We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly. You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
There might have been a touch of irony in the 'soft underbelly' line, given how 'tough' the real one ended up . But if the Germans unwisely just pass me by altogether, I might have richer pickings - before they wipe me out anyway .
Yes, I'm most worried about the Air Force, as there's nothing much I can do about the Navy side of things except rely on the UK to rule the Med. and garrison the 'core' homeland ports I really need to keep. No matter how many fighters I build, Germany will always have more and better, even if they only send a fraction my way. I'm currently contemplating a few AA Divisions but don't really know if they would be effective enough to be worth it.
Negative. Playing as Germany, I built (GARx2 + AAx2) and I don't think it mattered bit against Brit-bombers, and that was as Germany. Provincial AA IS for any country but you need to improve the guns and unfortunately you are not overflowing with IC. iirc As Turkey, you have to research AA first to even make level-1 guns?
As far as the Luftwaffe, as long as Germany & the Soviets are in the thick of things, hopefully you'll not see many bombers come your way. I don't think Hungary has any but if they do, it will not be many and with your combined air-force you should generally be in good shape. Of course, in this game, sometimes things don't go quite as planned.
Thanks for the advice. Once the mayhem of war is over will need to decide my longer term research plans, including air defence. If my MP gets too low for many more large land units, it might be worth throwing some IC into fighters, maybe on licence. I don't think I'll ever be able to develop the tech for a decent home grown aircraft industry.
Preamble. Braanszon ‘BJ’ Guildenstern, advertising man-turned-propagandist for the Greater Turkish Republic, is back from his rest cure at a seaside rehab clinic in Izmir. He found it impossible to quit all his vices “cold turkey” (so to speak), but has decided to moderate his alcohol and substance intake. By his standards, anyway.
On the evening of 24 November, he is having dinner with the chief of the Turkish Propaganda Department. Over cigars and brandy, the matter of a title for the next issue of Turkey’s official war chronicle, ‘The Path to Glory’ is being discussed.
“My time away has opened my eyes wide,” BJ enthuses, largely sober for the first time in many weeks. “We’re old news with all these hammer-related one-liners. The longer it goes, the worse the puns and the more it reminds the people that this war drags on and the casualties climb.”
“Nah baby, simple is the new black,” he says simply. “We cut to the chase – what’s the big story; and how do we twist it to our advantage?” He ponders for a while, missing Persephonee’s usual astute word-smithing at this men-only club in downtown Ankara.
“Well,” starts the Propaganda Chief, “there were four big battles decided in the last few days, and we won two of them. The Romanians won another on our behalf. We only lost one.”
Braanszon winces when he hears the word ‘lost’, then looks at the hapless official with a blank stare. His eyes are as expressionless and dead as a shark’s.
“So, is your suggestion ‘Two and an Assist out of Four Ain’t Bad’,” he asks sardonically and rhetorically. Fortunately, his relative sobriety actually allows him to think creatively for once, which he does for a few seconds.
“I have it!" he exclaims, snapping his fingers. “We cut off a large part of the Yugoslavian Army in that ‘pocket’ in Serbia, didn’t we? That will be our angle.”
He waits for a moment, before he scrawls a single word on a handy (and only slightly stained) drinks coaster: “Pocketed!” He smiles, knocks back another brandy, finishes his cigar in one long and luxuriant puff, sitting back a picture of smug self-satisfaction. “Job done! And with only a single fashionably simple piece of alliteration at the end.”
24 Nov 37 (D+26)
Muzir’s 1 Mtn Div continued its progress, arriving in Valjevo from Beograd at midday. The battle for Visegrad appears to be well in hand, so Inönü orders them north to Sabac, to expand the breakthrough. At 1700 1 Mtn Div encounters only enemy HQs, which retreat before any combat can occur. A check on the situation in Visegrad at that time reveals both the frontline divisions are approaching breaking point, with 1 Inf Div still attempting go get over the limited crossing of the River Drina to aid their exhausted 3 Inf Div comrades.
A few Yugoslavian light tanks (Renault FT-17s), attached to their 22nd Inf Div (not in brigade strength), knocked out on the outskirts of Visegrad. The presence of these 1918 vintage tanks on the battlefield would be laughable, if it weren’t for the fact Turkey doesn’t have any tanks as yet!
25 Nov 37 (D+27)
HQ 2nd Corps reaches Medveda at 0300, where they will try to block any Yugoslavian forces attempting to escape the Serbian Pocket as the Romanians continue to press from the east. They arrived just in time, as they were attacked at 0600 by the Yugoslavian 7th Inf Div, attempting to escape north-west from Surdulica. Although the enemy appears to be at full strength, Artunkal’s reinforced HQ looks like it shouldn’t have any trouble holding them off.
In the Adriatic sector, although the second enemy infantry division hasn’t yet reinforced in Nevesinje, by 0800 3 Cav Div’s situation is deteriorating. Its acting commander is out of radio contact with HQ 2nd Corps, so will have to decide himself when the time comes to withdraw.
The young King Peter II does his best to bolster the morale of his soldiers. With the neutrality policy of his uncle, the Regent Prince Paul, in tatters, he decides to lead himself. Here, he sees off troops about to go into battle in Nevesinje on 25 November. He hopes this counter-offensive will stop the Turkish onslaught and allow Yugoslavia to strike back.
26 Nov 37 (D+28)
At 0100 on 26 November, word comes from Cakmak that he has managed to cross the Drina in strength and has reinforced 3 Inf Div’s attack on Visegrad. This comes not a moment too soon, as both the frontline divisions are almost completely disorganised. It would have been a coin’s toss to see which would have folded first, but with 1 Inf Div now in place the issue will soon be settled.
At the same time, 1 Mtn Div promptly secures Sabac, fighting off a few stragglers from the enemy’s 20th Inf Div and taking the rest prisoner.
26 Nov 37. These Yugoslavian soldiers were surprised and cut off by the fast-moving 1 Mtn Div in Sabac and had no choice but to surrender after a perfunctory fight.
Two hours later at 0300 they are ordered to push on to Semska Mitrovka. With Romanian forces approaching from the east here as well, there is a chance of cutting off the Yugoslavian units concentrated in the hills of Ruma, overlooking Beograd. They can either be bagged or forced to break their entrenchments, making them far easier meat for attacks as they retreat.
And at this time, the long and bloody Battle of Visegrad finally comes to an end. 1 Inf Div pushes through the exhausted 3 Inf Div to occupy the town, but there is no doubt the glory and battle honours belong to Karabekir’s 3rd Infantry – paid for dearly in blood. This has cracked open the enemy’s defences in the centre. It now remains for us to take advantage.
In Medveda, HQ 2nd Corps defeats the attack by the Yugoslavian 7th Infantry Division by 0500, taking 23 casualties to the enemy’s 64. This is the first practical vindication of the reinforced HQ initiative, seeing a full strength infantry division easily beaten back.
Later that day, word filters through by courier relay that the 3 Cav Div position had become untenable and they had chosen to withdraw in good order from Nevesinje at 0500 that morning, rather than becoming completely disordered and then routed. 15 Inf Div was en route to try to hold the province, but it was unclear whether they would arrive in time to do that. 3 Cav Div had fought a brave delaying effort, but it was inevitable their run of luck would eventually come to an end. Despite it ending in a loss, they will be awarded with a ‘Battle of the Adriatic Coast’ unit honour for their remarkable efforts.
In what was proving to be an eventful day, Namut’s 5 Inf Div secured Užice by 1000 and immediately pressed the retreating Yugoslavians by attacking Pljevlja. Battle was joined at 1600, and by 2000 a quick victory had been won.
27 Nov 37 (D+29)
At 1800, the enemy 7th Division, having been repulsed by HQ 2nd Corps in Medveda the day before, is spotted attempting to flee south-west towards Kumanovo. Orbay’s 17 Inf Div have just received enough supplies for a short attack. If they run out before the enemy is defeated, HQ 2nd Corps may have to attack from the north-west. We don’t want the enemy breaking through the gap in our lines and wreaking havoc behind them: that is our job! With the pocket closed and shrinking, we want no escapes.
At 2100, the reorganising 1 Cav Div reports it has run out of supplies and fuel in Sjenica, where supply is very poor. They are ordered north-west up to the recently occupied Užica, where supply is much better. In the north, 1 Mtn Div has now made it to Semska Mitrovica, where they immediately encounter more Yugoslavian stragglers retreating north. The enemy are quickly hurried on their way, with no casualties suffered on either side.
28 Nov 37 (D+30)
At 1800, 5 Inf Div arrives in Pljevlja and must reorganise following its recent attack. This is the last meaningful action or movement of the day, as all other units are either consolidating or still moving. That night, Artunkal and Inönü prepare their summaries of the situation on the Hammer and Anvil fronts for the War Cabinet, which is meeting the next day to consider progress one month into the war against Yugoslavia.
29 Nov 37 (D+31) – War Cabinet Meeting, Ankara
The first item on the agenda is the news from the front. Both Corps Commanders have prepared summary maps. They show the progress since the beginning of the war of the Turkish divisions and the general movements of our Romanian allies (information and reporting from whom is not as detailed). Specifically, updating previous reports and focusing on more recent actions, the maps show the position of each formation at the start of the latest progress reporting period (18 November, covering the last two updates) and when they arrived at their current positions, to give an idea of speed of progress. Major battles (generally around 200 or more casualties on one or both sides) are depicted in detail, while skirmishes (noted in the more detailed battle diary reports) are marked with a smaller battle symbol.
Situation on the southern ‘Hammer’ front, as at 0200 on 29 Nov 37.
Op Hammer – 2nd Corps. In the Adriatic sector (3 Cav and 15 Inf Divs), the previous frenetic rate of advance is halted as Yugoslavian forces appear in increasing numbers and the Battle ofNevesinje is lost on 26 Nov. Steady, but not spectacular progress is made in the centre by the rest of 2nd Corps, with the highlight being 1 Cav Div’s victory at the Battle of Sjenica on 22 Nov. A series of skirmishes in the east reflect the enemy’s efforts (so far unsuccessful) to break out of the narrowing Serbian Pocket.
Situation on the northern ‘Anvil’ front, as at 0200 on 29 Nov 37.
Op Anvil – 1st Corps. The long grind of the Battle of Visegrad ended in victory, with 1 and 3 Inf Divs eventually getting across the River Drina to secure the city on 26 Nov. Further south, deep in the Serbian Pocket, the now energised Romanians (led at the front by General Antonescu, who seems imbued with amazing enthusiasm to join his troops at the front) did their part by defeating the enemy at the Battle of Jagodina (only sketchy details are available) and by advancing all along the front. Notably, 1 Mtn Div in the north and 5 Inf Div in the south made long advances, the latter linking with 2nd Corps to close off the Serbian Pocket then striking west join the effort to relieve our Adriatic sector forces.
Summary. The generally good news from the front (it will never be perfect) was welcomed by the Cabinet, which now anticipated a breakthrough that will seize Sarajevo and Split, to have the war “before the end of the year”. They hope the next Cabinet meeting will be able to focus on industry, research, political developments and long-term strategies for bringing the Greater Turkish Republic up to modern standards.
Alignment Check. Foreign Minister Aras reports steady progress continues to be made on our realignment towards the Comintern. There have been no reports yet of attempts by different factions to affect our alignment, while Security Minister Kaya has not detected any obvious espionage activity by foreign powers. At the end of the year, Kaya will report on the effect this has had (if any) on the political scene in Turkey. While there is – quite properly – no weak-kneed cowering of the Government itself to democratic votes, it does have an impact on national unity and the make-up of the Assembly.
The final item of business is a special report by Intelligence Head Ögel.
Romania – the Secret of Our Success
Many in the War Cabinet were pleasantly surprised (after much initial worry) regarding Romania’s suddenly enthusiastic embrace of the offensive spirit in our war on Yugoslavia. Some wondered how it had been achieved. Professor Markkur, of the Balkan Institute of Strategic Studies, had even published an article in the Istanbul Times remarking on the sudden energy and competence displayed by our new allies.
Intelligence Head Şükrü Âli Ögel therefore offered a confidential briefing to the Cabinet on Turkey’s innovative and highly successful liaison program with the Romanian High Command.
Romanian armour on the advance in the ‘Battle of the Serbian Pocket’. Their sudden conversion to Turkish ‘RAW War’ doctrine was a welcome surprise for many.
“As you know, gentlemen, at the start of the war against Yugoslavia we had appointed liaison officers within the Romanian High Command to assist their understanding of the orders, or let us say ‘firmly stated requests’, provided by Turkey to coordinate our efforts. This was especially important given the Turkish Army would be striking ahead at key enemy cities using our RAW (Rapid Aggressive Warfare) precepts, leaving us vulnerable to outflanking and supply line disruption.”
“In the initial stages of the war, not only did it seem the Romanians were slow to move – they were not moving at all! It seemed a normal network of liaison officers and orders from our HQ in Ankara were not enough. It became clear that the Romanians were more used to – how shall I put it – a ‘firmer hand’ in such matters. The chain of command alone was not enough.”
“Our esteemed Prime Minister and Commander 1st Corps, General Inönü, sought my advice as he became more concerned about the exposure of our troops driving on Beograd and the ‘lack of alacrity’ on the part of our allies. With his permission, I approached President Atatürk with a less conventional plan. He agreed at once.”
Ögel paused for effect. “What I am about to brief you on now is highly classified and cannot be divulged. We not only wish to preserve the confidentiality of our operational methods, but there could be embarrassment for some of our more prominent Romanian allies – one in particular. He is himself neither a shy or retiring man, so our handling of this matter could undermine his future use to us should it become publicly known.”
Ögel passed around a sealed folder to each of the Cabinet members. In it (marked ‘Not to be released for almost 80 years – 27 March 2017’) is a short brief with a few key facts of the new and successful liaison program.
War was declared on Yugoslavia on 29 October 1937. On the northern ‘Anvil’ front, the Turkish Army would exclusively drive on Beograd across a very narrow front. We would rely heavily on supporting Romanian forces, which had been gathered on the border, to provide security to the north and south of the main thrust. It was not necessary for them to conduct major attacks, just to follow up at a slow but steady pace in accordance with objectives set in depth by our own High Command.
By 3 November (D+5), not only had the Romanian Army failed to advance in any meaningful way, but they appeared not to have even issued orders to their units to advance, despite repeated firm requests. At this point, General Inönü contacted Intelligence Chief Ögel for advice.
For some time, Turkish Intelligence has employed a private security consultant for various ‘odd jobs’ that required a particular kind of forceful persuasion. The operative, originally of Italian birth had (as it happens) enough Romanian to make himself understood. This was largely achieved with an innovative form of ‘sign language’. The operative had distinguished himself during the recent ‘wet ops’ program conducted against the Iron Guard in Bucharest, who had come to fear the very mention of his name. Just the man for this tricky job.
He was summoned to the private residence of the Office of the Chief himself. Because of the urgency of the situation, the interview was conducted in Chief Ögel’s home. That day, he was hosting his daughter’s wedding reception and had invited the operative along as a reward for his long and grisly service, personal loyalty to Ögel … and because it was convenient to mix business with pleasure.
The large and violent man was strangely nervous as he waited outside the study for his brief audience – he never thought he would be accorded such a personal honour. One of Chief Ögel’s aides opened the door to the study and waved him in.
He stumbled awkwardly through his rehearsed lines in heavily accented Turkish: “Chief Şükrü Âli Ögel, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your daughter... 's wedding... on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope their first child may be a masculine child. I pledge my never-ending loyalty.” He then hands Ögel a cash-filled envelope. “For your daughter’s bridal purse.”
Ögel takes the envelope and passes it to his aide. “Thank you, Luca, my most valued friend.” Luca Brasi is overcome by the moment. “Chief Ögel, I’m gonna leave you now, because I know you are busy.” As he backs out, the aide follows him and, outside, passes on the instructions he had in fact been summoned to receive. Luca Brasi was to become the chief civilian adviser to the leader of our Liaison Officer team in Bucharest.
The Chief LO, who happened to be President Ataturk’s godson, had been having great trouble persuading the Romanian Chief of Staff, the notorious General Victor Antonescu, to take any notice of the increasingly strident orders the Turkish High Command had been sending. The LO even offered a ‘facilitation payment’ of 100,000 Turkish Lira to consider signing the operational orders to his subordinate Romanian HQs. Antonescu refused point blank.
The next day, Brasi had arrived in Bucharest and accompanied the Chief LO to his next appointment with Antonescu. After a short meeting, Antonescu agreed to sign the operational order for 1000 Lira and a box of baklava. Afterwards, the Chief LO was asked how he had achieved this remarkable about-face.
“I made him an offer he couldn’t refuse,” said the Chief LO. “What was that?” his Adjutant asked. “Luca Brasi held a gun to Antonescu’s head, and I assured him that either his brains – or his signature – would be on the orders. That’s a true story.”
Luca Brasi, Special Adviser to the Turkish Liaison Mission in Bucharest, 5 November 1937.
A more than usually pensive General Ion Victor Antonescu, Romanian Chief of Staff and (in another timeline) ally of the despicable Iron Guard and would-be ‘Conducător (leader) of Romania’. Picture taken just after his visit from Luca Brasi. The signed operational orders can still be seen on his desk. [Ed. A visit on him by Luca Brasi is, I think, poetic justice.]
Coming Up: Can Turkey finish the campaign in time for the New Year and avoid Axis intervention? Will Luca Brasi’s unique form of motivation continue to work wonders with our allies? Can Braanszon Guildenstern stay moderately sober for an extended period (at least until New Years, when he hopes to take some leave in New York to celebrate victory and another fat bonus)? What will come next after the Yugoslavian war? Stay tuned for the answers to these important questions.
Hum...I wonder if part two and three live up to the great expectations of the first Godfather plan.
So...what did you do? Did the AI suddenly start working really well and you had to cover or did you take direct control?
Was that Italy in the axis alliance that I saw?
And Yugoslavia is coming along nicely. Already got many of their forces pocketed up, control of a lot of coastline and so on. The interesting bit now is how you want to go about the borders with the axis nations. Do you take them now and use them as a flanking manoveur to take Yugoslavia quicker or do you hold back so all your armies arrive at the border last and at the same time, ready for any potential cohtner attack? Both good options.
Hum...I wonder if part two and three live up to the great expectations of the first Godfather plan.
So...what did you do? Did the AI suddenly start working really well and you had to cover or did you take direct control?
Was that Italy in the axis alliance that I saw?
And Yugoslavia is coming along nicely. Already got many of their forces pocketed up, control of a lot of coastline and so on. The interesting bit now is how you want to go about the borders with the axis nations. Do you take them now and use them as a flanking manoveur to take Yugoslavia quicker or do you hold back so all your armies arrive at the border last and at the same time, ready for any potential cohtner attack? Both good options.
No, believe it or not, it just started working . I'm on a 'no tag pledge', so maybe it just took them a while to 'get ready' - a mystery to me. I'm hoping the many objectives I gave them worked rather than confused.
I think I will probably keep my distance from the Axis borders, as I don't intend to defend forward. Will sit in depth and be prepared to run away if attacked. I have no illusions about how long I'd last at the moment and can adjust later if opportunities present.
That's Hungary in the Axis - I think Italy's neutrality may still be too high to join (ie over 25).
Yes, it's opened up a few good plot options for later - I'm a bit of a 'Godfather tragic' as we say here, so I won't be able to resist. Nothing personal, purely business . "Badfellas"
To my dear readers: I'm currently travelling at the moment, will be back home for a couple of days then overseas from Wednesday to Sunday for work, so am not sure if I'll be able to get another update done until a few days after my return. Will try, but may not get there.
But fear not, this will give any (very welcome) new readers a bit of time to catch up if you are so inclined (happy to take any comments or questions from earlier chapters - I definitely won't consider it necromancy ).
Making the bold assumption that I'm able to knock over the poor old Yugos in the next few weeks, I'm also happy to take views, observations or suggestions as to where Greater Turkey should go next: attack someone else; go into a couple of years of research, industrial expansion and infrastructure development; buy licences and produce some more 'exotic' (for us) units; develop jets and nukes ; or whatever.
In the meantime, I can report that Braanszon Guildenstern continues to moderate his intake of noxious substances but needs creative inspiration, while Luca Brasi's use of 'persuasive sign language' in Bucharest seems to have energised Romanian generals to get into the field and continue driving west at gratifying speed .
I've played the next week and a bit and I must say our allies have now gone beyond our most optimistic expectations . The use of multiple and frequently updated ally objectives seems to be working very well. But our plucky enemy remains in the fight.
And for anyone who has been a 'silent partner' so far but would like to have a say, the next week is well suited for it. No obligation to become a regular contributor or anything, but I will reply to all comments and welcome any opportunities to learn the game better (I consider myself somewhere between recruit and trained rifleman in the order of HOI3 battle expertise) .
Long Live the Greater Turkish Republic of Ataturk and Inonu!
Time to PLAN!
First of all, Greater Turkey needs a new name. Let's be honest, we can do better than naming the republic 'the slightly larger' now it is genuinely massive. Considering the rather wonderful names various states and empires have had in the area you are in, you have a grand legacy to keep going and some stiff competition. Still, I'm sure your ad team can come up with something.
Second, depending on how Yugoslavia went (and assuming turkey took it all rather than vassalising or splitting it with Romania), you now have some very dangerous borders. At this point, it's time to about turn and march straight to Persia and get some lovely oil and desert to balance out the wet and miserable balkans you just took.
Third, everyone is either going to be pissed at you (the axis in general and maybe the US) but everyone else is probably going to be secretly relieved. The balkans have now been 'sorted out' to use the 30's inasane logic, and the axis have been quite effectively stood up to by a minor power. No selfresoecting great power is going to back down to them now (though considering France and GB of the period...). The soviets might still play ball with them for a while if they think they can take Eastern Europe whilst Hitler takes on the West, but the chances of Hitler getting away with everything he did in our timeline before Poland is now a little less likely.
Fourth, plan for a war with Italy and potentially Hungary as well. The situation for Germany remains relatively unchanged...they can still 'unify' with Austria and take over some places without a fight but Italy has nowhere to go bar Africa (which...well, okay maybe but considering he's picking between the allies and turkey...it makes more sense for him to attack you unless Germany has already started ww2). Hungary is probably a dead cert for invasion because they literally can't do anything else but attack you. If Italy and Germany are busy with France, Hungary is going to be the one making sure you don't strike at that 'soft underbelly' whilst the cats are away.
So to summarise, finish whatever and all expansion plans you had before this war because probability suggests you're going to be fighting two axis countries soon-ish. If you are very unlucky, Germany will do so well in France that it doesn't need Italy invading from the south and so can focus on you. All of this is academic if you can't get the soviets to at least not kill you but this is what I can see happening in the future. It is possible you will only be fighting Hungary because Italy and Germany get bogged down in France and Africa. In my opinion, fighting defensively is probably your best shot. Doing well aggressively only brings you closer to Germany (and might set the soviets off) so sit tight with a ton of defences and planned retreats until either they exhaust themselves or someone comes to save you. That doesn't mean be idle though. I'm sure you don't want them to win in the Middle East or Africa and give them another front to fight you with. Depending on whether you can get any claims and land in the middle east first, this might be hard or easy.
Overall, you have a defensive war to plan for your European side and some interesting decisions on what to do with turkey and the Middle East itself.
Thanks Butterfly Effect:
Re name - good point. It's kind of provisional at present. Was thinking of changing when we join the Comintern, but the names of communist states are the very antithesis of imaginative! The team will definitely have to get thinking on that one.
Re Persia: a serious option, Case Green remains on the planning books, though oil isn't too much of a problem at the moment: it might become so in the future.
On your third point: agree, this was pretty much central to our strategy, though it could still come unstuck, I think most likely between the fall of France (assuming that still happens pretty much as in OTL) and when Barbarossa generally occurs. Not sure if our Balkan adventures may upset the apple cart.
Point four: I certainly do need to be prepared for those contingencies, at least until the point I join the Soviets. Though is it certain/likely either one will attack before 1939 and the Even Greater War starts? I don't know !
My risk there is, if defending forward against Italy and Hungary, they may call in Germany, and I risk my generally foot-mobile infantry army being caught by German panzers and air power before I can get them back to a narrower and more defensible front. I'm willing to sacrifice most or even all my Balkan conquests if the alternative is having my army obliterated and the Motherland overrun. It will be a key strategic choice and I need to develop doctrine, units and forts now (some of which have been started).
Your summary: I'm actually pretty confident the Soviets will lay off me until I can join them, then attacking me means being at war with the Allies, the SU and me at once, which I hope then leads to the Soviets holding then prevailing and thus steering towards a factional victory - even if it takes a while. That is part of the interesting strategic uncertainty I hope my approach this time has created: not just a standard by-the-numbers WW2 run through against an overmatched AI.
Your summary: yep, my conclusion too. The nuance will be in whether the defence is forward or in depth, or perhaps the option of the former against the Axis B-team, but the latter well prepared for when the Germans come a-calling.
And I do have time I think for another early ME adventure but will need to confirm the benefits and risks (one of which is having the bulk of my small army tied down in Persia with only sporadically controllable Romanian allies to guard the Balkans from an Axis strike. PS: the war goal for Yugoslavia is conquest and they are still in the war after the short period I've played but not yet written up. I'm thinking ahead at present - which you have helped with.
Really appreciate a bit of in-depth strategic review and conclusions. Just what I was hoping for with this AAR
Was thinking of changing when we join the Comintern, but the names of communist states are the very antithesis of imaginative! The team will definitely have to get thinking on that one.
If you can pass it off as a way of appearing non-threatening to the unsuspecting foolish and corrupt capitalist powers, then it shouldn't be a problem.
You are going into an unequal partnership with the soviets. Oil and manpower are their strengths. Control as much of the former as you can outside of Russia, because you are going to rely on the latter. Plus from a non-gameplay standpoint, turkey would probably prefer to control their own oil supply and stick it to Persia (a rival going back centuries) rather than depend on Europe vassals (whose supplies are drying up) or the Allies, who are not necessarily your friends yet. Plus it means the soviets aren't going to do anything weird like attack India or something, and the Middle East at this point (bar certain ally colonies) is part of an empire that's rightfully yours and has just been balkanised. Makes sense I feel you can get away with it, to go after and reclaim that stuff.
My risk there is, if defending forward against Italy and Hungary, they may call in Germany, and I risk my generally foot-mobile infantry army being caught by German panzers and air power before I can get them back to a narrower and more defensible front. I'm willing to sacrifice most or even all my Balkan conquests if the alternative is having my army obliterated and the Fatherland overrun. It will be a key strategic choice and I need to develop doctrine, units and forts now (some of which have been started).
The big question in this AAR since you picked the soviets was always going to be how to defend Turkey until they (hopefully) crush the axis. Thing is, if the Italians decide to go after Turkey, they might go after you from the sea and get Hungary to at you from across their land border. Yes the Royal Navy and France might be able to stop them depending on the AI but if Germany hasn't started the big war yet, why would they step in?
I think for another early ME adventure but will need to confirm the benefits and risks (one of which is having the bulk of my small army tied down in Persia with only sporadically controllable Romanian allies to guard the Balkans from an Axis strike.
I refer to my Persian statement. Plus if the minor axis powers go after you before Germany starts a work war, you are...not necessarily screwed but in for a rough fight whatever you do. Whether leaving your borders weak because of that to go after ME makes what I just said a selfforfilling prophecy is up to you.
"Thanks Butterfly Effect"
I am actually not the personification of an AAR, even one that good. But that's TBC...
Sorry about the name thing (that response was composed about 2am and I'd been reading El Pip earlier) .
Doing this on my phone, so my usual pref for (like you) of quoting segments and replying to each is a bit laborious so please excuse the clunky methods here .
Re oil: thanks, food for thought there. You are not the only booster for a Persian option, and it was seriously considered for this last adventure. I might need to do it between now and Sep 1939 just to relieve the boredom of peace! The other concern I had with Persia on top of the Balkans is the effect on my threat to the Soviets, but that is just another risk calculation: it hasn't yet prevented any of the four recent wars (well five if you count Albania but that wasn't much except a threat increaser).
Re possible German intervention: well, all along I've been working off the same assumption that they wouldn't, so am hoping that pans out ok, but am just hedging my options in case Italy joins Hungary in the Axis before the 'big show' starts - highly likely - and then that limited war attack scenario occurs that you posited. Given what happened to Italy when they failed in their attack on Greece and I'll already by next year have a common border through Austria and Hungary with Germany ... just need to consider the possibility of a German bailout.
And the threat to ports is another thing that pushes me to the 'Calistar Line' defence along the Bosporus: fewer ports to have to defend from seaborne invasion (will also need an anti-invasion reaction force/s). Have played a game as the UK where their main fleet was crippled but they still tried to attack Malta about a dozen times with doomed amphibious invasions and Egypt a couple of times as well.)
I reckon there's now a good chance the appeasing Italians and that blowhard Mussolini will actually leave me alone now the scripted Albanian and thus Greek events are off the table. If they couldn't beat Greece by themselves, then a yet-to-be renamed mighty Turkish empire should have those pizza-eating surrender monkeys soiling their britches .
Thank once again for your detailed thoughts TheButterfyComposer, helps to think through these new and ahistorical considerations the War Cabinet will soon be pondering .
Oil can also be used for extra cash and maybe leverage for getting some plans for new equipment?
Plus having all that land spare will make it easier to supply your empire and lock down the other border with the soviets. It's you who wants to be ruling the middle east after the war is over, not the communists.
I will say however that the Persian option is one that would only be considered now, after all other things have proven successful and its far easier to listen to armchair military jingoistic types banging on about their pet projects. That and the risk with the Soviets might be too great. It's why I was rather hoping whilst I was reading that you'd pick the allies, as it guarantees a tough fight at some point but also that you'll get a heck of a lot of land and power after the war if you win and survive. With the soviets, you have to begin laying the groundwork now, before anything is even close to starting.
I would agree with the anti-invasion forces you have, probably with at least some tanks and mobile infantry that can be used to move quickly to reinforce places that have been unexpectedly attacked (if Italy's involved this will happen at least once). Navy-wise there is little you can do, though maybe you can help the airforce out?
Oil can also be used for extra cash and maybe leverage for getting some plans for new equipment?
Plus having all that land spare will make it easier to supply your empire and lock down the other border with the soviets. It's you who wants to be ruling the middle east after the war is over, not the communists.
I will say however that the Persian option is one that would only be considered now, after all other things have proven successful and its far easier to listen to armchair military jingoistic types banging on about their pet projects. That and the risk with the Soviets might be too great. It's why I was rather hoping whilst I was reading that you'd pick the allies, as it guarantees a tough fight at some point but also that you'll get a heck of a lot of land and power after the war if you win and survive. With the soviets, you have to begin laying the groundwork now, before anything is even close to starting.
I would agree with the anti-invasion forces you have, probably with at least some tanks and mobile infantry that can be used to move quickly to reinforce places that have been unexpectedly attacked (if Italy's involved this will happen at least once). Navy-wise there is little you can do, though maybe you can help the airforce out?
Yes, Air Force is one of the things I was hoping to use licences for, just do a bit of basic doctrine work for trying to fight second and third grade opponents and small German splinters. I'm not too worried about Soviet gains, as my primary initial game objective was a faction win. I'll kind of consider myself to be almost playing the SU on full AI direction with some fraternal assistance from their second biggest faction member. Plus see if maybe they will give me some LL and expeditionary forces once they have stabilised the Eastern Front. And to pick things up on the margins in the ME once we are on the road to victory. Time will tell.
Plus see if maybe they will give me some LL and expeditionary forces once they have stabilised the Eastern Front. And to pick things up on the margins in the ME once we are on the road to victory. Time will tell.
I am delighted to see my effect is spreading through out the boards, everything is proceeding as I have forseen.
That aside I have finally caught up and am impressed at your efforts, while being saddened (if in no way surprised) that the Little Entente faired so badly and that there was no new Balkan League. However this does suggest that you quite happily hit Persia safe in the knowledge the AI will do bugger all about it, and as others have pointed out better to get that done and in the bank nice and early. Another plus point would be the Red Sea ports which you'd expect to remain safely Allied (unless things are going horrifically wrong) and so could provide an alternative route for trade should the Italians extract too high a price on any Mediterranean convoys.
Another plus point would be the Red Sea ports which you'd expect to remain safely Allied (unless things are going horrifically wrong) and so could provide an alternative route for trade should the Italians extract too high a price on any Mediterranean convoys.
Indeed. Especially when you remember that the Allies are probably going to lose a lot of their oil supply in the Far East (and possibly in the Middle East too depending on how the Mediterranean war goes), having a plentiful amount of the stuff can be useful.
Of course, all might go well, you might take Persia, the war may not begin immediately and thus you have time to make a lot of stuff well-defended.
. But if the Germans unwisely just pass me by altogether, I might have richer pickings - before they wipe me out anyway 
