The Wars of the Roses

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Well, there's no coming back from that one. Richard is a traitor rallying Ireland to his rule.

This only ends with him on the throne or his head on London Bridge.

By this point I don't think it is spoiler to say that this is true.

“Faster than a speeding bullet“ He’s back!


She has a point. His compass swings wildly between two poles.

A moment of genuine self-awareness? Or devious manipulation? One can never quite tell with Margaret, though one expects the latter.

Again, true enough. She’s in pretty good form here.

Devious manipulation, to be sure. Yet as said, she is not entirely wrong in her points. My favorite part was when she admonished Somerset that she already had a husband, she didn't need another.

So I see! Glad the muse once again sits by your shoulder.

I've hit a part in the writing that I've been waiting for - always in the distance and now finally here. It's exciting.

Oh, for a second I thought that was a description of young Henry Somerset - or at least a part of him! “Ooh, matron!”


A pretty harsh one, but clear enough! Dies cast, Rubicons finally crossed, etc.

I think that you will find that a lot of these characters have rather hit against the end of their rope. Be it Margaret, Richard, Henry or anyone else. This "faffing about" as has been suggested is done. It is kill or be killed now.

York has a peculiar way to send his messages.

See below for more on this, but he wished a strong message (and this is exactly what happened IRL.)

Ireland has declared for York. There's no going back now. Either Margaret or York will emerge the victor - there's no middle ground.

Indeed, no middle ground. There are those that might wish to stay on the sidelines and/or pick and choose, but our major players have placed down their cards. It's win or go home.


To all - I was quite happy to get to this post above with Richard in Ireland because I'd been tinkering with it for awhile as I wrote it and considered a lot of the rest of this work. As suggested, the scene was entirely based on real life - this exactly happened. I added a few notes to it, but the poor messenger was relieved of his head. As a message in reply. It made me start thinking about how some of these actions taken during this time are similar to how the mafia acts in our more recent history. I don't mind saying that this "thought" started coming out in the writing. These Lords...they are mafia Dons, really. They may look different, speak differently, have different special customs, but in their actions they kill and extort as much as any mob boss.

I should also add that in the depiction of Richard above, I was thinking about LBJ and how persuasive he could be. That is not entirely York's strong suit, but he is going to need to learn how to "Win Friends and Influence People." Sadly for him, that book wasn't out yet.

 

[Midnite Duke]

If I was the Queen, I would send Richard my reply. He would be given his wife in several boxes with the children being next. I thought that Richard had received the 'broken spirit' trait but it seems more 'arbitrary'. Thank you for the chapter.

 

[El Pip]

Somerset is an idiot isn't he? We can try and sugar coat the matter, but all the evidence suggest he is thick as mince. He doesn't even have the excuse of "thinking with his little duke" because then he'd be chasing after Edward. Given Margaret can't go five minutes without threatening him, one of the few competent supporters she has left, it remains baffling why he stays loyal, unless he is just an idiot. I fear his mission to Calais will not develop to his advantage.

The English Civil War... overall I fear it was sadly necessary to demonstrate that Republicanism is evil, dull, grey, monotonous and generally a bit grim. It's legacy continues to this day as the few weird make-the-UK-a-republic campaigners all seem to be dull, boring, grey, etc..

Richard in Dublin was an interesting scene, I believe we saw him finally hit bottom and then start to bounce up again. His conversation with Chevir showed some of the backbone and steel he has on occasion lacked, certainly more resolve than he has shown since Ludford and Edmund should take the credit for that. Seems a bit harsh on Edmund to then make him watch the execution, but then it is a bloody business so better to find out if you have the stomach for it early than too late.

Richard is a traitor rallying Ireland to his rule.

As John Harrington wisely said - "Treason doth never prosper: what 's the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

In any event, Richard was already a traitor after the attainder wasn't he? I believe the notional charge is always High Treason as that is the legal fig leaf that justifies the extreme sentence.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Somerset is an idiot isn't he?

Apparently something of a himbo since everyone wants to sleep with him but no one wants to listen to him.

The English Civil War... overall I fear it was sadly necessary to demonstrate that Republicanism is evil, dull, grey, monotonous and generally a bit grim. It's legacy continues to this day as the few weird make-the-UK-a-republic campaigners all seem to be dull, boring, grey, etc..

Stopped the army being royal, too.

In any event, Richard was already a traitor after the attainder wasn't he? I believe the notional charge is always High Treason as that is the legal fig leaf that justifies the extreme sentence.

Yes he was, but him doing this means he himself has committed to the bit, so to speak. Crossed the rubicon. Cast the dice. Nailed his privates to his mast.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

If I was the Queen, I would send Richard my reply. He would be given his wife in several boxes with the children being next. I thought that Richard had received the 'broken spirit' trait but it seems more 'arbitrary'. Thank you for the chapter.

I suppose it suggests that she is not fully in charge as that is a thing she would readily do if so. Especially as York's message was not arbitrary but rather quite pointed.

Somerset is an idiot isn't he? We can try and sugar coat the matter, but all the evidence suggest he is thick as mince. He doesn't even have the excuse of "thinking with his little duke" because then he'd be chasing after Edward. Given Margaret can't go five minutes without threatening him, one of the few competent supporters she has left, it remains baffling why he stays loyal, unless he is just an idiot. I fear his mission to Calais will not develop to his advantage.

Apparently something of a himbo since everyone wants to sleep with him but no one wants to listen to him.

I'm not sure I'd say "idiot" but he is rather torn. He is taking his father's place as the leader of his family and to an extant in the court party, and his dalliance with Margaret has its advantages. Plus he hates Warwick so they are natural allies. Even if he has reservations about facing Edward, everything else tells him that he should be a leader in this service to the King (and Queen.)

The English Civil War... overall I fear it was sadly necessary to demonstrate that Republicanism is evil, dull, grey, monotonous and generally a bit grim. It's legacy continues to this day as the few weird make-the-UK-a-republic campaigners all seem to be dull, boring, grey, etc..

Stopped the army being royal, too.

I'll leave it the Brits to debate.

Richard in Dublin was an interesting scene, I believe we saw him finally hit bottom and then start to bounce up again. His conversation with Chevir showed some of the backbone and steel he has on occasion lacked, certainly more resolve than he has shown since Ludford and Edmund should take the credit for that. Seems a bit harsh on Edmund to then make him watch the execution, but then it is a bloody business so better to find out if you have the stomach for it early than too late.


As John Harrington wisely said - "Treason doth never prosper: what 's the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

In any event, Richard was already a traitor after the attainder wasn't he? I believe the notional charge is always High Treason as that is the legal fig leaf that justifies the extreme sentence.

On Edmund - I have to say I feel a bit poorly as I do not believe that I have developed him as much as Edward and they are very nearly the same age. Part of that is surely due to more being known about Edward than Edmund as the latter died so young IRL. However I have tried to show him as perhaps more studious or serious than Edward. Not as rebellious, to be sure. Though part of that difference could be explained by Edward being the eldest and thus York's heir while Edmund is the spare. Needless to say, I do hope it comes across as they are presented.

As for York - It is true that the victor will write the history whenever that is decided. I always thought it funny (and smart I suppose) that IRL Henry VII dated the start of his reign the day before Bosworth so that he could declare that he was merely killing a rebel rather than an anointed King (which Richard III was despite how he may have designed it.)

Yes he was, but him doing this means he himself has committed to the bit, so to speak. Crossed the rubicon. Cast the dice. Nailed his privates to his mast.

And this is quite correct. These are things up with which he will no longer put. I titled an earlier chapter The Time For Choosing and it may have taken us awhile, but York has now made a choice. Question is...has he made THE choice?


Next scene arrives in just a moment...

 

[coz1]

Coventry, November 1459​

King Henry stood with a strength that he was not known for of late. He tired already of sitting in that place and especially at the scene that he witnessed. So many words said. So many poor words. These were not what was to his mind and yet they would not cease!

As he left the hall where Parliament was held, he stormed through the Abbey and made his way to his room at the Priory. Closely behind him was the aged Duke of Buckingham, “Your Grace...but a moment!”

“Nay, my Lord!” Henry shouted behind him as servants tried to keep up, “We wish no more of it!”

With a clear limp Buckingham still persisted, “You are King, sire. What has you out of sorts?”

Henry found his room and tried to slam the chamber door behind him, “Enough of this!”

The Duke caught the door with his hand and slipped into the room with silence. He stood for a moment watching the King storm about until he finally asked, “Your Grace...speak to me. What is your mind?”

The King seemed confused at once going to some wine to pour and then sitting upon his bed. He looked to the window and then finally to the Duke of Buckingham, “I am set upon by all sides, my Lord! Each and every one! Where is my champion and why does he treat me so cruelly?! I have done no thing but honor him and yet he will not cease!”

Having had this conversation so many times, Humphrey Stafford found a chair and sat to allow the King his frustrations. Henry continued, “It is not just him...it is her! Why cannot we have peace? To live within the light of God Almighty and find prosperity for us all? I do not understand it?!”

“Your Grace...” Buckingham calmly responded, “...actions have been done that may not be undone. You hold subjects that will not yield. Not to you or anyone.”

Henry swiftly stood from the bed and shifted to look wistfully out the window of his chamber, “I hold many that would not yield. I know not why. Have I not been loving? Have I not shown my care?”

The Duke offered a sigh as he replied, “Your Grace...you must rule. As you have seen today, many would follow you. These oaths sworn today prove it. The Archbishop of Canterbury and so too of York...many Lords spiritual including the Bishop of Exeter who is son to Salisbury. The Dukes of Exeter and Norfolk as well, Your Grace. Earls and Barons throughout, sire. They cling to you with their honor and would see you made whole.”

“Yet why not HIM?!” the King shouted in frustration.

Buckingham slowly stood and moved towards the King, “If you have found your disappointment, Your Grace, it is no fault of your own. It is only that of the Duke of York and his. They prey upon what is seen as weakness and...”

“I am not ill!!” Henry shouted again with his eyes closed tight.

“Of course you are not,” the Duke helped him to a seat, “Yet I must say to you, Your Grace...you must calm yourself and show all that you are not.”

Henry allowed the soothing movement but still looked to Buckingham with a plea, “Shall I show it to her? We have gone round and round on this for years and yet she will not listen. If York takes liberties, then tell me how she has not done so as well?”

“It is all for you to decide, Your Grace,” the Duke held a comforting hand to the King’s shoulder, “You are sovereign and no one else.”

“And yet I witness today this oath...” Henry looked to the distance, “...not only to me but so too my wife and son. My son? I shall never know.”

Buckingham did not waste a moment, “Let us be off of that, sire. The Prince is your son and all know it. And oaths are taken to confirm you in your place as it should be. I will agree that the Queen is...head strong...in her practices. Yet she is the Queen, sire. Your wife. I do not always agree with her, but I serve you. She is your extension and I must say...proves to you more loyal than too many others.”

“Why, Richard?” Henry kept his firm gaze and remained in his thoughts, “Why?!”

“I am loathe to agree with others, Your Grace...” the Duke pulled a chair close and sat as he looked strongly to the King, “...yet I do now think that he desires more than what he has always stated. He claims to desire good governance. And yet his remedy is always some force of arms. As we have seen. As I have witnessed and found scar...”

Henry looked to him with sorrow, “Always too poor.”

“Yet I remain for you now, Your Grace...” Buckingham continued, “...to show that my wound is and will always be in your service. As so many more have found. What is required...nay, sire...demanded, is your word at all times. And your body to see it through.”

The King looked away, “You know...I myself was wounded at St. Albans.”

“I know it all too well, Your Grace,” the Duke gave nod.

Henry stared to the distance, “And yet I still did not think he meant me harm.”

The Duke of Buckingham held at the King’s hand and answered softly, “I did not think that he did at Blackheath, Your Grace. Nor even to St. Albans. Yet we have moved beyond that point. His words to you are ever kind and yet his actions prove otherwise. Which is more telling?”

“No, sir!” Henry stood and pulled away, “I am beset on all sides and I think him the least of my worries!”

“Your Grace?!” Buckingham followed with frustration, “How can you say that? You have offered your benevolence and mercy at every step of the way. Just this day George Neville offered his oath to you even though his father and brother are outcasts at best and traitors at worst. You hold the other Neville sons to prison at the Tower and he does so? His own brothers? No, sire...I would not wish to argue with you but these are not your worries. I know Richard of York nearly as well as you and I cannot see how he honors you in any way. Surely not how he has shown it. Look you just to what is learned this day. Wiltshire’s own man...murdered to Ireland, Your Grace! And Warwick and his to Calais...they have not ceased in their piracy and even take hold of the merchant’s confidence! Your Grace! I implore you! If you have ever ruled before, now is the time!”

The King stood to the window and looked out with a pensive eye. He did not turn in his answer, “So many words, my Lord. I think...I must pray upon it.”

Buckingham stepped back and answered with some force, “There is time to pray and time for action, Your Grace. In both ways, God Almighty will see you through. Yet you must listen to the words that are heard. I am a man of peace and have done as much as I am able to hold it true. Only you, Your Grace...only you may see it happen.”

“I held my horse, did I not?” the King questioned as he continued to look from the window.

“You...did?” the Duke answered with his own question.

Henry kept his gaze, “And I did not falter.”

“No, sire...you did not,” Buckingham agreed.

The King sighed before giving reply, “Then I suppose I shall have to answer to my cousin.”

“It is devoutly to be wished,” the Duke gave firm nod.

“Then leave us,” Henry waved as he sat again to his bed, “We shall pray upon it and find the answer.”

The Duke of Buckingham questioned, “Are you certain, Your Grace? There is answer already.”

“Nay, my Lord...” Henry rested, “...we will hear God’s word and know what to do.”

 

[HistoryDude]

Wait, does this mean that Henry suspects Margaret's dalliances?

Also, Henry, you didn't do anything. That's the problem - that has always been the problem. You didn't - or couldn't - reign in your wife.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Wait, does this mean that Henry suspects Margaret's dalliances?

He already knows the kid isn't his. Or he did...that was before the mega illness though.

 

[Midnite Duke]

Henry knows that Edward either was an immaculate conception or some other dude for he did not touch that woman. Richard was a traitor from the first time he led troops against Henry (St. Albans or before). Warwick live up to your nickname, a knife between Richard's fourth and fifth cervical spine and place Edmund (Ned can die protecting his father) on the throne. The blame can be placed on Maggie the Tart and her goons. Richard the Martyr can rally more support than Richard the Contender. Thanks

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Henry would be a fine bishop.

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Wait, does this mean that Henry suspects Margaret's dalliances?

Also, Henry, you didn't do anything. That's the problem - that has always been the problem. You didn't - or couldn't - reign in your wife.

The way I have written it, I do believe you could construe that he may have reservations about the paternity of the Prince. There have been definite moments that he spoke his doubts to Margaret but that was some time ago and she won't hear it.

He already knows the kid isn't his. Or he did...that was before the mega illness though.

I'm not certain he "knows" but he does have doubts, yes. His illness has exacerbated that.

Henry knows that Edward either was an immaculate conception or some other dude for he did not touch that woman. Richard was a traitor from the first time he led troops against Henry (St. Albans or before). Warwick live up to your nickname, a knife between Richard's fourth and fifth cervical spine and place Edmund (Ned can die protecting his father) on the throne. The blame can be placed on Maggie the Tart and her goons. Richard the Martyr can rally more support than Richard the Contender. Thanks

The first time Richard raised an army it was at Dartford and Blackheath back in 1452 and indeed, many did think it was traitorous. Yet the King forgave him and then got sick. St. Albans really should have been the thing that woke Henry up, but...nope. As much as Richard refuses to say he wants the throne, Henry refused to admit that his cousin might actually desire it.

Henry would be a fine bishop.

He would agree with you.

Seriously, while Henry is/was a terribly ineffective King, one must admire his piety (if it were not so all encompassing despite his many troubles.) His desire for learning was also a strong suit. He founded King's College at Cambridge and Eton College during his reign. Sadly, these qualities do not help him at all with the current situation.

 

[coz1]

Calais, November 1459​

The Earl of Warwick stood with Edward and looked over a map of Calais and the surrounding region. He pointed to various spots as he spoke, “You have Flanders to the north and then as we move south, the Burgundian lands in Picardie. Thus there is only one way in and out of Calais but the Channel unless Margaret figures out a way to make treaty with these others.”

“Which she will not,” Edward was certain.

Warwick grinned, “Which she will not. Yet here you see the Castle at Guînes just to our south. It guards our approach and will likely be where your young friend decides to strike after his failed attempt to land here.”

“I was quite impressed to see how loyal the garrison is to you, cousin,” Edward gave nod as he looked over the map.

Warwick moved to pour a drink, “Coin is a healthy supplier of loyalty, sir. Never forget that. While there are many things that might engender such, the cost of loyalty should never be underestimated.”

“My father has plenty of coin and yet finds his loyalties wanting,” Edward shifted and accepted a cup from his cousin, “I’ve always believed in his cause, but his inspiration is lacking.”

“Hmm,” Warwick mused, “At least meeting, you were not kind to him. He was already wounded and yet you did not hold back to wound him still.”

Edward moved to sit by the large fire in the hearth, “I suppose I do not agree with how he has gone about it all. I’ve heard he and my mother fighting at times. She argues that he holds to half measures and when faced with false promises, he backs down.”

“And yet here we are due to him not backing down until he was forced to,” Warwick sat as well, “I do not disagree that his methods over the years have been perhaps too soft when they should be harsh in the face of such evil as is this Queen, yet I am at times feeling for him when I see what he is up against. It is no easy thing to take on a sovereign King, Ned. As you are well aware now, we are all attained and our lives forfeit unless we win.”

Edward skewed a brow, “And how do you propose we go about doing that, cousin? Father and Ed are stuck in Ireland and we to here with no way of raising forces in England. There has not been a true and lasting invasion of England since the Conqueror. Even Henry II had his supporters already via his mother. Where are ours?”

“Oh, they are there,” Warwick assured him, “My brother George and the Archbishop Bourchier will be there when we need them. They had to play the loyal subjects if they too did not wish to lose a head. As well, I think Norfolk to be willing when the time comes. Mayhap too the Stanleys for they hold no love for this Queen. Yet the true key...always...is London, sir. And they support me. This I know because I have spent the better part of these last years making sure of it.”

“More coin, eh?” Edward asked.

Warwick grinned, “I told you that loyalty was costly. More to that, the people of Kent remain mindful of this Queen and the King’s Council. They are not trusted. When the cards are placed to the table, what the people want is a strong and energetic King. One that looks to their needs and wants and delivers rather than hem and haw and place all consideration into the hands of sycophants and leeches. When question is put to them, they will answer to our cause.”

“It is damned risky, cousin,” Edward suggested, “Especially when you consider that they hold many trumps. Namely my mother and siblings and your brothers remain to the Tower.”

“I do not believe that the King would harm them,” Warwick looked to the flames, “Her? Yes...likely. Yet not him.”

Edward pressed, “And yet, you suggest that she controls him. So then who is to say that she would not find way to see them harm?”

“I’ve no desire to wait for that to happen,” Warwick turned to him with a very serious eye, “They think that we are maimed and licking our wounds. That it will take time to regroup. Lightening quick they are ready to strike out as seen by your friend Beaufort showing to our door. Do you think it merely because he misses you?”

Edward ignored the jest, “He desires Calais, sir. And your head.”

“And yet I have never once spent the night with him,” Warwick jested again as he stood to refresh his drink.

“Your humor escapes me when we are at a very precarious place, sir,” Edward admonished, “Plans are all well and good yet I would like the prospect of success.”

Warwick turned with renewed seriousness, “Then understand that I do not plan to sit around and do nothing. Of course I can hold out here for years, but that is not my desire. No, cousin...when they strike, I will strike back. There will be no safe haven for them ever again. Not after this humiliation. If they believe that we are weak, they are sorely mistaken.”

They were interrupted when William Hastings entered the hall, “My Lord, your guests have arrived as has your wife and daughters.”

Edward stood with question, “Your wife, sir? How?!”

“Our cousin Thomas, of course,” Warwick smiled, “Our uncle’s bastard. I sent him word the moment I landed and he has seen it through. Did you think that I would leave them there as prey for the wolves?”

“You do think of everything,” Edward was impressed.

Warwick grinned, “Then watch further, my young Earl. Hastings...see the men in and let my Lady Anne know that I will see to her in good time.”

“Of course, my Lord,” Hastings went to do as told.

Edward skewed another brow, “What have you up your sleeve now?”

“You will see,” Warwick smiled as he stood tall and gestured for the two men to enter.

Charles of Burgundy showed his usual grin, “I say, monsieur...it would seem that every time that I see you that you are either getting out of or into some trouble.”

“My Lord Count!” Warwick made a large bow, “You honor me at every occasion I should be received. Allow me to present the Earl of March, my Lord...this be Edward of the House of York.”

“You are Richard’s eldest boy, are you not?” the Count of Charolais questioned with curiosity.

Edward showed a bow and then stood proudly, “I am his eldest son, my Lord. Tis true. And you are the son of Philip, Duke of Burgundy. It is an esteemed honor to meet you.”

Charles reciprocated the bow and then turned to Warwick, “Yet where is your father, my Lord? I was told that the Earl of Salisbury was also to here.”

“His crossing did not agree with him,” Warwick smiled, “Abed early I am afraid.”

“That is too poor,” the Count showed a slight sadness but then smiled as well, “Then I suppose it is just we four sons for I bring to you a surprise. Allow me to present Le Dauphin, Louis of House Valois.”

Louis was older than Charles by a good decade and had a hard face quite the opposite of the visage shown by the Burgundian Count. In truth, he could have been mistaken for a butcher or some such which was why no one really noticed him when he entered the hall. His eyes darted about and he was clearly a good listener. Warwick sized him up immediately and knew that he would be a man to consider.

“This is indeed a rare honor, my Lord!” Warwick offered an even deeper bow, “Monsieur le Dauphin, all that we may offer is yours should you wish it. You must only speak it.”

Louis spoke with a heavy accent, “I must say that I was curious to meet this...le Warwick...that stands before me now. I thought that you would be taller.”

“I am sorry to disappoint,” Warwick did not show injury.

“Ah! But this one!” Louis pointed to Edward, “This one is grandiose! Vous êtes merveilleuse! Such grandeur!”

“Merci, Monsieur le Dauphin,” Edward replied in perfect French, “C'est un plaisir de vous rencontrer.”

Louis smiled, “And educated well. Bravo! It would seem that they still speak the proper tongue in English courts.”

“Yet what do we owe the honor of a presence before un prince du sang of France, my Lords?” Warwick questioned.

“He said it well enough,” Charles laughed, “Though I think he may be bored. How, I do not know? The Burgundian court is the finest in the lands.”

“If my father would die, I would then find the finest,” Louis answered quickly, “Yet he holds still to his crown. Paper thin though it may be.”

Charles followed, “As well, we did have some hope of clearing up a few things. I was entirely agreeable to answering your call, my Lord. Yet I think that you do play at a number of games and our game is not to be dismissed just because you find a more interesting one to your home.”

“As I am certain that you have kept your ears firmly to our situation, I need not express how dire the circumstance,” Warwick replied as he moved to pour them both wine.

“A circumstance of your own making, I should think,” Charles moved to sit and invited the Dauphin to do as well, “As I suggested to you some time ago, it is this one’s father...enjoy him as much as I do...that presses. Un coup d'état contre le roi, monsieur. It can be no other.”

Edward did not rise to the accusation and calmly sat next to them, “You mistake me and my father, sirs. We are true subjects of the crown and respect it above all...”

“C'est cette salope, ma cousine,” Louis interrupted as he accepted his wine.

“Le Dauphin speaks it true,” Warwick sat as he handed off the other goblet, “Poor counsel, a weak King and too many that are forced to go without. And she takes advantage over all.”

Charles sipped at his wine and then crossed a leg, “So it then comes to me as surprise that you did offer this son of hers in a match. You will say whatever you wish to say, yet I know what is your goal. It is only natural. Je demande pardon, my Lord Earl...yet your father should be le Roi. In every way. Yet if he is...then this...cet enfant...is not worthy of my court or any other.”

“Un bâtard...” Louis allowed, “...so I am told.”

Warwick tried to placate, “It is terribly sad that we have not been able to come to arrangement, but any match should be off the table at the now. There is too much at stake...too much that may change.”

“Aha!” Charles pounced, “So you see, I am right. Yet what about this one here? My Lord Earl of March...you are young and strong it would seem to my eyes. Why have you not yet been matched? I do have a daughter...much younger than you...but very pretty.”

“My father is to Ireland at the now and I would need to consult with him first,” Edward allowed.

“Plantagenêt...” Louis mused as he looked to the flames and sipped his wine, “...how the name both frightens and excites. L'horreur et l'imagination! For one hundred years...more...mine have fought with them. And lost. Jeanne d'Arc was a myth...a dream. A thing to burn just as my land is burned at the now. Yet you did lose your Duc de Bedford, oui? So...is it even? Non! Yet mon pere fails as much as the King of the Anglais, so what is treaty between weak fools? Mon seigneur Comte de March...I would offer you terms.”

Charles leaned forward, “And this is why we are here.”

Edward again protested, “My father is the one to...”

“Silence, s'il vous plait,” Louis looked to the young Earl with a deep gaze, “Allow me to speak and then take what I give to you to your father. I hold a son François and he is young...très jeune...yet you hold a sister. Marguerite I believe is her name? I put it to you, monsieur...if you could see this match, I would put all I have into seeing peace between our realms. For Burgundy, for France and for England. Mon bon ami Charles would speak to his father and mon pere will not live forever. Think of it, monsieur. A lasting peace when I am to mine and you are to yours. It could change the world.”

Warwick tried to slow down the talks, “While I am certain that the Lord of York would wish to entertain such designs, it is rather putting the cart before the horse. And beside that, the Duke’s aim is merely to...”

“Please, do not treat us as fools,” Charles replied plainly, “You hold no other choice at the now. The none of you do. If you return to England with any other aim but to take the throne, you will be killed and cruelly. While I do sometimes wonder at your intelligence, my Lord of Warwick, I know at least that you value your life and livelihood. And my Lord of March...I have yet to make full assessment of your abilities but you do strike me as capable and bright. You must understand this as well for surely your Lord father does.”

Edward smiled, “It is difficult to tease from his mind his intentions as we are far away from one another and the Channel is not safe for our messages.”

“Then we shall have to help remedy that, will we not?” Charles leaned to Louis.

Louis allowed a slim smile, “Oui.”

“Yet...” Edward showed a curious eye, “...why would you assist? What does it bring to Burgundy or to you Monsieur le Dauphin personally?

Louis allowed the Count of Charolais to reply, “We both would wish our place...finally. Our fathers held enmity with one another but since these years that le Dauphin has been to the Burgundian court, he and I have become close. Peace, my Lords...it may truly be at hand. Yet one thing stands between that. The ever changing possibilities of the English throne which still surely holds designs this side of the Channel. I would not blame you.”

“Ni moi, mes seigneurs,” Louis agreed.

“And so...” Charles followed, “...it is to our interest to see the issue resolved. While it might seem better for us to desire a weak King of England, that he is so weak means that there will always be a revolving group of men taking charge of the King’s person. That and we cannot count on the Queen of England being kind to any that may slight her. And there are many on both sides of the Channel. No, sirs. We both do think it better to have a Lord like York who is his own man and one we could at the least be confident of his designs. Which is why we may wish for arrangement now rather than later.”

Warwick crossed his arms in question, “So you would be willing to assist in arms and men so that we may cause this result?”

“Non, monsieur,” Louis shook his head, “That we cannot do.”

“But of course,” Edward replied with a grin.

Charles agreed with the Dauphin, “We could not be seen as taking sides. Yet I will loan you some ships. For the right price. If that would help you take charge of the Channel.”

“And perhaps...une trêve de trois mois?” Louis looked to Charles.

“Oui,” Charles gave nod and turned from Louis to the Earls, “Three months, my Lords. We can assure you of no hostilities from our side in Burgundy while you take what you must. Of course, it would count for your other Lords as well...this Somerset? He would gain this also.”

“I suppose that is fair,” Edward answered and looked to his cousin.

Warwick was less pleased but agreed to it, “It would be unbecoming of us to ask for more, my Lords.”

“Bien,” Louis smiled briefly.

Charles did likewise, “Then it is settled. Bon chance to you, sirs. We look forward very much to the outcome.”

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Mm. Interesting plan. Quite clever. Burgundy and France are in a bit of bother (latter moreso than the former). England is much stronger at present, but divided. If they can get a sympathetic king on the throne, that would help them both out, and remove the current queen who is too tied to an older France that needs to die.

They're also probably hoping to convince the English to focus on conquering their islands rather than the mainland, which is also a good idea for all involved...

 

[HistoryDude]

Well, Richard still has his supporters in England, I'm sure.

I'm shocked that France and the French are siding against Margaret. I suppose even they can't stand her?

 

[coz1]

Fb-fb:

Mm. Interesting plan. Quite clever. Burgundy and France are in a bit of bother (latter moreso than the former). England is much stronger at present, but divided. If they can get a sympathetic king on the throne, that would help them both out, and remove the current queen who is too tied to an older France that needs to die.

They're also probably hoping to convince the English to focus on conquering their islands rather than the mainland, which is also a good idea for all involved...

Indeed, pure practical self interest. This is one of the most ahistorical things about this AAR in that the ties Burgundy and France are not nearly as poisoned as IRL, mostly due to the diminished state of France compared to the historical version. It is historically true that the Dauphin was not reconciled with his father King Charles VII and spent at least part of his time in exile at the Burgundian Court of Duke Philip the Good and there is plenty of historical record that Warwick attempted to play to both diplomatically (often using one against the other.)

It is likely ahistorical that Charles and Louis would be so friendly (mostly in my mind by their relationship once each gained their full power - Louis as King Louis XI and Charles as Duke Charles the Bold. Yet it makes some sense in this world that Charles might hope to pull France closer as a tributary state and perhaps use England as a tie that binds. I should note that another slight aspect of this is entirely of this world - Louis' son IRL was Charles who would become Charles VIII. Here he has a son François which is from the game itself. These sorts of things are always buried in the narrative, but take note of that going forward.

Also, if anyone was hankering for the exploits of the future Charles VIII as he will never appear within this work, you could do worse that the great MrT's l'éminence grise from 2002, specifically this post detailing the fallout from Charles VIII's death. It is one of the greatest posts of all time from this forum, IMHO.

Well, Richard still has his supporters in England, I'm sure.

I'm shocked that France and the French are siding against Margaret. I suppose even they can't stand her?

Not so much France but Louis the Dauphin. It is historical that Burgundy was never friendly with Henry VI's court and thus was closer to the Yorkist cause, but it made sense to me that Louis while he remains an exile from France proper might look to make moves himself given the low state of the France in this AAR. Would he maintain that if/when he becomes King himself? That is a question to be answered down the road.


To all - This was one of the more fun scenes I've written likely why it is a tad longer than usual. I just enjoyed getting these four guys in a room and hashing it out. Hopefully each was distinctive in their own way. I especially liked looking at Charles and Louis as they met and sized up young Edward. I also thought it was a good moment to remind of the larger world a little. While it is true that Warwick et al. reached out to Burgundy at this time, it did not happen exactly like this. Proof, I suppose, that I am actually writing an AAR and not just rehashing real history.

 

[El Pip]

Another fine pair of chapters as usual, as I have little specific to add to the previous comments I shall instead pull out some lines that caught my eye.

“I am not ill!!” Henry shouted again with his eyes closed tight.

“Nay, my Lord...” Henry rested, “...we will hear God’s word and know what to do.”

These two lines are almost the essence of Henry. The piety obviously, but it being put to the service not of the Lord but of cowardly delay and mithering inaction. Who can doubt that when Henry 'hears God's word' it will instruct him to do nothing at all? His deranged insistence that he is not ill point to the other parts of his character, the baffling pride and world class ability to ignore reality. Far more than anyone else the responsibility for this mess lies with Henry, he is the King and had the loyalty of the majority, yet he blames others rather than admit his own culpability.

Henry would be a fine bishop.

Would he though? A decent monk perhaps, shut away in a quiet cloister to pray and read theology. But Bishops have to actually make decisions, even if only about the church, and Henry is terrible at that.

Edward ignored the jest, “He desires Calais, sir. And your head.”

“And yet I have never once spent the night with him,” Warwick jested again as he stood to refresh his drink.

Ahh Warwick, I knew there was a reason you were one of my favourite. Sure the politicking and diplomatic games with Burgundy and France are impressive enough, but to do with a smile and a ribbing of your colleagues adds a certain touch of class.

Proof, I suppose, that I am actually writing an AAR and not just rehashing real history.

I confess I have had my doubts on this point, so it is wonderful to see some actual changes. Not that the work isn't an entertaining read, but it did slightly undercut the tension when the story was just following the historical War of the Roses, thus change and difference are to be warmly welcomed.

 

[coz1]

These two lines are almost the essence of Henry. The piety obviously, but it being put to the service not of the Lord but of cowardly delay and mithering inaction. Who can doubt that when Henry 'hears God's word' it will instruct him to do nothing at all? His deranged insistence that he is not ill point to the other parts of his character, the baffling pride and world class ability to ignore reality. Far more than anyone else the responsibility for this mess lies with Henry, he is the King and had the loyalty of the majority, yet he blames others rather than admit his own culpability.


Would he though? A decent monk perhaps, shut away in a quiet cloister to pray and read theology. But Bishops have to actually make decisions, even if only about the church, and Henry is terrible at that.

Indeed, I think a monk better than a Bishop. The Bishop has to do the politics and that would not suit Henry.

Ahh Warwick, I knew there was a reason you were one of my favourite. Sure the politicking and diplomatic games with Burgundy and France are impressive enough, but to do with a smile and a ribbing of your colleagues adds a certain touch of class.

I rather liked that jibe myself.

I confess I have had my doubts on this point, so it is wonderful to see some actual changes. Not that the work isn't an entertaining read, but it did slightly undercut the tension when the story was just following the historical War of the Roses, thus change and difference are to be warmly welcomed.

No doubt and that fear was part the reason it took me so long to write this in the first place. Would the readers stay with me long enough to get to the real alternative history? The changes are slight here and there or in the background often, but it is there. However, when we really diverge...you will know.

 

[coz1]

Guînes, December 1459​

After a failed attempt to land at Calais, Henry Beaufort was determined to stake his claim and drive Warwick from his establishment as its Captain. The Duke of Somerset was aided in this endeavor by several important commanders. There was the new Lord Audley, James Tuchet. His father had been killed in the Battle of Blore Heath and this son was keen to see the enemy. There was also Thomas, Lord Ros whose mother was half-sister to Warwick’s wife Anne Beauchamp. He was also an older half-brother to the Duke of Somerset as his mother had married Edmund Beaufort after the elder Lord Thomas Ros died in 1430.

Both were near in age to the Duke as was Humphrey Stafford, named Baron Stafford of Southwick. His family was a cadet branch of the Earls of Stafford now known by his own namesake the very Duke of Buckingham. Though named after Buckingham, this Humphrey Stafford was not nearly as peace minded. Holding extensive lands within Dorset, his fortunes could be raised by supporting Somerset. And then there was Sir Edmund Sutton. The son of Lord Dudley who had been released when Ludlow was sacked, he too had gained his freedom and while his father still nursed at injuries, the son was desperate to cleanse that bitter taste of defeat.

Between them, they had spent days planning this next excursion and they were assisted by perhaps the most important commander of them all. Sir Andrew Trollope had been decisive in the Battle of Ludford Bridge when he deserted Warwick and took much of the strength of York’s army from the Duke. As a veteran of the French wars and holding extensive knowledge of the garrison at Calais, his mind was key in this attempted invasion.

When asked to attend, Trollope had argued that it would be impossible to remove Warwick as long as the garrison remained loyal. Yet he did have an idea. The Castle at Guînes could be had with the right attack. It had long been important security in the Pale of Calais protecting the southern approach from France and Burgundy and was known to hold several prisoners which might be utilized in the Duke’s army if given their freedom. The knight had suggested that taking that keep could provide a bridge and a base with which to wage constant warfare against the Earl of Warwick and Somerset agreed.

The taking of the town had been an easy task. Yet the castle itself was formidable. Moated, the French had attempted a siege of it a hundred years prior and failed. Since then it had grown into an important defense of the English position. Trollope argued that Warwick would know this and try to garrison accordingly, yet he held two fronts. The Earl could not attack England from the Channel while also holding this key position. He simply did not have enough men. More to that, Trollope knew the commander well. This was the ploy.

With an army of less than fifty men, the knight approached the draw bridge and called up to the sentries, “My Lord Earl is in dire straights! Where be Willmont?!”

“Who calls there?” a sentry hollered worried that it was a ruse.

Trollope answered, “I command the soldiers of the Earl of Warwick! Call for Sir Willmont for he knows me. Tell him it is Trollope and if you wish to know the truth, look ye to the horizon!”

Knowing that the attempt to take the castle would alert the Calais garrison, Trollope was correct for there was a force approaching from the north. The sentry saw it and called for the commander. When Sir Willmont stepped to the ramparts he saw Trollope but questioned, “Friend, I know not that I may trust you. It is said that you deserted the Earl. Can this be true?”

“I am your ally, sir!” Trollope shouted in return, “We are to hard place! You may see the town occupied and it is we being chased. Open the gate and let us in!”

As Sir Willmont tried to find the truth of it, he could not know that Henry Beaufort had soldiers scaling the walls and by the time he answered, there was a sword to his neck. His sentries had been subdued and all he could do was order the opening of the bridge. Trollope and his men galloped over and took charge of the castle and within short time, so too did the Duke of Somerset.

Following soon after was Sir Edmund Sutton and he brought with him a warning, “My Lord Duke...we are surrounded!”

Somerset did not have time to appreciate his taking of the castle as he moved to the ramparts and watched to the distance. He had brought with him a thousand men and yet Sutton was true. All around he saw soldiers showing the banners of the Earls of Salisbury and March. Dammit, Ned! This was precisely what he had hoped to avoid.

Yet where was Warwick? The Duke called for Trollope and the knight attended immediately, “Yes, my Lord?”

“I applaud your attempt and success...” Somerset answered with worry to his voice, “...yet look ye there!”

Trollope did as asked and turned back to the Duke with a plain face, “It is to be expected, my Lord. This would never be an easy task. I would suggest that you pull all you hold back to the castle so that we might fortify. If we are to use it, we must have it in full.”

“Then call in our commanders!” Somerset demanded and moved to the hall of the castle. He did not wait long when he was attended to by Lord Ros.

“Brother...it is chaos!” Ros suggested, “I only escaped with my life!”

Somerset was disturbed, “What mean you?!”

Lord Ros was exhausted and attempted to explain, “It was rear guard. We fought as best we could but the young Earl took our position and the Lords Audley and Stafford are prisoners!”

“Then how are you here?” Somerset looked to his older half brother.

“I was released to tell you,” Ros replied with sadness.

Somerset held him by the collar, “Tell me what?!”

“You have taken the castle, sir...” Ros answered, “...yet Warwick has taken advantage of our attempt. He has mounted a lighting raid upon Sandwich and holds to him ships. I know not how, but the young Earl did instruct me to inform you. He expressly told me to say that ‘his Harry’ would and could not win.”

“His Harry?” Sir Edmund Sutton questioned.

The elder knight leaned closer and whispered, “We are beyond the Pale, sir. This is personal.”

Somerset did not hear it and fumed, “Damn you, Ned!!”

“It is disappointing, my Lord,” Trollope turned to the Duke, “Yet it is not a setback. We have achieved our goal and from here we may sortie out. Take that as solace.”

“He will not relent!” Somerset replied with irritation.

Lord Ros answered, “Mayhap not, brother. I should return to England and inform the Queen.”

“You would run?!” Henry turned to his older half brother with shock.

Ros stood firm, “I would find you reinforcement, sir! Trollope is correct. Use this and think not that it is failure.”

“It is a strong keep, my Lord,” Trollope followed, “Though we took it easily, I would not allow it to be done so again. Hold fast.”

Henry Beaufort sighed a massive sigh and looked to them both, “Then protect and defend, sirs. Victory is too fleeting but I will not be denied.”

“Then shall I to the Queen?” Ros questioned.

Somerset looked to him with great irritation, “If you can, brother. She will not be pleased.”

 

[HistoryDude]

No, Margaret will not. She might even kill the messenger, which will do wonders for her cause...'s enemies.

Ned took personal offense to Somerset's attack. That could make things... messy. Very messy.

 

[El Pip]

No, Margaret will not. She might even kill the messenger, which will do wonders for her cause...'s enemies.

She is becoming so deranged I can't rule that out. I'd hope those around her would talk her out of it, but her courtiers have been specially selected for their lack of spine so that is a long shot.

Overall I think Warwick would be happy enough with that trade, nothing will be won or lost in Calais so losing an outer fort in exchange for being able to act in England definitely favours his cause. Indeed to a certain extent having Somerset's force trapped in a castle and unable to intervene is the best place for them, they may not be defeated but they are just as useless when surrounded. As an added bonus his side has picked up a few more important prisoners and is goading his enemies into making mistakes, few people think well when angry so the more Ned winds up Somerset the better.

I was mildly surprised at Trollope incinerating his reputation like that, but then I remembered he has already shown himself to be an untrustworthy traitor so has very little to lose on that front. Still a shame for the man, to throw so much away in the service of a sociopathic Queen who is as likely to kill him as ignore him (thanking or appreciating him are, of course, never an option for someone so belligerently self-centred).