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Why does team size affect hitting the button to make the branch that you're currently testing a public beta? From my understanding all it does is create a separate beta branch with the patch that you're currently working on. I've seen games with solo indie devs use the beta branch!
Manor Lords for an example. A genuine question: Could Paradox explain for game dev noobs like us why 1 guy can release experimental branch but CO can’t? If it’s marked clearly as one, I would like to just drip in and provide feedback to help improve the game.
 
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I appreciate the news, usually the industry taxes are broken or that you have no real ability to change something with taxes.
I am glad there are changes in place to replace the current system which would make things easier with actually being able to change things for the better.

No more bugged economy, no more demand spikes or sharp declines as it would be managed by the city planner.
This is all very exciting.
 
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Here's a summary of what I've read so far: We're expecting an update to the economic system by June 19 at the latest, but the specifics are still unknown. The release of the Creator Packs has been delayed again, and we still don't have a confirmed date. It seems unlikely that the console version will be released in October as they promised before. Additionally, the CO team will be on vacation in July and August, so we shouldn't expect any significant updates this summer. Interestingly, most of the comments praise CO's "transparency," which makes me wonder if questioning the slow and inefficient progress of CO's development is seen as harsh and toxic. Anyway, thanks for the precious information provided.
 
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Manor Lords for an example. A genuine question: Could Paradox explain for game dev noobs like us why 1 guy can release experimental branch but CO can’t? If it’s marked clearly as one, I would like to just drip in and provide feedback to help improve the game.
Manor Lords hasn't been a solo development for quite some time. After Greg raised funds via crowd funding and got a grant from the Epic MegaGrants program he's had at least seven contractors working for him. Not 30, but not far short of CO back in the early CS1 days.
 
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Manor Lords hasn't been a solo development for quite some time. After Greg raised funds via crowd funding and got a grant from the Epic MegaGrants program he's had at least seven contractors working for him. Not 30, but not far short of CO back in the early CS1 days.
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated as I honestly don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. Still tho, I’m scratching my head abit as to why they are not willing to release an experimental branch. More feedback would fit their proposals of better communication and allow people to provide proper feedback before a patch is released.
 
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PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Do NOT forget about VANILLA players! What made CS1 so great was how much fun the base game was. Mods are cool and all, but I think a lot of players watched YouTube videos and became infatuated with decorating and mods. CS1 was great by itself.

Even now that mods are available I haven't used ANY other than downloading new maps. CS2 has a lot of potential. Please don't mess it up by forgetting about us vanilla players. At the end of the day, us vanilla players are the ones you need to be making happy.

This I agree with 100% I actually preferred to play CS1 in vanilla. I found it a fun challenge to make a city with the tools given to us. So anything added to the base game makes me happy.
 
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Manor Lords for an example. A genuine question: Could Paradox explain for game dev noobs like us why 1 guy can release experimental branch but CO can’t? If it’s marked clearly as one, I would like to just drip in and provide feedback to help improve the game.
Manor Lords definitely isnt 1 guy going through Beta Feedback all alone. Come on, you cant seriously believe that.

You need people to actually read all that feedback, test to reproduce, classify severity, then take time off a programmer or scripter to actually implement a fix. All of this requires resources.
 
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Here is why I don't think this is "transparency":

1. This is the first real word we've gotten on anything in a month. One communication a month is not being open and transparent.
I agree that this isnt the most ultra-transparent message and still phrased cautiously on details. But come on, how are monthly communications on a product you bought "not enough"? There are tons of games out there that only communicate once a month or even every two months. Do you want to read actual updates about the game or daily night-time stories?
 
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Everybody is praising this as "transparency".

I guess we have different definitions of transparency.

Here is why I don't think this is "transparency":

1. This is the first real word we've gotten on anything in a month. One communication a month is not being open and transparent.

2. This post, I'm almost 100% sure, is a direct result of conversation in the Way Forward thread where several of us yesterday and the day before were upset at the lack of communication. A month ago we were told a new patch would come in "about a month". Well, it's been "about a month", and we were looking for updates- and basically being told there's nothing to say and nobody can be sure of anything. This post is a result of that upset. The window was not transparent until we banged on it and somebody opened it up.

3. As stated, a month ago we were told to expect a patch in "about a month". Tomorrow it will have been 1 month. If you set an ETA, and then that ETA approaches, and the ETA is changing...transparency is communicating that it has changed...ahead of time. Saying the literal day before it's been a month and people are gonna start wondering what the arrival time is is not being transparent. Being transparent would be making this post a week and a half ago, when they surely knew we would not be getting a patch in "about a month".

4. This is the second major post that they have not put on one of those big cards at the top of the page. The Way Forward post and this post are not in the big "Here's a big announcement about the game!" section at the top of the screen, as if they're embarrassed of them and don't want as many eyes on them. That's DEFINITELY not transparency.

5. As usual, all timeframes given are so broad they may as well be meaningless. "June 3rd-19th" is the estimate for the next patch even though the last estimate means it should've been ready within 7 days from today. "Q4". "Some time after september". These aren't transparent timelines. They're vague estimates that, as history has shown us, are almost certainly going to be missed. Has a single thing this company has said was coming actually come out when they said it would the first time? I don't think it has, so why would that change now? There's no reason to believe any estimates given are actually going to be correct.

Transparency is proactive, not reactive.

Transparency is letting us know EXACTLY what you're working on. EXACTLY what you're changing with the economy simulation. What you INTEND to do, whether it ends up happening or not. What MIGHT and SHOULD be in the upcoming patch and how far along you estimate things are.

I mentioned this in the linked thread, but The Sims does something called a Laundry List, where they detail which specific bugs they are almost certain are gonna be fixed in the next patch. Then the patch comes out and it has those fixes, and more. There's no reason you can't do something similar. In fact, they just announced another list today, alongside an effort to do 6 straight months fo additional bug fixes using an outside company's assistance. Something to consider imitating, I think, because this game is in a far, far worse state than Sims 4 is.

Transparency is not responding to people 2 days before you're gonna be nearing a deadline with "We have nothing to say at this time" or "You guys misinterpreted what I meant when I said about a month, seems you thought I meant less than a month" (This is paraphased, but it is something that was said to us in the linked thread).

Transparency is not radio silence until people start getting upset again.

Arguably, "Hey just a heads up after this patch don't expect a word from us until somewhere around mid september probably when we come back from our state mandated vacation from all the work we are supposedly doing but just can't show you or talk about but just trust us we're totally doing tons of work but it's not far enough along for us to have ANY confidence in telling you about because we don't want to make promises even though it's been a month and we definitely should have something to show by now" is a form of transparency, but several bullet points of "We missed the mark on this and it will be late, and on this, and on this, and this other thing, all late, again, sorry" is not transparency.

It's just failure to meet basic expectations, that this company itself has set, again.

That you guys see "BTW, we're delaying assets AGAIN and we're delaying the asset editor AGAIN" and go "Wow! Transparency, yay!" is....ugh. I wish I could have that optimism, I guess.

I fully agree.

I'm surprised to see an overflowing enthusiasm in most of the comments, I would like to be positive like many of you but I just can't do it.

The communication is fine, but it should also be the minimum after all the previous disasters...Furthermore, I see communication that is in any case inconclusive, quite vague and not very specific, where practically the only certain thing is that everything is terribly late, for once again, everything has been moved forward in time without any certainty...

The game has monstrous shortcomings and gaps, and now, barring miraculous shocks, almost 1 year has passed since its release...Give me some of your optimism, because I really can't find it...
 
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I'll be surprised if this patch doesn't end up coming out until October or later. Maybe even next year.

That the company is using valuable resources on console development with the game in the state it launch at, is a poor look to the people who have already spent their hard earned money for a game that came out 7 months ago where little has been done to improve it for existing owners.
 
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how are monthly communications on a product you bought "not enough"?

You realize this game used to get weekly communications?

I think if you do some careful math you might find out that we are getting 20% of the communication we used to be, after two separate promises for more and better communication.

And that's not getting into how every single time we get communication, it says "Actually, wait, ignore the last thing we said last time- we changed our minds on that one."

For example:

1716504819247.png

1716504835068.png


The Way Forward: "There is no planned delay for the creator packs. We barely have to do any work on them."
This post: "We have delayed the creator packs, but don't worry- We still barely have to do any work on them."

Do you consider reneging on every single thing they say every single time to be good communication? Do you consider this trustworthy? Do you think it's an improved form of engagement with the community?
 

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What I take from this "update":
1. More delays (for no reason... we ultimate edition buyers already paid for this postponed content)
2. We are working on stuff but only give abstract information without concrete details on what we are doing, but we do dedicate an entire section to how we value player feedback; just not you, reader, but fickle influencers and modders who barely have time to actually play and do not play vanilla.

Edit: autocorrect typo

100% this.

I was just wondering how a post could possibly be this long, yet somehow contain literally zero concrete information. This is the vaguest update I've ever seen.

I also think it's hilarious that they're like, "we worked with the community!"
"three youtubers who stream our content."
 
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View attachment 1137537

Hello Cities Mayors,
We wanted to provide you with an update on the status of our upcoming patches and content.

Economy Re-work
The initial implementation of the economy re-work is done, and the patch is currently being polished. Our internal team, along with feedback from our Beta group, indicates we are heading in the right direction, and we are excited to share it with you soon. This patch will not address everything, but to ensure it meets the expectations of our wider community, we want to give it a few more weeks so we can take action on more of the feedback we have received from the Beta group. The goal of the patch is to address the community feedback we have received in regards to the economy; increase the importance of managing the economy, increase the challenge, and make it clearer to the player how the economy is affected by your choices. Currently, we aim to release the patch in the window June 3rd - June 19th and we will be detailing the update further in upcoming Dev Diaries.

Upcoming Creator Packs
As a result of this extended feedback and adjustment period for the economy patch, the Creator Packs will be pushed to post-summer. Even though the Creator Packs require relatively little time for implementation from Colossal Order, we want to make sure the upcoming economy patch has the intended result, and that we have time to also evaluate your feedback before we release any new paid content. This means we will move the Creator Packs to release after the summer lock.

What is "summer lock"?

In accordance with Swedish and Finnish vacation laws and union agreements, both Paradox Interactive and Colossal Order observe a general holiday period during the month of July and parts of August, where employees have the right to four consecutive weeks of vacation. This means that our staffing levels are reduced on both the development and publishing side. Therefore, we avoid scheduling any updates during this time period. As there is always a potential risk when patching a game, we always want to have the necessary personnel available in case any critical bug is introduced so we can fix it within a reasonable timeframe. Hence, we do not plan for patches or updates in the month of July or early August.

Upcoming Patches
The patch, scheduled for release soon, primarily focuses on the economy. However, there are some other requested improvements included such as an update to the building upgrade system. This means you will be able to place building upgrades more freely around the main buildings and also delete and move specific upgrades. We will provide detailed patch notes in connection to the patch as usual.

The next patch, expected after summer, will introduce some free content and other frequent requests, such as new service buildings and vehicles, as well as the addition of a surface tool to allow more freedom to paint the areas around buildings. We are also making progress with the technical difficulties that are blocking the release of the asset editor; we cannot confirm if it will be ready for the first patch after summer, so no promises just yet, but we are doing everything we can to make it so.

Consoles
We had a Beta build delivery at the end of April which has undergone extensive performance and stability tests. These results showed that we are not hitting the stability and performance targets that we want to reach. Fixing these crashes and improving the FPS is the highest priority when it comes to the console builds. The development team is working diligently and has already fixed some of the issues from these tests, and we still hope we can keep the timeline for an October release. But, to set expectations, the window for an October release is shrinking and it might have to be delayed further.

Player Feedback
We have two groups testing our patches and providing valuable feedback before public release: a long-standing group of dedicated modders and a newer group of community representatives and prominent modders who joined through the application process last year. We recently held a more intimate meeting with representatives from the community, who shared their insights and conveyed those of their follower base, on what they wish to see in the game. Once the economy patch is out, we will also launch a survey to gather feedback from you, the broader community. This will ensure that we understand your experience and continue heading in the right direction. We are also continuously reading posts you share on our official channels and we appreciate all the good and constructive feedback we have received over the past few weeks.
Thank you for being a part of our community and for your continued passion for Cities: Skylines II. Stay tuned for further updates on the economy patch and the timeline for upcoming patches and new content.

// The Cities Team
 
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PLEASE sneak in metro crossings into this next patch! I can live without elevated metro for a few more months, but I'm getting a bit impatient with metro crossing not existing for roads. Many of us use metro as a form of Light Rail Transit when above ground.

Other than that, look forward to the next patch. Thank you for being transparent.
 
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This has been a COLOSSAL apology since the release of the trailer announcing CS2. Making everyone believe it would be running on Unreal Engine 5. We are way passed the release date and here we are still discussing delays and in-game systems still not working properly no projection times and not only is the console version not available still, which I'm going to assume we will receive an official announcement with yet another apology regarding your October 24 release date being delayed.
All of this has to be a teachable moment. My only question to everyone is,
What have we learned...?
 
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I agree that this isnt the most ultra-transparent message and still phrased cautiously on details. But come on, how are monthly communications on a product you bought "not enough"? There are tons of games out there that only communicate once a month or even every two months. Do you want to read actual updates about the game or daily night-time stories?
Most of those other games aren't in a state that would warrant more frequent updates. And if they are, they should too up their frequency.
 
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View attachment 1137537

Hello Cities Mayors,
We wanted to provide you with an update on the status of our upcoming patches and content.

Economy Re-work
The initial implementation of the economy re-work is done, and the patch is currently being polished. Our internal team, along with feedback from our Beta group, indicates we are heading in the right direction, and we are excited to share it with you soon. This patch will not address everything, but to ensure it meets the expectations of our wider community, we want to give it a few more weeks so we can take action on more of the feedback we have received from the Beta group. The goal of the patch is to address the community feedback we have received in regards to the economy; increase the importance of managing the economy, increase the challenge, and make it clearer to the player how the economy is affected by your choices. Currently, we aim to release the patch in the window June 3rd - June 19th and we will be detailing the update further in upcoming Dev Diaries.

Upcoming Creator Packs
As a result of this extended feedback and adjustment period for the economy patch, the Creator Packs will be pushed to post-summer. Even though the Creator Packs require relatively little time for implementation from Colossal Order, we want to make sure the upcoming economy patch has the intended result, and that we have time to also evaluate your feedback before we release any new paid content. This means we will move the Creator Packs to release after the summer lock.

What is "summer lock"?

In accordance with Swedish and Finnish vacation laws and union agreements, both Paradox Interactive and Colossal Order observe a general holiday period during the month of July and parts of August, where employees have the right to four consecutive weeks of vacation. This means that our staffing levels are reduced on both the development and publishing side. Therefore, we avoid scheduling any updates during this time period. As there is always a potential risk when patching a game, we always want to have the necessary personnel available in case any critical bug is introduced so we can fix it within a reasonable timeframe. Hence, we do not plan for patches or updates in the month of July or early August.

Upcoming Patches
The patch, scheduled for release soon, primarily focuses on the economy. However, there are some other requested improvements included such as an update to the building upgrade system. This means you will be able to place building upgrades more freely around the main buildings and also delete and move specific upgrades. We will provide detailed patch notes in connection to the patch as usual.

The next patch, expected after summer, will introduce some free content and other frequent requests, such as new service buildings and vehicles, as well as the addition of a surface tool to allow more freedom to paint the areas around buildings. We are also making progress with the technical difficulties that are blocking the release of the asset editor; we cannot confirm if it will be ready for the first patch after summer, so no promises just yet, but we are doing everything we can to make it so.

Consoles
We had a Beta build delivery at the end of April which has undergone extensive performance and stability tests. These results showed that we are not hitting the stability and performance targets that we want to reach. Fixing these crashes and improving the FPS is the highest priority when it comes to the console builds. The development team is working diligently and has already fixed some of the issues from these tests, and we still hope we can keep the timeline for an October release. But, to set expectations, the window for an October release is shrinking and it might have to be delayed further.

Player Feedback
We have two groups testing our patches and providing valuable feedback before public release: a long-standing group of dedicated modders and a newer group of community representatives and prominent modders who joined through the application process last year. We recently held a more intimate meeting with representatives from the community, who shared their insights and conveyed those of their follower base, on what they wish to see in the game. Once the economy patch is out, we will also launch a survey to gather feedback from you, the broader community. This will ensure that we understand your experience and continue heading in the right direction. We are also continuously reading posts you share on our official channels and we appreciate all the good and constructive feedback we have received over the past few weeks.
Thank you for being a part of our community and for your continued passion for Cities: Skylines II. Stay tuned for further updates on the economy patch and the timeline for upcoming patches and new content.

// The Cities Team
I have a brand new MSI laptop and the game keeps running very slow and is crashing often. My laptop is not top of the line but it should be good enough for running cities-skylines 2. You should not need a €5000 laptop for this program.

I have copied and pasted the message below. I have no idea what any of it means. please help!!! or just give me my money back.

[object Object]
IOException: Win32 IO returned 112. Path: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Cities Skylines II\[Unknown]
at System.IO.FileStream.WriteInternal (System.Byte[] src, System.Int32 offset, System.Int32 count) [0x00077] in <b89873cb176e44a995a4781c7487d410>:0
at System.IO.FileStream.Write (System.Byte[] array, System.Int32 offset, System.Int32 count) [0x00090] in <b89873cb176e44a995a4781c7487d410>:0
at Colossal.IO.AssetDatabase.StreamBinaryWriter.WriteBytes (System.Void* data, System.Int32 bytes) [0x0003d] in <fe1d2d18769949e7903cf7eb3c357d2b>:0
at Game.Serialization.WriteSystem+WriteCompressedBufferJob.Execute () [0x00037] in <24020fbca57c414fa88795539296438c>:0
at Unity.Jobs.IJobExtensions+JobStruct`1[T].Execute (T& data, System.IntPtr additionalPtr, System.IntPtr bufferRangePatchData, Unity.Jobs.LowLevel.Unsafe.JobRanges& ranges, System.Int32 jobIndex) [0x00001] in <a8fc136049044b19982b5abcb6f6b426>:0
at (wrapper delegate-invoke) Unity.Jobs.IJobExtensions+JobStruct`1+ExecuteJobFunction[Game.Serialization.WriteSystem+WriteCompressedBufferJob].invoke_void_T&_intptr_intptr_JobRanges&_int(Game.Serialization.WriteSystem/WriteCompressedBufferJob&,intptr,intptr,Unity.Jobs.LowLevel.Unsafe.JobRanges&,int)
Colossal.Logging.CustomLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Logger:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

I AM PISSED OFF!!!!!!!! I AM NOT A HAPPY CLIENT!!
 
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Yeah, because the wall of text will be covered in different dev diaries for the different sub topics - If you didn't see it here is it:

I don't expect them to describe every variable and algorithm changes. I would just like to read what these changes are about in general. Economy is a broad term under which it is very easy to both pull ine and throw out something.

This was basically a short information about the current state of development and an announcement that there will be dev diaries following until the whole patch is ready.

Also worth to mention is that "Cities: Skylines Official" is a Paradox account, not a "Colossal Order Dev" account which means it's used by PDX staff (community managers or PR) who don't have development details. They may only have received some rough information provided likely by a business owner/product management.

I think co_martsu or co_avanya will start the dev diary series next Monday, as that usually was the schedule for dev diaries.

But somehow it was possible to write about buildings upgrades and surface painter.

So, here we have a "Cities Skylines Official" account, but this account doesn't know what's going on in the "Cities Skylines" game.
I see some similarity to "Beach Properties" here. There is a beach in the name, but it generally has little to do with the beach.
;)
 
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