Talking Turkey: Alternate History from 1936

[Bullfilter]

League of Nations
Geneva Peace Conference - 30 November 1944

Round Eight Results

​

After a delay due to the sudden absence of one of the delegations, the available votes have been submitted and tallied and the advice of the Romanian Government sought regarding its votes [ie default voting]. It should also be noted that due to the breach of a formal pledge after the previous round, the USSR had one vote transferred to the UK/Allies for Round Eight. The Secretariat can declare that the voting was as follows:

*Amended 19/08/2022 to subtract one vote from the UK for the India veto, as discussed subsequently

Proposition 23 – Germany

23.1 (Germany remains as a Turkish Puppet): 0 votes.
23.2 (Germany becomes a USSR puppet): 40 votes PASSED (USSR 16, Turkey 9, Japan 13, Germany 4, Spain 2)
23.3 (Germany becomes an independent Comintern nation): 39 votes (UK/Allies 15, USA 14, France 3, Romania [default] 2, Poland 1).

Pending confirmation of Turkish understandings or intentions regarding the veto it originally had over this outcome (which they ended up voting for) this proposition is now passed..

Proposition 24 – France

24.1 (France is reunited - Southern France back to France): 59 votes PASSED (USSR 16, UK/Allies 15, USA 14, Turkey 9, France 3, Spain 2).
24.2 (Southern France annexed by Turkey [as part of UGNR]): 4 votes (Germany 4)
24.3 (France is partitioned - Southern France declared Peoples Republic of France as an independent Comintern country): 16 votes (Japan 13, Romania [default] 2, Poland 1).

Pledge Breach Actions and Deadline

As a standard reminder, if any country believes a bound pledge has been broken (or the Secretariat has incorrectly counted a ballot), they have until 1000hr GMT on Tue 16 Aug 2022 (real time), to privately notify the Secretary General if they wish to bring a breach action. In the special rules for this round, that would result in a vote change rather than a breach penalty.

This being the final voting round, subject to further litigation over Proposition 23, the Conference will be wrapped up subsequently and the Security Council of the League of Nations determination made [and bargaining point scores, absolute and 'handicapped', will be analysed and announced].

Yours in Peace,

Seán Lester
Secretary General
League of Nations
Geneva
30 November 1944

 

[Midnite Duke]

Pop, pop; that is the wonderful sound of vintage champagne being opened. We wish to thank the esteemed Secretary-General and we hope that he can have a bottle or two before venturing to the cricket pitch. I wish to thank the UK, US, Soviet Union, Turkey and Spain for their brave votes. In a show of unity, we would like to offer a glass to Poland, Germany, Japan and Romania. Thank you from united France.

 

[Wraith11B]

Message sent.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

23.2 (Germany becomes a USSR puppet): 40 votes TIED (USSR 16, Turkey 9, Japan 13, Germany 4, Spain 2)

Germany has been counted twice. Presumably they voted for the other option which would in fact lead to a tie rather than 44 win for this one?

 

[Midnite Duke]

Germany has been counted twice. Presumably they voted for the other option which would in fact lead to a tie rather than 44 win for this one?

Listed twice, but vote is only counted in 23.3.

 

[Bullfilter]

Listed twice, but vote is only counted in 23.3.

Ah, that will be a cut and paste error on the text. Only one ballot recorded on the spreadsheet. I'll check and edit shortly.

Edit: can confirm Germany voted for 23.3 and 24.2. Text in Round Eight report edited accordingly. It's a tie, subject to legal challenges re pledges.

 

[nuclearslurpee]

A top of page update, of course...

Poland breaking with the Comintern bloc at the last minute has thrown things for a loop! Not that it makes very much difference to Japan, of course...

Hoping (but no pressure!) that the vetoes and final scores are wrapped up by this evening, Self-Centered American Time of course (SCA...wait, no...). If so I can finally post that big, long retrospective I've been sitting on these last couple of weeks, and of course hear what everyone else has thought as the game has gone along!

 

[diskoerekto]

We're still loyal allies with the Poles, no problem with regards to voting differently. There might've been something or other that we could've pushed for, but things worked this way

 

[RustyHunter]

Poland breaking with the Comintern bloc at the last minute has thrown things for a loop!

And the Soviets breaking their pledge to the United Kingdom certainly didn't help. A little excitement and tension at the end can't hurt anything either!

We're still loyal allies with the Poles, no problem with regards to voting differently.

We thank you for the support and reiterate our friendship and support for Turkey.

 

[SSmith]

I really must apologise to the German delegation for what I am about to say...

I believe there was a numerical error in the evaluation of the British vote. I think I am correct in calculating that the UK gained one vote due to the Soviet breach but also lost one vote on account of exercising the veto prerogative over P21. The UK vote therefore remains at 15, and there is no tie. Germany becomes a Soviet puppet.

 

[DensleyBlair]

I really must apologise to the German delegation for what I am about to say...

I believe there was a numerical error in the evaluation of the British vote. I think I am correct in calculating that the UK gained one vote due to the Soviet breach but also lost one vote on account of exercising the veto prerogative over P21. The UK vote therefore remains at 15, and there is no tie. Germany becomes a Soviet puppet.

I’m glad you’ve said this; I was sure there was some recalculation of vote-share that needed doing, but I couldn’t articulate what it was and didn’t have the confidence to make an unfounded claim.

Good on you raising it, anyway. Glad to see good sportsmanship survives alongside the other sacred British pastime of committing unspeakable crimes in the colonies.

 

[Bullfilter]

I really must apologise to the German delegation for what I am about to say...

I believe there was a numerical error in the evaluation of the British vote. I think I am correct in calculating that the UK gained one vote due to the Soviet breach but also lost one vote on account of exercising the veto prerogative over P21. The UK vote therefore remains at 15, and there is no tie. Germany becomes a Soviet puppet.

Ah, right! I’m glad I kept this open for vetting (given the closeness of the vote on Germany and it’s importance). I was tripped up because we hadn’t actually applied the die roll outcome yet, which is going to be done immediately after the end of the conference. But of course you are right, the application of the veto penalty should have been done straight away. That makes it 40-39 then, without the coin toss required. Which if it had gone against Soviet puppeting may have led to a veto and partitioning.

Are there any other points to be made re the vote’s accuracy or pledge challenges before it is finalised?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Ah, right! I’m glad I kept this open for vetting (given the closeness of the vote on Germany and it’s importance). I was tripped up because we hadn’t actually applied the die roll outcome yet, which is going to be done immediately after the end of the conference. But of course you are right, the application of the veto penalty should have been done straight away. That makes it 40-39 then, without the coin toss required. Which if it had gone against Soviet puppeting may have led to a veto and partitioning.

Are there any other points to be made re the vote’s accuracy or pledge challenges before it is finalised?

I was waiting for someone else to say it, to be honest.

 

[nuclearslurpee]

Are there any other points to be made re the vote’s accuracy or pledge challenges before it is finalised?

Japan actually has 69 votes so you've undercounted a bit.

 

[Wraith11B]

has 69 votes

Nice.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

I was waiting for someone else to say it, to be honest.

This may sound a bit strange to people so let me just say, I am ridiculously pleased by how this all turned out and no one is ever going to believe how this conference went down behind the scenes.

 

[SSmith]

Yes, congratulations to the Soviet Union and Turkey especially for sticking together through all this and achieving a near perfect outcome.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Yes, congratulations to the Soviet Union and Turkey especially for sticking together through all this and achieving a near perfect outcome.

If it makes you feel any better, I did agonise over which empire to screw over more: Japan or the UK. And if Bullfilter had let me, it would have been a lot worse in the Pacific for everyone.

 

[SSmith]

If it makes you feel any better, I did agonise over which empire to screw over more: Japan or the UK. And if Bullfilter had let me, it would have been a lot worse in the Pacific for everyone.

Yes, I was trying to weigh how that might decision might look from a Soviet perspective. There could be a lot of interesting details coming out in the debrief, I feel.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Yes, I was trying to weigh how that might decision might look from a Soviet perspective. There could be a lot of interesting details coming out in the debrief, I feel.

Oh yes. You dodged a massive bullet cos my first way of destroying the british empire was much nastier than the Indian trickery.

I think the New Comintern is going to do very well going forwards, and the British...depending on how they handle India, might be alright if the Commonwealth decides to stick close together. And they definitely should, because Japan and the US are probably going to war soon so they don't really have many other options for protection.

France is in a good place. Germany is about to be demilitarised as promised, and we need to organise some war crimes trials...

However, as stated before, New Comintern is committed to puppets having their own governmnets of their own people. Just not allowed to do whatever they want.