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I already wrote it on another thread, but I would like to put it here too.

Having played the beta (a little bit), I must say I vastly prefer the old system of districts and buildings only, which I think could be improved instead of discarted. I don't believe Paradox will abandon the new system, but I would like, nevertheless, to give my opinion on the changes the old system could have received.

About the districts, I believe (as others here) that creating more types would have been enough, instead of adding zones. However, it is on the buildings I would like to focus, as I like the immersion they provide to the game. Another person here suggested that buildings could have multiple upgrade paths, like research buildings had in the past, and I agree. Precinct Houses could be upgraded to the current Hall of Judgement, that further decreases crime, or to a more civil-focused court system, that reduces less crime but increases trade generation. Fortresses could be upgraded to a more navy-focused buiding, that further increases naval capacity, or to a more defensive version that makes the planet even more difficult to be invaded. The housing buildings could be upgraded to focus on more housing or more amenities (popular housing vs luxury housing). Even buidings like Psi Corps could follow this rule, like being able to be upgraded to a psionic monastery focused on unity or to a more repressive version focused on crime and stability.

Ethics could also influence this system. Holo-Theaters could, for example, be either upgraded to the more generic Hyper-Entertainment Forums or to an ethos version, like Gladitorial Arenas for militaristic empires or Elysium Parks for pacifistic ones, which could offer less amenities in exchange for increasing ethics attraction. I can think of many other examples that could make planetary management more tailored to each type of empire, which, in my opinion, would increase immersion.

I don't think, however, that all buidings should be planet unique; instead, the upgrade paths that should be unique. Using the reseach buildings as an example, I could have all specialized labs (society, physics and engineering) in a single planet, but, if I decided to build a fourth research building, I would not be able to upgrade it beyond the first level, discoraging its construction without actually prohibiting it.

Other buildings could even be added that serve to synergize with others, like an university buildings chain that increases overall planetary productivity on the first level and can be specialized to further increase engineering, physics or society output from scientists. In this case, if I wanted to specialize a planet on all science, instead of constructing a bunch of the same buildings, I could build a lab and a university for each specialization, consuming 6 buildings slots in total. Or I could focus on a single reseach path and use only 2 building slots.

Anyway, those are just some ideas I have. I admit I am a bit disappointed that the old system will simply be discarted instead of improved.
 
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I honestly think it is about both, the good and the bad. The devs need to know what is wanted and what is not so that they can take informed decisions.
Of course but they also got some things players may initially or permanently dislike because they also have their own vision. Theres a reason the planet UI has changed a few times and not everyone will be happy whenever changes happen, especially big ones. I love reading feedback, it gives me ideas on what i wanna do too.
 
I already wrote it on another thread, but I would like to put it here too.

Having played the beta (a little bit), I must say I vastly prefer the old system of districts and buildings only, which I think could be improved instead of discarted. I don't believe Paradox will abandon the new system, but I would like, nevertheless, to give my opinion on the changes the old system could have received.

About the districts, I believe (as others here) that creating more types would have been enough, instead of adding zones. However, it is on the buildings I would like to focus, as I like the immersion they provide to the game. Another person here suggested that buildings could have multiple upgrade paths, like research buildings had in the past, and I agree. Precinct Houses could be upgraded to the current Hall of Judgement, that further decreases crime, or to a more civil-focused court system, that reduces less crime but increases trade generation. Fortresses could be upgraded to a more navy-focused buiding, that further increases naval capacity, or to a more defensive version that makes the planet even more difficult to be invaded. The housing buildings could be upgraded to focus on more housing or more amenities (popular housing vs luxury housing). Even buidings like Psi Corps could follow this rule, like being able to be upgraded to a psionic monastery focused on unity or to a more repressive version focused on crime and stability.

Ethics could also influence this system. Holo-Theaters could, for example, be either upgraded to the more generic Hyper-Entertainment Forums or to an ethos version, like Gladitorial Arenas for militaristic empires or Elysium Parks for pacifistic ones, which could offer less amenities in exchange for increasing ethics attraction. I can think of many other examples that could make planetary management more tailored to each type of empire, which, in my opinion, would increase immersion.

I don't think, however, that all buidings should be planet unique; instead, the upgrade paths that should be unique. Using the reseach buildings as an example, I could have all specialized labs (society, physics and engineering) in a single planet, but, if I decided to build a fourth research building, I would not be able to upgrade it beyond the first level, discoraging its construction without actually prohibiting it.

Other buildings could even be added that serve to synergize with others, like an university buildings chain that increases overall planetary productivity on the first level and can be specialized to further increase engineering, physics or society output from scientists. In this case, if I wanted to specialize a planet on all science, instead of constructing a bunch of the same buildings, I could build a lab and a university for each specialization, consuming 6 buildings slots in total. Or I could focus on a single reseach path and use only 2 building slots.

Anyway, those are just some ideas I have. I admit I am a bit disappointed that the old system will simply be discarted instead of improved.
I feel like changing what players get used to eventually so many times isnt good. Of course the changes come from a place of benevolence as devs want to make things easier and better balanced but the current system could indeed be tweaked instead of completely overhauled. We will see how it turns out on release tho. Im more interested in the bio ascension content.
 
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I am wondering what generates civilian "Jobs" (where do they come from?) and wether if they should count as empolyed or unemployed.

Also
I hear they are currently uncapped. Should they be capped? And if so, by what? Should unemployed civilians exist?

Perhaps housing should be the thing that generates civilian jobs? As long as there is enough housing peoole should be able to get some of these jobs, no? Like 5 houses = 1 job. Or maybe housing goes 1 house = 1 job?

Pls someone enlighten me!
I thought we still had pop growth or is that going away?
 
I agree. But I think that some things are a bit problematic. To mention an example of something that makes sense to be spammable (not saying it is an issue, just that it makes sense) Research Labs, Trade Buildings and Hydroponic. None of those is logically restricted by anything else besides usable space. In particular, with the coming changes, for very high usage of food with organic shipsets (which could right now be easily fixed just spamming Hydroponics) or the research changes some buildings need to be spammy.

Now, I am still not sure on the entire zones thing. I am not liking it, but I also think that it is because it is not final and there are still plenty of stuff that is not working as intended, missing info etc. So not entirely sure on that yet. But what I can say for sure is that the previous systems was less restrictive and much simpler, so at least it had that.

It was much simpler to obtain the building spots you needed and there where less restrictions around. For some builds, playstyles or needs, that was important. A good example of that, again, is the food producing buildings. If you where for a space fauna build. you could go to enormous heights even if you had bad luck with your planets and none had decent amounts of food districts.

All in all, I think that there is a lot of things that still are hard to properly utilize because of the state of the beta. For instance, with the current tooltips we have on jobs it is hard to estimate whether or not a certain % is worth it or not (a good example being the reduction in upkeep of medical workers).

TLDR: I would still prefer if some things could be spammed everywhere, some builds need it and it helps with bad planet RNG.
While i understand it from a balance perspective, restricting a lot of buildings to 1 per planet never made sense to me. If players wanna have several alloy foundries, let them. Besides, gamers always find something to center their meta around, which usually goes somewhat against devs vision.
 
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I am wondering what generates civilian "Jobs" (where do they come from?) and wether if they should count as empolyed or unemployed.

Also
I hear they are currently uncapped. Should they be capped? And if so, by what? Should unemployed civilians exist?

Perhaps housing should be the thing that generates civilian jobs? As long as there is enough housing peoole should be able to get some of these jobs, no? Like 5 houses = 1 job. Or maybe housing goes 1 house = 1 job?

Pls someone enlighten me!
They're uncapped by design, so nothing "generates" them. All unemployed pops can eventually end up there.
 
I am wondering what generates civilian "Jobs" (where do they come from?) and wether if they should count as empolyed or unemployed.

Also
I hear they are currently uncapped. Should they be capped? And if so, by what? Should unemployed civilians exist?

They're uncapped by design, so nothing "generates" them. All unemployed pops can eventually end up there.
The original design intention is that Civilians are capped by Districts. With cities giving the most.
For the Beta they are uncapped, I have no current word if they will stay uncapped.

I call them "well managed unemployed". They aren't a problem for stability like actual unemployed, but they aren't overly productive either (like proper workers). They are overflow population.
 
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The original design intention is that Civilians are capped by Districts. With cities giving the most.
For the Beta they are uncapped, I have no current word if they will stay uncapped.

I call them "well managed unemployed". They aren't a problem for stability like actual unemployed, but they aren't overly productive either (like proper workers). They are overflow population.
So basically unemployment under socialism vs capitalism.
 
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I already wrote it on another thread, but I would like to put it here too.

Having played the beta (a little bit), I must say I vastly prefer the old system of districts and buildings only, which I think could be improved instead of discarted. I don't believe Paradox will abandon the new system, but I would like, nevertheless, to give my opinion on the changes the old system could have received.

About the districts, I believe (as others here) that creating more types would have been enough, instead of adding zones. However, it is on the buildings I would like to focus, as I like the immersion they provide to the game. Another person here suggested that buildings could have multiple upgrade paths, like research buildings had in the past, and I agree. Precinct Houses could be upgraded to the current Hall of Judgement, that further decreases crime, or to a more civil-focused court system, that reduces less crime but increases trade generation. Fortresses could be upgraded to a more navy-focused buiding, that further increases naval capacity, or to a more defensive version that makes the planet even more difficult to be invaded. The housing buildings could be upgraded to focus on more housing or more amenities (popular housing vs luxury housing). Even buidings like Psi Corps could follow this rule, like being able to be upgraded to a psionic monastery focused on unity or to a more repressive version focused on crime and stability.

Ethics could also influence this system. Holo-Theaters could, for example, be either upgraded to the more generic Hyper-Entertainment Forums or to an ethos version, like Gladitorial Arenas for militaristic empires or Elysium Parks for pacifistic ones, which could offer less amenities in exchange for increasing ethics attraction. I can think of many other examples that could make planetary management more tailored to each type of empire, which, in my opinion, would increase immersion.

I don't think, however, that all buidings should be planet unique; instead, the upgrade paths that should be unique. Using the reseach buildings as an example, I could have all specialized labs (society, physics and engineering) in a single planet, but, if I decided to build a fourth research building, I would not be able to upgrade it beyond the first level, discoraging its construction without actually prohibiting it.

Other buildings could even be added that serve to synergize with others, like an university buildings chain that increases overall planetary productivity on the first level and can be specialized to further increase engineering, physics or society output from scientists. In this case, if I wanted to specialize a planet on all science, instead of constructing a bunch of the same buildings, I could build a lab and a university for each specialization, consuming 6 buildings slots in total. Or I could focus on a single reseach path and use only 2 building slots.

Anyway, those are just some ideas I have. I admit I am a bit disappointed that the old system will simply be discarted instead of improved.
I would hate this. That planets are dominated by buildings in 3.14 is the worst part of the design, that and there is no real opportunity cost to building buildings. in 3.14 if you want to you can build every building on every planet with very few exceptions. And I've never liked that. So, what you are suggesting would remove the two most important changes--in my mind--from the new system. Forcing you to choose between different buildings on your planet is fun.
I call them "well managed unemployed".
While some are probably unemployed, civilians produce trade so they can't all be unemployed. An 'influencer' who lives off donations from their followers is employed. Even if they don't have to check that box in the tax/senses or whatever. they'd also produce unity in stellaris. Same could be said for people selling crafts on the internet.
 
I would hate this. That planets are dominated by buildings in 3.14 is the worst part of the design, that and there is no real opportunity cost to building buildings. in 3.14 if you want to you can build every building on every planet with very few exceptions. And I've never liked that. So, what you are suggesting would remove the two most important changes--in my mind--from the new system. Forcing you to choose between different buildings on your planet is fun.
The problem is that with Zones adding jobs for every City-District, and Building's making those Jobs more efficient, you end up with these formulas:

City District * Zones = Jobs

Jobs * Buildings = Output


Which means that for every Zone you create, and every Building make you have one of two objectives:

1) Make the bare minimum needed for this planet, such as Amenities, Housing, Stability, etc. from as few Buildings/Districts as possible to save costs.

2) Maximize the usage of this Zone and Building, to get the most output for the given maintenance costs.

I've been testing with different habitable world amounts, to see how the system works at various scales. When you get to a 30+ planetary empire, and you start getting a lot of Population, you end up with 1 of 2 types of worlds for efficiencies sake:

A) A rural/mining/generator/agriculture world that uses all it's Districts for raw resource production, and the bare minimum needed of Urban and Amenities Zones for the 1 City District to meet the Pops needs. Eventually you might toss a small Unity or Trade Zone on there for a few jobs, as needed.

B) An all City District planet has two identical Factory, Foundry, Tech, Unity, Trade, or Fortress Zones, and an Urban or Amenities Zone to provide the base needs of your hyper-focussed planet.

Instead of having planets where we spam the same buildings over and over to create jobs, it's just been shuffled to spamming the same Districts over and over, focussed by repeated Zones. I mean right now I have a full Tech-World that creates more Reearch Points than a Science Nexus, and an Orbital Habitat that is making more food that my 4 largest Agricultural Colonies.

City Districts * Zones making Jobs is a system rife with ways to abuse it, making it neccessary to abuse to catch up.
 
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Which means that for every Zone you create, and every Building make you have one of two objectives:

1) Make the bare minimum needed for this planet, such as Amenities, Housing, Stability, etc. from as few Buildings/Districts as possible to save costs.

2) Maximize the usage of this Zone and Building, to get the most output for the given maintenance costs.
Add contribute to global economy, while primarily paying for itself. I don't know that I ever will try to minimize zone output for any reasons. Can't imagine why I would ether. More is going to be better. and unless you have very few planets and are general you can always burn those extra resources elsewhere if its causing a problem. somehow.

The only purely local resource is amenities, and the devs have already stated they don't want to leave them tied to a zone. So other than that, its a good thing to have more of a resource.
 
I would hate this. That planets are dominated by buildings in 3.14 is the worst part of the design, that and there is no real opportunity cost to building buildings. in 3.14 if you want to you can build every building on every planet with very few exceptions. And I've never liked that. So, what you are suggesting would remove the two most important changes--in my mind--from the new system. Forcing you to choose between different buildings on your planet is fun.

While some are probably unemployed, civilians produce trade so they can't all be unemployed. An 'influencer' who lives off donations from their followers is employed. Even if they don't have to check that box in the tax/senses or whatever. they'd also produce unity in stellaris. Same could be said for people selling crafts on the internet.
To me, buildings will always be more interesting than zones and districts simply because they are more immersive and easier to visualize. What I propose would definitely increase the opportunity cost of buildings, as each upgrade path would be its own thing, multiplying the amount of options I could choose from when selecting what to construct on each slot. If the devs were to add synergy buildings (to help specialize different planets), the amount of options would be even greater, and opportunity costs would only remain the same if the number of slots were increased to compensate (which is not what I am proposing).

Having to choose what to build is fun. Too many restrictions are not, however; especially because we are not talking about CK3 counties here, but entire planets.
 
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To me, buildings will always be more interesting than zones and districts simply because they are more immersive and easier to visualize. What I propose would definitely increase the opportunity cost of buildings, as each upgrade path would be its own thing, multiplying the amount of options I could choose from when selecting what to construct on each slot. If the devs were to add synergy buildings (to help specialize different planets), the amount of options would be even greater, and opportunity costs would only remain the same if the number of slots were increased to compensate (which is not what I am proposing).

Having to choose what to build is fun. Too many restrictions are not, however; especially because we are not talking about CK3 counties here, but entire planets.
are you suggesting that if I chose specialization A for research labs I'd be locked out of specialization B on that planet?

And if we are still restricting buildings, how? I understood your suggestion to mean 'start with 3.14' so there would be all the building slots currently in 3.14. So there is nothing stopping you form building just everything in every slot.

And yeah, planets are clearly smaller than 'real planets.' But the feel bigger--to me--when the main thing you interact with to expand your planets is something other than buildings. Districts and zones natural feel more like regions or large collections of things rather than just buildings.
 
City District * Zones = Jobs

Jobs * Buildings = Output
It is super-weird, non-intuitive, and a little immersion-breaking that there's multiplicative impact from linear building, district, and zone construction costs. I guess it already sort of existed in 3.x with base output booster buildings, but those were easier to rationalize as efficiency improvements than creating jobs is, and not as ubiquitous as the zones*districts combinations.

(Whereas under the old system, if I wanted two more researcher jobs, it was always going to cost me about the same, the price of a research lab or upgrade plus maybe a city district, wherever I built it. Now for the cost of a research zone I might get few jobs or many, for the same price and build time, depending on what else is on the planet where I build it)
 
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are you suggesting that if I chose specialization A for research labs I'd be locked out of specialization B on that planet?

And if we are still restricting buildings, how? I understood your suggestion to mean 'start with 3.14' so there would be all the building slots currently in 3.14. So there is nothing stopping you form building just everything in every slot.

And yeah, planets are clearly smaller than 'real planets.' But the feel bigger--to me--when the main thing you interact with to expand your planets is something other than buildings. Districts and zones natural feel more like regions or large collections of things rather than just buildings.
What do you mean build everything on every slot? I am restricted to 12 slots per planet, but if I have 30 building types (including the various upgrade paths), than I have to choose not to build 18 buildings. That is the choice. I can't have everything on every planet.
 
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This is utter nonsense. The issue is not Relearning the UI. Is the UI being worse, period.

In the current UI you can see the same amount of information (sometimes more, depending on which window we are talking about) without having to navigate to other tabs, nor having to scroll a lot etc.

What is funny is that you say that it is a matter of learning the UI, when it literally has nothing to do with it. You like scrolling? Nice, most people here want to play Stellaris instead, if we wanted to scroll we would watch our facebook feeds or similar.

The current window for Modification Template shows the exact same info, but in a much more amicable and navigable window, which by the way are two prime design aspects to take into account when doing UI design.

And the planetary one literally forces you to click on one button every single time you Tab over your planets just to know what is going on there. How is that relearning? i already learnt I need to click the button, as I am clearly mentioning it. So no, that is not the issue.

In fact, I am utterly convinced you have not even tried the beta because what you say I so extremely wrong and out of reality that that is the only explanation. Instead of asking others to relearn the UI go check for yourself how awful it is compared to what we have now, then you might actually know what you are talking about.

EDIT: Not to mention, that it is not doom saying, it is giving feedback so that things that are wrong dont go live as they are. But sure, go and wait 2 weeks without actually trying the beta, and then complain after release about the things that should have been mentioned in the beta so that they get fixed. That kind of attitude is what makes possible for several issues to reach production. If more people took the time to actually test the betas and provide actual feedback (instead of accusing others of not wanting to learn the new UI, when it is obvious that the one that didn't even check the stuff is you) then we would (probably) have better releases.

I have played the beta. I didn't think I needed to complain about issues I thought the devs knew about given the known issues. I didn't think the UI changes were final, and the few ones I have that I think were intentional and needed changes people have *already said*. Why repeat it? I didn't accuse you of not playing the beta becasue we disagreed, so I'm just amused this was your reaction.

This basically is "I don't like the new UX flow." Which is an entirely valid complaint.

But scrolling is such a part of modern UX design that you can't really complain about it now being a thing. It's funny.
 
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