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mikl said:
Like this?

...
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The events look fine, but calling the people of Bern 'Swiss' is an anachronism. You could just call the people of Bern + Schwyz provinces 'the Alpine peoples'; or maybe 'Helvetians', using the Latin name for the area (though the Helvetii themselves were a Celtic tribe who'd long since vanished by 1419); maybe 'Alemanni', but that includes Swabians as well. The people of what became Switzerland were already very close culturally to the Swabians (much more so than Swabians were to central or northern Germans), so I wouldn't express it in cultural terms, more in terms of accepting Habsburg institutions.
 
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Incompetent said:
The events look fine, but calling the people of Bern 'Swiss' is an anachronism. You could just call the people of Bern + Schwyz provinces 'the Alpine peoples'; or maybe 'Helvetians', using the Latin name for the area (though the Helvetii themselves were a Celtic tribe who'd long since vanished by 1419); maybe 'Alemanni', but that includes Swabians as well. The people of what became Switzerland were already very close culturally to the Swabians (much more so than Swabians were to central or northern Germans), so I wouldn't express it in cultural terms, more in terms of accepting Habsburg institutions.
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Sure.
 
Incompetent said:
The events look fine, but calling the people of Bern 'Swiss' is an anachronism. You could just call the people of Bern + Schwyz provinces 'the Alpine peoples'; or maybe 'Helvetians', using the Latin name for the area (though the Helvetii themselves were a Celtic tribe who'd long since vanished by 1419); maybe 'Alemanni', but that includes Swabians as well. The people of what became Switzerland were already very close culturally to the Swabians (much more so than Swabians were to central or northern Germans), so I wouldn't express it in cultural terms, more in terms of accepting Habsburg institutions.
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Actually there is a question that goes to the very heart of this country.

Kaigon originally wrote the unfinished file based upon a rump of the Habsburgs sitting in Swabia, based on Habsburg controlled provinces at the time and Habsburg monarchs. It's a nice idea, with a story of changing the country to Milan.

I have taken the idea, and made the Habsburg lineage a little more realistic, and the motives for moving to Milan more plausible. But along the way his "Swabia" has become more Habsburg than swabisch.

Actually, the entire nation should be termed Vörderösterreich (Further, or Outer Austria.), and Styria should be termed Innenösterreich (Inner Austria).

IF we let the Habsburg theme drive us a bit further in this country file, then perhaps we should be renaming the nation "Vörderösterreich" rather then "Swabia".

This would be my preference, but it might dilute the Swabisch theme a little. Which - culturally - we are ignoring for game purposes anyway.

Alternatively, when Sigismind's son Phillip I sends the country down to Milan forever, a distant nephew could assemble the diehard nobles, enlist help from the remaining Habsburgs in Innenösterreich, and create Swabia. So we start wiith a hard-to-pronounce Vörderösterreich, then in 1485 it (under action_a) splits to become (Habsburg) Swabia and (Visconti) Lombardia.
 
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MattyG said:
Hilarious.

Interestingly, this very morning my wife suggested that we ought to hae an Aberrated set of music files. This would have to be in it. :rofl:
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I actually thought of that, maybe Andalusian or Arabic/eastern Music for the game? :D
 
tarakan said:
I think you mean that in a jest
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And thus the " :D " my Rus friend. :)
 
He shouldn't.

If we are to continue this mod and make it all it could be, the music files ought to contain non_euroepan music as well.

Drumming from the Haudenosaunee, a Maori Haka, Middle-eastern music, some Indian sitar. Maybe event some Chinese Opera (OK, not that, it's horrible.. :) )

Matty
 
Hmmmm, then I can provide some Sufi/Andalusi strings and eastern melodies if you want.
 
It would have to be art of a 'Deluxe' version of ABII. The music files are huge, and to include them as part of the standard game version would be inconsiderate.

It's something for down the road, if we get that far.
 
MattyG said:
He shouldn't.

If we are to continue this mod and make it all it could be, the music files ought to contain non_euroepan music as well.

Drumming from the Haudenosaunee, a Maori Haka, Middle-eastern music, some Indian sitar. Maybe event some Chinese Opera (OK, not that, it's horrible.. :) )

Matty
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I'd be pretty keen to see some more unintelligible scandinavian heavy metal... :rofl:
 
mikl said:
Actually there is a question that goes to the very heart of this country.

Kaigon originally wrote the unfinished file based upon a rump of the Habsburgs sitting in Swabia, based on Habsburg controlled provinces at the time and Habsburg monarchs. It's a nice idea, with a story of changing the country to Milan.

I have taken the idea, and made the Habsburg lineage a little more realistic, and the motives for moving to Milan more plausible. But along the way his "Swabia" has become more Habsburg than swabisch.

Actually, the entire nation should be termed Vörderösterreich (Further, or Outer Austria.), and Styria should be termed Innenösterreich (Inner Austria).

IF we let the Habsburg theme drive us a bit further in this country file, then perhaps we should be renaming the nation "Vörderösterreich" rather then "Swabia".

This would be my preference, but it might dilute the Swabisch theme a little. Which - culturally - we are ignoring for game purposes anyway.

Alternatively, when Sigismind's son Phillip I sends the country down to Milan forever, a distant nephew could assemble the diehard nobles, enlist help from the remaining Habsburgs in Innenösterreich, and create Swabia. So we start wiith a hard-to-pronounce Vörderösterreich, then in 1485 it (under action_a) splits to become (Habsburg) Swabia and (Visconti) Lombardia.
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I will make this change for 6.03

But I'll need new flags for all of them. Well, Swabia's can be Swabia, but the Vonejhfkuxhv will need and new flag, what about Lombaridia?

Matty
 
MattyG said:
I will make this change for 6.03

But I'll need new flags for all of them. Well, Swabia's can be Swabia, but the Vonejhfkuxhv will need and new flag, what about Lombaridia?

Matty
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Whoa, I suggest it only for discussion. Thought others might like to comment first.

What size graphic do you need for the flags etc...?
 
It doesn't really matter, but the larger the original the better the final version, as I reduce the graphic. If the starting graphic is smaller than the final, it looks a little pixle-y.

If you locate an internet source, just send the link, otherwise you will need to email it as you cannot cut and paste graphics into the forum.

Matty
 
mikl said:
Whoa, I suggest it only for discussion. Thought others might like to comment first.

What size graphic do you need for the flags etc...?
Click to expand...


As for the names, given that the gane uses the anglicized versions of country names and that Oestereich is Austria, for example.

So, following tradition, the nation should start as West Austria. Sounds a lot like Western Australia, another very boring name.
 
We could call it West Austria, but it makes it sound like yet another vanilla major, and it'll confuse people about the nature of 'East Austria'. Also, if the Habsburgs never got further east than the Tirol, it'd make little sense to use a name which originally applied to a small area around Vienna and later came to be applied to places ruled from there.

I don't think calling it Swabia necessarily ties it down in one place or people. Compare, for example, the area and inhabitants of the various incarnations of 'Greece' or 'Rome', or even 'Saxony'.

If the Habsburgs acquire just Milan, their country can be called whatever it was before. If however they acquire substantial Italian possessions they might try to claim the Kingdom of Italy and break away from the HRE. In that case the country would change name to 'Italy'. (As usual, this doesn't necessarily preclude continued rule of Swabian provinces or retention of the culture - the KoI is a legal state, not an ethnic one.)
 
Incompetent said:
We could call it West Austria, but it makes it sound like yet another vanilla major, and it'll confuse people about the nature of 'East Austria'. Also, if the Habsburgs never got further east than the Tirol, it'd make little sense to use a name which originally applied to a small area around Vienna and later came to be applied to places ruled from there.

I don't think calling it Swabia necessarily ties it down in one place or people. Compare, for example, the area and inhabitants of the various incarnations of 'Greece' or 'Rome', or even 'Saxony'.

If the Habsburgs acquire just Milan, their country can be called whatever it was before. If however they acquire substantial Italian possessions they might try to claim the Kingdom of Italy and break away from the HRE. In that case the country would change name to 'Italy'. (As usual, this doesn't necessarily preclude continued rule of Swabian provinces or retention of the culture - the KoI is a legal state, not an ethnic one.)
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Well, the Kingdom of Italy is one of those projects we want to do in Interregnum, but have not yet gotten round to. It would be modelled on the France formation concept and that for the Kingdom of Italy in AGCEEP.

Stcking with Swabia is fine by me, but how about ... Habsburg?

matty
 
Incompetent said:
We could call it West Austria, but it makes it sound like yet another vanilla major, and it'll confuse people about the nature of 'East Austria'. Also, if the Habsburgs never got further east than the Tirol, it'd make little sense to use a name which originally applied to a small area around Vienna and later came to be applied to places ruled from there.

I don't think calling it Swabia necessarily ties it down in one place or people. Compare, for example, the area and inhabitants of the various incarnations of 'Greece' or 'Rome', or even 'Saxony'.

If the Habsburgs acquire just Milan, their country can be called whatever it was before. If however they acquire substantial Italian possessions they might try to claim the Kingdom of Italy and break away from the HRE. In that case the country would change name to 'Italy'. (As usual, this doesn't necessarily preclude continued rule of Swabian provinces or retention of the culture - the KoI is a legal state, not an ethnic one.)
Click to expand...

Rather than West Austria, a better translation is Outer Austria. Styria then takes Inner Austria as it's name. I don't have a problem with the name sounding boring. I mean it's not as good as "The Golden Horde", but streets better than "Norway".

And Swabia is a terrific name, and I would support it - if the main emphasis of the file was it's cultural connection. The original Kaigon file was, and my rewrite still is - rather Habsburg based. And since he and I have been using the vanilla Habsburg lineage, it seems the vanilla Habsburg naming is more appropriate.

Then there is - most probably - a split, and two nations are formed. One is centred around Swabisch nobles, and it make sense to call it Swabia. The other is centred around Milan, echoing the Lombard state from a century back, and the name of the province. But I am also happy to call it Italy, provided it controls more than half of the peninsular.

Also happy to call them "Grasshoppers Zurich", "VfB Stuttgart" and "AC Milan", respectively.
 
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