches. +50 opinion guaranteed it if AE was also below 50, but AI could also leave coalition/drop outraged below 50 AE (but much above 0) even at negative opinion. What precisely triggered that was never clear to me, but it was pretty common to see them leave in the 30-45 AE range.

 

[Saat98]

I forgot to mention that AI now dev its coal provinces. ASAP.
To the point that I've been able to see Ming dev Luoyang until renaissance poped few times.

I've also seen this. It is insane. In my Castile game I've just inherited Aragon and they developed Caller to 33 dev. We are like 150 years away from coal spawning and it is already the biggest city on my empire. It is just insane. It has more dev than London!

 

[rasp01]

Did they increase aggresive expansion?

 

[Jespoke]

Did they increase aggresive expansion?

No, they decreased it in 1.32, and have not reverted it either.

 

[Triplebassist]

Definitely wasn't true in previous patches. +50 opinion guaranteed it if AE was also below 50, but AI could also leave coalition/drop outraged below 50 AE (but much above 0) even at negative opinion. What precisely triggered that was never clear to me, but it was pretty common to see them leave in the 30-45 AE range.

My sense was that AE under 50 allowed the AI to determine if remaining in an existing coalition was worth it considering threat level (ie could the coalition win) in the same way that AE above 50 doesn't auto trigger a coalition even if enough valid nations aren't truce locked if they're all scared of you when they combine their strength

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My sense was that AE under 50 allowed the AI to determine if remaining in an existing coalition was worth it considering threat level (ie could the coalition win) in the same way that AE above 50 doesn't auto trigger a coalition even if enough valid nations aren't truce locked if they're all scared of you when they combine their strength

That could be. It implies AI threat evaluation is pretty wacky, but that's consistent with observations elsewhere too.

 

[bokorthedust]

Something is definitely up with AI war enthusiasm and willingness to declare independence wars. Here are two screenshots from my current Mamluks run:

First two: I am in a war with Hisn Kayfa, Gazikumuk is an ally of them, who is also in a separate war with Shirvan. While it is true I only hold 1 occupation and have 6% individiual war score, on previous patches they would have taken a white peace in this situation which is all I was looking for. Noticed it in other runs and wars too, but this is the first time it occurred to me to take a screenshot. The AI is definitely less willing to quit wars, even if they are beat at have nothing to lose by peacing out.

Third one: the AI is very reluctant to declare independence wars they could easily win. I used to be allied to Byzantium from the start to kneecap the Ottomans by preventing them from ever taking Constantinople. Athens' independence has been supported by Genoa and Crimea pretty much from the point they rivaled the Byzantines, but until we were allied I could see why the AI didn't declare. However 6-7 years ago I broke alliance with the Byzantines, and when our truce came up I joined in supporting the Athenian independence for science. They've also independently picked up Tunis too in the meantime. It has been nearly two years since I've been supporting them too, Byzantium is allied with Serbia and Theodoro only, and I alone could beat them, not to mention a decent sized Tunis and a usual size Crimea and Geneoa who are also in on this, Byzantium has been at peace for the last decade, they lost Morea and Constantinople as a secondary participant in a Serbian-Ottoman war, but I returned Constantinople before the Ottomans ever got to peace to pass the decision to move their capital there. Not once in the past decade did Athens declare when he had enough support to do so, and even passed up the opportunity of Serbia not even honoring because he was occupied by the Ottomans.

 

[jonjowett]

Something is definitely up with AI war enthusiasm and willingness to declare independence wars. Here are two screenshots from my current Mamluks run:

First two: I am in a war with Hisn Kayfa, Gazikumuk is an ally of them, who is also in a separate war with Shirvan. While it is true I only hold 1 occupation and have 6% individiual war score, on previous patches they would have taken a white peace in this situation which is all I was looking for. Noticed it in other runs and wars too, but this is the first time it occurred to me to take a screenshot. The AI is definitely less willing to quit wars, even if they are beat at have nothing to lose by peacing out.

I don't think there's anything particularly odd here.

• They are very close to accepting a white peace (+47 vs -48).
• The single province you occupy is relatively worthless (only +6), and their army is completely intact (-20). If either of those were different, you would have your white peace.
• And you'll get the white peace in 2-3 months anyway, because their war exhaustion will be ticking up rapidly.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Something is definitely up with AI war enthusiasm and willingness to declare independence wars. Here are two screenshots from my current Mamluks run:

View attachment 815937
View attachment 815938

First two: I am in a war with Hisn Kayfa, Gazikumuk is an ally of them, who is also in a separate war with Shirvan. While it is true I only hold 1 occupation and have 6% individiual war score, on previous patches they would have taken a white peace in this situation which is all I was looking for. Noticed it in other runs and wars too, but this is the first time it occurred to me to take a screenshot. The AI is definitely less willing to quit wars, even if they are beat at have nothing to lose by peacing out.

View attachment 815940
Third one: the AI is very reluctant to declare independence wars they could easily win. I used to be allied to Byzantium from the start to kneecap the Ottomans by preventing them from ever taking Constantinople. Athens' independence has been supported by Genoa and Crimea pretty much from the point they rivaled the Byzantines, but until we were allied I could see why the AI didn't declare. However 6-7 years ago I broke alliance with the Byzantines, and when our truce came up I joined in supporting the Athenian independence for science. They've also independently picked up Tunis too in the meantime. It has been nearly two years since I've been supporting them too, Byzantium is allied with Serbia and Theodoro only, and I alone could beat them, not to mention a decent sized Tunis and a usual size Crimea and Geneoa who are also in on this, Byzantium has been at peace for the last decade, they lost Morea and Constantinople as a secondary participant in a Serbian-Ottoman war, but I returned Constantinople before the Ottomans ever got to peace to pass the decision to move their capital there. Not once in the past decade did Athens declare when he had enough support to do so, and even passed up the opportunity of Serbia not even honoring because he was occupied by the Ottomans.

Ai might not like stab hit from independence and just want peaceful independence

 

[dualmaster]

It looks like they changed how adjacency is applied to culture conversion costs. It used to be that the -25% adjacent culture modifier was applied after all other modifiers were applied, but now it is counted just like other modifiers and limited by the 90% cap.

Example: With -90% culture conversion modifiers, converting a 16 development province to your culture would cost 16 diplo points. In previous patches, having the culture adjacent would further reduce this cost by -25% to 12 diplo. However, it looks like now the -25% adjacent culture is just added up with other culture conversion modifiers, so the absolute minimum cost will only ever be -90%, thus in this example it will still cost 16 diplo whether adjacent or not.

 

[bokorthedust]

It looks like they changed how adjacency is applied to culture conversion costs. It used to be that the -25% adjacent culture modifier was applied after all other modifiers were applied, but now it is counted just like other modifiers and limited by the 90% cap.

Example: With -90% culture conversion modifiers, converting a 16 development province to your culture would cost 16 diplo points. In previous patches, having the culture adjacent would further reduce this cost by -25% to 12 diplo. However, it looks like now the -25% adjacent culture is just added up with other culture conversion modifiers, so the absolute minimum cost will only ever be -90%, thus in this example it will still cost 16 diplo whether adjacent or not.

That's not 1.33, I did my one culture run on 1.32 and it was like that. Same for the overseas non-colonized -80% that used to be applied after everything else, making most of the New World provinces convert for free, ever since 1.32 the minimum cost of culture converting a province doesn't go lower than the development of said province (but it is still capped at 30 dev).

 

[bokorthedust]

I don't think there's anything particularly odd here.

• They are very close to accepting a white peace (+47 vs -48).
• The single province you occupy is relatively worthless (only +6), and their army is completely intact (-20). If either of those were different, you would have your white peace.
• And you'll get the white peace in 2-3 months anyway, because their war exhaustion will be ticking up rapidly.

Yeah I got it in like 2 months, that's not the issue, but on earlier patches they would have quit already. At least that's how I remember, I could wp enemy allies even if I was nowhere near them when they were fully occupied.