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Reject

Aedan did a lot of the legwork re the Daffius/Audren claims, but there's a few things to add. Let's assume Daffius is right and Audren is a spy. Then Falc has to be a spy also. Mission 1 passes to throw people off the scent. Mission 2 crashes and burns, and Daffius is set up as a fall guy for proposing the mission. So far, so good. The problem is that round 3 Falc votes down a proposed mission (aedan's team: audren/jackson/aedan/deathbywombat) that would pass with his vote (it failed 5-5) - a proposed mission with AT LEAST one spy on it (Audren). Maybe he knows that I'm a spy and will propose a bad mission next round, but Panzer Commander took Falc's no confidence card, and said he was going to do so. Maybe he knows that Panzer Commander is a spy, will take the card, and will sabotage the next mission if it goes bad. Maybe Panzer and I are both spies, but why on earth would I propose a mission with 3 spies, especially since it's my first game and I don't know the coordination rules? Falc is taking a highly unnecessary risk by voting down a sure sabotage if he's a spy. Also, Daffius apparently voted for my proposed mission in PM, rejecting it publicly yet approving it in private. Why would he do that?

Add this to the fact that Ironhead used the KACEOY card and said that Audren voted a clean mission. Is he lying too, and therefore a spy? I suppose it's possible - this would essentially mean the spies have had every card this entire game, in which case, all I can say is well played. The spy team would likely be Audren/Falc/Ironhead/Panzer (or myself, I suppose) in that case.

Also note that Panzer now has at least one No confidence card, which he took from Falc with the Take Responsibility card. (Audren has the other one now, fyi - so we might want to get a move on a team...) This seems to indicate that he doesn't know Falc's role. However, he (Panzer Commander) believes Audren over Daffius, even though that requires Falc to be a good guy, and now puts him on a team. Odd, if you ask me. Add to that the fact that he gets on a sabotaged mission that passes 8-2 with 4 votes switching to his side... I have to conclude that he's a spy, and that putting him on any mission or accpeting any mission of his would be borderline lunacy.
 
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Reject

Aedan did a lot of the legwork re the Daffius/Audren claims, but there's a few things to add. Let's assume Daffius is right and Audren is a spy. Then Falc has to be a spy also. Mission 1 passes to throw people off the scent. Mission 2 crashes and burns, and Daffius is set up as a fall guy for proposing the mission. So far, so good. The problem is that round 3 Falc votes down a proposed mission (aedan's team: audren/jackson/aedan/deathbywombat) that would pass with his vote (it failed 5-5) - a proposed mission with AT LEAST one spy on it (Audren). Maybe he knows that I'm a spy and will propose a bad mission next round, but Panzer Commander took Falc's no confidence card, and said he was going to do so. Maybe he knows that Panzer Commander is a spy, will take the card, and will sabotage the next mission if it goes bad. Maybe Panzer and I are both spies, but why on earth would I propose a mission with 3 spies, especially since it's my first game and I don't know the coordination rules? Falc is taking a highly unnecessary risk by voting down a sure sabotage if he's a spy. Also, Daffius apparently voted for my proposed mission in PM, rejecting it publicly yet approving it in private. Why would he do that?

Add this to the fact that Ironhead used the KACEOY card and said that Audren voted a clean mission. Is he lying too, and therefore a spy? I suppose it's possible - this would essentially mean the spies have had every card this entire game, in which case, all I can say is well played. The spy team would likely be Audren/Falc/Ironhead/Panzer (or myself, I suppose) in that case.

Also note that Panzer now has at least one No confidence card, which he took from Falc with the Take Responsibility card. (Audren has the other one now, fyi - so we might want to get a move on a team...) This seems to indicate that he doesn't know Falc's role. However, he believes Audren over Daffius, even though that requires Falc to be a good guy, and now puts him on a team. Odd, if you ask me. Add to that the fact that he gets on a sabotaged mission that passes 8-2 with 4 votes switching to his side... I have to conclude that he's a spy, and that putting him on any mission or accpeting any mission of his would be borderline lunacy.


Aedan has already gone over that. If I am a spy and so is Audren, there was no need for me to be on the team. In fact, adding me would've been BAD for the spies since there'd have been two spies who had no way of coordinating a sabotage.
 
REJECT

Falc is a Spy; no need for me to analyze this team any further.

However, he believes Audren over Daffius, even though that requires Falc to be a good guy, and now puts him on a team.
Please explain this logic to me. I know with 100% certainty that Falc is a Spy; are you saying that if Falc is a Spy, then Audren must also be a Spy? (I know the reverse is true; if Audren is a Spy, Falc must be a Spy).
 
Apparently forgot to reject this mission. Sorry about that.

REJECT
 
I'm still not sure from my analysis earlier what the most likely spy team is, but I'm fairly certain this team has a spy on it.

Reject
 
As such I don't why Daffius "apparently" believes I should be on any team, I have made stupid plays and this could incriminate me, why on earth should PC put me on a team, at this stage I wouldn't even put myself on a team if we ever get far enough down for that to...

Reread what I wrote and use your brain. I explained the reason I think you should be on the team from Panzers perspective.

Let rewrite it; he thinks Ironhide is a spy. If thats his assumption, then he also knows one of me/Audren is a spy. He also knows that one of Falc/Ironhead is a spy. Thus since this mission needs 2 sabotaged, if he assumes Ironhide is a spy then the only logical step from him would be You, PC, DbW, Aedan, Jackson. Get it now? At least thats what I would have proposed.in his place...
 
I am glad to see at least one person considering the possibility that I'm being framed for everything.

As for the rest of the proposal... Audren, yes. Aedan and Panzer, maybe. Jacksonian, very likely a spy.

So I must REJECT, not because this mission wouldn't pass but because if this passes, we're going to lose on the last one.
 
Reject sorry for the lateness
 
Panzer Commader's proposal of Panzer Commader, Audren, Jacksonian Missionary, Falc, and aedan777 was REJECTED 9-1.

Approved: Panzer Commader
Rejected: Daffius, AvatarOfKhaine, Jacksonian Missionary, deathbywombat, Ironhead 5, Audren, aedan777, Falc, Ironhide G1

@AvatarOfKhaine , it is your turn to propose a mission of 5 players. This will be the second of 5 allowed proposals for this mission.
 
PROPOSED TEAM :

AvatarOfKhaine - I know I said I wouldn't even put myself on a team, but I can't get enough of a read on whether Ironhide is a bad spy or bad resistance member to trust him on this team with someone else as the 5th player out of 6 resistance members.
Jacksonian Missionary - Seems to be clean with few suspicious moments, could be a very long term spy but at this point there needs to be some faith with the large team sizes.
aedan777 (See below)
deathbywombat - Both of these two are coming out with long detailed posts explaining the different situations with great detail and I am slightly lost myself in who(m) I am even slightly trusting so I'll be a noob at this point and trust walls of text
Ironhide G1 - I'll be honest here and say that this is me believing him to simply be a bad resistance player and hoping it isn't simply a master spy's charade.

I also chose all these people because not one of them has been using such emotive language as "if we lose I get to call the other resistance members noobs" and this was a factor in me selecting this team.

Also just to make this implicit:

APPROVE
 
hmmmm... This is making have to think hard. I am getting the same vibe that Ironhide is simply a bad resistance player, but the absolutely detrimental card hand outs is really concerning to me. I also don't have a good reading on you Avatar, you've done essentially nothing to make me believe you are a goodie or a spy. I'm also not a huge fan of your rationale for putting Aeden and Wombat on this team, but to be fair, they aren't giving off any spy vibes. This isn't a bad team, I feel like this is one of the better teams you could've put down. But I don't trust you or Ironhide, so because of that

Reject
 
To add, I would prefer Audren to be on this team instead of Avatar or Ironhide, if not for the sole reason that he would have nothing to gain from exposing a fellow spy in Daffius and him being confirmed by Falc (who I think is a spy but wanted goodie points by scanning a clean player)
 
Yeah.... no.

REJECT

I certainly don't trust Ironhide, and your willingness to put Aedan and Wombat on the team solely for their ability to type a lot makes me less than favourable towards you, too.
 
Yeah.... no.

REJECT

I certainly don't trust Ironhide, and your willingness to put Aedan and Wombat on the team solely for their ability to type a lot makes me less than favourable towards you, too.

Especially considering I made my largest wall of text(well, not wall of text, it was actually well organized :cool:) when I was a spy:

Alright, let's go back right to the beginning.

*Begin blasting favourite playlist in the background*



The first odd thing to notice about this game. But frankly, I'm still struggling to find any reason for a spy to do this. So, goodie points? Unless his plan *was* to seem like a resistance member without actually doing anything that hurts him as a spy. Yeah, that's why you don't give goodie points on meaningless things let's just forget this.



I make my proposal as usual and...



Ha. Ha. Very funny.



This was Rovsea's comment on my proposed team of Myself+Alxeu. From a neutral perspective, the *actual* chance of that team being spy-free is ~28%. Now, Rovsea might have just known that spies rarely sabotage the first mission. If he did, on his very first game, good on him. But looking back at it, no matter which spy team we choose, from the perspective of Spy!Rovsea, this *was* a guaranteed success. Making the right deduction, or trying to set up goodie credit? I guess we'll see.



My team was rejected by everyone except the two people on it, and Rovsea. Both our possible spy pairs rejected it. Goodie points for me and alxeu? Perhaps a bit less to alxeu, given he'd likely be on the next team anyway, but then...



Not any better. Same approvers. Same rejecters. The problem is, alxeu, rovsea and I can't possibly all be resistance members.



And now, the curious proposal. We've already talked about this. Baddie points to Rovsea.





Rovsea playing around. It struck me as odd and still does. That's a pretty darn confident attitude to be taking for a first time player, especially a confused, in-the-dark resistance member.



Falc faking carelessness. (You don't actually reject a team for not being on it without checking first)



Rovsea being ostentatious again. Hm...



Adding Falc to the team did not add any approvals. Strange, given this was the third proposal, we should have gotten more approvals naturally, even without any spies on. Then again, this was a non-standard proposal. And if Falc and Rovsea are both spymates, that could explain that.(Then again, why would Rovsea skip to him then? Unless he was being a smarty and thought proposing a two-spy team would make him look good) And if they're not, people might be worried about looking suspicious for approving a non-standard team that got sabotaged.



I feel like I'm multi-quoting all Rovsea's posts for being odd now. This is why you need to be serious as a resistance member - acting silly and careless just adds confusion and makes you hard to read.



Is it? Or do you just like that team? I mean, you're not on it. The only difference from the previous ones is madchemist is on(And Dexander too, they might still all 3 be spies, but that's not something we'll consider for now)



Christ, is he always that annoying?



"People who have nothing to hide don't usually feel the need to say it" ~ Michonne.



That was quite the strange proposal...





Hm... I think I'm going to stop quoting all of these and just accept that Rovsea is either a spy or a very bad resistance member.



Rejecting your own team. Because there's another spy on it? No, most likely not, I think it's pretty obvious if they were both spies that Madchemist would have just sabotaged. I can see Resistance!Madchemist making a hasty proposal and regretting it. I... don't really see why a spy madchemist would do it. Unless it was specifically for that purpose, but that's always there.



Yeah, Madchemist already pointed this out, the comment about aedan was odd, and would find a perfect rhyme in both of them being spies. It almost feels a bit *too* perfect, like a spy dexander would realize it's a bad idea, but... nah. The obvious explanation is they're both spies. I stick by the obvious explanations.



This strikes me as a conversation two high-caliber spymates may have after having gotten a bad team in.

"I approved a mission that got my spymate cards and got us a sabotage. How to not make others blame it on me? I know, let's blame it on others!"
"No, but I'll make it look like I'm putting some suspicion on you so no one knows we're mates"



Madchemist's team was only approved by Falc. Why did I quote this post again?



I'm not sure how, but this sounds like a newbie spy. Call it a gut feeling. It's a bit like how Alxeu used to play here or how Dutchguy used to be in Werewolf.



Yeah, that proposal... Then again, Madchemist called him out on it.



Falc makes a strange, unworkable proposal based on a feeling that Rovsea and I might be spymates and...



Rovsea approves it. Huh. The only explanation I can see is if he was a spy and had a spymate on, which caused him to approve without thinking further. A resistance member would have more thinking to do about his vote and would realize what's what.



This gives me the opposite gut feeling of the last post. Then again, I can see spy!Dexander saying this.



You don't say? We had pointed this out already, several times.



Frankly, this felt like a spy's attempt at gaining credit after seeing that even though a team was good for him, it was gonna get rejected. Hm...



Alxeu still being strange.



Falc's strange proposal got rejected by everyone but him.



