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Nice work, Crisisman! One can see the accumulated beta-testing experience in this campaign - there is a lot of good reusable ideas here, especially regarding the German Naval options
Two questions come to my mind:
1) It seems that your antique Great War CVs are in combat terms as effective as are the new ones - their upgraded CAGs are giving them excellent combat stats. I suppose that the only (and by no means little) difference is that their sailing stats are worse that those of a modern CV (like their speed and range in their first place). However, this comes secondary once the battle takes place - Turnes out that you have battle-wise modern and sailing-wise obsolete carriers, right? An interesting and IMHO very rewarding choice as Germany, because the speed and range are your secondary concerns in the limited theatre you are operating in.
2) TC! You continue to choose annexing over puppeting, as many people (myself included) did in HOI1. However, under the rules of HOI2 this is supposed to cost you a lot in terms of having to suppress partisans (like we have already seen from your AAR) AND having increased TC load. Could you please elaborate on this, from your own experience.
Thanks a lot!
P.S. I'd like to see you try the Sealion, it could be most challenging and interesting
Two questions come to my mind:
1) It seems that your antique Great War CVs are in combat terms as effective as are the new ones - their upgraded CAGs are giving them excellent combat stats. I suppose that the only (and by no means little) difference is that their sailing stats are worse that those of a modern CV (like their speed and range in their first place). However, this comes secondary once the battle takes place - Turnes out that you have battle-wise modern and sailing-wise obsolete carriers, right? An interesting and IMHO very rewarding choice as Germany, because the speed and range are your secondary concerns in the limited theatre you are operating in.
2) TC! You continue to choose annexing over puppeting, as many people (myself included) did in HOI1. However, under the rules of HOI2 this is supposed to cost you a lot in terms of having to suppress partisans (like we have already seen from your AAR) AND having increased TC load. Could you please elaborate on this, from your own experience.
Thanks a lot!
P.S. I'd like to see you try the Sealion, it could be most challenging and interesting
873 said:
Thanks! Feel free to hijack and improve upon my ideas. Much of this is stuff I've wanted to try, but never had the chance while testing.
In general, this is accurate. However, there are a few significant combat differences. First, average fleet speed is used in the combat distance calculation, so more slow ships will result in less ideal combat range. Second, GW CV are easy to sink(if you can bring your own firepower to bear on them). Third, the CV max engagement distance is that of the CV+CAG. Therefore, with equal CAGs a later model CV will often get the first shot in. Since earlier model CV have lower defense values this becomes dangerous and you can see Midway like results. So, if you desperately need CVs, those light carrier groups will work, but against a modern CV fleet you want your own modern CVs.
Yes and no. The increase in TC is a result of either a. occupying territory that is not annexed yet(USSR and UK can be big TC drains) and b. out of control partisan effects(each 1% of partisan activity gives a .03 TC hit...not much in small doses, but it adds up fast if you have 20%+ per annexed province. Therefore, you have to make some tradeoffs. In this AAR I have actively limited my conquest choices to nations that I can actually annex, thus minimizing the long term TC drain. This is why Greece is still alive.
I can't get to Crete, yet. Once I get going into France, the Low Countries and the UK, you will rapidly see my TC load increase. The question will be...will my capacity be able to keep growing to match the increased burden, or will I become bogged down in the USSR? This is the primary reason I am going to use the "Oaf in Rome" as an ally rather than a target. It will share some of the occupation burden and free me from having to spend too much effort in Africa(I hope).No problem, these are intelligent, well articulated questions. Sealion will be a challenge, but I am learning a few things just from this game. The question will be, have my efforts against the RAF and RN been sufficient to allow me to get to the beach and land the troops? My next report on France will give some idea. Hint: My first attempt to land at Calais to help encircle the forces in the Dunkirk pocket was turned back after the transports were very nearly sunk(one was down to just 4% strength when I finally managed to abort)...Doh! That was close!
interesting, so does the royal navy pose any large realistic threat anymore? I'm guessing not.
What about the British air force do you think it will put up more of a fight?
If you are planning to launch sealion soon after taking France then is that not a bit risky.
I really hope that if you launch it then the SU ai will be smart enough to attack you. If its not then that is something that should be changed in a patch.
i.e. Soviet ai should consider attacking once Germans invade British home isles. I dont know about programming much but I dont think that should be hard to code.
Anywhy, good luck in your word conquest
P.S. How is the Russian army doing? More tanks then you?
What about the British air force do you think it will put up more of a fight?
If you are planning to launch sealion soon after taking France then is that not a bit risky.
I really hope that if you launch it then the SU ai will be smart enough to attack you. If its not then that is something that should be changed in a patch.
i.e. Soviet ai should consider attacking once Germans invade British home isles. I dont know about programming much but I dont think that should be hard to code.
Anywhy, good luck in your word conquest
P.S. How is the Russian army doing? More tanks then you?
Yeah, the very definition of "alternate"Tachikaze said:I think it's named after its destination.
But seriously, 12 CV's as Germany?? Talk about alternate history...
Most impressive figures.
Aanel said:
Enough of a threat to prevent a successful landing unless I'm very careful. The frustrating thing has been that each nation I annex ends up sending all their surviving ships to the RN. Therefore, the RN still has nearly 100 ships. Also, the Dutch Navy is HUGE...over 30 ships(mostly cruisers and DDs). They've been busy!
The RAF has been tough throughout. I've been able to wear them down over my home turf, with AA helping. I have concerns over my ability to take them out over their own home turf.
It will depend on the relative state of our forces at that time. If I am in a position to do so, and if the UK has lost enough strength during the French campaign, then I'll hit the beaches. I also want to reach Gibraltar through Spain, so I may have to choose one or the other. We'll see.
I don't think the USSR will ai will attack until after the historic barbarossa date. The bigger threat is the USA. There are events that increase US interventionism when certain key provinces fall into axis hands. That part of the BETA isn't my specialty, so I don't know what those key provinces are. If the US joins early it will definitely keep me busy.
The Sov army is keeping pace with me in front line troops, but I expect they are a step behind technologically. Since I'll have to leave a large chunk of the Heer on garrison/beach duty to defend against allied landings and partisans, I expect to hit USSR in early 1941 with about 1/2 my total strength. It should be fun.
GrimReaper said:
Ack...that seems so long ago now...It was about 5 or 6 rounds of building IC. The number in the works at any one time varied based on how much IC I could spare and still keep other projects going. Usually it was about 5 IC per round, +/-. Also, I somewhat under supplied myself up until 1939, when I began to create a wartime supply reserve.
I'm keeping an eye on the USSR. They aren't garrisoning their side of the border very well(2-3 div per province), while I've got 3-6 per province, so if they do decide to intervene I should be able to get a good start on them.
Gauging the USSR's strength by the number of divisions at the border is always deceptive. Since there's an ongoing war in Finland the Soviets have likely committed large numbers of forces there. In HOI 1 they'll throw around 100++, while maintaining 30-40 divisions near Vladivostock and 2-4 divisons in every province bordering Germany, with additional reserves in Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad totalling ~60. Even with initial successes it is still very easy to get bogged down and very hard to fight the temptation to over-extend.Crisisman said:
On the other hand even if they choose to declare war on you defending your current border is no problem. They are unlikely to pose much danger while Finland is still a nation.
Of course, I'm sure you already have some plans in mind for your Barbarossa. Good luck to you and Godspeed!
I understand your point. Newer carrier models offer both greater survivability (air def and sea def), better sea peformance (speed and operational range)Crisisman said:
and an increase in fighting distance (minor one, it seems it's enough only to get the first shot).
However, what is obviously missing (or at least I don't get it) is the most important improvement - bigger air wing on board the CV. Either I am terrribly wrong (please someone correct me soon) or it turns out that the 1920 GWC can carry exactly the same air wing as the 1945 Midway-class carrier or 1950 Nuclear Carrier, right?
In HOI1 and especially in C.O.R.E. the biggest and the most important improvement from one carrier to another was their increased capacity. HOI2 has chosen to use CAGs as brigades which is good for many reasons (out of scope) but sucks big in this one. If I have the turbojet CAG then it doesn't matter where they are flying from, right? But how about how many groups can one ship carry? Is that solved in any way?
(if it is not obvious so far, I haven't got the game yet
)If every carrier in the game can carry just one CAG, then why not build 4 cheap carriers with 4 CAGs instead of one big fancy expensive one that has 1/4 of attack capacity for the same price (not to mention the research costs). This is even more an attractive choice for German/Soviet player whose navies operate in limited theatres (at least at the beginning of the war)
Now I get it, thanks! I can see it takes a lot more planning for a successful campaign, which is veryCrisisman said:
France! France! France! Give us the update from French Campaign! We want it NOW!Crisisman said:My first attempt to land at Calais to help encircle the forces in the Dunkirk pocket was turned back after the transports were very nearly sunk(one was down to just 4% strength when I finally managed to abort)...Doh! That was close!
Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!
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Gjerg Kastrioti said:
Nice AAR!
But I'm little worried about this issue. IRL smaller conversion carriers were able to carry 1/3 or about half the planes. Hopefully this will be fixed in future patchs. Otherwise building newer carriers makes sense only if you need to counter advanced naval power like Japan or US. And still it sounds good tactic to build 1-3 GW carriers to counter one modern carrier. I'm pretty sure three old carriers with three times the planes can beat one newer carrier and one CAG.
How the Finns are holding? Are you sending any reinforcements or supplies to them? I hope my mother country is still holding against evil USSR. Please help the Finns to keep their independence!
El Savior said:I'm little worried about this issue. IRL smaller conversion carriers were able to carry 1/3 or about half the planes. Hopefully this will be fixed in future patchs. Otherwise building newer carriers makes sense only if you need to counter advanced naval power like Japan or US. And still it sounds good tactic to build 1-3 GW carriers to counter one modern carrier. I'm pretty sure three old carriers with three times the planes can beat one newer carrier and one CAG.
How the Finns are holding? Are you sending any reinforcements or supplies to them? I hope my mother country is still holding against evil USSR. Please help the Finns to keep their independence!
I'm working on the next installment now. You're not going to like what happens to Finland. Just when they think it's going to be safe to come out of their bunkers...
[edit - carrier discussion copied to general discussion.]
Let's keep the non-aar stuff in the general forum.
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Let me start by saying great AAR! You can count me among your readers.
If I'm not mistaken you won't save any research costs since the new CAGs are part of the carrier research tree so all you save is the cost of building more modern carriers.
@Crisisman
To what extent do you use brigades for your land units?
Could you please run us through the composition of your army groups brigade wise?
Do you use an MP brigade for all your garrisons or is that wasting too much manpower?
I'm just trying to learn a bit here
873 said:
If I'm not mistaken you won't save any research costs since the new CAGs are part of the carrier research tree so all you save is the cost of building more modern carriers.
@Crisisman
To what extent do you use brigades for your land units?
Could you please run us through the composition of your army groups brigade wise?
Do you use an MP brigade for all your garrisons or is that wasting too much manpower?
I'm just trying to learn a bit here
10 Days in France
April 20, 1940 : Westward Ho! Germany declared war upon the Netherlands and Belguim. The German primary assault in the west is on the move. In the first 24 hours of combat, German forces win initial victories in Antwerp, Arlon, Liege, Bastogne, Eindhoven, Arnhem and Groningen. The Marines also depart Kiel for an attempted landing in Calaise to quicken the closing of the ring around Dunkirk and capture more allied forces.
April 21, 1940 : The day following the start of Operation Fall Gelb, Stalin gets nervous. He sees that Hitler's war is anything but "phoney" and decides to stop bleeding himself dry in the frozen forests of Finland. They decide to settle for their original territorial claims in the Finnish Winter War. Finland, having nearly collapsed by that time, folded to the Russian demands. Also on this day, the KM and the assault transports encountered a mixed UK, Belgian task force and blasted a destroyer group and transport group out of the water. We won a battle in Brussels. The RAF didn't like that we had already siezed Antwerp and sent their heavy bombers to level the city. Antwerp took 3.96 percent of infrastructure in damage. Hitler reported to the world the barbaric mass bombing of a major city which resulted in thousands of civilian deaths. The Luftwaffe, stated Hiter, would never wantonly bomb large metropolitan areas. They are trained to be precise and attack specific military targets.
April 22, 1940 : The panzers rolled on, winning battles in Leeuwarden, Amsterdam, Namur, and Mons. The progress of the invasion force through the Chanell was monitored and a series of naval engagements occured. The KM scored several times, sinking HMS Effingham(CA), HMS Frobisher(CA), HMS Dorsetshire(CA), HMS Hawkins(CA), HMS Cumberland(CA), 1ère Flottille de Contre-Torpilleur(DD), 2de Flotielje Torpedoboten(DD). The KM and invasion transports took significant damage, but kept to their mission.
April 24, 1940 : We won a battle against France in Reims. The invasion fleet fought another pair of battles, this time the Dutch Navy played a significant role. The KM took more damage, and sank HMS Shropshire(CA), HMS Hermes(CV), and HNMS De Zeven Provincien(CA). The damage was mounting, but Raeder was determined to complete the mission.
April 25, 1940 : In the finale for the invasion force, the bulk of the Dutch Navy made a bold last stand. They lost HNMS Eendracht(CA), 17e Torpedobootjager Smaldeel(DD), and 4 submarine flotilla, but managed to get serious damage on the invasion transports. Raeder had little choice but to call off the landing and detour to the nearest available landing site. He dropped off the Marines in Amsterdam and sent the KM and transports back to Kiel. He then ordered the Baltic Flotilla and a second transport force to pick up the marines and try again against the now depleted Royal and Dutch Navies.
April 26, 1940 : We won battles against France in Chaumont and Valenciennes. The Marines finished reloading on their new transports.
April 27, 1940 : We won a battle against France in Compiègne.
April 28, 1940 : IV. Panzer Corps has arrived in Antwerp. We also defeated the French defenses in Amiens.
April 29, 1940 : We won battles against France in Paris. The marines got through successfully this time and landed in
Calais, Dieppe, Le Havre, and Caen. The Australian Navy made an attempt to disrupt the landings, but found their small vessels inadequate against the big guns and carriers protecting the landings. The effort cost them 2 DD flotillas. During all of this action, there has been a vicious and steady series of air battles over both land and sea. The Germans are managing to win most of the engagements, but not all. Several sorties are turned back by the RAF. The Dutch and French fly bravely, but they can't match the Improved 109s in the air. At D+9 Hitler is pleased, but has not slept much at all.
April 30, 1940 : We won battles against France in Argentan, Ghent and Lille.
Screenshots:
-WestwardHo shows the initial assaults into the low countries.
-FranceD+9 shows the linkup between Rommel's panzers and the Marines.
April 20, 1940 : Westward Ho! Germany declared war upon the Netherlands and Belguim. The German primary assault in the west is on the move. In the first 24 hours of combat, German forces win initial victories in Antwerp, Arlon, Liege, Bastogne, Eindhoven, Arnhem and Groningen. The Marines also depart Kiel for an attempted landing in Calaise to quicken the closing of the ring around Dunkirk and capture more allied forces.
April 21, 1940 : The day following the start of Operation Fall Gelb, Stalin gets nervous. He sees that Hitler's war is anything but "phoney" and decides to stop bleeding himself dry in the frozen forests of Finland. They decide to settle for their original territorial claims in the Finnish Winter War. Finland, having nearly collapsed by that time, folded to the Russian demands. Also on this day, the KM and the assault transports encountered a mixed UK, Belgian task force and blasted a destroyer group and transport group out of the water. We won a battle in Brussels. The RAF didn't like that we had already siezed Antwerp and sent their heavy bombers to level the city. Antwerp took 3.96 percent of infrastructure in damage. Hitler reported to the world the barbaric mass bombing of a major city which resulted in thousands of civilian deaths. The Luftwaffe, stated Hiter, would never wantonly bomb large metropolitan areas. They are trained to be precise and attack specific military targets.
April 22, 1940 : The panzers rolled on, winning battles in Leeuwarden, Amsterdam, Namur, and Mons. The progress of the invasion force through the Chanell was monitored and a series of naval engagements occured. The KM scored several times, sinking HMS Effingham(CA), HMS Frobisher(CA), HMS Dorsetshire(CA), HMS Hawkins(CA), HMS Cumberland(CA), 1ère Flottille de Contre-Torpilleur(DD), 2de Flotielje Torpedoboten(DD). The KM and invasion transports took significant damage, but kept to their mission.
April 24, 1940 : We won a battle against France in Reims. The invasion fleet fought another pair of battles, this time the Dutch Navy played a significant role. The KM took more damage, and sank HMS Shropshire(CA), HMS Hermes(CV), and HNMS De Zeven Provincien(CA). The damage was mounting, but Raeder was determined to complete the mission.
April 25, 1940 : In the finale for the invasion force, the bulk of the Dutch Navy made a bold last stand. They lost HNMS Eendracht(CA), 17e Torpedobootjager Smaldeel(DD), and 4 submarine flotilla, but managed to get serious damage on the invasion transports. Raeder had little choice but to call off the landing and detour to the nearest available landing site. He dropped off the Marines in Amsterdam and sent the KM and transports back to Kiel. He then ordered the Baltic Flotilla and a second transport force to pick up the marines and try again against the now depleted Royal and Dutch Navies.
April 26, 1940 : We won battles against France in Chaumont and Valenciennes. The Marines finished reloading on their new transports.
April 27, 1940 : We won a battle against France in Compiègne.
April 28, 1940 : IV. Panzer Corps has arrived in Antwerp. We also defeated the French defenses in Amiens.
April 29, 1940 : We won battles against France in Paris. The marines got through successfully this time and landed in
Calais, Dieppe, Le Havre, and Caen. The Australian Navy made an attempt to disrupt the landings, but found their small vessels inadequate against the big guns and carriers protecting the landings. The effort cost them 2 DD flotillas. During all of this action, there has been a vicious and steady series of air battles over both land and sea. The Germans are managing to win most of the engagements, but not all. Several sorties are turned back by the RAF. The Dutch and French fly bravely, but they can't match the Improved 109s in the air. At D+9 Hitler is pleased, but has not slept much at all.
April 30, 1940 : We won battles against France in Argentan, Ghent and Lille.
Screenshots:
-WestwardHo shows the initial assaults into the low countries.
-FranceD+9 shows the linkup between Rommel's panzers and the Marines.
Was it really neccessary to involve Belgium and Netherlands since AFAIK you got the Maginot line already ?
Neutral Low countries could be better for you than occupied/unnanexed ones - at least temporarily for a year or two.
Neutral Low countries could be better for you than occupied/unnanexed ones - at least temporarily for a year or two.
In Hoi1 the low countries had this tendency to join the Allies at the least desirable moment.
Now that he's busy gobbling up neutrals anyway, why leave the low countries out?
Now that he's busy gobbling up neutrals anyway, why leave the low countries out?
It looks like an easy way to bypass the massive french armies guarding their eastern border.Dievs said:
He took out his possible allies, why then he should leave neutrals, that can join allies at any time? :rofl: