The Wars of the Roses

[TheButterflyComposer]

Winning in this case probably means taking all your men and family, going to France or Ireland and conquering some territory, earning a ton of treasure and prestige whilst skipping all this political muck and civil war stuff until after its over. Then come back when invited by the winner.

The only problem is that England getting its problems sorted is BAD NEWS for the entire upper nobility, because one of the things the country needs is for most if not all of them to be wiped, and the remaining few completely defanged and neutered. Monopoly of violence and money making, taxes, law and order, and everything else rests instead with the Crown.

 

[Historywhiz]

I'm reading yet another book on Richard III right now and it's getting into much of that at the moment (Richard III: England's Black Legend by Desmond Seward.) The author takes a rather dim view of Richard so I imagine he will not delve too deeply into one of the more fascinating things I read at one time...that it may have been Margaret Beaufort who found way to see the Princes in the Tower killed to open up the way for her son. While I cannot say I entirely believe it, it is plausible. Yeah...between the two Margaret's, this one is far more shrewd than the French lady.

Ah Ricardians. I’d call them the maddest breed of English apologist, but right now I’m trying to read a book by an author who seems hellbent on making Harold Godwinson and his family look like the kindest, nicest, and most loyal people on earth.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Ah Ricardians. I’d call them the maddest breed of English apologist, but right now I’m trying to read a book by an author who seems hellbent on making Harold Godwinson and his family look like the kindest, nicest, and most loyal people on earth.

How the hell do they think he got the throne in the first place then?

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

I'm reading yet another book on Richard III right now and it's getting into much of that at the moment (Richard III: England's Black Legend by Desmond Seward.) The author takes a rather dim view of Richard so I imagine he will not delve too deeply into one of the more fascinating things I read at one time...that it may have been Margaret Beaufort who found way to see the Princes in the Tower killed to open up the way for her son. While I cannot say I entirely believe it, it is plausible. Yeah...between the two Margaret's, this one is far more shrewd than the French lady.

My theory goes like that:

Once that Dickon got a wonderful hangover, Maggie B. cross-dressed like him and went to the Tower to give some poisoned candies to the Princes and, well, you know...

Seriously speaking now.

I'm a Yorkist through and through, and I have a soft spot for good old Dickon and, at the same time, for the Princes in the Tower, and some kind of deep dislike towards the Wydeville clan and the Beauforts (and twice the size for Margaret).

 

[Historywhiz]

How the hell do they think he got the throne in the first place then?

Well admittedly that part’s fairly cut and dry - while Paradox insists that Eadgar Aelthing was 16 in 1066, he was probably only 13-14, and in any case the Witan didn’t feel that he’d be capable of effectively defending the country from the 2-3 simultaneous invasions expected (in addition to William and Harold Hardrada, it was expected that King Sveyn of Denmark might also press his claims). Harold Godwinson was a proven military commander, had the second largest estate in England after the crown, was connected by marriage to the next most powerful family (the Hwicce brothers), and there was precedent of setting aside a young child for an older person before in Alfred the Great being picked over his two nephews.
It’s really more the insistence that King Edward the Confessor and Godwin generally got on well, that his marriage to Emma was happy (which… WTF?), that while Godwin had a weakness for defending Skulki and Tostig’s wicked ways, Harold was bitterly disgusted by his brothers and so on that just seems to fly in the face of accepted history for the most part.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Winning in this case probably means taking all your men and family, going to France or Ireland and conquering some territory, earning a ton of treasure and prestige whilst skipping all this political muck and civil war stuff until after its over. Then come back when invited by the winner.

The only problem is that England getting its problems sorted is BAD NEWS for the entire upper nobility, because one of the things the country needs is for most if not all of them to be wiped, and the remaining few completely defanged and neutered. Monopoly of violence and money making, taxes, law and order, and everything else rests instead with the Crown.

Right. Until and unless the winner can rid the kingdom of all of these powerful Lords, there will always be the game played.

Ah Ricardians. I’d call them the maddest breed of English apologist, but right now I’m trying to read a book by an author who seems hellbent on making Harold Godwinson and his family look like the kindest, nicest, and most loyal people on earth.

Part of the frustration is that the author is basically taking everything Thomas More said/wrote as fact and dismissing any other scholarship on the matter. Plus, there has been even more since the book was written so it all seems old hat by now. I cannot say I've learned anything new by reading it.

How the hell do they think he got the throne in the first place then?

See below.

My theory goes like that:

Once that Dickon got a wonderful hangover, Maggie B. cross-dressed like him and went to the Tower to give some poisoned candies to the Princes and, well, you know...

Seriously speaking now.

I'm a Yorkist through and through, and I have a soft spot for good old Dickon and, at the same time, for the Princes in the Tower, and some kind of deep dislike towards the Wydeville clan and the Beauforts (and twice the size for Margaret).

She had all of the motive but I'm not entirely sure the means though she did start writing back and forth with the then Duke of Buckingham Henry Stafford (who was her nephew.)

Well admittedly that part’s fairly cut and dry - while Paradox insists that Eadgar Aelthing was 16 in 1066, he was probably only 13-14, and in any case the Witan didn’t feel that he’d be capable of effectively defending the country from the 2-3 simultaneous invasions expected (in addition to William and Harold Hardrada, it was expected that King Sveyn of Denmark might also press his claims). Harold Godwinson was a proven military commander, had the second largest estate in England after the crown, was connected by marriage to the next most powerful family (the Hwicce brothers), and there was precedent of setting aside a young child for an older person before in Alfred the Great being picked over his two nephews.
It’s really more the insistence that King Edward the Confessor and Godwin generally got on well, that his marriage to Emma was happy (which… WTF?), that while Godwin had a weakness for defending Skulki and Tostig’s wicked ways, Harold was bitterly disgusted by his brothers and so on that just seems to fly in the face of accepted history for the most part.

Admittedly, when I did my Eadgar AAR, I did not end up doing too much research on Harold because he just wasn't around too terribly long. What little I know of Harold was that he seemed pretty good at sucking up. Whether to Edward, or when he was captive (or vacationing) with William in Normandy. The book you are reading seems like it wants to glory in pre Conquest England. Fun note, in my work Skuli became quite the good guy and character as I recall. I can't believe it's been five years!

 

[coz1]

Ludlow Castle, April 1457​

Leighson beat the rushes as Henry and Edward followed after with bow at the ready. A pheasant tried to get out but was felled by an expert shot by the young Duke of Somerset. Edward smiled, “Well done you!”

As the dogs went after to gather the bird, Henry looked to the York brothers and grinned, “Just because I spent most of my youth to London does not mean that I did not learn to shoot.”

“A well trained eye indeed,” Edmund replied.

Edward jested, “He would know. Does little else but practice with Master Leighson here.”

“My Lords...” Leighson answered, “...you are all exceptional in your way.”

Edmund frowned, “I’m a better shot that you, Ned. Too much time spent away from Ludlow.”

“Ed would always be jealous,” Edward spoke to Henry.

The young Beaufort man smiled to them both, “It is pleasant out here, I admit. And I’m thankful to have been invited.”

“Of course...get you out of the city,” Edward suggested.

Edmund followed, “I think the fresh air to do you good, sir. We’re brothers. Would always bicker. Yet you bring new enjoyment that may keep us from battling.”

“I must also admit...” Henry allowed, “...I did not think to enjoy myself so much. You both have been boon companions and with my mother...”

“She remains to pain?” Edward asked.

Henry gave nod as they walked forward, “One may never forget, but it has been nearly two years and she...would hold too close.”

“It is never easy to lose a spouse...nor a parent, sir,” Edmund suggested.

Edward shot him an eye before slapping Henry to the backside, “Yet I told to you that the hunting to here is good. We shall feast on pheasant tonight!”

“If I have anything to say about it,” the young Duke spied another and notched his bow.

Edmund took his own shot and felled the bird causing Henry to jest, “I thought I held competition with my own brothers, but they are no match for the two of you.”

“Everything is a contest in this family, sir,” Edmund grinned.

“I’ll get my own before the day is over,” Edward suggested.

Edmund laughed, “You’d better move fast, Ned. The sky grows dark.”

“Indeed true, my Lords,” Leighson suggested, “I think a rain to fall soon. The pheasant will nestle down and we are a ways from the castle.”

“The feeling out here is far better, Master Leighson,” Edward answered, “Especially with papa’s mood.”

Henry followed, “And your mother’s mood towards me, sirs.”

“Mama is very proud,” Edward consoled, “And would not be able to understand your sure concerns.”

“And young Georgie is acting up,” Edmund suggested, “She is at her wits end with him at the now.”

Leighson showed a grin, “No matter, my Lords. I would not like to be the latest to your Lady mother’s list. Let’s return and find a warm fire.”

The three young Lords relented and upon entering the keep, heard the Duke of York within the hall, “...and now I am to be back to Ireland!!”

“Did you think Herbert to be a fine actor?” they heard Duchess Cecily question, “For he was not! Did not serve your purpose!”

“I kept faith with him because your nephew vouched for him!”

They heard the Duchess laugh, “You seem to forget that he is also yours...sir!”

“Father?” Edward entered the hall with question.

As the others followed, Richard of York looked to them still with anger, “Little ears...everywhere! Do you spy on your own papa?!”

“No, papa...” Edmund suggested, “...we’ve just returned from a hunt and heard the commotion.”

Cecily eyed the Beaufort Duke with suspicion before turning to her children, “Then clean yourselves, sirs. We eat on the hour.”

Richard tempered his fury and looked to them all, “Was it profitable?”

“It was, papa,” Edmund suggested, “Our Lord Duke here has gathered aplenty.”

Edward followed, “A right good shot.”

“How nice for him,” Cecily coldly replied with a hand pointing to their rooms, “Now find your bath.”

They all dutifully gave nod and then she turned back to her husband, “Could you please explain to me again why we host this child...this young man?!”

“The King requests it,” Richard answered her as he moved to the fire.

Cecily was not satisfied, “So we should attend to the son of the man you killed all because of the whims of a King?”

“First of all...” Richard turned with irritation, “...I did not kill him. That be Warwick. To the second, he is not A king. He is THE King.”

“Work it out in your mind, sir...however you might,” Cecily answered him, “Yet what I see is plain. I did tell you to take a care with half measures. And yet here we are. You fume that you are to be returned to Ireland...that is still your charge...yet all of your actions at the now remain to naught.”

Richard felt his anger again, “There is little I may do to Westminster when the court is remained to Coventry or elsewhere.”

“Because she has made it so!” Cecily admonished, “Do you tell me that a mere girl has outsmarted you, my Lord? Naught but twenty and seven when you are a man grown to the age of forty and six? A tested leader in battle and yet a woman has pincered you?!”

“I cannot control what other men believe!” Richard argued, “At the least with the others, I might prove my own superiority but I cannot compete with her feminine wiles...their regard for her figure.”

Cecily peered with narrowed eyes, “I see not how you are superior if you worry about a woman’s figure. And that is not it, sir! Believe me for I know...a woman scorned is an angry beast. She holds no other idea but to see you put low. Has worked to no other effort over these past two years but for that very thing. While I was pleased to have you back to Ludlow and here with me, I think our son does better to cultivate finer relations! And I do not even care for the Beaufort boy!”

“This is a matter to Wales...” Richard attempted to argue but his wife would not have it.

“And you are back to Ireland, so what care should you have?! Once again away. Away from me and away from the King! Her only and entire purpose!”

Richard stood with fists to his side, “Wife, I believe that you are cruel to me!”

“Is that so?” Cecily stepped to him with a fierce eye, “Could I be more cruel than this Queen is to this King? Pulls him by the balls every where that he goes and rules in his stead. And you have allowed it!”

“She has cultivated powerful allies...” Richard tried to explain.

Cecily gave nod, “And I believe that you think too highly of yourself after the victory at St. Albans. A fine victory but for no lasting thing. Here we are...two years in the after...and you are no better off than you were when it was begun. I speak not to you of weakness, sir...my husband is not weak...but you have let your eye fall away from that which is to be prized.”

“I shall not hear this in my own house,” Richard shifted to leave but Cecily grabbed him by the arm.

“You will hear everything I say to you, husband! Like it or no! You’ve let it get away and I know not how. You are better than that! Like a snake, this...girl...has slithered up the sheets and now thinks to strike. Do you think to let her and blindly allow it to happen?!”

Richard turned to her, “I am not blind!”

“Then why do you not see?!” she questioned strongly, “Every step you take will be confused by whatever she says they are. London hates her...so what does she do? Move court away and the King with her. You were better off when you banished her, but your kinship with the King...you did try to honor. At some point...husband! You must know that he is weak. He never should have been brought back and you should have known better!”

“His Grace does a service,” Richard suggested softly, “Has pardoned Herbert after the judgment and I believe does so for his favor of me.”

Cecily stepped to him and stood as tall as she might to meet with her husband’s face, “She wanted you hanged as well, husband. Put him to the Tower and wanted you there as well if she could have got her hands upon you. She would put it all on you and will continue to do so for as long as she lives. I’ll give Henry some credit...as it was his own brother...but he does not grant lenience due to his faith. He does so because she wishes an ally...and one that is no longer yours.”

“I thought you said to me that he was unreliable...this Herbert,” the Duke suggested.

She held him close, “I said that he served you not well and we should be careful the advice we take from...our...nephew. It is our own family that we support and defend. I hold faith with my brothers...even Warwick. Yet I may only care truly about us.”

“I hold a fine line,” Richard suggested as he caressed her hair.

Cecily replied immediately, “Always.”

“And I am returned to Dublin.”

“I hope not for long?” she looked up with loving eyes.

Richard held her face, “There is no man better equipped than I when such as you would follow him, my Lady.”

She kissed him and replied, “Then make your mark, sir. That is all that I have ever wished for you.”

 

[HistoryDude]

York has his children bonding with each other and potential allies. That should ensure that the Yorkist cause will survive past his death at least.

Cecily despises York's indecisiveness. Is she saying that he should take the throne?

A woman scorned... hmm. I wonder if Margaret will be stupid enough to take multiple lovers now that Somerset is dead? That could cause a lot of friction in any alliance that she builds around herself...

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

York has his children bonding with each other and potential allies. That should ensure that the Yorkist cause will survive past his death at least.

Cecily despises York's indecisiveness. Is she saying that he should take the throne?

A woman scorned... hmm. I wonder if Margaret will be stupid enough to take multiple lovers now that Somerset is dead? That could cause a lot of friction in any alliance that she builds around herself...

I'm not sure York is doing it, but indeed Edward of York and Henry Beaufort are growing closer. Remember, the King wished it.

As to Cecily...I'll leave it to the readers to determine. Maybe.

Margaret of Anjou? Pretty sure the readers will have their say.


To all - I've just finished chapter 12! Lots more to come.

I appreciate all of you readers and those giving comment, to be sure. Yet what I'd most like to see right now is those of you that have not yet voted for the 2022 Year end AwAARds. Vote, vote, vote! Doesn't need to be this one, but please do give nod to those works you have loved over this past year! We are stuck at 9 votes and need a lot more. Please add your voice!

 

[El Pip]

Yeah...between the two Margaret's, this one is far more shrewd than the French lady.

Almost damning with faint praise.

I hesitate to say this, but I do think everyone would be better off if the three main women in this were quietly pushed down a deep well. French Margaret obviously, young Margaret because she seems set on starting a war of revenge and Cecily, sadly, because she is going full on Lady Macbeth at this point.

I don't mean to excuse the failings of the (surviving) men, Henry's have been well discussed and York is clearly far from blameless in all this, but there remains the sense that a deal could be done between the King and York if they weren't constantly having poison poured into their ears. Perhaps that is a bit too optimistic, there are some deep seated issues that need sorting and even if they were papered over by the efforts of the King and York the problems would just emerge in the next generation, if not sooner.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Almost damning with faint praise.

I hesitate to say this, but I do think everyone would be better off if the three main women in this were quietly pushed down a deep well. French Margaret obviously, young Margaret because she seems set on starting a war of revenge and Cecily, sadly, because she is going full on Lady Macbeth at this point.

I don't mean to excuse the failings of the (surviving) men, Henry's have been well discussed and York is clearly far from blameless in all this, but there remains the sense that a deal could be done between the King and York if they weren't constantly having poison poured into their ears. Perhaps that is a bit too optimistic, there are some deep seated issues that need sorting and even if they were papered over by the efforts of the King and York the problems would just emerge in the next generation, if not sooner.

My own solution is for all of them to die, so this is slightly less extreme.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Almost damning with faint praise.

I hesitate to say this, but I do think everyone would be better off if the three main women in this were quietly pushed down a deep well. French Margaret obviously, young Margaret because she seems set on starting a war of revenge and Cecily, sadly, because she is going full on Lady Macbeth at this point.

I don't mean to excuse the failings of the (surviving) men, Henry's have been well discussed and York is clearly far from blameless in all this, but there remains the sense that a deal could be done between the King and York if they weren't constantly having poison poured into their ears. Perhaps that is a bit too optimistic, there are some deep seated issues that need sorting and even if they were papered over by the efforts of the King and York the problems would just emerge in the next generation, if not sooner.

There's no doubt that Richard is my main character followed by Henry in his way, but without the women, we might not have a story. I do think you are right that without Margaret of Anjou, York and the King could probably do a deal, especially by this date. Yet we do have that French issue, as well as the others.

My own solution is for all of them to die, so this is slightly less extreme.

Hah! Then we REALLY wouldn't have a story.

 

[coz1]

London, August 1457​

“A rather rowdy den, is it not?” the Earl suggested as the two men drank within the tavern.

Sir Fulk gave quick nod, “London has changed, my Lord. Between the Siennese merchants and what comes from French piracy from Normandy, I should think you happier to Calais.”

Warwick grinned, “Was no easy task, I can assure you. Had to win the confidence from their merchants in the Staple. Yet Welles and Rivers...well, they did not hold as much coin. Eh?”

“Of course, my Lord,” Fulk laughed, “A thing in hand is far better than a promise.”

“Are they overly sore?” the Earl questioned.

Fulk looked around before training a fine eye, “They are not the ones to be sore, my Lord. Too poor them, mayhap, but much and more has changed. While I know that the people to Calais were happy to find you over young Somerset, we seem to find something of a lack over here.”

“My father does tell me,” Warwick sipped at his ale.

“Does he?” Fulk questioned, “Perhaps letters do not pass so quickly across the sea.”

Warwick held a firm eye, “From Dover to Calais is but a short travel, sir. Why do I pay you if not to tell me?”

“You will excuse me if I do not spell it out within mine own letters, my Lord,” Fulk explained, “I believe that I am good at what I do, but I am not the only one and the Queen has her own men these days.”

“Does she now?”

Fulk gave nod as he ordered two more drinks, “Quite, sir. Has extended her reach so much so that the Lord of York is returned to Ireland.”

“That I did hear,” Warwick leaned in, “He was not pleased by it.”

“I cannot imagine that he was,” Fulk answered as he handed off the cup, “While I have done my best to keep notion of his stake...and yours...I must also tell you that this Lady...her...she has put her man to a great action to Sandwich.”

Warwick fumed, “I’ve already heard about this. A French raid off Kent. They saw the bastards playing tennis in the smoking ruins of the town! When I see Sir Thomas Kyriell, I shall give him some coin. At least the bastards drowned on their journey home.”

“A price to pay, my Lord,” Sir Fulk gave nod, “Yet it has unnerved the peoples to this place and many others that may fall prey to these incursions.”

The Earl slammed his hand to the bar, “What does Exeter do?! He is named Lord High Admiral, is he not? Can he not protect the coast?”

“Oh...” Fulk grinned, “...the Queen blames it on him, to be sure. With all of his preference and connections, he does not escape unscathed.”

“Nor should he!” Warwick suggested.

Fulk did offer question, “Yet, my Lord...did you not know of this? From your place to Calais? Surely you must have found word.”

“There is much to do in the Pays de Calais,” Warwick answered, “I cannot be everywhere at once.”

His man suggested, “Well...you might wish to spend more time to here. These people are begging of it. The King and his bride have not been to here in some time and York is off to another shore. As you look around to this tavern...could you not tell me they would not find appreciation were you to offer your largess?”

“These are not the only pirates to be seen,” Warwick replied, “Be they French, Burgundian...even those from Hispania...my ships remain busy. Recall that I did handle those Italian vessels and their illegal license at Tilbury.”

“Illegal?” Fulk questioned, “Or a special Royal license, my Lord? Surely you must know that it did not come from the hand of the King.”

The Earl furrowed his brow, “She grows bold, this Queen.”

“And would that you had handled these French to Sandwich,” Fulk suggested, “Another great showing it might have been for you and yours.”

Warwick showed him a sure eye, “I purposely did not, sir. It serves a duel purpose. For the one, it keeps any notion of good feeling with the French low and less. They are weak but I have it told to me that this Queen has already sent her agents in an attempt to broker further peace and ask for military aid should it be needed from her uncle, the French King. This we cannot have. And of course the other would keep Lancastrian favor and action questioned.”

“Perhaps smart, my Lord,” Fulk gave nod, “For as you say...she does grow bold. I should pass on to you further notion of this. My men to the north give me word that she even attempts to meddle in matters of the church. This, you might think, would at least be the purview of this King. Yet she has notion of her own man to be named the new Bishop of Durham.”

The Earl grew angry, “That was to go to my brother George! He thinks it an excellent step towards gaining the Archbishopric of York and I understood that the King preferred him.”

“He mayhap,” Sir Fulk showed an understanding, “Yet the Queen continues to place her own to great positions and she would have her own chamberlain and personal chancellor Laurence Booth elevated to that office. He is brother to the current Archbishop of York and a great many letters have been intercepted showing her entreaties to the very Pope.”

“Damn the woman!” Warwick exclaimed and then look around the crowded tavern full of grumbling men, “There is a fervor to here.”

Fulk gave nod, “As I say, my Lord. There is no great love for the Queen here. Yet the court holds to Coventry and places elsewhere. In many ways, it brings government to a halt. She uses her favorites to end run the King and Council. Namely the coward Wiltshire and I’m told the Earl of Devon is becoming more trusted. Buckingham remains to the King’s ear, but all else tend to go to her instead of him when they find trouble or need.”

The Earl looked ahead for a time before turning back, “Devon is a disappointment. I think it time to revisit his loyalties. His worth to the south west is considerable. I’m certain that he remains ill after St. Albans and likely still mistrusts the Lord of York after their actions together in Kent, but...I think de Courtenay could still be had.”

“I shall keep you informed, my Lord,” Fulk agreed, “Yet what of here to London? They are ready to believe anything, I think. Might it not be time to resume the rumors of the Queen’s adventures?”

“If you may,” Warwick gave nod, “Yet what of Herbert? Does he confirm anything more?”

Fulk shook his head, “I think Sir William happy to hold his head at the now. At last telling, he professes full loyalty to the King and Queen for his pardon and I know not that she would trust him enough to gain full knowledge of anything.”

“Then that is where you shall work, sir,” The Earl suggested, “His is a required voice within the household so you should remind him where his true coin comes from. Sweeten the deal, if you must. As to the other...I’m afraid that any that might know the truth of it with the Prince are gone from us. There may be no way to prove it.”

“You need not prove it, my Lord,” Fulk grinned, “I think rumor enough to spark the flame. As I say, she is unloved.”

“Yet better to find proof of further adventure,” Warwick answered, “I cannot imagine that she remains to a cold bed and we should need eyes and ears for that purpose. Should she hold another false heir, we needs must know the true paternity and thus, who are her lovers?”

Sir Fulk replied quickly, “I will make certain to sound out her chambermaids, but she has been far more careful since the death of Somerset.”

“Hmm,” Warwick mused to himself before asking, “What of the son? The young Duke?”

“A bit of a mystery,” Fulk allowed, “This Henry Beaufort is tall, handsome...dashing even. One might think the perfect choice for her. Yet he holds his time often in the company of the Earl of March it is told. Wise or unwise, I believe you know this is partially at the request of the King. He was to Ludlow as recently as the spring, but still holds to court and finds favor.”

Warwick considered it before giving nod, “That is interesting. I shall have to speak with my young cousin to see what he knows.”

“All information assists, my Lord,” Fulk agreed.

“Yes it does,” Warwick looked around the tavern once more, “As I see it, there remains a path and with York to Ireland, we remain the tip of the spear. This Queen believes that she has created for herself a safe harbor. Let us make certain that she has no such thing!”

 

[El Pip]

I would say Warwick is scheming away, but it comes across more as just trying to counter the nefarious influence of Margaret who is already abusing the seal for her own ends.

The biggest concern is that things have somehow got so bad that the French are having any sort of success at sea, a state of affairs which is damning on Exeter and the Queen. Though in the case of the latter perhaps it is entirely deliberate, she is a massive traitor in all ways after all. Thus Exeter will probably stay in office, his incompetence is exactly what the Queen wants from a Navy.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

I would say Warwick is scheming away, but it comes across more as just trying to counter the nefarious influence of Margaret who is already abusing the seal for her own ends.

As any good Yorkist would say.

The biggest concern is that things have somehow got so bad that the French are having any sort of success at sea, a state of affairs which is damning on Exeter and the Queen. Though in the case of the latter perhaps it is entirely deliberate, she is a massive traitor in all ways after all. Thus Exeter will probably stay in office, his incompetence is exactly what the Queen wants from a Navy.

As regards France, that is true. But I tend to think of it as the Norman French which have largely gone unscathed in their most recent war. They know the channel well and would surely make us of that, especially if there is a lack of control from the French crown.

As to Exeter, I am hard pressed to figure out why in the world he was ever named Admiral. He was IRL as here, and all I can figure is it was merely reward for his loyalty and not siding with his father in law. The crown does not have much of a royal navy (despite what the screenshots might show) and I read nothing about Henry Holland that suggests he was much of a naval mind at the time. ::shrug::

That said, you may be right in that this is precisely what Margaret might desire. She does not seem to realize (or care) how angry it is making Londoners (and other English merchants) to see these others in their midst, as well as the unchecked piracy.


To all - Hmm. Was a bit disconcerted that there was just the one comment after three days (and thank you for that, @El Pip.) Yet people get busy. That I definitely understand. And we move along apace. The next scene arrives in just a moment. Thank you all for reading and giving comment!

 

[coz1]

Greenwich, December 1457​

“I do not understand, my Lord Earl!” Margaret looked to the paper before her, “What does happen to the King of France?!”

The Earl of Wiltshire attempted to explain, “My Lady Queen...the Siennese have won their war. The man to Champagne, Henri d’Albret maintains himself as a King. And Toulouse...some form of Republic. It is a shock! I may hardly understand it myself!”

“Mon cher oncle...” she looked again to the script and map, “...this should not be!”

“Yet it is so,” Wiltshire suggested, “Sad though it may be. However I may give to you some good news. His Holiness is satisfied with the outcome and thus thinks to offer agreement to your request. He would support you as far as the appointment to the Bishopric of Durham.”

Margaret ignored her chamberlain’s pleased eye and looked herself to the Earl with fierceness, “Is my uncle still King?!”

“Most assuredly, Your Grace!” Wiltshire suggested strongly, “Despite these actions by so many, including the Earl of Warwick at Calais and surely Lord Talbot near to Maine, the lands of Normandy in the north as well as Berry and Paris...areas to the south and west...Charles is still King of France. Le Roi, madame!”

“Mon Dieu!” she showed a sadness, “Qu'est-il devenu? Quelle horreur.”

The Earl offered word with kindness, “Yet I have it to letter by both he and your good father...they both...they would remain to support you. Is that not true, Master Booth?”

Booth answered readily, “Indeed true, Your Grace. Kind words sent and no lacking of faith to your cause.”

“Mon père...” Margaret let the paper fall from her hand as she looked to them with irritation, “...he is a beggar. I fear now that so too is the French King. Their promise is lacking. If I may not count upon their support...”

The Earl of Wiltshire assured her, “There is support all round, my Lady Queen! The Earl of Northumberland comes to call upon you on the morrow, and I am told he brings with him the young man of Clifford. There is no lack of those that would see this crown made whole and the bad actors...the poor ones...we see who they are.”

“You speak of a bold game, my Lord Earl...” Margaret offered him a stern eye, “...and I did not care to return to here at this time.”

“Yet you love this house!” he answered quickly.

Margaret stood and looked to the window, “I do love the grounds. Yet we do not feel safe here at the now. Too many that would question...cause affront. I was happier to the Midlands.”

“And so you shall return,” the Earl suggested.

She turned with anger, “Was forced back to here...sir! My name is slandered! And if so...so too this house! Mine own husband! And myself!!”

“It is the Lord of Warwick, madam...surely!” Wiltshire suggested, “And most definitely the Lord of York!”

Margaret stepped to him with a cool eye, “I rarely these days find agreement with my husband...but I shall say that the man of York remains to Ireland. And Warwick bides his time. No...sir! I care not for these others that would slander my name!”

“Loathe that I would be to disagree with you, my Lady Queen...” Wiltshire answered, “...their power reaches far. They need not be here to cause the effect desired. They mean to disregard you, and in so doing disregard the King.”

“Booth!” she turned to her chancellor, “What think you?”

Laurence Booth offered a bow, “I believe the Lord Earl correct, my Lady. I see no other way for you to find personal safety for yourself and the Prince...the King...but to hold your own force. That which you may trust.”

“I think it not a thing done to here,” Margaret returned to the window in thought, “Where I am from...mayhap. But these English...they hold to their retainers and contracts. I could not see raising a force for such action...not in my name.”

Wiltshire stepped forward, “Time and place may call for it, my Lady Queen. You need...only speak it.”

“You mention retainers, Your Grace,” Booth followed, “Why should you not have your own? Your coin has been plentiful and there are many that would follow you.”

“I am a woman,” she answered without turning to them, “I may not fight a battle myself.”

Booth followed, “Which is why you might wish them to do so for you. As Queen. As mother to the Prince and heir. As wife to the very King. They bend the knee to you, so many, as Queen. Anointed as you are and the sure protector of His Grace.”

“Nor should you need battle, Your Grace,” Wiltshire added, “So many Lords are behind you! Northumberland to the north...Buckingham smiles...Norfolk is gone to...wherever he has gone to. Yet not away! The King’s brother the Earl of Pembroke. Shrewsbury, surely. Devon most certainly...and even the church!”

Margaret turned to him with irritation, “You leave out many in your telling, sir. And as my husband suggests...he does not wish to go to battle.”

“It is not he that would be at true battle...my Lady,” Booth suggested softly.

“I know it well!” she offered an unkind look.

Wiltshire stepped in, “Which is why it may be wise to gain your own force. Devon’s men. Those of the north. We know well that York recruits to Wales...the southwest. Find your own, Your Grace. With all arrayed against them...they cannot stand.”

“And I may say also, Your Grace...” Booth added, “...as York does to Wales and the marches, should you not also seek to find favor with areas in which they feel safe? There are many Anglo-Irish subjects within Ireland. Why not encourage them to conquer that land and in so doing, cause much trouble for York in Dublin? As to Warwick in Calais, there are many that might bring him harm. Not least of all your uncle, but so too in Burgundy...mayhap even the man overlooked for the very position, the young Duke of Somerset. That Lord should have seen his at the time and may wish to hold it now. Encourage that thought.”

Margaret considered it for a moment and then spoke, “He is handsome, much like his father.”

“Indeed so, Your Grace,” Booth agreed.

The Queen then looked to the Earl of Wiltshire, “Very well, my Lord. Dispatch a commission of array to all shires empowering the sheriffs to demand that every village, township and hamlet, according to its population and wealth...to provide the King a number of able bodied men and archers at its own expense in order to defend the realm and the King against all such enemies...abroad...and at home. If some balk, then point them to piracy and the continued troubles to the north and here to London. Master Booth holds the privy seal and may mark it for you.”

“Very good, Your Grace,” Wiltshire smiled with a bow.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Uh huh...and the incredibly peaceful and passive king Henry 6th called for this massive army, did he? With France utterly destroyed and the situation at home peaceful?

Okay Margaret...

 

[Historywhiz]

I love how even Margaret is starting to see the obvious problems in her courtiers’ logic.

 

[El Pip]

Margaret more concerned with France than England, as one would expect. . It does make her courtiers even more despicable, because the evidence is right in front of their faces and yet they still support her despite her obvious indifference to the damage she is doing to the realm. Indeed Booth is actively encouraging it;

There are many Anglo-Irish subjects within Ireland. Why not encourage them to conquer that land and in so doing, cause much trouble for York in Dublin? As to Warwick in Calais, there are many that might bring him harm.

That is treason, to actively give encouragement and aid to enemies of the realm.

Margaret considered it for a moment and then spoke, “He is handsome, much like his father.”

Margaret proving that every part of her personality is repulsive to all that is good and right.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Uh huh...and the incredibly peaceful and passive king Henry 6th called for this massive army, did he? With France utterly destroyed and the situation at home peaceful?

Okay Margaret...

Don't try and talk her out of it either. She's on a roll.

I love how even Margaret is starting to see the obvious problems in her courtiers’ logic.

Indeed, who is smarter? Not that Somerset was better, but at least he provided some small check on her ambition. These? Not so much.

Margaret more concerned with France than England, as one would expect. . It does make her courtiers even more despicable, because the evidence is right in front of their faces and yet they still support her despite her obvious indifference to the damage she is doing to the realm. Indeed Booth is actively encouraging it;

That is treason, to actively give encouragement and aid to enemies of the realm.


Margaret proving that every part of her personality is repulsive to all that is good and right.

I'm not sure it is entirely treason as far as Ireland is concerned. The way I read it was encouraging the taking of more of it by the English but that would cause York to monitor that instead of events closer to home. That said, it would still be unsanctioned (which never stopped anyone - see the next chapter when it comes.)

And it is good to know that your love for Margaret remains strong and unyielding.


To all - I'm home for the day so I'm going to go ahead and post the next scene in a moment. It gets us closer to the end of the chapter and jumps ahead just a little bit. I try to explain it within the post, but I hope it works. In the writing, I am just about to the half point of Chapter 13 and the scenes are getting longer. I'm keen to get on with it.

While I am here, allow me to plug one more time both the 2022 Yearly AARland Year-end AwAARds and the Q4 2022 ACAs. Both end their voting in just a couple of weeks and are in need of more voices. I will repeat my general mantra - do not feel the need to vote for this work in your tabulation (though I would always appreciate the nod) but please do consider giving out some love to those that work so hard for your enjoyment. Every single writAAR will thank you, I assure you!

For my part, I thank you as always for reading and giving comment.