This would be perfect for a spy!Aedan. "I trust Madchemist now(even though I didn't before) so I can have only one spy on this team, and then blame him for its failure later!"



Rejected and chose to see if he liked the way the votes looked.



Okay... Goodie points for both



Aedan, why were you using it on Madchemist who'd already said he'd sabotaged if a spy even if somebody used ITS on him and not tried to maybe intimidate Alxeu with it?



And baddie points for the MC-Falc pair again by Madchemist objecting ever so slightly to a team with both of them on



I think you knew I wasn't gonna do that



Why did i quote this?



Rovsea always approving all teams.



Glad I'm not the only one that noticed.



Wouldn't a spy!Falc approve?



Well, at least *this time* he used it on me



At least this post looks normal



This reminds me of this

1YT7jmr.png




Another post that I don't know why I quoted. Both spy!Aedan and resistance!Aedan would say these things.



I'm still weary of this post. I think the first thing resistance!Madchemist would have wanted would have been for us to check him



I don't like this post. Once again, Falc seems to just be throwing accusations around more for the sake of appearing helpful than actually catching spies.



As aedan points out, while I've found plenty of reasons they're both suspicious, that was a really lackluster post.





Well, this was exhausting. What did we learn?

-Both groups have things incriminating them, sadly. Anyone cares to count who's got more?
-Both also seem to have things apparently clearing them. Though this time, MC and Falc pretty obviously more so.
-If I'm to judge people instead of groups, I'd say I trust madchemist to some extent, but Falc not so much. Meanwhile I'm neutral to aedan and Dex gives me a gut feeling of newbite baddie, but so did many people who actually weren't.
-Meanwhile, alxeu is pretty clear(he's his usual, strange self, but he's too in the middle of the action without anyone caring much)
-And Rovsea is almost certainly a spy, or would do better to take things more seriously or stop playing. That he started out not caring much, I understand, but that he continued that way after we were 1 down and 2 down? You just don't do that. Unless you're a spy feeling closer and closer to victory.

---

Thanks for the explanations on voting in PM.

Voting in PM.

(Once I decide, I have to go over this a bit more first - Also, I'd really appreciate it if others could pitch in too. This wasn't me building a case, it was me trying to make sense of everything, and the more people help, the more we can spot threads and reach the right conclusion)

Edit: *End music*

/Edit
[/QUOTE]

Ahh good times.

Reject
 
ANALYSIS
This is from my perspective, wherein I know that I am Resistance; for everyone else, this analysis would be relevant only in the either/if equation of me being Resistance and Falc being Spy, which is a leap of faith for everyone else.

1. Jacksonian Missionary is definitely Resistance because I scanned him as such.
2. Falc is definitely Spy because of the failed second mission (I know Jacksonian Missionary & I are Resistance, which leaves either Audren or Falc who sabotaged the mission; but if it was Audren, then Falc is a Spy for lying about his scan result).
3. At least one of deathbywombat and Panzer Commader is a Spy because of the failed third mission (I know Jacksonian Missionary is Resistance and I know Audren did not sabotage because I KACEOY'd him)
4. At least one of Daffius and Audren is a Spy because of the Open Up card.

Therefore, the Spy team is:
1. Falc
2. deathbywombat/Panzer Commader
3. Daffius/Audren
4. ???

For that fourth slot, there are a number of possible candidates (including any of the names I already mentioned in #2 and #3). Based on that, the card distribution, proposals, and voting behavior comes into a sharper focus:

