• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Nothing I can specifically remember other than "freedom of choice" and "faction evolution".
Which both don't inherently require not having a limit be present if you ask me personally.
Yes, its still possible to have freedom of choice within 50 or 100 choices.

Faction evolution could encompass the end goal of mastering all affinities at great cost of speed and risks during gameplay, watching rainbow units or heroes spontaneously combust from the overwhelming power within them...that is a side effect of playing rainbow that would be interesting to see. Astral spawn, random lost wizard transformations of heroes, explosive manifestations from rainbow units would help bring soft restrictions to going rainbow. Perhaps controlling wonders could reduce percentage of spontaneous combustion or "lost" transformations.

Mono affinity builds could be the fastest to shape, the most thematic of typical fantasy archetypes, and most easy to use, at the cost of power and flexibility.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
1 Tier 4 Skirmisher/Polearm/Shield, 4 Tier 4 Fighters (all animals), Seven Tier 4 Shock Units and Eight Tier 4 Battlemages, and they both get a Tier 5 (if from the Lava Prison), while Archers and Supports don't have Any Tier 4 units... though amusing enough, the Lava Prison does have a Tier 5 Support.

Yeah, I have to agree, the class distribution at the higher ends of the game is extremely skewed. Considering how Mythics as a class is useless and the units don't feel all that strong, I feel like they should take some Mythics and give them classes. The Ironclad is absolutely a Tier 4 Archer, for example. The Righteous Judge and Rock Giant can be Skirmishers... and huh, not as many Tier 4 Mythics as I expected.

Still, it would help, and we can use Tier 4 Cultural Units to fill the space! Like, Primal and maybe Mystic could get Tier 4 Supports, Industrious would get a Tier 4... Polearm? Feels bad to give them a T3 and T4 Shield Unit. Maybe they could get the Archer? Oooh, maybe High could have the Tier 4 Shield Unit? Barbarian gets a Tier 4 Skirmisher, Reaver a Tier 4 Archer and Oathsworn... Tier 4 Polearm, perhaps?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
1 Tier 4 Skirmisher/Polearm/Shield, 4 Tier 4 Fighters (all animals), Seven Tier 4 Shock Units and Eight Tier 4 Battlemages, and they both get a Tier 5 (if from the Lava Prison), while Archers and Supports don't have Any Tier 4 units... though amusing enough, the Lava Prison does have a Tier 5 Support.

Yeah, I have to agree, the class distribution at the higher ends of the game is extremely skewed. Considering how Mythics as a class is useless and the units don't feel all that strong, I feel like they should take some Mythics and give them classes. The Ironclad is absolutely a Tier 4 Archer, for example. The Righteous Judge and Rock Giant can be Skirmishers... and huh, not as many Tier 4 Mythics as I expected.

Still, it would help, and we can use Tier 4 Cultural Units to fill the space! Like, Primal and maybe Mystic could get Tier 4 Supports, Industrious would get a Tier 4... Polearm? Feels bad to give them a T3 and T4 Shield Unit. Maybe they could get the Archer? Oooh, maybe High could have the Tier 4 Shield Unit? Barbarian gets a Tier 4 Skirmisher, Reaver a Tier 4 Archer and Oathsworn... Tier 4 Polearm, perhaps?
We need seige units, ironclad would work better as a ranged seige unit. And we need enchantments for those too.
 
Yes, its still possible to have freedom of choice within 50 or 100 choices.

Faction evolution could encompass the end goal of mastering all affinities at great cost of speed and risks during gameplay, watching rainbow units or heroes spontaneously combust from the overwhelming power within them...that is a side effect of playing rainbow that would be interesting to see. Astral spawn, random lost wizard transformations of heroes, explosive manifestations from rainbow units would help bring soft restrictions to going rainbow. Perhaps controlling wonders could reduce percentage of spontaneous combustion or "lost" transformations.

Mono affinity builds could be the fastest to shape, the most thematic of typical fantasy archetypes, and most easy to use, at the cost of power and flexibility.
Huh, yeah that would be interesting to see as realm trait at least, AI would most definitely have problems if it won't be adjusted for that tho.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I never played Planetfall but I like the idea of enchantment slots for weapons, armors, skin etc. Additional slots could be bought with Imperium, come through city structures etc.. "Runesmiths" could also increase the limit, since the original effect would become less useful.

I very regularly play free for all with some friends always with AI set to brutal but around midgame fights against them are no challenge for any of us and I think one reason is that they don't go for enchantments as much as we do. In most Tomes we research transformations and enchantments are the highest priority.

My hunge is that although paradoxical, having limited slots allows for more options and interesting choices. I don't see the problem that was mentioned that early enchantments would become useless. If that's the case, fine. It's the same with early spells.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I never played Planetfall but I like the idea of enchantment slots for weapons, armors, skin etc. Additional slots could be bought with Imperium, come through city structures etc.. "Runesmiths" could also increase the limit, since the original effect would become less useful.

I very regularly play free for all with some friends always with AI set to brutal but around midgame fights against them are no challenge for any of us and I think one reason is that they don't go for enchantments as much as we do. In most Tomes we research transformations and enchantments are the highest priority.

My hunge is that although paradoxical, having limited slots allows for more options and interesting choices. I don't see the problem that was mentioned that early enchantments would become useless. If that's the case, fine. It's the same with early spells.
You are correct. Having a limit will force more strategies and specific choices to be made. Now you just collect them all non-stop.
It will also give other tomes (with no enchantments/transformations) more room to breathe, as well as open up more units in a comp.

The only people against this are the ones who want to just infinitely stack more and more things in single player.
 
I don´t want a limit on enchanments. Listen guys. There are different types of players. Players like me who are playing more for the roleplay and fantasy aspect don´t want a limit to tome stacking. Not everybody is a number cruncher! And this game is not a high elo e sport game!
 
Last edited:
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I don´t want a limit on enchanments. Listen guys. There are differente type of players. Players like me who are playing more for the roleplay and fantasy aspect don´t want a limit to tome stacking. Not everybody is a number cruncher! And this game is not a high elo e sport game!
I play exclusively single player and I am in favor of restrictions. But these things don't have to be exclusive. The restrictions or lack of restrictions could be implemented like the map option that removes all tome affinity requirements, so you can toggle them on or off.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
The real problem with enchantment stacking is that there are no opportunity cost. I mean, the difference in upkeep between a T2 and a T3 is significant. But a +2 damage enchantment is not.
If a strategy is effective and cheap it has to be nerfed in some way - not killed.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I play exclusively single player and I am in favor of restrictions. But these things don't have to be exclusive. The restrictions or lack of restrictions could be implemented like the map option that removes all tome affinity requirements, so you can toggle them on or off.
Well i would be fine with this solution. As long at is not completely removed from the game.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
The real problem with enchantment stacking is that there are no opportunity cost. I mean, the difference in upkeep between a T2 and a T3 is significant. But a +2 damage enchantment is not.
If a strategy is effective and cheap it has to be nerfed in some way - not killed.
Thats what enchantment upkeep is supposed to do, prevent limitless enchantment stacking. There's also more dimensions to this argument though. It would be impossible to get all enchants and minors in a multiplayer game, but single player can see it happening by drawing out the game.

Some players want to create factions with enchantments and transformations from two different affinities. A hard numbered restriction prevents that fantasy or strategy from working out. There should be a means to dissuade overstacking enchants and transformations. What should those means be if not hard capping by number of enchants?
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Disagree. They have nothing empowering them to be strong early game compared to other cultures.
Their economy is non-existent. Their units are of average power and their combat passive is weak.

I'd take a 1v1 with any other culture vs Dark and guarantee I'll win every time. They have no benefits.

They have very good units, in the early game, because they have access to two shock units, which means they can wreck basic infantry formations. In the late-game, everyone has powerful units from their tomes, so base dark culture simply fails to adequately fill in the 'gaps' in their tomes and rather they have to research tomes to 'replace' their regular units.

When playing versus the AI, sure. That's the only time "horde tactics" can potentially work. This is absolutely not the case in multiplayer.
Fights are so unbalanced that generally speaking they end 18v3, it is extremely rare for a fight to go somewhat even between players.
And this is when both players bring the same level of units. If they bring weak "chaff" then they will get absolutely wiped every time.

Example from yesterday (spoiler, Wyverns still suck). The player piloting the Wyverns is the best player I know of.
He even tried to "abuse" Draconic Rage by attacking his own units and then healing them back to full HP after.
Also the player on the left received Spider Mounts and Demon Step from the shop. Winning thanks to RNG imbalance.

View attachment 1279389

When I played against the AI, I ended up with only four units left from my second, victorious wave, so it wasn't exactly cheap. The main problem I faced was that the AI cheats meant they could quickly replace their doomstacks in the middle of a besieged city, but none of that applies to another human player. You cannot win a war of attition against the AI, because the AI cheats.

If you don't turn off simultaneous turns, (they should actually just abolish it from the game altogether), then yes the doomstack problem cannot be solved in multiplayer. Without classic turns on however, players cannot avoid their doomstacks being swarmed since they cannot move damaged doomstacks away in the other players turn.

The wyvern-loving player you mentioned, they killed about half the enemy army, in particular they killed three ironclads, two heroes and damaged the remaining two ironclads. They should have retreated with their heroes though, rather than sacrificing them like that, that way they could created a new stack of wyverns for them to lead rather than having to spend gold on buying new heroes, which could have gone on wyverns. A good build here for swarming would be to make sure to get Order Adept for your heroes, so you can buy Keeper's Mark, allowing them to escape death more easily, especially if they are mounted or wearing speed-shoes.

If a second wyvern stack were deployed at this point, they would either win, or the opposing player would be forced to retreat after so 'pyrrhic' a victory, allowing the other player to quickly replace their lost units, since they no longer have to pay the upkeep of their 'dead' units. Given they are both human players, neither gets to cheat their way to a new army, meaning that a war of attrition could actually work.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I don´t want a limit on enchanments. Listen guys. There are different types of players. Players like me who are playing more for the roleplay and fantasy aspect don´t want a limit to tome stacking. Not everybody is a number cruncher! And this game is not a high elo e sport game!
Are you RPing a number cruncher and spamming enchantments by any chance? xD

But no seriously how long are your games and roughly how many tomes and how many enchantments/transformations do you end your games with?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Yes the shock unit T1 of dark is really good on paper. Problem is more : economically.
Same boat that reavers. You can have great units (T2 / T3 for Reavers, all for Dark) but if the economy is awful, early is pretty slow. Sorry but a LOT of cultures have great units too. It is not an argument.

And no, rush the first city is not always a good idea. Depend on world threat. I am masochist, I play on high threat. And you can never do that with theses cultures (Reavers, Dark). It is impossible. If you do that, you lose a city and it is a mess, you lose more gold than anything else. Ironically, Reavers are based on that (crazy !)

At war, Reavers should be kings early. Listen to me : they are the worst of all cultures. The worst. At contrary, the best for reaver is to slowdown the early, consolidate foundations

In early, try to create 4 units T2 with giant under Reavers. Look at your gold, look at your mana and same for all cultures. Economy is everything. Monarchy is extremely appealing for this reason, same for industrious.

Barbarian is in a different situation. This culture is strong because she is active, flexible AND powerful.

When you don't have sunderer, or you have a wish sunderer (= harrier), and not either economy boost, you play Reavers or Dark (Irony, I know).

And Dark and Reavers also have this in common : a double check to benefit from a bonus :
Marked % --> Damage
Immobilized % --> Subdue % --> Effect
Weakened % --> Damage

Awful. Too much actions for potential miss. When I do a spell with mystic, my boost is garanted. When I do a critical hit under barbarian, my boost is guaranteed. When I am a feudal, my 10 % are guaranteed.

High is in a different situation. This culture have few bonus, but synergies are weird, even more with this agenda, and the system to profit of differents boosts are also very weird.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
No kidding. In my recent game, I was pillaging a teleporter and got hit by a 3-stack by the AI, then in a few turns after, I hit a 2-stack, and then I went to siege the city, and like freaking magic, six stacks appeared out of thin freaking air!
I am seeing the opposite trend after the new update, when AI sends a single stack or a single hero to attack my cities.
 
They have very good units, in the early game, because they have access to two shock units, which means they can wreck basic infantry formations. In the late-game, everyone has powerful units from their tomes, so base dark culture simply fails to adequately fill in the 'gaps' in their tomes and rather they have to research tomes to 'replace' their regular units.
Dark Warrior is a contender for the worst unit in the entire game. Pursuer is horrible as well.
Not to mention that they don't have a Support unit in their roster, so no buffs/sustain.

I'm sorry, but this shows that you only play vs AI and aren't experienced at all vs a challenging opponent.
The dominant cultures are the ones with T1 Shield units, the exception being Oathsworn's Honor Blade.

If a second wyvern stack were deployed at this point, they would either win, or the opposing player would be forced to retreat after so 'pyrrhic' a victory, allowing the other player to quickly replace their lost units, since they no longer have to pay the upkeep of their 'dead' units. Given they are both human players, neither gets to cheat their way to a new army, meaning that a war of attrition could actually work.
No. Because these are units that evolve from T1s. You can't just "make another wave". It doesn't work that way.
It doesn't even work that way with drafted T3s, because the economy required would be far too great.
Going up a tier is always worth more than trying to draft another set of 3 armies of a lower tier.

My whole point is that this player lost because he played T3s vs a T4/T3 mixed army. Tiers matter.
The reason you win vs AI with waves of garbage T1/T2 units is because the AI is absolutely shit.
They don't stack enchantments and they build random units. Human players are entirely different.

Swarming does not exist in multiplayer. No matter what theoretical strategy you come up with.
 
  • 1
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Dark Warrior is a contender for the worst unit in the entire game. Pursuer is horrible as well.
Not to mention that they don't have a Support unit in their roster, so no buffs/sustain.
...
Yeeeah, I don't get why people say that DW is good (even on paper) the thing is the most flimsy melee culture unit. It has 66 EHP and not particularly great damage. (for reference Barb Warrior has 118EHP, yes yes it is not the same class but it shows how big the gap is)
 
He is mainly good because this is charge unit, in a tier where generally you don't have this. Early, disable retaliation and do full damage at reach is precious. Differences are small at this time. So extremely useful when you know what you're doing.
It is not a champion of defense.
It is not even the best T1, or one of the best, mainly because he has only 32 moves. (Deserves at least the optional cavalry IMO)

But it is a good and efficient unit if correctly used. Those than tell it is one of the worst don't really play the game with Dark culture. For sure, it tolerates few retaliations. Equal number or outnumber is preferable. Timing is extremely important with this unit. Mid and endgame, of course not at level, but like what ? it is a T1. There are far worses T1 units in this game, and better ones.

Play a shield unit is generally far more simple, 1 because they are in better position globally in this game, with better skills (stun etc / Cavalry optionnal). 2 because timing is generally more forgivable. One mistake with dark warrior, you lose a unit.

So yes, Dark is bad, but the poor dark warrior is not even the true culprit : p
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions: