I would rather they break savegames if they can fix most problem fast by doing it.
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Uh, why? It's the same game as CS1, just slightly modified. And vanilla CS2 is better than vanilla CS1 at launch, it's incorporated more features. You can't really compare current CS1 with a dozen DLC and mods etc, once mods for CS2 come out things will change fast.
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People would agree if the game was not mostly broken. You would see some complaints about adding things back via DLC etc but nothing like the current level of displeasure with the game. TBH CO communication is not helping them either.
1/ talk about focusing on console release (why would you think this is clever? Current PC players have a broken game, they don't care about you wanting to make more money. Don't get me wrong preparing the console release probably helps with performance fix, but don't sell it that way)
2/ constantly shifting the blame to the consumers who had too much expectations and are now toxic. You should have told us to expect a broken game, expectations would have been correspondingly low.
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The numbers, per steamcharts, are way worse than I'd realized.
For the last 30 days, the average players are CS1 9,740.4 and CS2 9,198.1.
Let's give the most optimistic possible assumption and say that there's zero overlap, and thus the community is 18,938.5 total.
But that's below Dec 2022's 19,467.3 or Jan 2023's 23,835.9 for just CS1.
So somehow, this debacle has been so bad that both games put together have less interest than just CS1 had a year ago.
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This makes no sense to me. Why *wouldn't* I compare them? CS1 is a competitor in the market for CS2. Imagine if EA had put out exactly what CS2 did -- you'd be saying "no, this is so much worse than CS1 that I'm not buying it".
To me this reads like "I don't see why you're complaining about the car since it's so much better than a Ford Model T". Sure, this one is better than the old version of the other one, but that's the old version. Nobody's currently playing "vanilla CS1 at launch", so I don't care.
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Stats are cool and are always cooler when contextualized.
CS1 other than on release and a free weekend, did not break 10k monthly average 3 1/2 years after release. First real leap in monthly players is March 2020. Sunset Harbor DLC had just released and XQC streamed the game for the first time to an average of 30k viewers. I'm pretty sure that's all that happened March 2020.
But its above Nov 2022 and Oct 2022 when CS1 had a 16k and 14k monthly average. If we compare to those months, the franchise has more average players in spite of any 'debacle'.
In reality Dec 2022 & Jan 2023 saw a 75% off holiday sale on steam, the Financial Districts DLC release & XQC streaming the game twice to over 60k average viewers both times (technically the first stream was Nov 27, 2022 but probably had a bigger impact on Dec average).
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@thetawaves24.7
Don't bother. I also tried to be reasonable and objective. It's no use. Numbers are sometimes put into a completely arbitrary context.
Teenagers like to eat chocolate and teenagers often have acne. So chocolate causes acne. That's crazy!
My last suggestion to reconsider such fallacies was met with disagreement. My expectation of encouraging someone to think outside the box was unfortunately too naive.
Don't bother. I also tried to be reasonable and objective. It's no use. Numbers are sometimes put into a completely arbitrary context.
Teenagers like to eat chocolate and teenagers often have acne. So chocolate causes acne. That's crazy!
My last suggestion to reconsider such fallacies was met with disagreement. My expectation of encouraging someone to think outside the box was unfortunately too naive.
In fact this was the reason for me to get in touch with Cities Skylines.
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Personally I'm coming back after taking a break from the game for the last month. The initial pathfinding and service vehicle issues were annoying but seem to be mainly resolved. The current "game breaking" bugs at least can be worked around for the most part with more careful planning or just paying attention and loading an auto save when industrial taxes bug out. Got Thunderstore yesterday and got a few QoL mods. Worse than any bug right now for me is elementary school scaling, there's just not enough room while trying to keep the walkable happiness bonus as high as possible .
For a game that was announced less than a year ago, was in our hands some 8 months later, and is included in the game pass subscription I already pay for I'm fairly happy with what it is. The only other sequel where I was as excited as CS2 was Overwatch 2. Compared to Blizzard's handling of that franchise, one I dearly love(d), CO is doing great. They're communicating, patches are coming on a regular basis. When the biggest complaint about a game is that it doesn't have all the stuff that its predecessor had after an 8 year support cycle, and its biggest competitor is that aforementioned predecessor its a good place to be in. After OW2 I'd say I'm pretty happy that CO chose not to just reskin their game but to try to innovate even if its riskier and may upset some players in the short term. Judging from all the hate I've been seeing for them taking a holiday at the same time as half the world, upsetting their players is likely unavoidable.
It seems a lot of releases last year struggled at some point in their development. As an outsider to the industry I definitely wonder how much covid had an effect on the development cycles of these games. Or maybe that's just my cope because the alternative is that this is just the standard for new video games.
.For a game that was announced less than a year ago, was in our hands some 8 months later, and is included in the game pass subscription I already pay for I'm fairly happy with what it is. The only other sequel where I was as excited as CS2 was Overwatch 2. Compared to Blizzard's handling of that franchise, one I dearly love(d), CO is doing great. They're communicating, patches are coming on a regular basis. When the biggest complaint about a game is that it doesn't have all the stuff that its predecessor had after an 8 year support cycle, and its biggest competitor is that aforementioned predecessor its a good place to be in. After OW2 I'd say I'm pretty happy that CO chose not to just reskin their game but to try to innovate even if its riskier and may upset some players in the short term. Judging from all the hate I've been seeing for them taking a holiday at the same time as half the world, upsetting their players is likely unavoidable.
It seems a lot of releases last year struggled at some point in their development. As an outsider to the industry I definitely wonder how much covid had an effect on the development cycles of these games. Or maybe that's just my cope because the alternative is that this is just the standard for new video games.
Tried population rebalance mod? This one is a good workaround for elementary and high school eligibility.Worse than any bug right now for me is elementary school scaling, there's just not enough room while trying to keep the walkable happiness bonus as high as possible
I have it installed but I haven't used it yet. I didn't want to start introducing behaviour mods yet but I have the school capacity booster so its mostly solved.
I do think that surely regardless of numbers, we can all agree the fact that CS1 is consistently higher above CS2 is a worrying sign, is it not? There are times when the playerbase is nearly twice as high on a game nearly 10 years old vs the one that was supposed to be replace it. That’s not a sign of a healthy game particularly when it started off as one of the most sold Steam games of the year.@thetawaves24.7
Don't bother. I also tried to be reasonable and objective. It's no use. Numbers are sometimes put into a completely arbitrary context.
Teenagers like to eat chocolate and teenagers often have acne. So chocolate causes acne. That's crazy!
My last suggestion to reconsider such fallacies was met with disagreement. My expectation of encouraging someone to think outside the box was unfortunately too naive.
In fact this was the reason for me to get in touch with Cities Skylines.
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Why should I worry about that?
Do you mean CO could abandon CS2 and continue CS1? Unlikely.
I don’t think so either, that was not what I meant. It’s worrying for the games perspective and its future that a lot of players have left and from current events I’m not sure what might entice them to return.
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Whether the disappointed players come back or not, what difference does it make? A few hundred DLC sales more or less. That's peanuts.
It determines if there is enough interest to make the DLC in the first place, if CO ever get round to it.
I used to see this argument with Imperator (and agreed at the time privately), believe me I used to be like this as well until Paradox pulled the plug on it.
That’s not saying I think CS2 will end up like Imperator though, the circumstances are way different, as well as the starting point of each game.
In the simplest way I could think of it Coca-Cola sells Coke and Diet Coke they don't care they you're buying one or the other as long as you're buying their product. For now having continued interest in their previous game is a benefit for them since it has a ton of monetization that already exists for it. Their focus is CS2 and if you go and play CS1 while you're waiting for CS2 to improve that's the best outcome they could hope for given the circumstances.
You do have a point. I’m hoping that it is the case and that the game will get the love it needs
I think the fundamental issue for the diehard CS fans is not the performance or simulation issues but the lack of content or variety compared to CS1. If that's the case those players will likely return once there is content. Right now they're setting up the infrastructure to be able to deliver that content and once its in place between the community and what they put out we will have lots.
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Then continue to play CS1 with all of the DLC and mods until mods come out for CS2, comparing a fully expanded game with a non expanded version is comparing apples to oranges. Or, you know, enjoy being peeved.
For me no, that isn't the fundamental issue. I consider myself a "diehard"Citybuilder fan and played CS1 over 1500 hours and loved SC3000 en SC4. The most fundamental issue for me are the game breaking bugs. These have caused me to stop playing for now. The lack of content will resolve it self in the future but I am not confident anymore CO wil sort al the bugs out in a reasonable time (if at all). Now they announced in WoW9 that the patch update will slow down.
For me the most game breaking bug is the problem with public transport not working as it should (freezing buses, trains, trams and taxis). For a game developer specialised in public transport (cities in motion series and SC1) this is really worrissome, if this thing, something that CO specialised in, is still not resolved 3 months after release I'm loosing hope that they ever will and I am losing hope in their programming skills and their professionality.
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