I am strongly against killing vassals this way! There are ways to get rid of vassals ingame. If you want to get rid of a vassal, get rid of them the hard way.Solmyr said:
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Jarkko Suvinen said:Should Venice be released as an independent republic? She alone is a *very* good source of manpower and income. Perhaps because Hungary is going elective Venice should elect to become free again?
Only if I'm free to elect to reconquer it immediately again. I don't see why though, as it is Hungary is not that strong even with Venice. The good manpower and income applies to a load of other provinces, maybe they should be set free too?
I wouldn't even allow swapping counties between players, you can always dow each other and swap the land in a mock war. If you want to show your vassals they don't know whome you are going to sell next, take the BB hit for doing it.
Alternatively editing the counties should IMo also include the Bad Boy hit to both kings.
Generally editing mid-game is in my opinion not good, unless it is to do something that can't be done in game. Swapping counties can be done ingame, killing off vassals can be done ingame. If you don't want to take the prestige or BB hits for it, then don't do it.
Alternatively editing the counties should IMo also include the Bad Boy hit to both kings.
Generally editing mid-game is in my opinion not good, unless it is to do something that can't be done in game. Swapping counties can be done ingame, killing off vassals can be done ingame. If you don't want to take the prestige or BB hits for it, then don't do it.
@ Jarkko: Firstly, killing the bishop was to make replacing him easier. We can always go the hard way and move the bishopric into Hungary. Secondly, I can agree to no county swapping edits, but we should all agree to such then. I do remember some county swapping between Germany and England earlier as well as other cases. So if we stop county swapping now, I at least want that everyone follows that rule.
But I guess we can fight a mock war for it, at some point in far future... I guess my king is too busy with his Towers to do anything smart during his lifetime...
But I guess we can fight a mock war for it, at some point in far future... I guess my king is too busy with his Towers to do anything smart during his lifetime...
Well, I don't know how the actual swapping was done, as England got the 600d from Germany and Germany in return got free hands on Rostock. The actual transfer from England to Germany has happened during last session, and as Sussex (also count of Rostock) is also German now I assume they took it the hard way.Byakhiam said:
Jarkko Suvinen said:
Well, iirc the count you assigned into Rostock "switched his allegiance"-editwise to Germany, which caused Sussex to drop to Germany too as the guy you assigned there was in line of succession at county of Sussex. You get germans by chance anyway after province has converted to realm-culture (german).
Hyzhenhok said:
Even with the fall of France, Germany still has Hungary as a realm of relatively equal power. Germany has more manpower (about 10k more), but Hungary has a MUCH better economy and is more technologically advanced. Of course, much like France and Germany, the Kaiser IS allied to the Hungarian King. How that friendship weathers the King of Hungary changing his inheritance laws and disinheriting Istvan's (and Wilhelm's) grandson remains to be determined, however...
Solmyr said:
Hungary should not be stripped of Venice (I was only joking about that), but Hungary is pretty strong.
Unlike most PC nations (except for Germany) Hungary has remained relatively passive for most of the game and thus has been able to build up tremendous wealth and manpower. Hungary also enjoys a fairly stable and competent leadership (unlike Poland), has not faced constant rebellion from her vassals (like Burgundy, England, and France), has fairly secure borders, and has good relations with her neighbors (for now, at least.)
I would say that Germany and Hungary are currently the two strongest realms left in the game, with all the other PC realms being relatively equal to each other. I would also argue that a large part of Hungary and Germany's strength is due to their very slow expansion. Most of the other PC realms have, for one reason or another, been forced to (in Poland's case, what with gaining the Crusader trait) or decided to expand their territory greatly and fight several wars. While that might position them well in the future, currently it leaves them vulnerable and/or unstable. I know that for my part, I have refused to engage in any expanison except for when my BB was at 0, and then I would only grab or take one title at a time.
Jarkko Suvinen said:
I have no problem with edited exchanges, as the game currently has no mechanism for peaceful transfers except for to do it via editing. I think that we should be able to transfer the loyalty of direct vassals (and only direct vassals- I won't switch the loyalty of one of your vassals' vassals), and currently doing edits is the only way that said diplomacy can take place.
I do think, however, that perhaps adding in a BB hit might be a good idea. We could add in a -.2 to the BB score for each vassal/title you exchange (either coming or going) to reflect the ill will one's vassals would feel in being treated like commodities. If we did that, though, I would ask whether we should retroactively inflate Germany and England's BB scores slightly owing to their transfer of provinces a while ago, or if that should just be water under the bridge.
I'm going to do the changes then, but I'm not going to change the existing rulers since I didn't do that when England/Germany made their swap. If the leader currently in charge of the counties being traded are unacceptable for whatever reason, you'll need to make the changes in-game like I did, either by revoking the titles or by eliminating whatever is making the current count undesirable.
One problem with Solmyr handing over Aukshayts and Sudovia- he doesn't directly control those vassals. Both are counts loyal to the Duke of Slovenia.
When Sterkarm was negotiating with Wulfgang and agreed to give a province to Germany in exchange for a wife, we agreed then that only direct vassals could be exchanged. I don't know if you want to pick different provinces to exchange or not, or if we want to agree to ignore this rule, but I thought I would bring it up here for us to discuss before I set about doing the mod.
When Sterkarm was negotiating with Wulfgang and agreed to give a province to Germany in exchange for a wife, we agreed then that only direct vassals could be exchanged. I don't know if you want to pick different provinces to exchange or not, or if we want to agree to ignore this rule, but I thought I would bring it up here for us to discuss before I set about doing the mod.
Well, I guess the loony Piast wouldn't understand what "exchange" means (it doesn't have any towers in it ) so maybe we postpone the province swap until later time. We should have RP-wise sound reasoning for the swap.
) so maybe we postpone the province swap until later time. We should have RP-wise sound reasoning for the swap.
We can postpone the swap then, I'll just have to revoke the duke's title so I control those vassals directly before we swap.
In the future I also wouldn't mind a rule that people can only swap provinces which are part of their personal demesne.
As for an AAR, give me a bit. I've been managing the bugfix.
In the future I also wouldn't mind a rule that people can only swap provinces which are part of their personal demesne.
As for an AAR, give me a bit. I've been managing the bugfix.
I need to know what Hyzhen has decided to do for the upcoming game- whether he'll be playing one of the realms ruled by a Capet in an effort to rebuild all he lost or whether he'll be picking up another domain and will wish to mod in a character.