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Tinto Maps #13 Maghreb Feedback

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ZigTheNorweigan said:
@Pavia is it possible if we can get a look at the areas south of Morocco in the Sahara or is that for another feedback map like West Africa?
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We will finish the Saharan connectors review with the West African map review.
 
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Pavía said:
Monarchy... Which one would you suggest?
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In my opinion, a tribe makes the most sense, but as others have said it was an elective theocracy. Can we have an elective tribal theocracy?

The Mzab Imamate is descended from the Rustamid state which was partially dissolved and dispersed well before the start date, but some political authority and centralization was still retained.
 
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Also is Touat supposed to represent the entity led by the current Marinid Sultan, Abu al-Hasan Ali ibn Othman's brother? Who was named Abu Ali
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fraughtGYRE said:
In my opinion, a tribe makes the most sense, but as others have said it was an elective theocracy. Can we have an elective tribal theocracy?

The Mzab Imamate is descended from the Rustamid state which was partially dissolved and dispersed well before the start date, but some political authority and centralization was still retained.
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I dont think they should be refered to as tribal and I make that statement on the grounds of this paragraf from The Mzab by E A Alport:

The Mozabites are peculiar in several respects. They represent a small Berber island in
a vast Arab sea; they are the only city-dwellers in the Sahara; they practise a fierce and
exclusive form of Islamic puritanism, not unlike that of the Wahabi of Arabia, but in an
urban and not a tribal frame of society; and they have kept their institutions intact, only
giving up their political status as independent republics and becoming part of the territory
of Algerian France.

 
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Pavía said:
Yes, exactly.
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Oh i see then i think the dynasty should probably be changed back to Marinid seeing as he was his brother and all unless im mistaken. Am i also right to assume they are at war with the main Marinids like Tlemcen is?

Additionally i thought Abu Ali the rebellious brother was supposed to be based out of Sjiilmassa but it doesent seem like he owns the location?
 
Is it just me who feels this way, but the areas in the Maghreb are huge? Al-Adna has 14 provinces and Al-Aqsa has 16 provinces. I could at least divide these two areas into two parts.
 
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ZigTheNorweigan said:
Oh i see then i think the dynasty should probably be changed back to Marinid seeing as he was his brother and all unless im mistaken. Am i also right to assume they are at war with the main Marinids like Tlemcen is?

Additionally i thought Abu Ali the rebellious brother was supposed to be based out of Sjiilmassa but it doesent seem like he owns the location?
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Oh, I meant Tafilalt, not Touat, which already is shown as part of the Marinid dynasty.
 
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Also i hope the Banu Riya will be shown they supposedly controlled the region between Bejala and Guelma

Also sorry if im being a bit nitpicky but maybe i was mistaken but i dont think i saw the leader of Gafsa Abu I Abbas (the son of the Hafsid sultan who delegated the city of Hafsa to him after its conquest) in the new characters tab. Also is the "mor_abu_ali_omar" supposed to represent the rebellious Abu Ali or is that someone else?

Also another minor nitpick (sorry) im assuming Tuzir and Nafta are supposed to represent Tozeur and Nafta which i mentioned before. Atleast based of google maps. Nafta seems a tad bit to east in the Tinto maps representation of it.
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Thanks alot for your hard work!
 
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Pavía said:
Oh, I meant Tafilalt, not Touat, which already is shown as part of the Marinid dynasty.
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I'm not sure if this would be better in the Iberia feedback, but there was also a Marinid appanage in Iberia ruled by Abu Malik Abd al-Wahid, who styled himself as the King of Ronda. I also remember reading somewhere that this "Kingdom of Ronda" lasted until the 1400s when it became a part of Granada again
 
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For all the smaller states with the odds stacked against them or the larger states that will struggle to not collapse from within, it seems to me right now that Tlemcen will be one of if not the hardest start in the game. I can already imagine some achievements being centered around it and will hope that we hear more about it soon!

Otherwise, I'm glad to see the Guanche SoP and will hope to see the harbor changes soon too. I would think that Tunis, Tangier, Ceuta, and Melilla/Nador would be considered good ones.
 
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Pavía said:
Cold Arid mostly identifies the Köppen-Trewartha BWK climate, 'Cold Desert climates': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_climate#Cold_desert_climates

We´re using the 1901-1925 dataset as a reference, as suggested when we started with Tinto Maps by @Sulphurologist , as apparently, it's the closer climate dataset to that of existing in 1337. This climate dataset is not the same as that we're experiencing nowadays.
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Doesn't the Koppen climate system distinguishes between full-on Desert climates (both hot and cold) and Semi-Arid ones, (also divided in hot and cold) to represent the transition zones from Desert areas to non-Desert ones. I think the issue that arises with how PC does climate is that it can't quite distinguish between the Gobi Desert and cold Eurasian steppes that are both cold and arid, but one is much more inhospitable and drier than the other. Or, like in this case, between the actual Sahara Desert and the semi-arid zones that exist between the Mediterranean Coast and the Sahara.
 
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viola said:
Doesn't the Koppen climate system distinguishes between full-on Desert climates (both hot and cold) and Semi-Arid ones, (also divided in hot and cold) to represent the transition zones from Desert areas to non-Desert ones. I think the issue that arises with how PC does climate is that it can't quite distinguish between the Gobi Desert and cold Eurasian steppes that are both cold and arid, but one is much more inhospitable and drier than the other. Or, like in this case, between the actual Sahara Desert and the semi-arid zones that exist between the Mediterranean Coast and the Sahara.
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I think this is where vegetation comes into effect, gobi desert eill have cold arid climate and desert vegetation, on the other hand, steppes have sparse or even grassland

I mean right now Egypt has arid climate but it is full of farmlands, so arid climate or cold arid doesnt just mean it is inhospitable, we will see the modifiers tomorrow anyways
 
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Making the case for Ghat as a polity ruled by the Ihadjenen Dynasty. Most sources apparently date its founding to around the late 13th century and the early 14th century

It was already an existing town by that point and was also mentioned by Ibn Battuta

It was said to have been founded by the Ihadjenen Dynasty
Who was the leader at the time is relatively unclear but some of the sources list a genealogical line of rulers so it could be any one of the earlier ones
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Sources
pdfcoffee.com

Etude Sur Le Dialecte de Ghat - Nehlil 1909 - PDFCOFFEE.COM

ÉTUDESUR LEDIALECTE DE GRATPARNEHLIL OFFICIER-INTERPRÈTE DE DU SERVICEnesAFFAIRES2'CLASSE INIlIGÈNES...
pdfcoffee.com pdfcoffee.com

Le dernier rapport d’un européen sur Ghât et les Touareg de l’Aïr | Project Gutenberg

readingroo.ms readingroo.ms
 
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