1. Audren gave Take Responsibility to Panzer Commader, increasing the likelihood that they are Spymates.
2. Audren gave Overheard Conversation to Falc, increasing the likelihood that Audren is a Spy.
3. Audren gave Overheard Conversation to me, decreasing the likelihood that he is a Spy.
4. Falc used Overheard Conversation on Audren instead of Daffius, increasing the likelihood that Audren is a Spy and decreasing the likelihood that Daffius is a Spy.
5. Audren proposed himself, Falc, and Jacksonian Missionary for the first team, which passed despite having at least one Spy on it. Only reject votes were aedan777, deathbywombat, and Daffius, decreasing the likelihood that these three are Spies.
6. Falc gave No Confidence card to Audren, increasing the likelihood that Audren is a Spy.
7. Falc's M2 proposal kept the M1 team and added Daffius, decreasing the likelihood that Daffius is a Spy (since Falc intended to sabotage M2 and pin the blame on the new addition to the team, which ended up being me).
8. Everyone who was not on Falc's proposed team rejected it, except AvatorOfKhaine, increasing the likelihood that he is the fourth Spy on the team.
9. Daffius's M2 proposal kept the M1 team and added me; everyone approved it except aedan777 and deathbywombat, decreasing the likelihood that they are Spies.
10. Ironhide G1 gave the powerful No Confidence card to Falc, and the debilitating Opinion Maker cards to me and Panzer Commader. This increases the likelihood that Ironhide G1 is the fourth spy, and decreases the likelihood that Panzer Commader is a Spy.
11. Ironhide G1's M3 proposal (Falc, Audren, deathbywombat, Ironhide G1) may very well be all four Spies on one team; it was rejected by all except Ironhide G1.
12. aedan777's M3 proposal (aedan777, Audren, Jacksonian Missionary, and deathbywombat) was rejected by everyone not on it, except Ironhide G1, increasing the likelihood of Ironhode G1 being the fourth Spy.
13. Panzer Commader took the No Confidence card from Falc and threatened to use it on deathbywombat's proposal; however, he later rescinded this threat after deathbywombat put Panzer Commader on the team. Not sure if this makes Panzer Commader less likely to be Spy for taking Falc's card, or more likely to be Spy for being so spineless about deathbywombat's proposal.
14. deathbywombat's proposed team (deathbywombat, Panzer Commader, Audren, and Jacksonian Missionary) was approved by all except Falc and aedan777. Daffius publicly rejected but secretly approved, increasing the likelihood that Daffius is a Spy. The mission was sabotaged by either deathbywombat or Panzer Commader.
15. Panzer Commader gives the Open Up card to Daffius, increasing the likelihood that both of them are Spies.
16. Daffius chooses to reveal his role to Audren, who pronounces Daffius to be a Spy. If Daffius was really a Spy, Audren would be an odd choice to reveal his role to (unless they are both Spies). Thus, this action increases the likelihood that Audren is a Spy, without decreasing the likelihood that Daffius is a Spy.
17. Panzer Commader gives the No Confidence card to Audren, increasing the likelihood that both are Spies. He also gives the In The Spotlight card to Daffius, which is irrelevant because (as Panzer Commader points out) it is nearly useless now.
18. Panzer Commader's proposed team (Panzer Commader, Audren, Jacksonian Missionary, Falc, and aedan777) increases the likelihood that Panzer Commader is a Spy; it was rejected by all except Panzer Commader.
19. AvatarOfKhaine's proposal (AvatarOfKhaine, Jacksonian Missionary, aedan777, deathbywombat, Ironhide G1) decreases the likelihood that AvatarOfKhaine is Spy, unless deathbywombat is also a Spy.

===============================================================

Remember also that there are two No Confidence cards floating around out there -- Audren (very likely Spy) and Panzer Commader (likely Spy). We have already rejected one team, so if we reject this team then the Spies can No Confidence my proposal and Jacksonian Missionary's proposal, leaving us with Audren's proposal.

Based on the behavior of all players, I believe Audren to be a very likely Spy, with Falc a known Spy and Panzer Commader a likely Spy. We cannot risk that they can No Confidence their way to victory; the possibility that AvatarOfKhaine and deathbywombat are Spymates is there, but much smaller. We must take a leap of faith.

Therefore, I APPROVE and urge all Resistance to do so as well.
 
To add, I would prefer Audren to be on this team instead of Avatar or Ironhide, if not for the sole reason that he would have nothing to gain from exposing a fellow spy in Daffius and him being confirmed by Falc (who I think is a spy but wanted goodie points by scanning a clean player)

Lets not forget you have 0 (zero) ability in reading me. Judging from the last big were you were the ONLY goodie to lynch me (the priest).
You are right in he has no reason to expose a fellow spy... so where does that lead you?
 
ANALYSIS
This is from my perspective, wherein I know that I am Resistance; for everyone else, this analysis would be relevant only in the either/if equation of me being Resistance and Falc being Spy, which is a leap of faith for everyone else.

Except me. Since I KNOW Audren is a spy (hence Falc also). Also I have to say, it was refreshing to read your post with someone finally making sense.

I still believe Ironhide is a spy and would prefer Aedan in there, but this is the best we can get.

APPROVE