Fb-fb:
If nothing else, the money every lord will earn in looting and pillaging a pathetically weak France and possibly regaining a ton of land there, as well as in the Isles...that should sway a lot of nobles. Certainly most who sit in parliament.
Given a lot of the anger a lot of the queen's lot have with York is actually amtowards the men who follow him...Warwick may well find himself kingmaker one day and in the stocks the next.
Given some of the conversation, I cannot say one way or the other about Warwick. He is playing his historical role, but I should not speak of his end at this date.
And we hope it does not become
an own goal!
Aye, there’s the rub. It is not a zero sum game.
Let us hope he chose … wisely.
First, lovely
Last Crusade reference. Tis one of my favorite quotes (or the reverse...
poorly.)
And really pleased you highlighted that line. In all of this, Richard has his own trauma (if you will) in that he loves the King even if he hates what is around him. What to do about it? That has rather been the story, but this fundamental thing is paramount. Don't hate the player, just hate the game? Richard has been doing that for nearly a decade by now. By this decision (or at least his suggestion of it) he has really turned a corner. Yet what to do when he himself is confronted with this ultimate choice? Is it ambition over honor? Is it ultimately ambition? The choice Richard makes is not a snap of the finger. It could change his entire world.
Richard has a point about Henry's support, but the Yorkists can always point out that the current king never actually did much ruling. Appealing to Margaret's effective authority and noting how bad that is might get them a lot of support.
Also, finally! York is considering claiming the crown!
I don't want to get too far ahead, but while Henry's rule has been a disaster in many ways (loss of France, angry merchants in London and especially those getting the spoils of royal preference), many have actually prospered under his reign due to his lax attention. Do they believe the rumors? Possibly. But the nut is coming in and...
The thing is, Henry is one of those people who might genuinely abdicate voluntarily, and people would believe it. If he goes off to a monastery, and the Queen is executed for treason, I think most in the know would accept it.
The problem is the rival heir...however WE know it is a bustard born of Somerset, and so do several others in universe. And many more have their suspicions. Including the actual king of England.
Entirely possible...let's call this the 'golden ending', that York becomes king, Warwick is scapegoated and killed to appease the Lords who hate him, Duke of Somerset learns of his father's child with the Queen and throws in with York, King Henry willingly abdicated upon being defeated and admits his child is not his, the Queen also confesses (perhaps angrily in court or parliament...whatever) and is executed...
Pretty much all problems solved, and the only potential rival claimants left is the one tudor brother and his nephew, Henry.
You keep speaking of this Tudor savoir. I do not know who you mean unless it is the little baby boy of Margaret Beaufort right now.
Again not wanting to give away spoilers, I do not think that is a bad look for Henry. I agree, he would be accepted by all if he renounced the crown but
@El Pip speaks to it below. Honor is involved. And he is God's anointed. If God chose Henry for this role...who is he to turn against God?
Finally, I know the term "buster" from the amazing TLC's "No Scrubs" (look it up, sir) but I've yet to encounter a bustard. That said, if he is the child of Margaret of Anjou and the late Duke of Somerset, he has a name to live up to.
Is York finally going for the crown?
Really?
Too good to be true.
I figured amongst our Yorkists that you would approve. I was quite happy to get to this point in the writing myself.
[Actual post has been redacted heavily to avoid unnecessary world-war-of-keyboards]
Why redact? Why a war of keyboards? If you've got something to say, then by God say it. And then I will react and answer. And so...
Have been avoiding to comment due to own obsessive re-reading marathon, but going back-and-forth is inevitable, since coz1 shifted the gear to hyper-drive.
This is almost too kind! If I have you popping back and forth to keep up with my marathon pace, then it means that I am constructing something complex and you want to drill down into the details. I really thank you for this!!
And I
have gone into hyper drive with the writing. More below.
But due to the other comments becoming more as if an episode from Cunk on Britain, here now for a quick-check-around.
Meh.
First, I've never seen the
Cunk series though have heard about it. Not sure what it is about. Yet my second thought echoes the Bishop of Durham...
"My God...a Lancastrian on Council!!"
Richard the dictionary definition of idiot of York will go for it; as a more energetic sovereign, pfffft with plenty of good and honest heirs, yeah good king my ar err... reynolds number.
good, honest, kind, etc. such adjectives are invalid to be used for aristocracy, nobility, monarchy, the cancer of the human-kind.
It is already 1460; at this point one can only wait for the end of the year so York can exit the scene - as a carcass in a ditch around Wakefield. Apologies - a good, honest, kind, noble carcass.
Errr... wait -
<filcat realises once again that it is not history, but an aar-story by coz1, a turbo-writer>
- York... York will exit the scene, right?
<as a reader, filcat gasps and grasps the situation - being at the mercy of the writer of the story>
It's OK not to like Richard. Not many people do. Thus his troubles. He has the right of it but not the support. Yet then you highlight your distaste of "aristocracy, nobility, monarchy, the cancer of the human-kind" and now I am unsure which one of these folks you might get behind. It's a large cast to be sure. Let me know which you think may be pure.
RIGHT?!
[Well, at least tried to redact most of it. Whatever.]
Redacted or not, Bert always makes me laugh. That damned unibrow! Does Ernie shave it for him?
New note for you fellow...coz loves muppets. Not puppets! Just Muppets.
I don't think he's going to die anticlimacticly in a ditch, no.
It's not in a ditch. I can tell you that much.
I will admit that I am very clouded by reading of OTL histories. For Margaret, I want her in a nunnery. For Richard, death before the throne. Cecily must not even become queen-mother. Sacrifice her, when Richard invades. Battle royal between Yorkists sons. I like Warwick so maybe partnering with Jasper to install Henry VII to end fraternal bloodshed. York must be hated or feared by other barons, otherwise he would be top advisor. Thanks
As I was worried about tracking too closely to history when I wrote this, I worried about this too. Those that know have already made their choices already. No matter how it came out, they know who they support. It's actually one of the more fascinating things about the period. It was over 500 years ago and people still think about what it was, why and would could be. Obviously I am one of those.
I cannot promise to give you your wishes, but I can promise to try and honor these people as characters.
On the actual chapter, good to see York finally making a decision and recognising it is not the easy option. He has made many enemies and not enough friends, I've no doubt Warwick (and some cash) can rustle up some more allies but many more will remain implacably opposed to Richard even if they have severe doubts about the current King.
That said I agree with others that given his actions and personality people would actually believe Henry retiring to a monastery, he probably even wants to do it himself but feels tied by duty to the throne (even if he is barely reigning most of the time). Shouldn't take much to convince him that he has a higher duty to the country and he best serves the realm in prayer. Whether this can actually be achieved probably depends on what happens to Margaret and the false heir.
"...feels tied by duty to the throne..."
Yes! Please readers...do not forget this. It's the 15th century. Kings don't just
step away because they feel like it. Especially not this one that believes so strongly in the divine intervention. If a King abdicates at this date, they are forced to do so.
It would be a bold authorial choice certainly, but I could see it working.
It's the sort of thing I would do, followed by a chapter with everyone reflecting on the futility of the past x number of years and the waste of it all.
Presumably where 'everyone' is the readership?
LOL.
To all - Great thoughts and assumptions/desires offered. I love it! I thought the above scene might light a torch in some and certainly hit an active nerve. It did me when I wrote it some three...four months ago? It was a moment in the narrative that I had been waiting for and to finally get there! As I've stated...there are more than a few coming up that I have been planning for over two years. I do hope that each one takes you on a twist or a turn. I've stuck closely with history up to this point, but things are about to get...no, no...no spoilers! You'll have to read it.
[You too @filcat!]
I will say also that the scene above was written just before my 50th birthday. While I had begun the next scene to follow, I recovered for the next week more or less.
I was not quite sure where to go with it and assumed I would figure it out. I was on a roll. Right? Sadly, as some of you may know, I lost a very good friend of mine at the end of that week. You may look back within this thread to see what I said about it, but writing became very difficult at that moment. Yet here I am presenting stuff written before and so ready to present a lot more in the after!
I'm just going to say this...Wait.
Please wait.
Count ten...think outside of your usual box...consider those around you and not just what they do for you, yet what you do for them...
Just wait. See how it goes. It's a game, right? It could go tits up or you could beat the BWB.
I do not wish to be flippant about it, but those who know me know that I have a sense of humor. I miss my friend. He is gone. I am writing this story again and that I will do. I'll scare some of you to know that I have played up until 1492.
A lot happens between now and then. And if you think it is what you already know...then keep reading. Please.
