New provinces to Northern Europe

[Entrone]

Hello guys!
Welcome to my suggestion of reworking, perfecting Northern Europe
As the feedbacks are looking positive, i will try to polish this suggestion, so when the time comes we will have a nice rework for the region.

Table of contents:
I. Map changes:

1. Scotland
2. Scandinavia
3. Bothnia and Finland
4. Karelia
5. Baltic
6. Prussia

II. Miscellaneous (under development)

1. Events
2. Missions
3. National Ideas

I. Map Changes

1. Scotland

While Scotland got a buff recently, it still feels lacking. England usually easily conquer it until 1500 in one or two wars. So i propose to give more strength and detail to the lowland parts, by dividing it into Central Lowlands and Aberdeen states.

New provinces (capital): trade good, terrain
Moray (Elgin): fish, highland <--- North of Aberdeen.
Angus/Forfar (Dundee): wool/cloth, farmland/highland <---South of Aberdeen.
Lanark (Glasgow): iron, farmland <---Between Lothian and Ayrshire, so you can't move directly between them.
Fife (St. Andrews): livestock, grassland <--- Small, yet important.
Durham (Durham): iron/grain?, grassland <--- South of Northumbria, not part of it.

Minor corrections:
-Put the island of Bute to Argyll province, as it's not even part of the Hebrides.
-Norway could have some missions, regarding the Isles, as it was colonised by them and ruled until 1266.
-Move the CoT from Ayrshire to Lanark (Maybe also the coal, as it was mined in both places, see sources).
-Change the terrain of Argyll, Perth and Aberdeen to Highland from Hills, Change Inverness to Mountains from Highland.
-Move the coal from Northumbria to Durham.
-New Aberdeen state: Aberdeen, Moray, Angus/Forfar.
-Border fixed for Argyll, Perth, Inverness.

Sources:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/sct_cmap.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Palatine_of_Durham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus,_Scotland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee
http://www.wwmm.org/immagini/z_1716.jpg


2. Scandinavia

Scandinavia is one of the best regions in the game, yet it needs a few provinces to be perfect. For example the enormous capital provinces. Besides Sweden is lacking the might to carry out it's historical role, and be a decent rival for Russia or Poland in it's own. So they would need at least a slight buff.

New provinces (capital): trade good
Buskerud (Tonsberg): fur <--- Western half of Akerhus, that was separated from it in the 17th century.
Hedemark (Kongsvinger): naval sup/fur <---- Eastern half of Opplanda.
Roskilde (Roskilde): naval supp/livestock <--- Capital of Denmark until 1443
Jönköping (Jönköping): livestock <--- Maybe a lvl1 CoT, as it was an important market town
Södermanland (Nyköping): fish/livestock <--- Southern part of current Stockholm
Uppland (Uppsala): grain <--- It was the center of the Archdiocese of Sweden

Minor changes:
-Rename the existing Tioharad province to Kronoberg, and change it's tradegood into grain (or maybe livestock)
-Rename Östergotland to Linköping, because that's the state's name.
-There could be an event for the founding of Gothenburg.
-The strait's danish end should be in Copenhagen province, not Roskilde.
-Now there's enough provinces for a decent Östra Svealand with Södermanland, Uppland, Stockholm and maybe Aland, so Bergslagen can be moved to Vastra Svealand state where it does belong.
-Sea tiles slightly redrawn to represen the Öresund better.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jönköping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buskerud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gothenburg


3. Bothnia and Finland

While the map projection shows this area a lot larger than it is really, some provinces are still awfully big (especially Halsingland, compared to being relatively on the south). Besides, Finnish provinces with this little polish perfectly reflect the area at the time. Red dots are the capitals of the -
New provinces (capital): trade good
Angermanland (Härnösand): fish <---Northern part of current Halsingland.
Kymmenegard (Heinola/Pyttis): fish <---Carved out of Savolax, Nyland and Viborg, alternative name Kymmenedalen.

Minor changes:
-Norrland state: Västerbotten, Angermanland, and Halsingland.
-Lappland and Jokkmokk to Laponia state.
-Ostrobothnia/Österbotten state and Enare redrawn.
-Birkaland merged with the northern part of Åbo to form Björneborg/Satakunda province (Ulsby).
-Finland Proper/Western Finland state: Åland, Satakunda, Åbo.
-The new Tavastia/Central Finland state: Nyland, Tavastland, Savolax, Kymmenegard.
-The region also lacks center of trades. Potential lvl1 CoTs: Åbo, Viborg.
-There could be an event in the 17th century for Sweden for the founding the town of Vaasa in Österbotten.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ångermanland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gävle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satakunta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turku


4. Karelia

There's the updated Karelia. You can see the new province in Finland, Kymmenegard.
So while thinking about possigle Karelian states, I realized that this also bothered me somewhat. And it's the extension of Karelian culture. And when I was looking for material I found that my new province is not just more aesthetic, but also historical. It helps to correct the Novgorod-Beloozero boerder. So the province:
Vytegra (Vytegra): fish, woods, novgorodian, to Beloozero state.

Minor changes:
-Laponia state: Lappland, Jokkmokk, Finnmark, Enare, Kola.
-Karelia state: Viborg, Karelen, Priozhersk/Kexholm, White Karelia, Olonets.
-Ingria state: Ingermanland, Neva, Ladoga.
-Change Ingermanland to Karelian culture. I would also like a Finnic culture group with Sapmi, Finnish, Karelian, and Estonian.
-Make Karelian an accepted culture of Novgorod, as they were allies against the Swedes.
-Fixed the border of White Karelia, Enare, Kola and Kajanaland. The grey line is the original border of Kola and White Karelia.
-Ladoga's capital should be Staraya Ladoga (it's viking name Aldeigjuborg could be used by germanic nations).

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vytegra
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/25/3c/ae253cf2eefb09e12aee7208b03f658a.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staraya_Ladoga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish–Novgorodian_Wars


5. Baltic

As it's already powerful neighbours, the russians and the polish got an update recently, the Livonian Order is in the dire situation at the start of the game. This could be eased somewhat by updating it's terribly outdated map. With green the capital of new provinces.

4 new provinces for Estonia:
Wiek/Laane (Hapsal/Haapsalu): fish <---There was the Bishopric of Wiek.
Pernau/Pärnu (same): naval supplies <--- Important town (possible lvl1 CoT), western part of Fellin.
Fellin/Viljandi (same): livestock <---The strongest castle of the Order.
Wesenberg/Rakvere: (same): grain <--- Quite important town, western half of Narwa.
and 2 for Latvia:
Windau/Ventspils (same): naval supplies <--- Was the main port of the Duchy of Courland.
Selburg/Selonia? (Selburg): livestock <---Carved out from Lettgallen and Mitau to represent Courland better.
(We could merge back the new Wesenberg province to Reval and Narwa, and unite Fellin and Pernau for a more conservative version, but we would still need to add a state, so if it has to be done, do it well.)

Minor changes:
-Change the trade good of Riga to something more prestigious, like cloth, and raise CoT to lvl2.
-Give Reval a lvl1 CoT and change trade good to salt? Change the trade good of Narwa to fish.
-Possible releasable tags: Bishopric of Dorpat, Bishopric of Wiek (Ösel-Wiek, claim on Ösel?).
-Estonia state: Ösel, Wiek, Reval, Wesenberg, Narwa.
-Livonia state: Dorpat, Fellin, Pernau, Wolmar.
-Courland state: Goldingen, Windau, Mitau, Selburg.
-And the new Vidzeme/Latgalia/Wenden state: Riga, Wenden, Dünaburg.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakvere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pärnu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viljandi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riga#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_regions_of_Latvia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenden_Voivodeship
http://www.mois.ee/kaart/kaart_eesti_eng.gif
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...1260.svg/2000px-Medieval_Livonia_1260.svg.png


6. Prussia

As I checked the neighbouring regions I realized Prussia definately belongs to this thread, so I decided to include it in my suggestion. Their main rival, Poland, and Lithuania got an update recently, with a new event, which led the Teutons in a dire situation. Not to mention the Baltic region right now is only 26 province, that's less than half of some other regions. And right next to the (likely soon updated) HRE, Prussia's provinces are enormous. With these changes we could not just represent the region historically more accurate, but also alleviate Prussia's problems. All we have to do is resurrecting the Pomerelia state, and add 3 provinces.
Let me introduce you the possible new provinces:
-Bütow (Lauenburg/Bütow): naval supplies, grassland, pomeranian/kashubian <--- Lauenburg and Bütow had been part of both Pomerania and the Teuton lands.
-Schwetz (same): livestock, grassland, prussian <---One of the oldest towns in the region, added by splitting Tuchel, better representing cultures (Swiecie in polish).
-Intersburg (same): grain, woods, prussian <--- Probably the biggest town in Eastern Prussia after Königsberg.

Minor corrections:
-Revive Pomerelia state: Danzig, Tuchel, Bütow, Schwetz
-West Prussia state: Marienburg, Ermland, Osterode, and maybe Kulm (which is currently in Kuyavia).
-East Prussia state: Königsberg, Intersburg, Ortelsburg, Memel.
-Ortelsburg could have Polish culture.
-Stolp, Bütow, and Tuchel could be Kashubian (West Slavic) culture. With this we could reflect the slavic presence at the region.
-Maybe lvl1 CoT for Kulm?
-Redrawn several provinces to fix borders.

Sources:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Polska_1386_-_1434.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Teutonic_Order_1410-es.svg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/K0nigl+BherzoglPreussen_en.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...huania_-_Geographicus_-_Prussia-cary-1799.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernyakhovsk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Świecie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauenburg_and_Bütow_Land
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Netzedistrict1786.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians
http://en.kaszubia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/16401.png


So in total these changes would give 4 new provinces to Scotland, 1 to England, Denmark, Norway, and Novgorod, 3 to Teutonic Order, 5 to Sweden and 6 to Livonian Order.
Thank you for your attention and feel free to add something to the topic

II. Miscellaneous (Under development!)
1. Events.
-Founding the town of Vaasa
-Founding the town of Gothenburg
-Gotland pirate nation on ruler death.
2. Missions
-Hebrides for Norway.
-Estonia for Sweden.
-Colonial mission's for Denmark (Caribbean, Gold Coast, maybe even India -Frederiksøerne, Tranquebar)
-Eastern expansion for Sweden and Denmark.
3. National ideas

Previous similar suggestions:
Minor redraw of Sea provinces around Bornholm: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/borders-of-southern-baltic-sea.1035316/ by TheDungen
Baltic patch general stuff: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ndic-nordic-patch-general-suggestion.1046616/ by AirikrStrife
Improvements to Livonia: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-changes-in-baltic-sea.1003803/ by Nikita Dirigable
Scotland: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ce-glasgow-or-strathclyde-to-scotland.979713/ by gronak

(Changelog:
- Updated Bothnia and Finland: New province: Kymmenegard, merged Satakunda with Birkaland, reworked Bothnia.
- Updated the Baltic: Merged Rositten&Dünaburg, Wenden stays united, reworked states.
- Added Karelia: New province: Vytegra, reworked states around Karelia
- Updated Scotland: Changed Lanark, now it has a port, not Perth.
- Added Prussia: New provinces: Bütow, Insterburg, Tilsit. Revive Pomerelia state.
- Updated Bothnia: Gastrikland merged back to Halsingland, reworked states.
- Updated Prussia: New province: Schwetz, Tilsit merged back to Memel.
- Updated Scandinavia: New province: Hedemark. Vestfold removed. Sea tiles slightly redrawn.
Thanks to AirikrStrife, gronak, and qweyt for the suggestions. )

 

[qweyt]

I've red the same wiki article, and a few other too, but I didn't find a town inhabited continuously since 1444. So Mussor could be it's capital until the event for founding Vaasa/Korsholm, if it gets implemented.
Events for city founding could be a thing in EU4. In northern Europe a lot of towns were founded in the Eu4 timeline. For example Vaasa and Gothenburg, to mention the probably most important ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsholm
The original name was written as Mustasaari in Swedish as well. Mussor was apparently just the way the Swedes pronounced the Finnish name. It was not a very big town, and it was next to the Korsholm castle that was founded in 1384. Usually the capitals are named after towns or cities, so Mustasaari would be the most consistent option, but in this case I would not consider Korsholm to be wrong either, as the castle might have been more significant than the town. There were other towns of roughly similar significance in the province, but without a castle. And since the later capital of Vaasa was founded very close, I think Mustasaari/Korsholm would be the best capital in 1444.

 

[AirikrStrife]

This Finland looks really good! A note on names, PDX often uses a bit ahistorical cities or province names, it is sort of necessary in many places, but I guess that's a bit personal too

I wouldn't have added the Gästrikland province, instead have it with Hälsingland, and move the border of Ångermanland/västernorrland south to encompas all of medelpad. This corresponds to the county divisions in the area that occasionally existed during the euiv timeline.

I agree with your handling the the karelia areas. Ingermanland, Neva and Ladoga can be called Ingria

Do you have an estimate on the total development for sweden after your changes?

 

[Entrone]

Maybe a decent restriction for Livonian lands would be not to add any new areas, and as each area can have most 5 provinces,

Estonia: Ösel, Wiek, Tallin, Narva, Dorpat
Livonia: Fellin/Pärnu, Wolmar, Wenden, Latgalia/Dünaburg, Riga
Kurland: Goldingen, Mittau, Selburg/Selonia

It would add Wiek in Estonia,
Split Liefland into estonian (Pärnu/Fellin) part and latvian (Wolmar)

Add a province for the Couronian panhandle making the borders accurate and making the Curonian area have 3 provinces. I guess I could see a forth province in Curonia, Piltene for the polish province which weren't part of the duchy of Kurland

I don't see why you want to split Latgalia further for historical borders? Remove the strip of land to the south of the Daugava river would make the province accurate. (Dünaburg were always in the commonwealth)

I would like to portray well this region, as it stands close to my heart. Your proposal is quite decent on it also, or at leat concerning Latvia, but for the Estonian side i feel bad. Now we could have a state of it either way:
-Dorpat is part of it, but then also Pernau and/or Fellin, representing mainland current Estonia
-Dorpat, Pernau and/or Fellin are rather part of Livonia, representing Duchy of Estonia

In your version, just like in the game right now, only Dorpat is part of Estonia, so it's not correct at all, regarding historical states.

 

[AirikrStrife]

For a future Baltic sea area patch, these map changes, bunch of new mission for the nords and a revision of swedish and danish ideas woud be great!

Estonia

Problem is to keep it to five provinces per state. it would look nicer with estonia being Wiek, Reval, Narva and Ösel
But Livland can't have all of Fellin, Wolmar, Wenden, Dorpat, Daugaupils, Riga.

I don't think adding more provinces to the areas are feasible, though Ösel (not Dagö) were considered part of Livonia by the swedes,

one new area, Wenden(?), could be added

Estonia: Wiek, Reval, Narva
Livonia: Dorpat, Fellin, Ösel, Wolmar
Wenden: Wenden, Riga, Daugaupils,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Livonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenden_Voivodeship

Drawback of this proposal is that Ösel wouldn't have direct access to the rest of the area

 

[AirikrStrife]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/can-we-have-better-danish-nis.1085381/
And thinking of swedish age ability, I would rather have something adding shock damage to swedish units as that's what really made the swedish army stand out in the age


https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/scandinavian-mission-trees.1085530/

 

[Entrone]

So there's the Baltic v2.0:

Changes:
-Rositten merged back into Lettgallen
-Same fate for Aluksne/Marienburg (there is already a Marienburg anyways)
-Conservative version: just orange, Expansionist version: orange and green.

States:
Estonia: Ösel, Wiek, Reval, Narwa and possibly Wesenberg
Livonia: Liefland/Wolmar, Dorpat, Fellin, possibly Pernau
Wenden/Lettgallen?: Lettgallen/Dünaburg, Wenden, Riga
Courland/Kurland: Windau, Goldingen, Mitau, Selonia/Selburg

I don't think my "expansionist" version would be too much/ too op

 

[Entrone]

This Finland looks really good! A note on names, PDX often uses a bit ahistorical cities or province names, it is sort of necessary in many places, but I guess that's a bit personal too

Thanks, and also the contribution

I wouldn't have added the Gästrikland province, instead have it with Hälsingland, and move the border of Ångermanland/västernorrland south to encompas all of medelpad. This corresponds to the county divisions in the area that occasionally existed during the euiv timeline.

Do you have an estimate on the total development for sweden after your changes?

Sweden changed the administrative borders frequently, and if we would split down both provinces we could form the Halsingland state, which would be a cool transition from Svealand state to Bothnia state. Norrland state wouldnt let us to have 6 provinces in it, to be accurate, and as we mentioned Lappland and Jokkmokk could be part of Laponia.
So the remaining area is just a perfect Halsingland state with it's 3 provinces.
For example 1560:

This would mean 6 new provinces for Sweden (1 in Finland), let's say they will have 4 development on average, thats 24 development.

 

[AirikrStrife]

Thanks, and also the contribution



Sweden changed the administrative borders frequently, and if we would split down both provinces we could form the Halsingland state, which would be a cool transition from Svealand state to Bothnia state. Norrland state wouldnt let us to have 6 provinces in it, to be accurate, and as we mentioned Lappland and Jokkmokk could be part of Laponia.
So the remaining area is just a perfect Halsingland state with it's 3 provinces.
For example 1560:

This would mean 6 new provinces for Sweden (1 in Finland), let's say they will have 4 development on average, thats 24 development.

I like the updated baltic map a lot! Not too crowded.

That is a map of swedish lands (sv:landskap) (btw, do you speak swedish?) they have essentially not been an administrative unit since the middle ages, I agree sometimes they're good to base provinces on though.

 

[Entrone]

I like the updated baltic map a lot! Not too crowded.

Thanks, I'm glad you like it

That is a map of swedish lands (sv:landskap) (btw, do you speak swedish?) they have essentially not been an administrative unit since the middle ages, I agree sometimes they're good to base provinces on though.

Honestly, no, but I manage to get the point
Well, my point with them is to show that even though it's quite a northern part, we can fit a state nicely between our supported Bothnia state.
Only Gavleborg/Halsingland and Vasternorrland(i don't like this name)/Angermanland couldnt make a state, maybe if we would snatch Jamtland for this, but the Norrland name would feel weak for this. Besides that quite little Gastrikland fits well among those big other provinces imo .

I'm going to add Karelia to the suggestion, and let's see those states!

 

[gronak]

1. Scotland

While Scotland got a buff recently, it still feels lacking. England usually easily conquer it until 1500 in one or two wars. So i propose to give more strength and detail to the lowland parts, by dividing it into Central Lowlands and Aberdeen states.

New provinces (capital): trade good
Moray (Elgin): fish <--- north of Aberdeen
Angus/Forfar (Dundee): naval supplies/livestock <---south of Aberdeen
Lanark (Lanark): iron <---between Lothian and Ayrshire, so you can't move directly between them
Fife (Falkland): livestock/fish/cloth? <--- dotted because maybe it's too small?
Durham (Durham): iron/naval supp? <--- put the coal from Northumbria to there

Minor corrections:
-Put the island of Bute to Argyll province, as it's not even part of the Hebrides.
-Maybe Outer Hebrides could have norwegian culture, as it was colonised by them and ruled until 1266?
-Perth province should have a port.
-There could be an event for the founding of Glasgow, which gives/develops a CoT at Ayrshire.
-Personally I don't like the idea of Scottish borders state, so imo it could also be divided.

Sources:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/sct_cmap.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Palatine_of_Durham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moray
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus,_Scotland

Moray is fine.
Angus is fine - Dundee was a well developed city.
Lanark should be called Lanarkshire, should extend to the west coast - Lanarkshire contains Glasgow which is on the river clyde which goes to the irish sea. Extremely important city towards the second half of the game, even at the start of the game it had a university. Major trading port - the first european port to recieve trade from the america by two weeks.
Fife was a well developed region too - it contains the city St Andrews, the birthplace of Golf and important town.


Island of bute should definately be in the Ayrshire province - this is where it has always been administered from.
Outer hebridies should not have norweigan culture, it was Gaelic both before and after the Vikings.
As I said earlier, Glasgow is within the Lanarkshire province. Seperate from Ayrshire.
Scottish 'borders' is fine imo - Scotland and england both wanted control of this region, the border was constantly changing slightly back and forth.

Argyll should probably have its capital as Dumbarton, it's an old town, was the capital of the kingdom of Strathclyde. As far as I know it was the biggest and best developed city within the province as drawn in game.

West MArch and East march are both horrible province names. West march should be called Dumfries and East March could be Berwick.

This was my Scotland, I made this before the new provinces in Britain were added.

This is how Lanark should look.

Stirling is a possible province, it was an old town with a good castle. This castle blocked the English army from advancing further north.

 

[Entrone]

Moray is fine.
Angus is fine - Dundee was a well developed city.
Lanark should be called Lanarkshire, should extend to the west coast - Lanarkshire contains Glasgow which is on the river clyde which goes to the irish sea. Extremely important city towards the second half of the game, even at the start of the game it had a university. Major trading port - the first european port to recieve trade from the america by two weeks.
Fife was a well developed region too - it contains the city St Andrews, the birthplace of Golf and important town.
Durham should possibly have the city Berwick upon Tweed as its capital - the city swapped between Scotland and England a lot, so has a blend of Scottish and English culture/language.

Thanks for the feedback
Lanark could have the name Lanarkshire, but as in it's the case with most of Britain's shires, then it would be written with ridiculously small letters. Imo we can leave the shire, how it was in the case of Derby.
I redrawn slightly my Lanark province, so now it definately contains Glasgow, but i would't like to spread it until the sea. Even if we give Renfrewshire with Glasgow to Lanark, it has minimal coastline, and looks strange. Also, the point of Lanark province is to have an inland province between the two coastal provinces.
What about putting Glasgow to the Ayrshire province, and ask for a city founding event, like in the case of Gothenburg? That would also justify the CoT here.

Island of bute should definately be in the Ayrshire province - this is where it has always been administered from.
Outer hebridies should not have norweigan culture, it was Gaelic both before and after the Vikings.
As I said earlier, Glasgow is within the Lanarkshire province. Seperate from Ayrshire.
Scottish 'borders' is fine imo - Scotland and england both wanted control of this region, the border was constantly changing slightly back and forth.

Argyll should probably have its capital as Dumbarton, it's an old town, was the capital of the kingdom of Strathclyde. As far as I know it was the biggest and best developed city within the province as drawn in game.

This was my Scotland, I made this before the new provinces in Britain were added.

This is how Lanark should look.

Stirling is a possible province, it was an old town with a good castle. This castle blocked the English army from advancing further north.

As i found Bute was with Argyll, not Ayrshire.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shires_of_Scotland
Okay, no norwegian culture, but some missions for norway could be cool.
Okay, let the borders be.
Dumbarton isn't in historical Argyll province, so i wouldn't change that.

Quite a nice Scotland, but I think my Aberdeen state is better. I was considering adding Sterling, but now I would avoid adding it, as provinces there shouldn't be even smaller.

I will think about this Lanark question.

 

[gronak]

Thanks for the feedback
Lanark could have the name Lanarkshire, but as in it's the case with most of Britain's shires, then it would be written with ridiculously small letters. Imo we can leave the shire, how it was in the case of Derby.
I redrawn slightly my Lanark province, so now it definately contains Glasgow, but i would't like to spread it until the sea. Even if we give Renfrewshire with Glasgow to Lanark, it has minimal coastline, and looks strange. Also, the point of Lanark province is to have an inland province between the two coastal provinces.
What about putting Glasgow to the Ayrshire province, and ask for a city founding event, like in the case of Gothenburg? That would also justify the CoT here.



