• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Given how long sieges can go on for, that might be Somerset out for a few months to a few years, unless he surrenders.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Fb-fb:

No, Margaret will not. She might even kill the messenger, which will do wonders for her cause...'s enemies.

Ned took personal offense to Somerset's attack. That could make things... messy. Very messy.
I hope she doesn't kill Lord Ros since he just snuck up on me. o_O Goes to show that you can do all the research in the world and still miss something. I hope it was clear above - Somerset's mother (again, Warwick's Beauchamp sister in law) was previously married prior to Edmund Beaufort. Lord Ros is the child of that previous marriage. I never noticed that myself until it got to the above scene.

We knew Ned and Harry would have to face each other at some point. Which is why it will always be personal between them.

She is becoming so deranged I can't rule that out. I'd hope those around her would talk her out of it, but her courtiers have been specially selected for their lack of spine so that is a long shot.

Overall I think Warwick would be happy enough with that trade, nothing will be won or lost in Calais so losing an outer fort in exchange for being able to act in England definitely favours his cause. Indeed to a certain extent having Somerset's force trapped in a castle and unable to intervene is the best place for them, they may not be defeated but they are just as useless when surrounded. As an added bonus his side has picked up a few more important prisoners and is goading his enemies into making mistakes, few people think well when angry so the more Ned winds up Somerset the better.

I was mildly surprised at Trollope incinerating his reputation like that, but then I remembered he has already shown himself to be an untrustworthy traitor so has very little to lose on that front. Still a shame for the man, to throw so much away in the service of a sociopathic Queen who is as likely to kill him as ignore him (thanking or appreciating him are, of course, never an option for someone so belligerently self-centred).
It really is a good trade off for Warwick (which we shall see) even though Somerset is not entirely surrounded. He is as of that scene, but Salisbury and Edward cannot occupy that town indefinitely. Eventually Somerset will be able to make quick strikes at Calais but nothing that can take it (slight spoiler warning.)

As for Trollope, I think he is more of an old soldier type and this is adventure. Sort of a mercenary as I look at him.

Given how long sieges can go on for, that might be Somerset out for a few months to a few years, unless he surrenders.
But yes, even if he can get out and do some damage, he is stuck there doing that instead of in England where he may well be needed soon enough.


To all - A slight note on the map that headed the scene. While it supposedly comes from about 100 years later, I thought it close enough to get the picture in your mind. While the castle was already moated by the time of the above scene, it may not have been as advanced. Either way, this is suggested as the exact way they got in and took it. Including Trollope.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Plus being trapped in a siege really, really (and I do mean really) ups your chances of dying of disease. Somerset probably will not die abticlimatically offscreen like this, but had that actually happened in history, he'd be rolling the dice, along with rhe rest of his men.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Plus being trapped in a siege really, really (and I do mean really) ups your chances of dying of disease. Somerset probably will not die abticlimatically offscreen like this, but had that actually happened in history, he'd be rolling the dice, along with rhe rest of his men.
Nor will he die anticlimactically. ;)

The next short scene follows and carries on with this game of cats and mouses.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
X5di5lY.jpg


Sandwich, December 1459

“They are lightly defended,” Lord Rivers looked over the hedge.

Sir Gervase Clifton knelt next to him, “Still...it won’t be easy, my Lord.”

His bones ached in this cold, and he sighed. He thought he was over this part of his life and could simply enjoy his wife and many children. Yet the Queen had demanded that he form a proper fleet of ships and men to protect the Channel and thwart Warwick’s action. Jacquetta had looked to him askance but eventually agreed that he had to follow the order. And when he considered ships, he realized there were a good many right here. Rivers elbowed Clifton, “Have your men muster near the mill. I’ll take some archers and come up the river from the south.”

“Aye, my Lord,” Clifton knuckled his helm, “God be with you.”

Rivers nudged his head over the hedge one more time and then gathered his men. Only twenty five in all, the old soldier directed them down and then over the rope walk and they met up by the Flemish trading house. The streets were mostly bare as Warwick’s men had been harassing the locals and the Baron beckoned his archers to follow him towards Fishergate and the River Stour. As they began to move up they could see that Warwick’s men were alerted already to Sir Gervase coming towards them in the opposite direction. Ordering his archers to let loose, several were struck down and Clifton handled his side well. They were soon surrounded and the ships confiscated.

As soldiers collected the prisoners and led them to the jail, Sir Gervase approached Lord Rivers, “You were right. I am surprised that Warwick has left them so vulnerable.”

“He has much to consider,” Rivers suggested as he moved towards the Guildhall, “Somerset has landed and takes several sorties towards Calais. He is keeping the Earl well busy.”

Clifton kept up, “I think him not to cease his actions, however.”

“No,” the Baron was quick to reply in certainty, “He will not. It is risky right now as we enter winter and the campaigning season is past. Yet I would not believe that he will not be bold. This raid of his to Sandwich already proves it.”

“Then we shall have to find a larger army than this,” the knight answered as they took the front steps of the hall, “And I think not to find them in these parts. Many are very loyal to York and his.”

Lord Rivers moved to pour a drink, “And without the coin for it.”

“As is always the case,” Clifton pulled his helm from his head and wiped his sweaty brow, “Always told to act but with no way to pay for it.”

“It is time immemorial,” Rivers moved to the fire to warm his backside, “Even in Bedford’s time, Parliament was as tight as a puckered arsehole. Frankly, much of York’s complaint stems from that. I’m sure he still is owed aplenty. Yet he has over stepped his bounds now and this cannot hold.”

Sir Gervase downed part of his ale and then stepped closer, “So my Lord...if we are to man these ships, where will we get them from?”

“Anywhere we can, sir,” Rivers showed him a firm eye, “We hold no other choice. Start with the local men and round it out from there. I shall write to the Lord of Exeter and inform him of the dire position. Would be nice if he could lift a damnable finger. We shall merely have to hold out.”

“Still...” Clifton tried to lift the mood, “...Warwick will sulk now that his ships are taken.”

Lord Rivers turned back to the fire, “Which is why we should be ready.”
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
It would be lovely if Rivers dies.
 
It would be lovely if Rivers dies.
Every time I read through this history, I do sometimes wonder who is worse - the Beauforts or the Woodvilles? ;)
 
Warwick now needs to take the Channel. That'll make things more difficult, although it might open up an invasion from Ireland...

Also, obligatory "God frowns upon adultery" comment and is therefore unlikely to be with them...
 
Every time I read through this history, I do sometimes wonder who is worse - the Beauforts or the Woodvilles? ;)
The Beauforts, but with the Woodvilles quite close behind.
 
Nor will he die anticlimactically. ;)
So he will die climactically? How risqué.

Onto the scene, this appears to be something of a slip from Warwick but you can never be sure. There are so many wheels within wheels that it could be part of a cunning plan, or it could be a cockup that he pretends is part of a cunning plan. Either way there will be a reaction to this and I doubt it ends well for Rivers and co.
 
Fb-fb:

Warwick now needs to take the Channel. That'll make things more difficult, although it might open up an invasion from Ireland...

Also, obligatory "God frowns upon adultery" comment and is therefore unlikely to be with them...
Someone needs to take the Channel, no doubt. If Warwick can stage lightening raids, then the Queen's forces need to step it up. Rivers was able to take it back here, but who knows how long that will last?

The Beauforts, but with the Woodvilles quite close behind.
Honestly, it is the sheer amount of them! And I should say, Baron Rivers has already had his brood of daughters. ;)

So he will die climactically? How risqué.

Onto the scene, this appears to be something of a slip from Warwick but you can never be sure. There are so many wheels within wheels that it could be part of a cunning plan, or it could be a cockup that he pretends is part of a cunning plan. Either way there will be a reaction to this and I doubt it ends well for Rivers and co.
As above, as long as the Channel is open both sides have the ability to function. Warwick's raid upon Sandwich was not meant as an invasion point (yet...though he is testing) but rather to gain the ships required. He has some on loan from Burgundy, but he'll need a lot more to get a full invasion force over. Right now, advantage Queen. But you're not wrong (nor is Rivers) that there will be a reaction. ;)


To all - Just a note on the writing front. I have just completed chapter 19 and reached a moment I've been waiting for. You won't read it for some time, but I'm excited to finally get there. :D
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
xcs9od6.jpg


London, December 1459

A day in the life of Master Judd

It seemed a small thing. Large in physical form, but the cannon was but one thing among so many others. Alston Judd was named Master of Ordnances by the King and Council and he had been commanded to survey the ordnance of every castle and fortified town to ensure that all was in good repair. He awoke that morning with all of this to mind and his wife was not interested in that. Instead she wished to call him out for returning home far too late the night before.

“I know not whom you serve but the drink!” she harangued him, “Do you not hold a job?!”

“Madam, I’ll have you know that I own a very impressive job,” Judd sat to the table and ate what was offered.

She rounded the table and stared at him, “I know not how! A slob and more, who would hire you?”

“The King, dear wife,” Judd munched with a pleasant mind.

“Hmm!” she snorted and moved to pour him some morning ale, “Then all the rumors are true. The man must be mad!”

Judd shrugged his soldiers and answered, “More bacon, please.”

As he finished his breakfast, he dressed and thankfully his wife had left him alone. Leaving the house, he marched merrily up the street and thankfully Harry Pum was already open. Popping in for a quick pint, Alston sat to a table and Harry stepped over with a smile, “Long day ahead of you?”

“Up to St. Albans,” Judd replied as he accepted the offered pint, “Inspecting the new serpentines up there. I’m told the King wants them straightaways.”

Harry held a long gaze, “D’ya think he means to actually fight?”

With a shrug, Judd replied, “Who’s to know? But as Master of Ordnance, I’ll do my work.”

“Loads of folks out there...disappointed right now,” his friend suggested.

“I can’t get into all that,” Judd answered as he drained his cup and stood, “It’s not like they tell me. Them folks to Parliament, they want to make the laws. I’m a merchant by trade and I get it. But I can’t answer for all their cries.”

Harry held a hand to his arm, “Allie...this embargo on trade from Calais is killin’ the wool men. I hear it nightly.”

“What am I to do?”

“You got the ear of the King, right?” Harry suggested, “Talk to ‘im. Let ‘im know.”

Judd laughed, “If I’ve met the King, then I’ve met your brother’s sister. He don’t give me my marching orders. It’s the Council and mostly the Queen. Even then...I just listen and do what’s told. It’s damned good pay.”

“Then fair thee well, my friend,” Harry waived as Judd left the tavern, “Watch your tail out there.”

Moving again up the street and dodging trash thrown out, he eventually walked next to St. Paul’s Cross and heard a priest calling out to a gathered crown, “...as God Almighty calls down to judge ye rightly, there will be those that deny the kind face of the Lord! And as these Lords look unkindly to that anointed by and living fully in the Grace of God, these Lords should not be prayed over. For they are sinners and no man should pray to such that is a traitor against God!”

Hues and cries rang out from those assembled and they gave him little thanks for his message. Calls for “Extortion!!!” and “I ain’t sendin’ my son to fight this!” followed. More even encouraged the mood with, “God praise York!” and “Warwick will see to you!”

Judd watched the priest duck from rotten vegetables thrown and made his way to the livery. He found his mount and set out for what was surely a lovely day. The ride to St. Albans was a treasure and he enjoyed the road. Much safer during the day, he thought. And when he arrived, there was the beauty. He’d ordered her special. It was a huge great beast made of bronze on a wheeled carriage. Surely she was heavy. She had to be. Of all the work he’d done and designed, this was his greatest feat. Even the shine on her was perfect.

The other guns to the area had been sufficient such as they were. Yet they were not this. He was certain that the King would call for it to be placed to the very Tower. After some few pleasant words with the craftsman, Judd popped down to the local and had another pint. Here he was greeted rudely.

“Oi! What you doin’ in here?” a man said as he entered the tavern, “We know who you are. Work for that whore, don’t ye? York and Warwick won this place fair and square. Ain’t no place like this for the likes of you.”

Judd tried to be nice, “Ah...good fellows, well met. Just in for the bit of the local flavor and I’ll be on my way.”

“Yeah!” the man shouted over his mates, “And we don’t want you here! Been enough trouble with your kind, and we don’t want no more!”

“Right then,” Judd retreated, “No cause for harm.”

The man shouted after him as he left the tavern, “There be no cause? Come back in ‘ere and find out!”

Master Judd sighed. He had hoped for that pint so his long ride back to London would be pleasant. Yet not everything could be perfect. Everything but that cannon. A masterpiece. He thought over every inch of her as his mount made the slow clip clop down the road. He was thinking of her slim mouth as he turned the corner and rode beside a copse of trees.

He was not even aware when a group of men wearing hoods slipped from the wood behind him. As he made his way down the road, they crept closer and closer until the first overtook him and pulled him from his mount.

“What the devil?!” he called out.

The one that pulled him down knelt with a knee to his chest, “These woods ain’t safe!”

“I serve the King, sir!” Judd answered, “On the King’s business!”

“More poor you then,” the man replied with pressure, “For he ain’t loved round here!”

“If it is a matter pay...” Judd tried to find his purse.

The man reached behind his back and pulled a knife, “You’re coin ain’t no good here. Only Warwick’s.”

Master Judd began to struggle, “I am a servant of the King! A merchant to London! I have a family!!”

“Not anymore you don’t,” the man answered as he buried the knife in Judd’s chest, “You trod the wrong path.”

The rest took turns at stabbing the poor hapless Judd and his body was left for the wolves. It would take another day for someone to find his remains and when word got back to the Council they began to understand the people’s loyalty and where it lay.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
King Henry isn't mad, just incredibly indecisive. Queen Margaret's the mad one.

It looks like both York and Warwick still have a lot of support in England. Margaret tried to have the priests preach in her favor, and it still didn't improve opinion of her... For that matter, I wonder what those priests will do if they find out about her great sins...
 
King Henry isn't mad, just incredibly indecisive. Queen Margaret's the mad one.

It looks like both York and Warwick still have a lot of support in England. Margaret tried to have the priests preach in her favor, and it still didn't improve opinion of her... For that matter, I wonder what those priests will do if they find out about her great sins...
Samson and Delilah. The sermons write themselves. And comparing Henry VI to a Samson made weak and vulnerable is one of the few interpretations likely to thread the needle of a Yorkist censor.
 
I do feel sorry for Master Judd, he seemed a decent enough sort who didn't deserve that end. Or indeed that wife. Small plus of his untimely demise is he might get a bit of peace and quiet.

In comparison the preacher would deserve such a fate. These are sad times when innocent craftsmen are dying while a corrupt priesthood thrive on their bribes.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Fb-fb:

King Henry isn't mad, just incredibly indecisive. Queen Margaret's the mad one.

It looks like both York and Warwick still have a lot of support in England. Margaret tried to have the priests preach in her favor, and it still didn't improve opinion of her... For that matter, I wonder what those priests will do if they find out about her great sins...
Very good look in seeing the message of the priest. That was intended.

Samson and Delilah. The sermons write themselves. And comparing Henry VI to a Samson made weak and vulnerable is one of the few interpretations likely to thread the needle of a Yorkist censor.
They do write themselves though was Henry ever Samson? I doubt the Yorkists think so.

I do feel sorry for Master Judd, he seemed a decent enough sort who didn't deserve that end. Or indeed that wife. Small plus of his untimely demise is he might get a bit of peace and quiet.

In comparison the preacher would deserve such a fate. These are sad times when innocent craftsmen are dying while a corrupt priesthood thrive on their bribes.
A bit more below, but I did feel the need to provide Master Judd with a harpy as a wife to land the scene. ;)


To all - I planned this scene as I wrote because I wanted to show a more local level and the support still for Warwick and York. It's a bit gruesome but I hope that it lands. It is a terrible thing that happened to him, yet as so much other of this work, this really happened. I was also somewhat inspired by one of my favorite bits ever written around these parts. Kudos to those that might be able to catch it. ;)

Almost to the end of the chapter and I've sped through the writing of chapter 21. Oh boy, do you have a lot to read ahead of you. :p

I can't wait until you do. Thank you always.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
ATaKN48.jpg


Sandwich, January 1460

It was good to be back in England though he should not have been there. The Earl of Warwick had directed Sir John Dynham to take back his ships at Sandwich and it was no easy task for Edward of York to take the place of one of Dynham’s men. Yet as taught, coin was a powerful thing once he identified the mark. The happy sailor was off drinking to Calais and the young Earl of March stood to the railing of the ship with his cowl pulled close.

After rounding the Godwin Sands, the ship had pulled up the river and found the dockside quiet. Once the anchor had been set, Sir John sent boats ashore. Edward made certain that he was one of the first to volunteer. He was surrounded by hardened men with both clubs and bow. The dock workers were easily subdued and then Dynham sent in his protection. Two hundred men followed taking both the docks and the ships moored there but so too pressing into town.

It was a cold early morning and most of those set to protect the town by the Baron Rivers were either still asleep or nursing their head from a night of drinking. The knight’s forces took them easily and nearly three hundred were rounded up and placed to safe keeping. Edward followed some few and when they entered the King’s Lodgings, there they found the very Lord Rivers with his wife and daughters.

Seven in all ranging from maiden to young babe, the Baron stood from his table with knife in hand, “What is the meaning of this?!”

“The Lord of Warwick would like a word,” a soldier announced.

Jacquetta stood close to her husband with arms to her daughters, “You speak to a Duchess, sirs!”

Edward was the one to answer, “So many titles, m’lady. We shall have to work that out in time.”

“This is an outrage!” Lord Rivers protested, “My son will soon return with Sir Gervase and Sir John and you will be right out!”

The older soldier sneered, “I think not that you will find them, m’Lord. The Earl of Warwick wished his prize and I think to bring him much more than that.”

Edward noticed the girls hovering about their mother in fear and especially the eldest. She was older than he but so beautiful. Tall but with dainty features to her face. He laughed because she rather resembled the very Queen.

“What is it that you find so humorous, sir?!” Jacquetta showed scorn.

The disguised Earl merely shifted to the eldest daughter and smiled, “Don’t be scared. We are here to protect you.”

Lord Rivers showed bluster, “This is an act against the King of England, sirs! It will not stand!”

Edward held tightly to the daughter’s hand and looked to the Baron, “Be not afeared, sir. We will do you no harm. We are here to see you to safety. The Lord of Warwick would have an audience and...your ships are taken.”

“I know you!” Rivers exclaimed.

“I think not,” Edward answered as he looked to the Baron’s daughter, “Yet I would like to know you.”

She stood tall in an indignant tone, “I do not think it proper, sir.”

“Then we shall have to remedy that,” said Edward in reply.

His cohort shouted to all, “Round them up! The Earl will have a feast tonight.”

As they were all led from the room, Edward held back and pulled Lord River’s daughter to him, “What is your name?”

“Elizabeth, sir,” she remained obstinate, “And you are no gentle man!”

“I’d like to be...” Edward smiled, “...I’d like to be with you.”

Elizabeth sneered, “You are a cad and worse! You would imprison my family and hope to lay with me?! I am a married woman, sir! And my husband will return presently!”

“I should hope it...” Edward grinned, “...for I should like to have some words with him. To leave such a maiden as you so alone? Tis outrageous! And not terribly thoughtful.”

“What will you do with us?” she asked with worry.

Edward smiled again, “You shall be kept in the best of care. My Lord of Warwick is most kind and respects your father.”

‘How would you know?” she pulled away to follow the others, “You are but a simple soldier.”

The young Earl watched Elizabeth leave the house and stepped after her with a smirk to his face. Another soldier moved to his side and laughed, “The Earl will be happy with this catch. Quite a few big fish.”

“Yes...indeed he will,” Edward matched the laugh, “A very attractive catch, I should think.”

“Ah! But look there!” the other announced as he moved to join his fellow soldiers.

A group of riders entered the town from the west and Dynham’s forces were quick to apprehend them. Edward was just as quick to join in. At their lead was a handsome young knight about his own age. The young Earl was the first to him, “I think you late to the party, sir.”

“What is all this?!” the man said, “Where is my father?!”

Sir John Dynham stepped from the crowd of his soldiers, “You would be Anthony Woodville, yes?”

“I am,” he stated, “And Sir John of Groby follows me!”

“Not yet,” Edward suggested.

“You do foul by taking this port!” Anthony announced to them all.

Dynham smiled, “Nay, sir. I do well by my Lord.”

As he was hauled away to the waiting ships, Edward stepped in turn, “I think to have met your sister this day, sir.”

“And you are a beast!” Anthony suggested as he struggled against the soldiers.

Edward grinned as he pointed, “We shall see when we have crossed the Channel.”

In all, nearly three hundred were transported back to Calais to await their fate at the hands of the Earl of Warwick. Among them were Lord Rivers himself, his wife the Duchess Jacquetta and both his many daughters and his son Anthony Woodville. And, more importantly, Warwick had regained his ships to Sandwich. That was the true prize.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
With a bit of luck, the Woodvilles in general and Elizabeth in particular may take a deep dislike of Edward, Duke of March.

Good, good.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
:pGetting back up to speed again after you went back to warp factor 5! :D
Yet it makes some sense in this world that Charles might hope to pull France closer as a tributary state and perhaps use England as a tie that binds. I should note that another slight aspect of this is entirely of this world - Louis' son IRL was Charles who would become Charles VIII.
Nice to see the frisson of alt-history excitement here and a reminder that, despite adhering so far mainly to the historical arc, there is the promise of forks in the road ahead.
I just enjoyed getting these four guys in a room and hashing it out.
I could tell. :)
I rather liked that jibe myself. :p
Ditto.
Would the readers stay with me long enough to get to the real alternative history?
Clearly, yes, even if it’s sometimes a stern chase. ;)
The changes are slight here and there or in the background often, but it is there. However, when we really diverge...you will know. ;)
Looking forward to it. More to follow later.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I was going through picking out the great lines, but then realised I was going to end up quoting half the chapter. Edward should definitely be sent out undercover more often if this is the dialogue that results.

That said I think my absolute favourite line was;
“The Lord of Warwick would like a word,” a soldier announced.
Because it comes with such classic gangster polite understatement. It needed Edward to follow up "The Lord of Warwick hears you've been a very naughty boy Rivers, he is... disappointed in you.", but then I suppose this would be a very different sort of work if he did.

In any event, another excellent chapter and not just because of seeing the Woodville's humbled, though that is a sight to warm anybody's heart. ;)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: