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HugsAndSnuggles said:
Can someone help me with my math a bit?

I got:
  1. Sub3:
    • 36.2HP with doctrine
  2. cNav1s
    • 15 dmg
    • 7.5 targeting
    • Wing of 10
    • Actual damage per carrier sortie is 50% of sub3 HP
  3. 100% sortie efficiency (all various sources combined)
  4. Naval mission efficiency of 25%(?):
    • Doctrine (15%)
    • Admiral Skill (10%)
  5. Naval Aviation (expert):
    • Naval Air Attacks from Carriers: +6%
    • Naval Air Targeting from Carriers: +7%
    • Naval Air Agility from Carriers: +8%
  6. Naval Strike (expert):
    • Naval Bombing: +3%
    • Naval Targeting: +3%
    • Naval Agility: +3%
  7. 4 defence and 3 attack on respective admirals (no idea how much damage reduction that is for air... 20%? 5%?)
  8. No terrain/weather modifiers

Wiki states that damage is along the lines of:

[modified damage]*[amount of planes]

where
[amount of planes] is combination of:
Sortie Efficiency (assuming 100%)
and Naval Targeting (should be at 10% bonus)

resulting in: 1.1*7.5/10*30%=24.75% of planes hitting the target
(which is 2 or 3 - depending on how rounding works here)


[modified damage] is supposed to be a combination of:

[mandatory divisor] = 100
[carrier multiplier] = 6
[mission efficiency bonus] = 25%
[High Command Bonus] = 9(?)%
[Naval damage reduction multiplier] = 0.8(?)

which still results in something like 1 damage per plane... so, I suspect that I miss a lot of stuff in this second part (or Naval Targeting did not do its actual job).
Click to expand...
Do I understand correctly that you want to know why 10 cNAV1 in a naval battle deal ~18HP damage to a sub3 per sortie while your calculation expects ~2?

I think your calculation of number of attacking planes looks correct (and planes are rounded to the closest number).

Just like naval targeting, naval attack is divided by 10, not 100.

The damage of carrier planes is increased to 500%, not by 500%. (I.e. your carrier multiplier should be 5 instead of 6)

The above should put the result in the right ballpark. Verifying the full rundown of calculations from start to finish is really beyond quick questions quick answers.

It doesn't matter in this case, but sortie efficiency determines how many carrier wings can take part in a naval battle. It does not scale the planes within individual wings.
 
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Kaarle XII said:
Is there a way to force naval transportation? Because the pathfinding AI seems to always send troops via land if there is a connection, no matter how long.
Click to expand...

If the unit starts in a port you can click on the destination's port icon (and it needs to be the port icon NOT the province) to send the units by ship.

If you're talking about strategic deployment or the AI picking the path then no I don't think there is a way to force them by ship. I think it generally tries to avoid water due to early versions of the game having a LOT of units sunk in transit.
 
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bitmode said:
It doesn't matter in this case, but sortie efficiency determines how many carrier wings can take part in a naval battle. It does not scale the planes within individual wings.
Click to expand...
Really? I was under the impression that it's exact equivalent of "mission efficiency" (which, AFAIK, does exactly that: scales planes down within individual wings)... So this means that as long as you only have a single wing on a carrier you can overcrowd carrier 'till it's at something like 50% sortie efficiency and everything will work just fine during naval battle? or there's more to it?
 
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bitmode said:
You're right; I was thinking of the carrier stacking penalty.
Click to expand...
Speaking of: with each carrier over 4 having stacking penalty applied to it (reducing amount of wings that can take off from said carrier), does it mean that actual max size of carrier task force is 6 (provided you only put a single wing on each)?
 
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HugsAndSnuggles said:
Speaking of: with each carrier over 4 having stacking penalty applied to it (reducing amount of wings that can take off from said carrier), does it mean that actual max size of carrier task force is 6 (provided you only put a single wing on each)?
Click to expand...
The allowed wings are rounded down, which means you only get 3 bomber wings with 6 carriers.
 
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HugsAndSnuggles said:
Speaking of: with each carrier over 4 having stacking penalty applied to it (reducing amount of wings that can take off from said carrier), does it mean that actual max size of carrier task force is 6 (provided you only put a single wing on each)?
Click to expand...
What makes you think 6? If I remember correctly, the penalty per carrier is -20%. So you won't get any gains at 5 (5 * 80% = 4) and lose wings starting at 6 (6 * 0.6 = 3) carriers. (For bomber wings; carrier fighters are unaffected by the stacking limit)
 
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Was simply wondering how it works exactly (since I never bothered to experiment). It's like this:
  • A limit on number of launch-capable carriers is imposed (up to 1/5 with max penalty)
  • Carriers are then processed by ID:
    1. A check is made if carrier can send a sortie (no org = no sortie, for example)
    2. If not over limit (and has non-fighter wings), carrier is marked as "active" and sends planes to sortie:
      • fighters do not count towards limit and are always launched
      • this happens as long as carrier is in battle, meaning it will be "active" even with no org (or planes)
      • you can force a that check again by manually rearranging wings (swapping them between carriers in fleet)
    3. Carriers not marked as "active" will still launch their non-fighter wings as a fighter fodder (and, obviously, will launch their fighters)

So, when arranging a carrier fleet it goes like this:
4 carriers = no penalties (everything gets launched)
5 carriers = 4 carriers can launch (meaning you get a "free" fighter-only carrier)
6 carriers = 3 carriers can launch (meaning that by dedicating carriers you can bring 50% more planes with default 50/50 split)

going over that seems pointless, since it does not improve punch of your carrier force (and they are still kind of impotent against land-based strikes).
 
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bitmode said:
The penalty applies on a wing level, not carrier-level. 5 CV = 80% of bomber wings can launch, regardless of which CV they are located on.
Click to expand...
Why then only the first two carriers out of 10 I used got any credit for damage?
Why, when one of those carriers got its org knocked out, only a single carrier continued to get credit for damage done? (until I swapped wings around - then second and third started to get the credit*)
Why, when you inflate the number of wings on a couple of carriers (by pressing "D"), still only the first two carriers (with the lowest ID, I'm guessing) are getting credit for damage?

I'm getting a strong suspicion that actual wings have little to do with this penalty.

*wings were swapped between carriers: 1<->3 and 2<->4
 
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HugsAndSnuggles said:
Why then only the first two carriers out of 10 I used got any credit for damage?
Click to expand...
One possibility: the code calculates the penalty on a wing level, as bitmode describes. Having determined that N wings area allowed, the code chooses those wings out of all those available by simply taking the first N wings in the battle. What's "first"? Whatever order the code stores them in -- which is likely just iterating over each carrier and taking its wings. So, the same carrier(s) will have their wings chosen for each combat. (If it's just one battle, the "choose the wings" step could happen only at the start, so the favored carriers are the only ones doing damage at all.)

I think this thread's gotten a bit detailed for Quick Questions. How about making a new post in the forum to debate the details?
 
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Anaraxes said:
One possibility: the code calculates the penalty on a wing level, as bitmode describes. Having determined that N wings area allowed, the code chooses those wings out of all those available by simply taking the first N wings in the battle. What's "first"? Whatever order the code stores them in -- which is likely just iterating over each carrier and taking its wings. So, the same carrier(s) will have their wings chosen for each combat. (If it's just one battle, the "choose the wings" step could happen only at the start, so the favored carriers are the only ones doing damage at all.)
Click to expand...
That's why I was swapping wings between first 4 carriers carriers in the first place (without stopping the battle), but instead of carriers 3 and 4 getting the credit for damage, carriers 2 and 3 did: 1st was deorged and could not launch anymore (in later tests I confirmed that game does not exclude such carriers from "active" list on its own... at least, within a reasonable timeframe, or with AI disabled).

Anaraxes said:
I think this thread's gotten a bit detailed for Quick Questions. How about making a new post in the forum to debate the details?
Click to expand...
IDK, any point in that? (I kind of lost interest in this topic for now, since I seem to have got my answer)
 
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Does combat width help in destroying a pocket?

I mean, if you have a one-tile pocket that you need to destroy as fast as possible, and it has a load of enemies (enough to fill any combat width), is it better to attack from one side for 80w, or should I try to widen the combat to 120/160/200w? Assuming that I can only fill that extra width with subpar attacking units such as infantry.

(Assume pre-NSB combat widths for simplicity.)
 
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The infantry divsions do have some attack, especially from their artillery, so it will hasten up the demise, even if only a little. Assuming the infantry doesn't take up space and prevent tanks from getting in, of course :)

Attacking from enough directions will cause the enemy -30% atk and def; so definitely attack from multiple provinces, even if you only use tanks.

If you're lucky, piling in the extras will allow you to overcome their defense, but don't count on it; defense is high, inf+art attack low.

The infantry will soak up some of the damage, saving some equipment.


(However, if time is less crucial, it may better to only use the tank-divisions. Inf+art has no armor, no hardness and low breakthrough so they suffer far higher casualties ... but manpower, infantry equipment and artillery pieces are cheap, sadly.)
 
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