-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Starfire CMD class Heavy Fighter (P) 415 tons 6 Crew 420.7 BP TCS 8 TH 17 EM 0
17390 km/s JR 8-1500 Armour 1-4 Shields 0-0 HTK 4 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0-0 PPV 0
Maint Life 2.77 Years MSP 63 AFR 14% IFR 0.2% 1YR 12 5YR 178 Max Repair 180 MSP
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days Morale Check Required
J500(8-1500) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 500 tons Distance 1500k km Squadron Size 8
2029 FTR Solid Core AM Drive EP144.00 (1) Power 144 Fuel Use 1006.23% Signature 17.28 Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 0.86 billion km (13 hours at full power)
2029 Active Search Sensor AS133-R100 (1) GPS 10800 Range 133.3m km Resolution 100
Electronic Warfare Jammers: Missile 5
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a None for auto-assignment purposes
Starfire BL class Heavy Fighter (P) 450 tons 4 Crew 311.4 BP TCS 9 TH 17 EM 0
16017 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 HTK 2 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0-0 PPV 2.7
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 89% IFR 1.2% 1YR 45 5YR 680 Max Repair 180 MSP
Magazine 18 / 5
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days Morale Check Required
2029 FTR Solid Core AM Drive EP144.00 (1) Power 144 Fuel Use 1006.23% Signature 17.28 Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 0.8 billion km (13 hours at full power)
Size 6.00 Box Launcher 1973 (3) Missile Size: 6 Hangar Reload 122 minutes MF Reload 20 hours
Size 5 Decoy Launcher (1) Decoy Size: 5 Hangar Reload 111 minutes MF Reload 18 hours
2029 Missile Fire Control FC112-R100 (10%) (1) Range 112.4m km Resolution 100 ECCM-5
Avenger 2030 (3) Speed: 40,400 km/s End: 47.6m Range: 116.3m km WH: 0 Size: 6 TH: 134/80/40
Electronic Warfare Jammers: Missile 5
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Fighter for auto-assignment purposes
The Starfire CMD carries the squadron's jump drive and its AWACS.
It can squadron jump (ie: minimal jump shock) with up to seven non-jump companion Fighters at a time.
The squadron will arrive at (a random distance) up to 1.5 million km stand-off distance from the jump point itself.
The Starfire BL carries three box launchers loaded with our latest Avenger 2030 missile - ECCM-5, re-target capable, active terminal guidance.
Both the CMD and the BL versions carry ECM-5 jammers that make them immune to any non-ECCM missiles (ie: from AMM-PD ships).
The BL carries a Decoy Launcher to distract any ECCM-capable missiles.
They are nearly as fast as an Emotion squadron... some 2,400 kps faster than the enemy.
17390 km/s JR 8-1500 Armour 1-4 Shields 0-0 HTK 4 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0-0 PPV 0
Maint Life 2.77 Years MSP 63 AFR 14% IFR 0.2% 1YR 12 5YR 178 Max Repair 180 MSP
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days Morale Check Required
J500(8-1500) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 500 tons Distance 1500k km Squadron Size 8
2029 FTR Solid Core AM Drive EP144.00 (1) Power 144 Fuel Use 1006.23% Signature 17.28 Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 0.86 billion km (13 hours at full power)
2029 Active Search Sensor AS133-R100 (1) GPS 10800 Range 133.3m km Resolution 100
Electronic Warfare Jammers: Missile 5
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a None for auto-assignment purposes
Starfire BL class Heavy Fighter (P) 450 tons 4 Crew 311.4 BP TCS 9 TH 17 EM 0
16017 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 HTK 2 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0-0 PPV 2.7
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 89% IFR 1.2% 1YR 45 5YR 680 Max Repair 180 MSP
Magazine 18 / 5
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days Morale Check Required
2029 FTR Solid Core AM Drive EP144.00 (1) Power 144 Fuel Use 1006.23% Signature 17.28 Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres Range 0.8 billion km (13 hours at full power)
Size 6.00 Box Launcher 1973 (3) Missile Size: 6 Hangar Reload 122 minutes MF Reload 20 hours
Size 5 Decoy Launcher (1) Decoy Size: 5 Hangar Reload 111 minutes MF Reload 18 hours
2029 Missile Fire Control FC112-R100 (10%) (1) Range 112.4m km Resolution 100 ECCM-5
Avenger 2030 (3) Speed: 40,400 km/s End: 47.6m Range: 116.3m km WH: 0 Size: 6 TH: 134/80/40
Electronic Warfare Jammers: Missile 5
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Fighter for auto-assignment purposes
The Starfire CMD carries the squadron's jump drive and its AWACS.
It can squadron jump (ie: minimal jump shock) with up to seven non-jump companion Fighters at a time.
The squadron will arrive at (a random distance) up to 1.5 million km stand-off distance from the jump point itself.
The Starfire BL carries three box launchers loaded with our latest Avenger 2030 missile - ECCM-5, re-target capable, active terminal guidance.
Both the CMD and the BL versions carry ECM-5 jammers that make them immune to any non-ECCM missiles (ie: from AMM-PD ships).
The BL carries a Decoy Launcher to distract any ECCM-capable missiles.
They are nearly as fast as an Emotion squadron... some 2,400 kps faster than the enemy.
- 2
- 1
This actually looks like the antidote for a jump point ambush.
It might require a few hundred of them, though.
It might require a few hundred of them, though.
- 1
- 1
I figured you might like that suggestion
Though I'd still suggest a wild weasel screen jumping in 5 seconds earlier to soak up the missile cruisers' salvo.
- 2
Does that Avenger have a zero damage warhead or am I misreading that line?
- 1
That's the bus.
The warhead and the to-hit values that you see are for the lower-stage bus, not for the upper stage warhead.
It's a 9-factor warhead, with to-hits of 100% or more.
- 2
Another possibility is to leave out the engine and fuel, and carry extra weapons or ECM instead.
Immobile fighters... useful ONLY for breaking jump point blockades.
Immobile fighters... useful ONLY for breaking jump point blockades.
Ah.
What happens if we ignore the two stage concept for these guys for a second? Make it a single stage, short range missile because we're fighting for a jump point.
Not immobile, we do want to be able to run away from the Sarthes for a while.
Or fit them with beam weapons.
Plus, speed affects hit chances. That engine is also an important survivability tool.
How much cheaper would they be if you removed the engines and fuel and just made them smaller?
If they are intended purely as a break-up the JP weapon system, it strikes me that the main purpose is to be as cheap as possible while absorbing as many missiles as possible.
There might be a case to follow a wave of immobile ones with some mobile fighters who try and draw the Sarthes away from the JP?
Also, how much will 500 of these cost?
If they are intended purely as a break-up the JP weapon system, it strikes me that the main purpose is to be as cheap as possible while absorbing as many missiles as possible.
There might be a case to follow a wave of immobile ones with some mobile fighters who try and draw the Sarthes away from the JP?
Also, how much will 500 of these cost?
I'll poke around and try a few ideas.
The design posted above?
One Emotion costs as much as 30 of them.
Alternatively... a squadron of these puppies consists of one Starfire CMD plus seven Starfire BL. The squadron as a whole carries 21 missiles.
That costs 2,600 BPs. An Emotion costs 9,400 BPs. A Winged Hussar costs 16,000 BPs.
So four complete squadrons (which totals 84 missiles) costs a bit more than an Emotion, but much less than a Winged Hussar.
- 1
- 1
Here is our decoy missile. It impersonates 1000 tons of ship.
and a size-6 SRAM (Short Range Attack Missile):
Strength-16 warhead, ECCM-5, active terminal guidance, retarget capable, max range of 18 million km (less if the opponent has an ECM advantage).
and a size-6 SRAM (Short Range Attack Missile):
Strength-16 warhead, ECCM-5, active terminal guidance, retarget capable, max range of 18 million km (less if the opponent has an ECM advantage).
- 2
- 1
So if I have it correct, one emotion costs the same as about 30 of these? And the proposed plan is to jump in 2-300 of these to drain his missiles and hopefully inflict some damage before they die?
Would they really out perform just spending the same resources on Emotions? If I understand the proposal correctly these still seem excessively expensive.
Would they really out perform just spending the same resources on Emotions? If I understand the proposal correctly these still seem excessively expensive.
Or this one.
Only 64,000 kps and 10 million km range... but it spawns two decoy missiles to confuse the point defense.
First off...
We aren't just jumping two or three hundred of these in to drain his missiles. I would expect that many to cripple his fleet, in fact.
First, you need to understand jump shock. It lasts for 121-180 seconds (2-3 minutes) UNLESS you are squadron jumping, in which case it only lasts for 11-30 seconds instead. An average of 20 seconds in jump shock instead of an average of 150 seconds.
These puppies can squadron jump. An Emotion has no jump drive and cannot squadron jump, unless paired with an AWACS.
Second, you need to be aware that unlike the usual "standard jumps", a squadron jump does NOT land you on top of the jump point. Instead, it lands you in a random spot at some considerable distance from the jump point. At our tech level (and using the jump equipment given in my post above) we will land at a random point up to 1.5 million km from the jump point itself.
Recall that the enemy Sarthe has a maximum fire control range of 600,000 km.
Note that less than one-seventh of a 1,500,000 km radius disc is within 600,000 km of the center.
So these Fighters are actually FAR more survivable than you perhaps assume. Especially since they will land within range of his AMM-PD but are immune to them.
Each can carry three SRAMs plus decoys.
Only 64,000 kps and 10 million km range... but it spawns two decoy missiles to confuse the point defense.
First off...
We aren't just jumping two or three hundred of these in to drain his missiles. I would expect that many to cripple his fleet, in fact.
First, you need to understand jump shock. It lasts for 121-180 seconds (2-3 minutes) UNLESS you are squadron jumping, in which case it only lasts for 11-30 seconds instead. An average of 20 seconds in jump shock instead of an average of 150 seconds.
These puppies can squadron jump. An Emotion has no jump drive and cannot squadron jump, unless paired with an AWACS.
Second, you need to be aware that unlike the usual "standard jumps", a squadron jump does NOT land you on top of the jump point. Instead, it lands you in a random spot at some considerable distance from the jump point. At our tech level (and using the jump equipment given in my post above) we will land at a random point up to 1.5 million km from the jump point itself.
Recall that the enemy Sarthe has a maximum fire control range of 600,000 km.
Note that less than one-seventh of a 1,500,000 km radius disc is within 600,000 km of the center.
So these Fighters are actually FAR more survivable than you perhaps assume. Especially since they will land within range of his AMM-PD but are immune to them.
Each can carry three SRAMs plus decoys.
- 1
- 1
- 1
I was also forgetting about missile fire control saturation… the enemy only has 27 ASM fire controls.
How does it work if a fire control only fires some of the missile tubes assigned to it? Can it immediately fire the rest at a different target the next tick? Or does it need to wait the full reload cycle before it can use the other tubes?
How does it work if a fire control only fires some of the missile tubes assigned to it? Can it immediately fire the rest at a different target the next tick? Or does it need to wait the full reload cycle before it can use the other tubes?
- 1
Yes.
Each FC can fire once per 5-second tick, at the same or different target, as long as it has some loaded missile tubes to command.
- 1
So realistically, while dealing with small targets like these, we should expect to see up to 60 targeted within the first few ticks by their ASMs? However, if we get lucky we should also expect a large number to survive long enough to get their missiles off?
Exactly.
... and of those ships that do get targeted, the decoys should distract MOST of the first round of missiles.
Decoys absorb the opponent's fire in direct proportion to the comparative tonnages, modified by ECM/ECCM.
We will have ships massing less than 500 tons each (that's the upper limit for a Fighter) firing decoys that count as 1,000 tons each, reduced to 900 tons each by the opponent's ECCM-6 vs our ECM-5.
... so the enemy missiles have a 2-in-3 chance of being distracted by the decoys.
Of course, that uses up the decoys. The launchers are now empty.
But it might get us through the jump shock!
- 2
- 1
Do the decoys fire automatically? Or are they impacted by jump shock?
At 1.4 million kms, I calculated you have maybe 20 seconds flight time for the Modrons fast ASMs. If they get the fire pattern right, It sounds like we may not even be able to fire before they hit us.
At 1.4 million kms, I calculated you have maybe 20 seconds flight time for the Modrons fast ASMs. If they get the fire pattern right, It sounds like we may not even be able to fire before they hit us.
With ECM-5 missile launchers their AMM is largely irrelevant. The Starfires cannot be hit.
So the beauty of it is that the enemy has three weapons it can use with almost impunity those first 20-25 seconds.
AMM, which is countered fully by ECM.
ASM, which is partially countered by decoys, speed, and ECM, and overloading their fire control bandwidth.
Lasers, which can only hit targets in range and the Starfires can outrun them. So they only get to shoot at those that jump in close enough.
And after jump shock wears off these puppies have downright ridiculous firepower.
So the beauty of it is that the enemy has three weapons it can use with almost impunity those first 20-25 seconds.
AMM, which is countered fully by ECM.
ASM, which is partially countered by decoys, speed, and ECM, and overloading their fire control bandwidth.
Lasers, which can only hit targets in range and the Starfires can outrun them. So they only get to shoot at those that jump in close enough.
And after jump shock wears off these puppies have downright ridiculous firepower.
- 1
- 1