As i found Bute was with Argyll, not Ayrshire.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shires_of_Scotland
Okay, no norwegian culture, but some missions for norway could be cool.
Okay, let the borders be.
Dumbarton isn't in historical Argyll province, so i wouldn't change that.

Quite a nice Scotland, but I think my Aberdeen state is better. I was considering adding Sterling, but now I would avoid adding it, as provinces there shouldn't be even smaller.

I will think about this Lanark question.

That's fair, I'd be happy with it named Lanark in this case. Renfrewshire should definitely be given to Glasgow - Glasgow became a major commerce city. Had America been colonised sooner by Britain, it is very likey for the explosion in Glasgow's population in the 19th century to have happened sooner. The river Clyde belongs to Glasgow, which is what it would fully own if we give Lanark Renfrew. Glasgow also built many, many ships. There is no need for an inland province between Ayr and Edinburgh, previously you said it would be a province between them so they can't march straight from Ayr to Edinburgh, which this would still achieve. Parts of the river should be sea, which would give a bigger coastline, but I doubt this will ever be changed, so I think it is ok to do what I did in my mod and take a slither of Ayrshire to make it easier to notice it's a coastal province. Anyway, Renfrewshire was a part of lanarkshire until 1402, so it is really fitting to give Lanark Renfrew, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire.

Glasgow should not be in the Ayrshire province, Glasgow was the capital of Lanark.

Apologies, I meant to type the isle of Arran, which is the island we are discussing. The isle of bute is currently attached to the mainland in game because of bad heighmaps. But you are right anyway, I remembered wrong and got confused - it's today it's administered from there. In the games timeline it makes more sense to be a part of Argyll. It makes no sense for it to be a part of the inner hebridies, that's for sure.

I agree, missions for Norway would definitely be cool if there isn't already!

Yep, really the Dumbartonshire province should be given to Lanarkshire, rather than Argyll as it is now. If Dumbartonshire remains in Argyll, then Dumbarton would make the most sense even if it wans't historically a part of Argyll - there were no notable towns that I could find for Argyll at the game start (Although almost anything would have been better than the few houses at 'Loch Awe'!). Midway through the game it should be Campbeltown - assuming Dumbarton isn't in the province. In my mod I gave lanark/stirling Dumbartonshire. It is possible to merge all Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, Dumbartonshire and Stirling, it would create a central province spanning coast to coast however. Should this happen, it is important the harbour is on the west side - the name of the sea surrounding the isle of Arran is the firth of the Clyde - the river on which Glasgow owns and operated on.

This is how the province could be - the country in ayrshire is the dotted line that could be added to Lanarkshire to give it some coast to make it more visible because of the poor heightmap in game. With Lanark having the Stirlingshire province, it could have a fort and act as the gateway fort to the north, as Stirling/Stirling castle was. The map is from the 18th century.
In game this would look like this, but neater:

Worth noting that Argyll should extend farther north, up to the green line. Can't remember how it currently is in game, if it is like this already then good.

Your Aberdeen certainly looks nicer, and is historically accurate, I chose to give Elgin the province west of Aberdeenshire at the time and for some reason cut off parts of the province. If I were to remake this mod I wouldn't do it this way.

Currently Ayrshire has a CoT because of Glasgow's importance to trade. Should Lanark like I propose be added, the CoT should be given to Lanark instead. The city was built on trade, so I think as the CoT is upgraded / as more money is earned through trade from Lanark there should be events to show it's growing population.

 

[Entrone]

Karelia

So to be clear about the states, it was necessary to tackle Karelia, and it turned out we could have a new province there too:

In Sweden, that's our new province in Finland, Kymmenegard. But in Novgorod, that's Vytegra. While the town itself was founded 50 years later, it's the name of the river too, so we could go with that as the name of the capital also. It doesen't just help us representing the borders of Beloozero and Novgorod better, but also improves the range of karelian culture, and it's just more aesthetical.
Vytegra (Vytegra): fish, woods, novgorodian, beloozero state.

Minor changes:
-Fixed the border of White Karelia, Enare, Kola and Kajanaland.
-Ladoga's capital should be Staraya Ladoga (it's viking name Aldeigjuborg could be used by germanic nations)
-Laponia state: Lappland, Jokkmokk, Finnmark, Enare, Kola
-North Karelia state: Karelen, Kajanaland, White Karelia, Priozhersk/Kexholm
-South Karelia state: Ingermanland, Viborg, Neva, Ladoga, Olonets

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vytegra
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/25/3c/ae253cf2eefb09e12aee7208b03f658a.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sápmi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staraya_Ladoga

 

[Kane_hun]

Karelia

Could you suggest Karelian ideas? Afaik they are among the few nations in Europe to still have generic ideas (alongside Livonia and Iceland) You certainly know more about them than me, hence why I am asking.

 

[Entrone]

Could you suggest Karelian ideas? Afaik they are among the few nations in Europe to still have generic ideas (alongside Livonia and Iceland) You certainly know more about them than me, hence why I am asking.

Well it looks like the suggestion is getting more and more inaugurated but that's not a problem, let's check out those ideas nad missions!

 

[Thaif]

Allow me to obnoxiously suggest this.

Plus, I'll bookmark this thread for reference in modding. Assuming that's okay with the author? Plus Vytegra is kinda in the Vepsian cultural area so making it Karelian at the 1444 start sort of makes sense.
Vytegra(called Vytegorsky(?) until 1710) could have Naval Supplies as Trade Goods since it was an important route in southern Lake Onega and eventually had a shipyard from 1715 onward.

 

[Entrone]

Allow me to obnoxiously suggest this.

Plus, I'll bookmark this thread for reference in modding. Assuming that's okay with the author?

Wow, thanks for the ideas
Well, honestly I think some of your ideas are a bit overpowered(number 3 and 5 especially), considering a nation that wasn't independent, but I will use some of it, that's for sure.

Plus Vytegra is kinda in the Vepsian cultural area so making it Karelian at the 1444 start sort of makes sense.
Vytegra(called Vytegorsky(?) until 1710) could have Naval Supplies as Trade Goods since it was an important route in southern Lake Onega and eventually had a shipyard from 1715 onward.

Sadly the land of the Veps have already been overrun by russians, that's the main reason it's novgorodian. And it looks better with the also novgorodian Ladoga province.
I choose fish trade good, because there are already too much naval supplies and fur trade good in this region.

Maybe if we change the trade good of one of the other provinces with naval supplies around, we could have naval supp in Vytegra,
What about giving Olonets iron instead of fur?

And also, anyone has idea about how to divide Finland to states, as it's 6 province now?

 

[Entrone]

That's fair, I'd be happy with it named Lanark in this case. Renfrewshire should definitely be given to Glasgow - Glasgow became a major commerce city. Had America been colonised sooner by Britain, it is very likey for the explosion in Glasgow's population in the 19th century to have happened sooner. The river Clyde belongs to Glasgow, which is what it would fully own if we give Lanark Renfrew. Glasgow also built many, many ships. There is no need for an inland province between Ayr and Edinburgh, previously you said it would be a province between them so they can't march straight from Ayr to Edinburgh, which this would still achieve. Parts of the river should be sea, which would give a bigger coastline, but I doubt this will ever be changed, so I think it is ok to do what I did in my mod and take a slither of Ayrshire to make it easier to notice it's a coastal province. Anyway, Renfrewshire was a part of lanarkshire until 1402, so it is really fitting to give Lanark Renfrew, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire.

Glasgow should not be in the Ayrshire province, Glasgow was the capital of Lanark.

Apologies, I meant to type the isle of Arran, which is the island we are discussing. The isle of bute is currently attached to the mainland in game because of bad heighmaps. But you are right anyway, I remembered wrong and got confused - it's today it's administered from there. In the games timeline it makes more sense to be a part of Argyll. It makes no sense for it to be a part of the inner hebridies, that's for sure.

I agree, missions for Norway would definitely be cool if there isn't already!

Yep, really the Dumbartonshire province should be given to Lanarkshire, rather than Argyll as it is now. If Dumbartonshire remains in Argyll, then Dumbarton would make the most sense even if it wans't historically a part of Argyll - there were no notable towns that I could find for Argyll at the game start (Although almost anything would have been better than the few houses at 'Loch Awe'!). Midway through the game it should be Campbeltown - assuming Dumbarton isn't in the province. In my mod I gave lanark/stirling Dumbartonshire. It is possible to merge all Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, Dumbartonshire and Stirling, it would create a central province spanning coast to coast however. Should this happen, it is important the harbour is on the west side - the name of the sea surrounding the isle of Arran is the firth of the Clyde - the river on which Glasgow owns and operated on.

View attachment 441395
This is how the province could be - the country in ayrshire is the dotted line that could be added to Lanarkshire to give it some coast to make it more visible because of the poor heightmap in game. With Lanark having the Stirlingshire province, it could have a fort and act as the gateway fort to the north, as Stirling/Stirling castle was. The map is from the 18th century.
In game this would look like this, but neater:

Worth noting that Argyll should extend farther north, up to the green line. Can't remember how it currently is in game, if it is like this already then good.

Your Aberdeen certainly looks nicer, and is historically accurate, I chose to give Elgin the province west of Aberdeenshire at the time and for some reason cut off parts of the province. If I were to remake this mod I wouldn't do it this way.

Currently Ayrshire has a CoT because of Glasgow's importance to trade. Should Lanark like I propose be added, the CoT should be given to Lanark instead. The city was built on trade, so I think as the CoT is upgraded / as more money is earned through trade from Lanark there should be events to show it's growing population.

Well, you convinced me The Lanark province will get Dumbartonshire, and Stirling, expanding more to the north, and having a port But I wouldn't expand it out to the eastern coast, as Lothian and Fife need land connection, thus stripping Lanarkshire of that part. But now it will be huge enough that's for sure.

Do you have any suggestion regarding the trade goods, terrains, etc of Scotland?
And also, now I feel like, as Lanark got a port, maybe Perth shouldn't have? Because then every province of Scotland would have a port.
But as Perth is pretty inland, we could just move a border a bit and Fife and Angus could prevent Perth from accessing sea. I think it would represent it better.

 

[gronak]

Well, you convinced me The Lanark province will get Dumbartonshire, and Stirling, expanding more to the north, and having a port But I wouldn't expand it out to the eastern coast, as Lothian and Fife need land connection, thus stripping Lanarkshire of that part. But now it will be huge enough that's for sure.

Do you have any suggestion regarding the trade goods, terrains, etc of Scotland?
And also, now I feel like, as Lanark got a port, maybe Perth shouldn't have? Because then every province of Scotland would have a port.
But as Perth is pretty inland, we could just move a border a bit and Fife and Angus could prevent Perth from accessing sea. I think it would represent it better.

Lanark should have cloth/naval supplies with farmland terrain, Glasgow produced plenty of textiles, but it did then go on to be a ship building city. I think once Lanark gets to [x] development, there should be an event to switch the trade good to Naval supplies.

Dundee should produce cloth and be farmland, it is famed for its textiles industries. Alternatively, it could have livestock - there are many pig farms around Dundee today and that's not something commonly seen in Scotland, at least for all I have seen. There are many crop fields around here too, so you could argue it should be wheat (other staple foods such as turnips would have been grown at the time, not wheat).

Fife should be grassland, it's very flat.

Although Perth itself is in relatively flat lands, the province has a chunk of the Grampians mountain range. For that reason, I would recommend the highlands terrain.

Argyll should be highlands terrain.

Basically everything past the Highland boundary fault should be highlands.

Inverness could be a mountain province, Ben Nevis is within this province and is the tallest mountain in Britain. However it would also be perfectly fine for it to remain a highland terrain province.

I'd argue that the Inner Hebridies should be highlands too, the terrain in the biggest isle, the isle of Skye, is very highlandy.


I'm unsure on what the trade good in St Andrews would be, but it should be controlled by the clergy, it was a very religious town. It was also one of the most important pilgrimage sites in Europe. It should be fairly developed because it received a lot of trade and pilgrims, it had the first university in the English speaking world (sometime between 1410-1413). Since it's a coastal city I think fish would be ok.

Elgin should be fish, as far as I'm aware.

I don't see a problem with every Scottish province having a port, the country is narrow and on old maps provinces usually connect with the sea - which Scotland often relied on since they were constantly fighting with England. With that said, it wouldn't be the end of the world if there was no port for Perth.

 

[Entrone]

Lanark should have cloth/naval supplies with farmland terrain, Glasgow produced plenty of textiles, but it did then go on to be a ship building city. I think once Lanark gets to [x] development, there should be an event to switch the trade good to Naval supplies.

Dundee should produce cloth and be farmland, it is famed for its textiles industries. Alternatively, it could have livestock - there are many pig farms around Dundee today and that's not something commonly seen in Scotland, at least for all I have seen. There are many crop fields around here too, so you could argue it should be wheat (other staple foods such as turnips would have been grown at the time, not wheat).

Fife should be grassland, it's very flat.

Although Perth itself is in relatively flat lands, the province has a chunk of the Grampians mountain range. For that reason, I would recommend the highlands terrain.

Argyll should be highlands terrain.

Basically everything past the Highland boundary fault should be highlands.

Inverness could be a mountain province, Ben Nevis is within this province and is the tallest mountain in Britain. However it would also be perfectly fine for it to remain a highland terrain province.

I'd argue that the Inner Hebridies should be highlands too, the terrain in the biggest isle, the isle of Skye, is very highlandy.


I'm unsure on what the trade good in St Andrews would be, but it should be controlled by the clergy, it was a very religious town. It was also one of the most important pilgrimage sites in Europe. It should be fairly developed because it received a lot of trade and pilgrims, it had the first university in the English speaking world (sometime between 1410-1413). Since it's a coastal city I think fish would be ok.

Elgin should be fish, as far as I'm aware.

I don't see a problem with every Scottish province having a port, the country is narrow and on old maps provinces usually connect with the sea - which Scotland often relied on since they were constantly fighting with England. With that said, it wouldn't be the end of the world if there was no port for Perth.

Thanks for the suggestions!
I made Glasgow's trade good iron, to represent the heavy and mining industry, and later the coal mining in Lanark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanarkshire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow

But what about Ayrshire?

Coal mining: