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MTT players,

With regard to the Peace, I must confess I’m a little afraid of the situation in the Middle East. I never ran this game as a GM. Mostly I hosted the sessions and posted info about the game. I allowed the players to run the game and enforce the rules. I never imposed my will, except with regard to fighting and foul language.

My point is this; I don’t want to go into EUII with the entire Middle East controlled by players. I had planned with other players to smash those realms that held massive chunks of land in those regions to create free realms. It was just fortuitous that Hungary attacked Poland and allowed us an opportunity to smash them quickly. I tell you, had Ear shown up it would have gone much the same route.

Now the choice is this. Do we load the save and force us to slog through hours fighting to decide the fate of the Middle East. Can’t we use this opportunity to discuss the matter amongst the players and try to come to a reasonable conclusion that we all can live with? Now the realms that are shown free in the MAP are not the only answer, just a suggestion. We have the week to discuss it.

Everyone has an interest in the outcome of this matter therefore your input is important. But, please refrain from snap decisions and dramatic statements. Remember this is a suggestion an opportunity to work out a problem before we have to play. Think about it, post your response and be open to compromise.

Traveler
My proposal for the fix on the situation:

1.Keep the current kingdoms as is after solving the Hungary-Poland conflict.

2.Run some advertisement for the free KoJ (but only after conversion, once we can give at least an EU2 screenie for preview).

3.Invite people to locations like:
- Timurid Empire (involves later conversion to Mughal Empire)
- another Central Asia state, e.g. Uzbekh Horde
- One Indian state, but not Delhi if human Timurid present - Vyjanagar, Hyderabad, Bahmanid Empire, Benghal all seem small, but with sufficent potential
- 2 or 3 African states - Mali, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu Empire and either Ethiopia or some of its neighbours should be fit
- any other ROTW location if there are takers

4.All ROTW nations except maybe China get predefined alliances with AI of their liking.

5.All european posessions outside Europe get higher decentralisation by releasing vassals - say entire Hungarian Persia could consist of nations like Qara Koyunlu, Fars, M'usha'sha and finally Persia itself, who all would be Hungary's vassals. Same goes for Spanish, Italian, Burgundian, French North Africa.
It is important here that all vassals created in such way are bigger than one province, preferably 3+ provinces big, to not allow them to be quickly annexed by a rival.

6.ROTW nations get a gold, diplomat, missionary and merchant one-time boost in the game start (full 6 missionaries, diplomats and merchants, but not colonists as well as say +1000d).
We could also boost things as relations, troops, ships and other such not game-breaking things for ROTW, say +1 fortress in capital and all trade centers.

7.Finally we should seek to alleviate the research penalties for ROTW nations by giving them more contact (eliminating the isolation penalty), except probably for those of The New World.
 
OK, people, GMI's point occurred to me late last night (great minds, all that), and I said unto myself, "Boy, am I stupid!" Now, I've looked at the EU2Vic forum, and it seems there is some MYmap-related activity. Also, given the source code for that utility, I'm pretty confident I can modify it rather quickly to produce a good conversion for MYmap. (At this moment I don't have the code, though, only the compiled utility; without that, I am a little less confident - I don't know how flexible that code is, it might well make some assumptions that aren't true for MYmap.) So it's not a deal-breaker, as I thought yesterday. But it is something to take into account.

About the other numbers in the province files, bin is correct for the items he mentioned. The number after the province name is just the base income, in CK, of the province; this doesn't change when moving to MYmap, so you don't need to worry about it. (That's why I didn't mention it, not wanting to confuse anyone - this seems to have backfired.) Only the two numbers I highlighted are important, and you only need to change the second one.

Let me go through the process in a little more detail, with the province I am currently dealing with. This is 645, and here is the original data for it :

645;Hendjan;3;532;SHIR;PERS

So; the first thing I do is to find Hendjan on the CK map. There are several ways of doing this. My preferred method is to look it up in the utility I linked in the post above, just brute-force searching through the whole map; I am helped somewhat by knowing roughly where I am, namely Persia. As a general rule, province 644 is right next to 645, so once you've found your starting point, you can ust look around the previous province. Hendjan, as it happens, is right north of the Persian Gulf :

Hendjan.jpg


Having found Hendjan in CK, I want to figure out where it is in MYmap. I take a look at this post, in this thread, which also contains the MYmap versions of other parts of the world. It looks to me as though Hendjan falls into either Kuhgiluya, or Dashtistan; not wanting to spend a lot of time on it, I assign it to Dashtistan. (Sometimes these names are a bit hard to read; for such cases, I have an EU with MYmap running.) Now then, what number is Dashtistan? The map I linked doesn't say, although some of the maps in that thread do have numbers. I could use EU2 with the 'showid' cheat, as bin suggested. Or I could look it up in the file 'province.csv' in the 'db' folder of the my EU2 installation - being sure, of course, to use the MYmap EU2, not the vanilla one! I find the second option quicker. A rapid search for the string 'dashti' in the province.csv file brings me this line :

1719;Dashtistan;inland;shiite;persian;0;20;1;0;0;0;2;5;0;0;0;0;0;0;grai;0;0;7;0;0;0;0;0;6054;3113;6017;3100;0;0;6049;3148;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;Persia;Middle East;Asia;Dashtistan;0;0;0;1;0;0;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

Most of this is ignorable bumph; the only important thing is the province number, which I've highlighted. So now I know everything I need, and can change the original line to this :

645;Hendjan;3;1719;SHIR;PERS

(You'll note that if I had assigned Hendjan to Kuhgiluya instead, then 532 would have been correct and I needn't have made a change, since Kuhgiluya is indeed number 532 in MYmap. This happens about 50% of the time, since MYmap doesn't move many provinces around, it just adds new ones.)

Done! I now move on to the next province, which is

644;Shiraz;5;533;SHIR;PERS

Shiraz, Shiraz... Ah, there it is, right next to Hendjan. Falls pretty naturally into Kuhgiluya, I'd say. 532 it is :

644;Shiraz;5;532;SHIR;PERS

Next province!

Note that many CK provinces can fall into one EU province; that is not a problem. (I could happily assign Shiraz to 1719, if I thought that was the best palce for it.) But try to make sure that each EU2 province does have at least one CK province assigned to it.

It sounds complicated, but it goes fairly quickly once you get into it - lookup CK, decide EU2 province, lookup EU2 province number, change, next. It's just tedious, not difficult. Hence my requests for help. :)




About the Hungary situation - certainly, we would at some point have forced Hungary and Spain to give up their conquests in the Middle East; but I do not feel it is right to deprive them of the pleasure of struggling against that outcome. Who knows, maybe Hungary could have won! After all, he should have a natural ally in Spain, who could surely see himself as next on our little list; and it has to be said, while Norway views the Middle East situation with concern, a quick backstab against our immediate enemy Poland, while his armies are busy in the South, has considerable attraction. And if not, well, it can be quite fun to be on the losing end of a long-drawn-out struggle, as I (recently) and Sterk (in the past) have every reason to know. But to just miss a session, and find that somebody has quite arbitrarily chopped off half your kingdom - I don't think that's very fun at all. We have protections against AI-bashing for a reason. (Although Lurken, having now missed four or five sessions in a row, is getting dangerously close to the point where we're going to have to declare him AI, and do whatever we like to his kingdom.)

Now, I admit that this is a bit of a special case, since it was actually Ear's AI that DOWed, and Poland was likewise AI when it won. I'm not saying Hungary should get off scot-free. Still, I think the loss of three king titles is a really major, un-fun punishment for missing a single session. Could we go back to the autosave, and fight it out from there? If so, I think Italy should pull his armies out of Hungary for a bit (as should Byz) to give Ear a chance to recover - after all, the occupied territory was taken against the AI, which is hardly a fair match. Or we could let Ear choose a Hungarian Duke of his dynasty, one with a claim to his kingdoms, and see how much of Poland he can grab in the total and complete collapse that is certainly coming.
 
OK,

I see the links to the Mymap thread. Can't ya'll jst point me to the version I need to help with the province changing. There seem to be many options when I follow the links above. Again I work better with step by step directions. Just think if ya baby step me through it then the others wont have to ask ;)....


Ok, figured it out, yes yes, give me a little time and I do eventually catch on. I got the Mymap loaded into my EUII directory. Now to figure out where the conversion data file KoM needs work on is....

Ok, figured out another part. I'll take block 400-599 working on it now. I'll let ya know when I'm finished so you can check my work.


Traveler

...
 
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Trav, if you're uncertain you're doing it right, post your results for the first ten provinces, and we can check that. No need to do all 100 over again, if you should have gotten it wrong!
 
Good suggestions all of you. MyMap is the way to go.

And about me being abcent. It is a part of my plan. When I got back, and found that AI messed me up big time and being so close to conversion. I would have gone into EU2 with a fragment, if I were lucky I would held onto the heartland of Castille. Loosing everything else, Morroco, Alexandria, Mesopotamia, southern Iberia and chunks of Iberia. It would result in a power vacuum and a feeble power in Iberia without the strenght to do anything, ergo, it would become someones fish. Since the alternative was having it AId, still a stupid AI it would not suffer from bad rep, as I would. So therefore, I deemed it wisest to use this. If you think I am AI, then so be it. That punishment will still be much more gentle then seeing Iberia implode with 10 years left to EU2. If it where 70 or 100 years left I could have stood at the helm as the ship of Iberia imploded. But now? No way in hell. I want a realm, not a fragment of a realm.
 
So, Lurken, since you approve of MYmap, I assume you are volunteering to do some of the work? Please tell us which block you are working on, so there won't be any duplicated effort.

EDIT : As an aside, I do think that avoiding a collapse by not showing up is kinda gamey. Can I suggest that we then consider Spain to be fair game for a concerted effort at freeing Mesopotamia? Someone must have a claim on the thing; we can all attack Spain, grab the King title, and free it.

I have another aside : My RL schedule has heated up quite a lot, with no less than two presentations I have to give this week (one tomorrow morning, that I'm still generating the plots for :eek:o ); and then I have an important oral exam early next month. I will not be able to dedicate unlimited amounts of time to the converter. In the event that the MYmap converter is not finished the week we hit 1419, would people prefer to convert to vanilla, or can I (please?) have an extra week for the MYmap? My own vote is for MYmap, I really do think it is quite superior. But I understand that people are eager to get to EU2. So please set down your opinions on this.
 
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King of Men said:
So, Lurken, since you approve of MYmap, I assume you are volunteering to do some of the work? Please tell us which block you are working on, so there won't be any duplicated effort.
Which ones are free? Thought that I would be handed one block.

King of Men said:
EDIT : As an aside, I do think that avoiding a collapse by not showing up is kinda gamey. Can I suggest that we then consider Spain to be fair game for a concerted effort at freeing Mesopotamia? Someone must have a claim on the thing; we can all attack Spain, grab the King title, and free it.
Then do so. It is not like I can argue against it. But have it in mind that my absense is the fruit of having an idiot AI at the helm racking up BB, which I can't stop. If I racked up the BB, I would have stayed at the helm. But now? being penalized for a bad AI seems silly to me. I don't mind having AI running realms in CK, but when they performe gamebreaking actions, the fun is gone.

King of Men said:
I have another aside : My RL schedule has heated up quite a lot, with no less than two presentations I have to give this week (one tomorrow morning, that I'm still generating the plots for :eek:o ); and then I have an important oral exam early next month. I will not be able to dedicate unlimited amounts of time to the converter. In the event that the MYmap converter is not finished the week we hit 1419, would people prefer to convert to vanilla, or can I (please?) have an extra week for the MYmap? My own vote is for MYmap, I really do think it is quite superior. But I understand that people are eager to get to EU2. So please set down your opinions on this.

I wouldn't mind waiting a big. Heck I am even prepared to wait three weeks for the conversion be complete.
 
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Lurken said:
Then do so. It is not like I can argue against it. But have it in mind that my absense is the fruit of having an idiot AI at the helm racking up BB, which I can't stop. If I racked up the BB, I would have stayed at the helm. But now? being penalized for a bad AI seems silly to me. I don't mind having AI running realms in CK, but when they performe gamebreaking actions, the fun is gone.

I think most of the civil wars where caused by people letting the AI run their country. I know England's last was caused by me missing only 1 hour of game time, during which the AI racked up a -16 BB penalty. BUT, I having gone through the AI screwing your country thing, have no real problem with your plan and was going to suggest it anyway.

As to the MyMap thing, I will TRY to set aside some time, but I am always busy with work these days (one of the bad things of being part of a startup, you work your ass off, though much more happily I have to say), but I cannot guarantee anything.
 
Right you are, Lurken, please do the block 500-599, thus :

Code:
500;Serdica;3;356;DORO;BULG
501;Naissus;2;363;VIDI;SERB
502;Rashka;2;363;DSER;SERB
503;Hum;4;364;BOSN;SERB
504;Rama;2;364;BOSN;SERB
505;Belgrade;3;355;BELG;SERB
506;Vidin;3;355;VIDI;SERB
507;Nikopolis;3;356;DORO;BULG
508;Dorostotum;1;321;DORO;BULG
509;Karvuna;1;321;VARN;BULG
510;Constantia;1;320;VARN;BULG
511;Galaz;2;320;VARN;BULG
512;Belgorod;3;319;MOLD;CUMA
513;Birlad;3;318;WALL;HUNG
514;Turnu;2;322;WALL;HUNG
515;Tirgoviste;2;322;WALL;HUNG
516;Severin;2;322;WALL;HUNG
517;Temes;2;354;TEME;HUNG
518;Bacs;2;354;PECS;HUNG
519;Feher;1;323;TEME;HUNG
520;Bihar;3;323;PEST;HUNG
521;Csanad;2;324;PEST;HUNG
522;Pest;4;324;PEST;HUNG
523;Heves;3;324;PEST;HUNG
524;Gemer;3;325;SLOV;HUNG
525;Orava;1;316;SLOV;HUNG
526;Cieszyn;4;299;KRAK;POLA
527;Krakowskie;6;300;KRAK;POLA
528;Sieradzko-Leczyckie;5;300;KRAK;POLA
529;Plock;5;291;MAZO;POLA
530;Czersk;4;292;SAND;POLA
531;Sandomierskie;5;292;SAND;POLA
532;Sacz;4;299;KRAK;POLA
533;Saris;1;316;SLOV;HUNG
534;Peremyshl;3;298;SAND;POLA
535;Vladimir Volynsky;3;298;SAND;POLA
536;Galich;7;298;GALI;RUSS
537;Bereg;1;317;GALI;HUNG
538;Abauj;1;317;GALI;HUNG
539;Marmaros;1;317;TORK;HUNG
540;Szekelyföld;1;323;TORK;HUNG
541;Peresechen;2;318;TORK;HUNG
542;Olvia;2;319;MOLD;CUMA
543;Oleshye;6;296;MOLD;CUMA
544;Korsun;2;297;KIEV;RUSS
545;Torki;2;318;TORK;HUNG
546;Terebovl;4;297;KIEV;RUSS
547;Kiev;9;295;KIEV;RUSS
548;Pinsk;1;293;TURO;LITH
549;Beresty;2;293;TURO;LITH
550;Minsk;2;287;SMOL;LITH
551;Mstislavl;3;287;SMOL;RUSS
552;Turov;2;294;SMOL;RUSS
553;Lyubech;5;294;SMOL;RUSS
554;Chernigov;8;295;PERE;RUSS
555;Pereyaslavl;7;295;PERE;RUSS
556;Chortitza;4;462;PERE;CUMA
557;Lukomorie;2;463;CRIM;CUMA
558;Lower Dniepr;2;463;CRIM;CUMA
559;Crimea;4;463;CRIM;CUMA
560;Cherson;4;464;CHER;BYZA
561;Theodosia;3;464;CHER;BYZA
562;Korchev;2;464;CHER;CUMA
563;Lower Don;3;463;CRIM;CUMA
564;Desht-i-Kipchak;5;460;PERE;CUMA
565;Sharukan;5;461;PERE;CUMA
566;Sugrov;4;460;PRON;CUMA
567;Novgorod Seversky;6;450;PRON;RUSS
568;Smolensk;6;285;SMOL;RUSS
569;Vyazma;3;279;SMOL;RUSS
570;Tver;5;278;TVER;RUSS
571;Uglich;2;270;TVER;RUSS
572;Yaroslavl;3;270;YARO;RUSS
573;Pereyaslavl Zalessky;6;279;ROST;RUSS
574;Rostov;5;279;ROST;RUSS
575;Moskva;5;286;MOSK;RUSS
576;Bryansk;3;286;SMOL;RUSS
577;Pronsk;1;450;PRON;RUSS
578;Kolomna;2;449;VLAD;RUSS
579;Mordva;3;451;RYAZ;NONE
580;Ryazan;5;449;RYAZ;RUSS
581;Murom;3;449;RYAZ;RUSS
582;Vladimir;6;449;VLAD;RUSS
583;Suzdal;5;448;SUZD;RUSS
584;Nizhny Novgorod;2;448;RYAZ;RUSS
585;Gorodez;1;448;SUZD;RUSS
586;Galich Mersky;2;272;SUZD;RUSS
587;Mozhaysk;3;272;CHEE;RUSS
588;Merya;3;447;CHEE;NONE
589;Grassland Cheremisa;4;447;CHEE;NONE
590;Chuvash;3;452;CHEE;NONE
591;Mountain Cheremisa;4;452;CHEE;NONE
592;Burtasy;6;451;RYAZ;NONE
593;Khopyor;3;451;DONA;CUMA
594;Sarkel;4;459;DONA;CUMA
595;Don portage;3;459;DONA;CUMA
596;Tana;1;466;AZOV;CUMA
597;Azov;1;466;AZOV;CUMA
598;Tmutarakan;6;465;CHER;CUMA
599;Kuban;1;466;NONE;6716

Not looking so bad now; the remaining text files are stuff that can, by and large, be automated. I'll give a shout if I need any more help. :)
 
So, are I and Trav the only ones with opinions on the Hungarian Problem? Really, people, we are getting on for the weekend. Please chime in with your votes. The possibilities are :

- Trav's Middle Eastern Peace Solution
- Go back to autosave, fight it out (with some help for Hungary)
- Let Ear play a Duke, watch Sterk's empire collapse.

Vote, curse you!
 
It would be up to Ear. As I hate people being penalized for having bad AI. So the first option goes.

If Ear wouldn't mind playing a duke, however we are close to the conversion and thus it is very uncertain to what kind of powerbase Ear will have in EU2.

So I would vote for the autosave, with the condition that Ear doesn't want any of the other options.
 
or can I (please?) have an extra week for the MYmap?
An extra week should be fine:
- we could all use an extra free time for a little rest and preparation for much more faster EU2 play
- we could use that week for recruiting players

So, are I and Trav the only ones with opinions on the Hungarian Problem?
No, I posted that I vote for going back to autosave.
 
binTravkin said:
An extra week should be fine:
- we could all use an extra free time for a little rest and preparation for much more faster EU2 play
- we could use that week for recruiting players

Which are good things both, since we might require to do some testruns to see if everything works as planned. Decide on events and to recruit new players, which should be easier in the EU2MP forum.
 
I'll throw in on the side of returning to the autosave...
 
I need the save first, but ill probably vote for the autosave. Somebody who has got the save, plz call me at icq. :)