The Wars of the Roses

[HistoryDude]

The Beauforts now have a child, although TBC is correct about the mortality rate.

I wonder how this will affect the succession... it certainly cements an alliance, at the very least.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Well, another player has joined the game...

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Mm. This may not end well.

Hard to say. We have quite a while before we may get there.

I did half wonder if this would be the much threatened departure from OTL, a girl would have been something of a twist, but it was not to be.

Lady Welles continues to give me very bad vibes even if the plain meaning of her words is tolerable. Though openly stating which of your children is the most precious is at the very least bad form, if not worse.

I considered it but decided that Henry Tudor as a character was too important to leave out. Whether he ends up in the same place here as he did IRL is still up in the air but even if he does, it won't be by the same fashion. That I can assure you.

If we were rolling the dice, far more likely that one or both of those children will be dead within 5 years. Esepcially as one has been pregnant and been sliced open, and the other had a breach birth. Not even going into the political risks of both of them remaining alive...

Henry was a very sickly baby historically and Margaret quite small even for her age. So yes, it would be quite something for them to survive. However, that's what makes them interesting (to me at least) that they defied the odds.

The Beauforts now have a child, although TBC is correct about the mortality rate.

I wonder how this will affect the succession... it certainly cements an alliance, at the very least.

It does indeed provide another potential claimant that may or may not try to use it in future.

Well, another player has joined the game...

Or rather three.


To all - As you can see I tried to wait two days between posts this chapter and I think I will keep at that rate for the foreseeable future. I'm just about done writing chapter 12 so I don't want to get too far ahead of what is posted and what is written. But I will try to mindful. Thank you as always for reading and giving comment!

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Hopefully he grows up, becomes king, and kills everyone. Yay!

 

[coz1]

Hopefully he grows up, becomes king, and kills everyone. Yay!

What if by that time there is no one else to kill?

 

[coz1]

Coventry, January 1457​

“I’m afraid that we do not understand, sir,” King Henry suggested as he looked out the window of his room in the priory, “You are telling me...that our good brother has now met...the Lord God Almighty?”

The Earl of Wiltshire offered a bow, “It has been some long time coming to your ears, Your Grace...ours as well...but that is what is told from Wales.”

Henry kept his gaze to the frozen gardens outside, “How?”

“A sickness...” Wiltshire suggested, “...a plague to Carmarthen.”

“We have not heard of this either,” the King turned to him, “Are many others suffering from the same?”

The Earl gave another bow, “No, Your Grace. Only the Earl of Richmond...that I may tell.”

“It is not disease, husband,” the Queen sat to the opposite side of the chamber, “It is your cousin.”

King Henry looked to her, “I do not think Richard to have been to Wales. He was to Sandal...or Ludlow...at last thought.”

“It is his men...his retainers, sir,” Margaret stood, “Every one working towards his end.”

The King ignored her as he looked again to the Earl, “Yet Edmund? He has gone to God? I cannot believe it.”

“I am sorry to say, Your Grace...” Wiltshire offered, “...and more still, he now does leave a small child and a young widow.”

Henry looked out the window with grief, “The poor girl. If we are devastated, she must be more so.”

Wiltshire stepped forward, “The Earl of Pembroke takes her in, Your Grace. She will be cared for, I am certain.”

“Jasper?” Henry questioned before giving nod, “Yes...that is good. Yet...poor Edmund.”

“Poor Edmund?!” Margaret moved to stand in front of her husband’s eye, “And what is she but a child?! You’ve just said so. If you truly cared for the girl, you would know why she is in pain!”

Henry held a harsh eye to her before turning to the Earl, “My wife the Queen is out of sorts, my Lord. We do apologize. We are both at grief and would need time to find good way to honor our brother.”

“You would honor him by punishing them that caused his death!” Margaret held firm.

The King held a calm eye, “My Lord of Wiltshire...you have returned to us as Treasurer and we do thank you for your service. And your word. Might you leave us for a time?”

“Of course, Your Grace,” Wiltshire bowed, “And once more, I am made ill by your own loss.”

Henry offered him a kind smile but once he departed, he turned to his wife, “Why must everything with you be a battle? Do I not have enough of those in my lifetime?”

“I count the one,” Margaret answered as she moved away, “And what a resounding success that was!”

“You hold too much,” Henry suggested, “Do you not know that I am in great pain at the now?”

Margaret spun on him with fury, “You will always be at pain! As long as you allow him to dictate his terms! Do you not see?! How many times must I say?!!”

“You may speak...and I will hear your words...” Henry stood slowly and moved to her, “...because you are my wife. God has joined us so. Yet I will wait...for a full telling. I am grieved...Edmund was such a promise. And his young bride...how awful must she feel? A terrible circumstance and I cannot imagine anyone pleased by it.”

The Queen softened as she held to his hand, “Henry...you are too kind. I know as much as you. How can you not see? Your own brother?!”

“I will wait for Jasper’s telling,” Henry answered as he pulled away, “He would know and most especially the grief that is felt. There were only we three, and them by half. I must trust in him.”

Margaret placed hands to her hips, “You trust too much, Henry! How often must York challenge you?! Your very own family as you care to say?! I am not the only one to distrust! Look you to Buckingham...the Earl to Northumberland...even York’s own son in law! At what point in your mind can you see that Richard of York does not care for you?!!”

“He is my family...” Henry turned to her with a sharp eye, “...and I have lost another in that line. Would you...could you be sympathetic?”

She stepped to him with urgency, “Not when he is out for you! Your son! Your place!!”

“I see no reason in your argument,” Henry placed his hand to a book upon his table, “This right here teaches to me forgiveness. I am learned by the gospel such that I am taught. Your choice of Chancellor...the Bishop of Winchester...he does so teach. So too that which you disliked...the very Archbishop of Canterbury. You would hold out for that which is not God’s message...the teachings of Christ the Savior...our salvation. I...will hold my tongue.”

“And you will be made the poorer by it...sir!” Margaret answered, “It is not God’s will...it is that of Richard of York. And you do not see it!”

Henry showed an uncharacteristic strength, “I may not have eyes, my Lady...but you do not have ears!”

“Who do you love more?” Margaret stepped away from him in question before turning back, “Your cousin or your very own wife and child?”

“God...Margaret...” Henry looked to her with wide eyes, “...that is who I love. You may place me back to Windsor...”

She pushed, “Controlled by yet another Neville...Baron of Fauconberg!”

“So be it!” he answered, “I may pray at any place and that is what has brought me to this one now. I am King and while I am so, I would make this country a Godly place...this realm...under the protection of that grace. I can do no other. You challenge me as much as my cousin...and you are both wrong!”

Margaret pressed, “Your own brother has been killed!”

“I know that not...” Henry replied readily, “...and he is with God. What more could one wish to require?”

She bent to a knee and held to his hand, “Could you not...just once...stake your claim?! You are King!!!”

“Yes...I am...” he answered her coldly, “...and I will tell you as I would anyone else...this is my choice.”

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Not really sure where Henry's at any more. But now fairly sure he really does need to be removed for the good of all, including himself.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Margaret is falling bit by bit into the wildest degree of paranoia. At this pace, she may do something very silly for her.

Good, good...

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Margaret is falling bit by bit into the wildest degree of paranoia. At this pace, she may do something very silly for her.

Good, good...

It's only good in that it might speed things up. I'm fine with her going mad, just not mad with power whilst she still has some.

 

[HistoryDude]

Margaret is acting like a paranoid fool.

Henry is too indecisive. He needs to make a decision...

 

[El Pip]

There is a certain 'Boy who cried wolf' about this scene. Margaret has been a deranged paranoid traitor for so long that even Henry has figured it out, so the one time she is actually close to the truth she is no longer believed.

Will she learn from this? Of course not. Particularly as I fear the King's brief flash of spine at the end is just that, another brief flash before he reverts to passivity and looking for an easy life.

“He is my family...” Henry turned to her with a sharp eye, “...and I have lost another in that line. Would you...could you be sympathetic?”

Come on Henry, even you must realise by now that she is utterly incapable of caring about anyone other than herself, so of course she cannot be sympathetic.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Not really sure where Henry's at any more. But now fairly sure he really does need to be removed for the good of all, including himself.

I'm fairly certain Henry doesn't know where he is most days.

Margaret is falling bit by bit into the wildest degree of paranoia. At this pace, she may do something very silly for her.

Good, good...

You might think so, but...she is wily.

It's only good in that it might speed things up. I'm fine with her going mad, just not mad with power whilst she still has some.

Oh, it's mad for power right now.

Margaret is acting like a paranoid fool.

Henry is too indecisive. He needs to make a decision...

Yes, it is the worst part of his "condition" right now. Not sick enough to require a Protector which of course would be York, but not well enough to truly rule (if he ever was.)

There is a certain 'Boy who cried wolf' about this scene. Margaret has been a deranged paranoid traitor for so long that even Henry has figured it out, so the one time she is actually close to the truth she is no longer believed.

Will she learn from this? Of course not. Particularly as I fear the King's brief flash of spine at the end is just that, another brief flash before he reverts to passivity and looking for an easy life.


Come on Henry, even you must realise by now that she is utterly incapable of caring about anyone other than herself, so of course she cannot be sympathetic.

That's a good way to look at it which I admit I did not think about as I wrote the scene. She has been saying much the same for some time so of course Henry is tired of it. He cannot see it or refuses to.


To all - Firstly look for the next scene tomorrow (I am hoping every three days is working for folks.) Second, I am only 2 scenes away from finishing chapter 12. It is turning out to be a good one, methinks. Be a bit for it to show but I am hoping it works.

Finally, allow me another plug for the 2022 AARland Year-end AwAARds. We've been stuck on 9 votes for a couple of weeks now and voting ends at the start of February (unless I am forced to extend again.) Usually we get at least over 20. Please do consider voting if you have not already. All of your writAARs will appreciate it.

And if that is not enough voting for you, @Nikolai has begun the 4th Quarter ACAs so again, please consider a vote. This time of year has a lot of voting, but what a great way to give back to this forum that gives us so much every day.

Most of all, thank you all for reading and giving comment. It makes my work here such a great joy!

 

[coz1]

Greenfield, March 1457​

“I am most grievously sorry, my Lord,” the Duke of Buckingham said as he invited his guests into the manor house, “Yet do you think it wise to travel the girl?”

Jasper Tudor gave bow as he gestured for young Margaret Beaufort and her tiny babe to come forth, “We are all at grief, sir. She most especially. The Lady would require a protection at the now and...we both...consider you a friend.”

“Tis true, my Lord,” Margaret showed a slim smile, “Jasper did share with me your letter to him and we are most grateful for your words.”

“How could I not?” Buckingham led them to his den, “Such a terrible thing. A man so young...in his prime. And now with a son to call his own. A travesty!”

“You are kind, sir,” Margaret sat and cradled the babe.

Jasper stood next to her, “And most discreet, my Lord.”

“There remain ears at every place, sir,” Buckingham poured them both a refreshment, “And London is too far from Pembrokeshire for such a progress. As I hold the house to here, it is yours for as long as you may wish to stay.”

“Nay, my Lord...” Jasper answered, “...we would not impose. We are soon back to Pembroke Castle but could not allow a moment such as this go to waste. There are many mysteries that surround these happenings and any ally at all would be of service.”

Buckingham sat and crossed a leg with certainty, “I must say that I hold no knowledge of anything more than you may have. As always, rumors abound. The King, for his part, is as stricken with grief as you.”

“My brother the King has sent his own words and they are of care,” Jasper took a seat next to the Duke, “Yet the court...may not be his. I am to see him soon, so I shall see for my own eyes...but powerful counselors as always surround him.”

“Powerful?” Buckingham questioned, “Or merely more of the same? I believe that we both know that as the court remains to the Midlands, it is the Queen who rules.”

Jasper leaned forward, “Do you object?”

“I am ever and always considerate of the Ladies to this court and realm,” the Duke eyed Margaret with a smile, “Her Grace the Queen was wounded as much as any other by the...by the poor happening of St. Albans...and I would try to find my feelings on that, to be sure.”

“Yet a name remains unsaid, sir,” Jasper suggested.

“If you would wish me to speak ill of York, my Lord...” Buckingham answered, “...I would not. After what has been done...I may not forgive...but neither would I make an enemy that one does not need.”

Jasper stood to the fire and warmed his hands as he answered, “I too once held the Duke in some high esteem. As did my brother. A smart word to say to the problems of the day. A man...as you say...that need not be an enemy. I held that he would see the King as his only priority and yet...these parts are seeing a time of troubles.”

“I would not argue with that,” Buckingham gave nod, “This Herbert and his are a scourge.”

“I was there...to his face...when he promised honesty to the Queen,” the Earl turned, “Yet while I have no proof, he did imprison my brother. I cannot see how he was not responsible for Edmund’s death.”

The Duke stood and shifted to look on the baby held to Margaret’s arms, “He is a tiny cherub, my Lady.”

“And is now fatherless, my Lord,” Margaret offered quickly.

Buckingham held his gaze to the babe, “You think this a proxy war, my Lord Jasper?”

“I believe this a matter of York keeping his hands clean, my Lord,” Jasper replied, “As his attempt to secure their strength to this region. We both, you and I, hold extensive lands to southeast Wales. It is no longer a matter of rebellion...”

“Is it not?” the Duke turned with question.

Jasper shook his head, “No, sir. You may not spend that much time to this place, but I have. There is little rejection of His Grace the King. Rather it appears a choosing of sides. I need not tell you for you have the wounds to prove it, but the poor old feeling has returned. If there is rebellion, it is York against the Queen.”

“Or her to him,” the Duke skewed an eye.

The Earl allowed a nod, “That is fair. She has never stated a kind thought towards the Duke of York. Yet she holds the King fair and he, York...holds his time to Ludlow.”

“Could you blame him?” Buckingham refilled his goblet and sat once more, “All of her actions, it would seem for this last year and more, have been to reduce the Lord of York. He is a man of exceeding ambition and, by and large, good governance. Has pacified the Scots to the north and has said no thing about the Queen to the negative. Not to my hearing. Yet she? She extends her authority in ways that do not sit well with the magnates. I’m told that she ordered a vast stock of arms to Kenilworth not terribly long ago. To what end?”

Jasper stepped forward, “Mayhap because she sees the same as we?”

“You are young, Lord Jasper...” Buckingham replied, “...and I respect your position as brother to the King. Yet as you suggest...I hold the wounds to prove what may happen. Your brother very nearly did not make it out alive when battle to St. Albans was had. York holds a high mind. I may not say that about those that surround him. This man Herbert...a perfect example. Rather than find heat, I believe we as Lords should show a cooling effect. An avoidance of conflict. Which I am assured the King, your brother, does wish.”

“That is a weakness, sir,” Margaret suggested as she rocked her child.

Buckingham looked to her with an affront, “I beg your pardon?!”

“I show no care for the Queen,” Margaret spoke up again, “She has her son and I have mine. It did not come easily and now mine is without a father. He...Jasper...is young, my Lord. I am younger still. But I see what is before me. I am at pains and this war...this battle...places mine own and this child at great risk. We did not come here for lecture or explanation, sir. We come here for safety.”

The Duke stood, “I am certain that your child would be fine, my Lady...”

“And she speaks some truth, sir...” Jasper answered, “...for we are all now and again at battle. At a war. You suggest proxy? Mayhap. But let there be no doubt that sides are taken. Be it the Queen, York, or any other...we must choose a side.”

“I choose the side of the King,” Buckingham exclaimed.

Jasper allowed a laugh, “While those around you here to this place find a Yorkist cause? I thought you a peaceful man, sir. So can you not see that we are once more to a familiar path?”

“You are wise, my Lord,” Margaret suggested with kindness, “A powerful Lord and a good man. We did not come here to disagree. Rather, we hoped to find a reasoned mind and that which might hold the peace. Yet I am forced to grow quickly...a son that I will protect with all of my efforts. I hoped...I still hope...that you would be a man of protection. For the King...for the realm.”

“And you hold extensive lands to this place as said,” Jasper followed, “Whether that be from York or any other, should they not also be protected?”

Buckingham stayed silent for a time before giving answer, “I know not how to protect all. I have tried. Yet you...the two of you...make a fine point. I find disappointment with all manner of things...but my days are not yet done. It is too poor that your husband, my Lady...fell prey to such if in truth it is so. Yet I have not nor will ever be any other than a calming influence.”

“Then I fear that you may be left aside,” Margaret suggested.

Jasper stepped forward, “She means that you cannot ignore what is before you.”

“I know what she means,” Buckingham made clear, “I will ever answer for what I do.”

“Then see that York challenges us here!” Jasper forced.

Buckingham showed a question, “Us? I see no us here. I held this meeting because I do care. Yet I shall not hold a side. I like not that my estates are challenged, but I will not...ever...create a trouble that need not be. I wish you both good health...as I wish the King and this kingdom...but I would not be part of the trouble. It is not my nature nor mine own need.”

“I am young...” Margaret spoke up again, “...and now married once...twice by some telling. I hold this child and he requires a father. I may be foolish as I am a woman so I do not think that my time is done well without a husband. This one requires a male influence and I, a caring hand.”

“I believe that you see one in front of you,” Buckingham suggested.

Jasper looked from Margaret with a caring eye to the Duke with a firm one, “She could not marry her husband’s brother, my Lord. The King and the church would not allow it.”

“Yet you find her precious, do you not?” Buckingham looked to them both.

“This Earl is the kindest man,” Margaret answered, “Yet I am not here to prove my thought for him.”

Buckingham questioned, “Then what is the proof that you desire?”

“An ally, my Lord...no matter what will be,” Jasper replied with a firm eye, “If you needs must find a connection, she is a willing participant. She would tell you...as she has. She requires a protection. You did not find trouble matching your first son with a Beaufort. You hold a second son...and she is in need.”

“Is this something that you desire?” the Duke questioned to Margaret.

She gave nod, “I would do what I must. I believe that my son’s life would depend upon it.”

“We are not at war!” Buckingham again looked to them both with incredulity, “Why do you fear so?”

Jasper stood tall, “Every action shows it. I can no longer stand in support for York. Her husband...my brother...proves it. See it or no...but we are left upon an edge. I do not hate the man, but I detest what has become. You are known as a peacemaker. I believe that time may be gone. Match your son to her or no. But we will find her protection and a future. I ask of you...do you wish to be part of that future?”

The Duke moved to him, “If I did not know better, sir, that sounds very much as a threat!”

“It is York that causes the threat, my Lord,” Jasper suggested, “This entire area is over run with men of his affinity as he grows a base of power. I may hold this Lady for only so long to Pembroke without alliances. And it is not only my interests to here that are disrupted, but I think so too yours.”

“I suppose that could not argue with that,” Buckingham gave nod.

Jasper looked to him with question, “And so?”

“And so...” the Duke looked to Margaret, “...I shall take what you say in advisement. I make no promise at the now. I wish no repeat of what happened prior...but tis true that the best way to avoid it would be all as one against anyone that would wish to break the peace.”

“Then our time to here is not in vain,” Jasper replied.

Margaret followed with no smile, “Yet time is short, my Lord. That has been my experience.”

The Duke of Buckingham looked to her with some amusement given her young age but gave a bow of his head, “I think you to be safe, my Lady. I may at the least promise that.”

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Buckingham, do yourself a favour and cut their three throats.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

It's coming. And I'm not sure who will 'win'. Probably no one, for quite some time.

And that's worrying.

 

[HistoryDude]

The war will erupt once more, and it's looking like it will be soon...

A younger Margaret is now also plotting. I wonder if she will eventually betray the Queen?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

The war will erupt once more, and it's looking like it will be soon...

A younger Margaret is now also plotting. I wonder if she will eventually betray the Queen?

Absolutely everyone on the queen's side is planning to betray her, now her only loyal footstool is dead.

 

[Historywhiz]

A younger Margaret is now also plotting. I wonder if she will eventually betray the Queen?

Well given that OTL she would become the biggest power broker in England for much of the next 50 years… yeah probably.

 

[Bullfilter]

Henry showed an uncharacteristic strength, “I may not have eyes, my Lady...but you do not have ears!”

Uncharacteristic - so alas it never lasts for long.

“Yes...I am...” he answered her coldly, “...and I will tell you as I would anyone else...this is my choice.”

If only his choice was to send her to a convent.

And with the latest background manoeuvring, it will only get nastier again, as even reasonable players start to take sides and sharpen swords.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Buckingham, do yourself a favour and cut their three throats.

I must say, this made me laugh!! That would be good advice.

It's coming. And I'm not sure who will 'win'. Probably no one, for quite some time.

And that's worrying.

Indeed, what is the definition of "winning" in this case? All potential foes are off the table?

The war will erupt once more, and it's looking like it will be soon...

A younger Margaret is now also plotting. I wonder if she will eventually betray the Queen?

She is young still so right now she is just trying to shore up her position. She knows her son is a valuable object.

Absolutely everyone on the queen's side is planning to betray her, now her only loyal footstool is dead.

I don't know about "everyone" but quite a few would with the right incentive.

Well given that OTL she would become the biggest power broker in England for much of the next 50 years… yeah probably.

I'm reading yet another book on Richard III right now and it's getting into much of that at the moment (Richard III: England's Black Legend by Desmond Seward.) The author takes a rather dim view of Richard so I imagine he will not delve too deeply into one of the more fascinating things I read at one time...that it may have been Margaret Beaufort who found way to see the Princes in the Tower killed to open up the way for her son. While I cannot say I entirely believe it, it is plausible. Yeah...between the two Margaret's, this one is far more shrewd than the French lady.

Uncharacteristic - so alas it never lasts for long.

If only his choice was to send her to a convent.

And with the latest background manoeuvring, it will only get nastier again, as even reasonable players start to take sides and sharpen swords.

Hah! Henry might like that idea if he could get it done. Alas, I doubt she would go quietly.


To all - Look for the next scene tomorrow afternoon. Moving right along and still finishing up the next chapter. Thanks to all for reading and giving comment. I would say more but a thunderstorm is currently beating down upon my house and the lights have flickered a few times. Want to finish fb-fb before the power goes out (fingers crossed it doesn't.)