The Wars of the Roses

[TheButterflyComposer]

It's getting to the point where York can say, more to himself than anyone else, that he really did try hard to be a good vassal in this kingdom. History may paint it differently depending how it goes, but reality is, the current monarch and Queen need removing.

 

[Midnite Duke]

Since no one else will, I will try to defend the French Tart. I have no idea how anyone can not enjoy a warm tarte aux pommes with a scoop of French vanilla ice cream. As to Margaret of Anjou, whom I shall call Fancy (feel free to find the lyrics or watch Bobbie Gentry's version, if you go for popular imitations, you may view Reba McEntire); the question is not whether Fancy was a bad wife/queen, but it is why anyone would think that Fancy would be a decent choice for Henry VI. Poor Fancy is the daughter of Rene, who has plumage that would turn a peacock green with envy, but he would not have a pot to pee in or a morsel of bread for his wife and children except for the kindness of strangers. Rene takes the approach of poor aristocrats and markets Fancy to rich men. Rene has two selling points: his plumage (claims) and Fancy is a Hot French Hottie. Rene finds a potential fish, the Duke of Suffolk. Rene and William de la Pole view a movie marathon, Brigette Bardot, Catherine Deneuve, Sophie Marceau and Léa Seydoux. William like most men is hooked when faced with Hot Hot French Hotties. But Henry is not most men, he is almost asexual thus hotties like Fancy fail to capture and instead terrify him. Though French wives for nobles have been held in high regard since William the Bastard, the pendulum is swinging and a French wife instead of being a necessity has become a liability for a king. Henry has better claims than Rene. Fancy brings nothing in a marriage to Henry and is indeed a negative. Where should Rene market Fancy? How about to the Italian merchant houses where the claims and pedigree have value? Many rich men highly value having a young hottie like Fancy on their arm. What should Suffolk and co. look for? A PIOUS English woman, close family of a major magnate, maybe a widow slightly older than Henry would be a good start. I would like to read what others believe the butterfly effects of these marriage proposals rather than the Henry/Fancy travesty.

@coz1, are you going to try to convince me that King Edward's younger brother, Richard, is human much less a decent human?

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

The first half was a throwaway as I detest all four. But, I think Fancy may be appropriate. Try to find the Bobbie G version as she wrote the song. You are evil, I had to hunt up Kingmaker on Youtube.

Many people will tell you, Kingmaker is a legendary game about this period. Someday I hope to play it myself.

Well, the war against Margaret will probably begin soon.

Also, whoever had the idea to summon lords under false pretenses on Queen Margaret's behalf was stupid.

I'll give you a hint...it was Margaret herself.

Warwick does have a point about pirates flying national flags. How do you tell which are fake?

That is Warwick's explanation and he's sticking to it.

If York truly cared about good governance and nothing else, at this point, he’d grab Warwick by the ear and drag him back into the council chamber declaring that the Earl just attempted to recruit him for a plot to overthrow the king and replace him with York. Yes his wife and the whole of the Nevilles would probably never speak to him again, but he’d silence the queen’s accusations once and for all as even King Henry and all the stupid courtiers would now have proof beyond any doubt that York means what he says.

But of course, he’s not going to do that, because he agrees with Warwick subconsciously, even if he doesn’t realize it yet.

That's exactly right. It is too self serving to just hem and haw at Warwick than actually prove he means what he says to others. More to that, he runs the risk of alienating Warwick himself which is not entirely wise given that the Earl is likely the second richest man in England at the moment.

It's getting to the point where York can say, more to himself than anyone else, that he really did try hard to be a good vassal in this kingdom. History may paint it differently depending how it goes, but reality is, the current monarch and Queen need removing.

York does tend to convince himself of things that may or not be true, but has just enough truth to it that it makes it easy for him to do so.

Since no one else will, I will try to defend the French Tart. I have no idea how anyone can not enjoy a warm tarte aux pommes with a scoop of French vanilla ice cream. As to Margaret of Anjou, whom I shall call Fancy (feel free to find the lyrics or watch Bobbie Gentry's version, if you go for popular imitations, you may view Reba McEntire); the question is not whether Fancy was a bad wife/queen, but it is why anyone would think that Fancy would be a decent choice for Henry VI. Poor Fancy is the daughter of Rene, who has plumage that would turn a peacock green with envy, but he would not have a pot to pee in or a morsel of bread for his wife and children except for the kindness of strangers. Rene takes the approach of poor aristocrats and markets Fancy to rich men. Rene has two selling points: his plumage (claims) and Fancy is a Hot French Hottie. Rene finds a potential fish, the Duke of Suffolk. Rene and William de la Pole view a movie marathon, Brigette Bardot, Catherine Deneuve, Sophie Marceau and Léa Seydoux. William like most men is hooked when faced with Hot Hot French Hotties. But Henry is not most men, he is almost asexual thus hotties like Fancy fail to capture and instead terrify him. Though French wives for nobles have been held in high regard since William the Bastard, the pendulum is swinging and a French wife instead of being a necessity has become a liability for a king. Henry has better claims than Rene. Fancy brings nothing in a marriage to Henry and is indeed a negative. Where should Rene market Fancy? How about to the Italian merchant houses where the claims and pedigree have value? Many rich men highly value having a young hottie like Fancy on their arm. What should Suffolk and co. look for? A PIOUS English woman, close family of a major magnate, maybe a widow slightly older than Henry would be a good start. I would like to read what others believe the butterfly effects of these marriage proposals rather than the Henry/Fancy travesty.

As I look to the possible other wives Henry might have had, I wonder if the best candidate might not have been York's eldest daughter Anne (born in 1439.) She was about nine years younger than Margaret so the youth aspect would have troublesome, and they were closely related (but that never stopped anyone back then.) Problem there was, it would not have satisfied the Beauforts or Suffolk. They wanted to end the war in France and Margaret of Anjou was their best idea on how to do it. And then once you consider that by ending the war, many of those that fought in France came home and began serving the various magnates leading to private armies that are now available for war if desired/required within England.

@coz1, are you going to try to convince me that King Edward's younger brother, Richard, is human much less a decent human?

There is still plenty of time for Little Dickon. He's only six years old at this point in time of the narrative. Who knows how he may turn out?


To all - I must say, I had a lot of fun writing that last scene. A bit of a court room drama which I've never really attempted before. And the last part, the argument between York and Warwick came later after I had finished the Council portion. They both got away from me a little bit there and I just let them run with it.

I'd like to also take the time and give a huge thank you to all that voted for this work in the YaYas. I appreciate every part of the support all of you give to me and this AAR.

Look for the next section coming up on Saturday and I hope the three day posting schedule is working for all. It's certainly working for me right now as doing the YaYa reveals does take quite a lot of time away from writing. I'm still just about halfway through Chapter 14 and things have...well, I won't spoil it. We'll get there.

 

[Historywhiz]

As I look to the possible other wives Henry might have had, I wonder if the best candidate might not have been York's eldest daughter Anne (born in 1439.) She was about nine years younger than Margaret so the youth aspect would have troublesome, and they were closely related (but that never stopped anyone back then.) Problem there was, it would not have satisfied the Beauforts or Suffolk. They wanted to end the war in France and Margaret of Anjou was their best idea on how to do it. And then once you consider that by ending the war, many of those that fought in France came home and began serving the various magnates leading to private armies that are now available for war if desired/required within England.

Personally I think the best match for Henry personality wise would have been the Infanta Catherine of Portugal, though here too age would be an issue as she was born in 1436.

 

[Midnite Duke]

Post #624 is excellent writing, but I am glad to say that it made me uncomfortable. (I had not even got to TBC's #625 when I posted this.) The biggie was the age/experience difference between the two and not just Lady Margaret (quite a lady) being 13. Guardian/Ward type relationships that go sexual/romantic are always uncomfortable. In Brooke Shields movie terms, this is far closer to Pretty Baby (very creepy) than to Blue Lagoon (subject matter not so much, but voyeurism of 14yo Brooke is still bad). Shakespeare wrote Juliet Capulet as 13.

I eagerly await the streamed game of Kingmaker between @coz1, @TheButterflyComposer, @El Pip and @Bullfilter. With them in four different places, I wonder which will be the official card dealer! (2022 saw the venerable board game updated.)

A marriage between Henry VI and Anne would have been my ultimate. Regent Richard, with backing of his and the king's troops, would have told the other magnates to not let the barn door strike them. As to relationship between family, what noble families had three degrees of separation much less six. As to age, Henry was young for his years and being in proximity would allow him to be accustomed to Anne by the time that she is old enough to wed. I would love to hear Queen Anne tell Cecily "Mother, board a donkey and head north. I am Queen not you." Hopefully, Richard would be able to mentor Henry into an adequate king. Suffolk's peace deal/marriage contract valued Fancy as if she was a combination of Eleanor of Aquitaine, Cleopatra and Helen of Troy. (I do not dislike the French Tart, but she should never have allowed on an island north of Corsica.) A difference between Fancy and Cecily is that Fancy fears having to depend on the kindness of strangers while Cecily fears having to live on $8M instead of $9M.

Did the populace of England's former continental holdings view France as a liberator, an occupier the average person indifferent as to who was king?

Strange thing that probably only interests me. Coz's user id only has four digits, Pip's five, while Bull and TBC go six.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Did the populace of England's former continental holdings view France as a liberator, an occupier the average person indifferent as to who was king?

Well, Aquitaine and Normandy have been rightful English possessions for hundreds of years at this point. The people generally think of themselves as under a crown righteous rather than a nation of French speaking people (and this isn't even the case yet. Southern France and Normandy were quite culturally different to the French kingdom).

At the very least, the Norman's wouldn't be seeing the French as liberators. Probably not in the south either (and especially not at the moment, where the kingdom of France is pathetic and weak)

 

[Bullfilter]

Well, I’ve just had a mammoth catch up session to get back up to date again! Really enjoyed the most recent chapter:

Richard sighed with a heavy breath, “You must work within the system!”

“And how has that worked for you?”

This really sums up the entire story so far in one exchange!

 

[coz1]

More fb-fb:

Personally I think the best match for Henry personality wise would have been the Infanta Catherine of Portugal, though here too age would be an issue as she was born in 1436.

Hmm! That is an interesting one! Holds on to the John of Gaunt tradition (again easily swept aside by the Pope) and if her later years were indicative of character, they might have got on well. That said...the primary goal is an heir. Might be difficult with a monk and a nun.

Post #624 is excellent writing, but I am glad to say that it made me uncomfortable. (I had not even got to TBC's #625 when I posted this.) The biggie was the age/experience difference between the two and not just Lady Margaret (quite a lady) being 13. Guardian/Ward type relationships that go sexual/romantic are always uncomfortable. In Brooke Shields movie terms, this is far closer to Pretty Baby (very creepy) than to Blue Lagoon (subject matter not so much, but voyeurism of 14yo Brooke is still bad). Shakespeare wrote Juliet Capulet as 13.

Thank you. We went through all that at the time and I appreciate both my readers reaction to it as much as my willingness to write darker stuff.

I eagerly await the streamed game of Kingmaker between @coz1, @TheButterflyComposer, @El Pip and @Bullfilter. With them in four different places, I wonder which will be the official card dealer! (2022 saw the venerable board game updated.)

Now THAT would be fun!!!!

A marriage between Henry VI and Anne would have been my ultimate. Regent Richard, with backing of his and the king's troops, would have told the other magnates to not let the barn door strike them. As to relationship between family, what noble families had three degrees of separation much less six. As to age, Henry was young for his years and being in proximity would allow him to be accustomed to Anne by the time that she is old enough to wed. I would love to hear Queen Anne tell Cecily "Mother, board a donkey and head north. I am Queen not you." Hopefully, Richard would be able to mentor Henry into an adequate king. Suffolk's peace deal/marriage contract valued Fancy as if she was a combination of Eleanor of Aquitaine, Cleopatra and Helen of Troy. (I do not dislike the French Tart, but she should never have allowed on an island north of Corsica.) A difference between Fancy and Cecily is that Fancy fears having to depend on the kindness of strangers while Cecily fears having to live on $8M instead of $9M.

In our own look back at it, it might have been ideal. Yet it never would have happened. There were simply too many parties that would have fought against it.

Did the populace of England's former continental holdings view France as a liberator, an occupier the average person indifferent as to who was king?

TBC answers it well below. I would say in this timeline, Normandy (such as it is - Cherbourg and Maine for us at this date) was perfectly happy to have England as overlord again. As stated, they had been under English rule for many, many years (or at the least Anglo-Norman.) I am certain there was some cross-pollination over from France at that time, but more than anything (and different from what happened in England) the people were probably just happy for some peace.

Strange thing that probably only interests me. Coz's user id only has four digits, Pip's five, while Bull and TBC go six.

The user ID is based on when we joined. I guess that means I was one of the first 9,999 people that found this place. I don't even know my number but it was early.

Well, Aquitaine and Normandy have been rightful English possessions for hundreds of years at this point. The people generally think of themselves as under a crown righteous rather than a nation of French speaking people (and this isn't even the case yet. Southern France and Normandy were quite culturally different to the French kingdom).

At the very least, the Norman's wouldn't be seeing the French as liberators. Probably not in the south either (and especially not at the moment, where the kingdom of France is pathetic and weak)

Absolutely. Normandy is a bit split right now, but I am sure they still have many memories of life under the English crown. And with France being so weak? They may be begging for a return.

Well, I’ve just had a mammoth catch up session to get back up to date again! Really enjoyed the most recent chapter:

This really sums up the entire story so far in one exchange!

Doesn't it though?

As I suggested, their conversation got away from me a bit and some truths came out.

 

[Historywhiz]

Hmm! That is an interesting one! Holds on to the John of Gaunt tradition (again easily swept aside by the Pope) and if her later years were indicative of character, they might have got on well. That said...the primary goal is an heir. Might be difficult with a monk and a nun.

Well that’s the beauty of it - she was only sent to the convent after her planned marriage to the King of Navarra fell through - if Henry comes knocking instead for a bride, then her father King Edward (or Duarte) would probably drop the marriage with the duchy in all but name in favor of the large kingdom ruled by his cousin and having a long-standing alliance already.

 

[Midnite Duke]

On the quantity of Medieval spying, within a year of the Jamestown's Colony 1607 founding, there was a Spanish spy among the Jamestown settlers. Jamestown historians have found better documents in Spanish than English archives for some subjects. Information was given to me by a guide on a visit to Jamestown.

 

[coz1]

More fb-fb:

Well that’s the beauty of it - she was only sent to the convent after her planned marriage to the King of Navarra fell through - if Henry comes knocking instead for a bride, then her father King Edward (or Duarte) would probably drop the marriage with the duchy in all but name in favor of the large kingdom ruled by his cousin and having a long-standing alliance already.

Good points but sadly, I doubt it would have gotten past the Beauforts and Suffolk. The French match meant too much for them and their power (even if it would bite them in the rear soon enough.)

On the quantity of Medieval spying, within a year of the Jamestown's Colony 1607 founding, there was a Spanish spy among the Jamestown settlers. Jamestown historians have found better documents in Spanish than English archives for some subjects. Information was given to me by a guide on a visit to Jamestown.

Very interesting. The high times for English spies was the Elizabethan age but they have been around forever. And because they are spies, we know little of them on purpose so it is easy to make them anything we desire as characters. Very fun!


The next scene arrives in just a moment...

 

[coz1]

London, August 1458​

“Can it be true?!” Edward burst into Henry’s chamber with letter in hand, “This is from France, sir! The great Talbot is dead!”

Young Somerset roused from his bed to look with curiosity, “Since when did you find it proper to wake me in such fashion?”

“This is too much news, Harry!” Edward sat to his side, “While you sleep, this great lion has gone to his maker!”

Henry Beaufort slipped back to his pillow, “Our night was late so I think to need my slumber.”

“Wake your sleepy head!” Edward reached over to turn his friend, “This is monumental! Old Talbot...a turning of the age.”

“Good prospect for you then...” Henry held his hand to his face, “...he may no longer bar your intentions with his Lady Eleanor.”

Edward pressed to his friend’s stomach, “You would wake and hear me...and there is no precontract with madam Butler. I would not do that...though she is comely and did require some...promises.”

“You promise too much,” Henry finally sat up in the bed, “And rumor holds that your fathers had spoken of it in the past. A fair match and though she be widowed, still at an age.”

“My father would never consent to such unless it worked for him,” Edward answered, “And Talbot would not see it through. Though Nell is pretty.”

Henry rolled over again, “Then why are you here and not there?”

“She would indeed need a consoling shoulder,” Edward mused to himself before nudging his friend again, “Yet Harry...do you not see that things change?”

“What...exactly...has changed?” Henry rolled back to look on his friend, “You wake me at a prime moment when I was having a fine dream. And all for this? Marry the girl, as far as I am concerned. Do what you must!”

“Harry...” Edward showed a curious eye, “...if I did not know better, I might say that you were jealous.”

The Beaufort Duke did not respond as he stood from the bed in his nakedness and found a warming robe. Henry splashed some cold water to his face and then turned as he tightened his garment, “I know not why you are so excited. It is sad about Talbot, to be sure. And yet, you now have an in. She is supposedly betrothed to his second in command, Baron Leicester. Archibald is many things, I am told. Young like you...and also tenacious like the late Lord of Shrewsbury. Is this your worry? Your concern?”

“I do not hold a concern,” Edward answered as he kept his seat to the bed, “Yet there is...potential.”

Henry waved a hand as he washed his face again, “Then go and find it.”

“What is wrong with you?” the young Earl asked.

“I hold more to my concern,” he answered as he moved to open the window of the chamber, “I require fresh air and at this time, little of it appears to me. Your cousin...he goes unpunished. I cannot stand for it. So you might excuse me if I do not champion your cause at the now.”

“Harry...” Edward began to say but Henry stopped him.

“Ned...” the young Duke turned with purpose, “...I could not possibly care less about old Talbot. Good for you if you hold your prospect, yet it does me little good. Name Leicester to France. My thought is to Calais, which should be mine, and your cousin who killed my father. I am not inclined to be kind.”

Edward stood and put a hand to Henry’s shoulder, “Harry...how long will you hold to that?”

“For as long as I might!” Henry swatted the hand away and shifted to pour himself a drink, “You may not understand for your father still lives and supports your cousin...yet I shall never forget!”

“Come now...” Edward followed him and embraced his shoulders, “...as tight as I hold to you now...you hold to this.”

Henry turned with alacrity, “Unhand me, sir! You may not have it both at once! Invited as I am to your circle...as you are to mine...our journey is not the same.”

“And yet it is,” Edward stood closer and held a hand to his face, “All the troubles in the world, Harry...they would cease when you and I are together.”

“Don’t give me that!” Henry pushed away and returned to the window, “Your words may do well with the widow Butler, but they do not with me. Warwick is a scourge and I would do without him!”

Edward smiled, “Yet would you do without me?”

“You are charming, Ned...but do not press it!” Henry answered.

The young Earl shifted closer to hold Henry for a brief moment as he stated, “I am young, Harry. I know it. Much to learn. Yet I do not wish for these things to tear us apart. We have come too far...and you are my friend.”

Somerset bristled at the touch as he replied, “I love you, Ned. I truly do. The finest of companions. But I will not forget...cannot!”

“And I love you, Harry,” Edward turned him softly, “There is too much from before. Talbot’s death...it is the end of an era. We two are the future.”

Henry held a long gaze to his friend, “And I fear that only one of us may see it.”

“If you hold too tightly,” Edward embraced him with strength and a grin, “Otherwise, we may have much fun.”

“I think that may be all you care about, sir,” Henry pulled away, “Your youth and your position...what may you care? Seduce a widow who has so recently lost a father? Seduce some other because you may?”

Edward stood apart, “Harry! I care about you!”

“And I you, young sir...” Henry answered, “...yet we are not allowed. It goes against everything that has been made. God’s own law.”

“Do you mean...” Edward began to question.

Henry stopped him, “You are handsome, tall, strong and young. And your father lives. I hold only slightly to those attributes...”

“You are tall, Harry,” Edward grinned.

“And there you go again,” Henry followed, “You have what I do not. Charm, to be sure...but also a father that lives. You have charmed me, Ned. I cannot say that for your cousin and I hold duty.”

Edward stepped to him and held a hand to his face, “Did not the King request our bonding? Could you see that it is for good? I know that I hold a fondness. Do you? If you may not let go, at the least...respect our friendship. We two...we may be the cure.”

“I think that you should leave,” Henry answered him.

“And I think that you hear from parties that you should not,” Edward replied as he stepped back, “Be it Queen...Wiltshire...who may know? I know what we two hold...and this is not that. A calm morning is far better than that which they would give to you. Yes, I am charming. And I am charming for you. To you. Because I wish to be.”

Henry stepped forward, “So then charm your own father and let him know that his nephew...your cousin...is not proper. An evil man that does no good. Speak of that, young sir. And leave me be if you are not willing to witness.”

“You cannot mean that?!” Edward stood tall.

“I mean what I say, Ned. I’ll not be stopped to gain my satisfaction.”

Edward skewed a brow, “And that would include warring parties? Even if I must support mine own?”

“As I must,” Henry replied readily, “Our...friendship...is beside the point. Buckingham...Exeter...more...they all question the acts of your father. And to a man...they question Warwick. He killed my father. If you wish to charm, then charm your own father. For my part, I know what I must do.”

“You keep saying that I am charming,” Edward showed a slight smile, “Could we...at least?”

“Not today,” Henry was certain, “I am sad for Talbot’s death. I should think that we all are. That should not give excuse to play. We are at war, Ned. Do you not see it? You speak of charm...well that is your raising. I did not have that for myself. My father worked for it and now he is dead. And your cousin...mayhap even your father...they do not care for mine and ours. Only their own. I do love you, young sir...but I will also do my part!”

“I fear that you wound me, Harry,” Edward suggested.

Henry answered quickly, “I mean not to. It is not to you that I hold trouble. Far from it. But them? I will answer.”

“Then shall I leave?” Edward asked with a sad face.

“I wish that you would not...” Henry Beaufort replied with his own sorrow, “Yet...I think that you should.”

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

The great Talbot is dead!”

Oh dear...we had France in the bag and now it's going to slip through our fingers. That army is also now leaderless and looking for a commander or a cause...not good either way.

Warwick is a scourge and I would do without him!”

He has no real allies or family aside from his wealth and loyalty to York.

Even if the yorkists win, I suspect he will be the lamb that gets sacrificed for peace.

 

[HistoryDude]

Talbot is dead! This might make whoever gets the continental possessions a kingmaker - and they won't be inclined to support the Queen...

Am I the only one getting the vibes that Ned and Harry love each other and are in denial about it (justifiably, given that this is Medieval England, and homosexuality is a sin, but still)?

 

[Bullfilter]

Henry turned with alacrity, “Unhand me, sir! You may not have it both at once! Invited as I am to your circle...as you are to mine...our journey is not the same.”

“And yet it is,” Edward stood closer and held a hand to his face, “All the troubles in the world, Harry...they would cease when you and I are together.”

That vibe, already hinted at a few times, is getting stronger, from Edward anyway. Gaydar beeping!

And to a man...they question Warwick. He killed my father.

Is name is Henry Beaufort. Warwick killed his father and should prepare to die! I wonder if Warwick has six fingers? But Beaufort may need the Brute Squad to get at him.

Am I the only one getting the vibes that Ned and Harry love each other and are in denial about it (justifiably, given that this is Medieval England, and homosexuality is a sin, but still)?

Definitely not imagining it. It’s there, but Ned seems more interested …

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Somerset is too stubborn. Like good ol' York.

 

[Midnite Duke]

I am hoping against hope for the OTL outcome. Because of two persons, Margaret Beaufort deserves at least her fate as she seems to be the best person and Richard III hopefully, we will not receive any better fate.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Oh dear...we had France in the bag and now it's going to slip through our fingers. That army is also now leaderless and looking for a commander or a cause...not good either way.

It may not. Not in the way that France is so weak. But yes, we do need a new leader there in the event something comes up.

He has no real allies or family aside from his wealth and loyalty to York.

Even if the yorkists win, I suspect he will be the lamb that gets sacrificed for peace.

Yes, but that wealth can go a long way.

Talbot is dead! This might make whoever gets the continental possessions a kingmaker - and they won't be inclined to support the Queen...

Am I the only one getting the vibes that Ned and Harry love each other and are in denial about it (justifiably, given that this is Medieval England, and homosexuality is a sin, but still)?

You are not imaging it. As I was doing research, there was a rumor to that effect (though in later years) and I decided to include it. It's been kind of interesting to write and I hope I am writing it fairly. It is surely not meant to be prurient. In many ways, I want it to set up what will happen later with their relationship.

That vibe, already hinted at a few times, is getting stronger, from Edward anyway. Gaydar beeping!

Is name is Henry Beaufort. Warwick killed his father and should prepare to die! I wonder if Warwick has six fingers? But Beaufort may need the Brute Squad to get at him.

Definitely not imagining it. It’s there, but Ned seems more interested …

Love a Princess Bride reference!

On the other, it seemed fairly natural enough not unlike boarding school mates and the like. And Ned especially is a rather equal opportunity fellow, seems to me. Boys just wanna have fun.

Somerset is too stubborn. Like good ol' York.

The young man wants vengeance. Coin won't cover it.

I am hoping against hope for the OTL outcome. Because of two persons, Margaret Beaufort deserves at least her fate as she seems to be the best person and Richard III hopefully, we will not receive any better fate.

Hmmm...you may not get your wish. Or you might. Or...well, it'll take a while to get there anyway.


To all - So on the death of Talbot. That was an in-game action. Seems a shame I had him for longer than RL but could not use him (as he is a great leader in game.) I did hire a new Leader - the Leicester I mentioned in the post. So now we have a truly fictional one to work with.

On the other, I was waiting for someone to mention it. As @Bullfilter suggested, it has been hinted at quite a few times. I never want to over do it or make light of their situation. To me, it adds yet another level to their relationship. Perhaps bittersweet even but I don't want to spoil anything. It was a different angle to take but still fits within what we know of their characters. Like I said, I hope it works and in no way seems like a cheap subplot. It is certainly not meant as such.

Finally, I just want to thank again all of those that supported this work in the recent YaYas. There is so much great work done here, so to find a good showing is very gratifying. I never run these to win but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate being remembered. And hey...even Richard got a victory!

Next update comes tomorrow. Thanks for reading and giving comment, folks!

 

[Midnite Duke]

Finished Baynard's Castle. Does anyone care anything about England besides Talbot and Henry VI? Duke Ricky just wants to be acknowledged as the smartest and most powerful man in the realm (he probably is). Queenie C just wants to be recognized as the leading lady in the land with all the dough. She is terrified that Slick Rick will toss her aside for younger, prettier model. Fancy just wants the funds so that she does not have to depend on anyone else. Warwick and company, just want to make money and pull strings. A dream ending would be finding the bodies of Ricky and Fancy with the letters from Rick that he cannot live without her. Anne sends Cecily north to live with her memories of Richie, telling her that she needs to stay and mentor Prince Edward until she is the actual queen.

While I normally agree with @El Pip, I do not find Fancy treasonous as she has no feelings of loyalty to any country only to herself. But Ricky and company committed treason St. Albans. The keeping of the retinues by the magnates is almost treasonous. It comes down to a rule of law vs. meritocracy. Just because Richard would probably do the best job of being king does not mean that he should be king. The culling of the nobles in the WotR was probably necessary to making England/Britain a world power. With powerful magnates ruling their own fiefdoms, England would never have the central government power to become a colonial power.

 

[coz1]

Finished Baynard's Castle. Does anyone care anything about England besides Talbot and Henry VI? Duke Ricky just wants to be acknowledged as the smartest and most powerful man in the realm (he probably is). Queenie C just wants to be recognized as the leading lady in the land with all the dough. She is terrified that Slick Rick will toss her aside for younger, prettier model. Fancy just wants the funds so that she does not have to depend on anyone else. Warwick and company, just want to make money and pull strings. A dream ending would be finding the bodies of Ricky and Fancy with the letters from Rick that he cannot live without her. Anne sends Cecily north to live with her memories of Richie, telling her that she needs to stay and mentor Prince Edward until she is the actual queen.

While I normally agree with @El Pip, I do not find Fancy treasonous as she has no feelings of loyalty to any country only to herself. But Ricky and company committed treason St. Albans. The keeping of the retinues by the magnates is almost treasonous. It comes down to a rule of law vs. meritocracy. Just because Richard would probably do the best job of being king does not mean that he should be king. The culling of the nobles in the WotR was probably necessary to making England/Britain a world power. With powerful magnates ruling their own fiefdoms, England would never have the central government power to become a colonial power.

Once Margaret became Queen of England, it became arguably treasonous to choose herself over the kingdom. That said, I don't think I can disagree about Richard and certainly not Warwick. The Earl is certainly just as self serving as Margaret. To wit, see the next scene...