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Originally posted by St. Leo
Personally, I'd rather keep the two events separate but get rid of the "Vinland of All Faiths" option. I'll take your word for Leif being Catholic, so that the choices would be:
-Catholic
-Hindu
-Pagan
Actually, it might be a good idea to make them Protestant at the start since they won't be paying tithes to the pope in any case and the NA provinces won't autoconvert with Luther.

I like this idea. :)
Making them Protestant at start would simulate the severed connection with the Pope. It also works as a "neutral" religion as none of Vinland's provinces are Protestant at game start.

Havard, what do you think if they are Portestant at game start, but they get the choice of the other three religions immediately there after? If they are Catholic already, then it makes no sense for them to convert to it if they already are...

Originally posted by St. Leo
The expansion event should, at the very least, give them the location of London, Paris, Madrid, Lisboa, Rome, Constantinople, and Wien.

Can't this somehow be simulated by causing them to have a royal marriage or some other diplomatic arrangement with these countries? Wouldn't that at least reveal their capitals to them? If Vinland has any knowledge of Europe, I think it should probably only be limited to the Pope and the Scandinavian countries. And then probably only the capitals....
 
Originally posted by Havard
How about this:
- They start as good Catholics
- Some time during the first century they get a "expansion/isolation" event where choosing isolation later will give the choice of altering religions, while the expansion will lead to contact with Europe and further strengthening of the Church?

I don't think they would stay Catholic if their connection with the Pope had been severed. They could start out Hindu, then when contact with Europe is restored, then the event could trigger with the option of strengthening the church.

Originally posted by Havard
I am not too fond of those cultures you are giving out there... at least not in the first choice - what is the justification for that?

I suppose a Vinland of all faiths doesn't mean a Vinland of all cultures. :D
I admit that event needs more work, I was just throwing things together.

It would be alot easier if I knew what provinces they will have at game start, and the religion of these provinces... Have we decided on this yet?

Originally posted by Havard
The heretic command in the first action will probably not do anything - it give heretics within the religion group, and sice protestant/reformed doesn't exist yet...

That's probably right. Like I said, that event was made just before I went to bed. :d

Originally posted by Havard
I would also put Christianity over "Hindu"...(a and b)

Maybe A choice, but why both A and B?

I really didn't agree with the adopt Skraeling belief choice myself, I see that as the least likely one...
 
Originally posted by Havard
Second try on the monarchs:
Code:
## Fantasy "monarchs" for Vinland
#  by Hávarðr ölfuss ;)
#  using IDs 17000

## Eiríkrætti ##

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17000 }
	name = "Bjarni Eiríksson"
	startdate = { year = 1415}
	enddate = { year = 1430}
	DIP = 4
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 6
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17001 }
	name = "Þorvaldr helluflagi" #"surprise-attack/ambush"
	startdate = { year = 1430}
	enddate = { year = 1439}
	DIP = 5
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 4
	# Þorvaldr killed by skraelings.
}

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17002 }
	name = "Þorgerðr in fróða" # "the wise"
	startdate = { year = 1439}
	enddate = { year = 1454}
	DIP = 5
	MIL = 3
	ADM = 7
	# Widow of Þorvaldr above...
}
These are the "last in the line" of Eiríking chieftains. Now you must choose a path:
Code:
## No apparant heirs of the Eiríkings ##
#
## The Republic of Vinland (1454-1573) ##

# Merchant wing #

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17003 }
	name = "Kolbeinn hinn gamli" #"the old"
	startdate = { year = 1454}
	enddate = { year = 1492}
	DIP = 6
	MIL = 4
	ADM = 7
	dormant = no # Merchant wing default
}

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17004 }
	name = "Þórarinn inn mikli" #"The great, large"
	startdate = { year = 1492}
	enddate = { year = 1530}
	DIP = 8
	MIL = 8
	ADM = 7
	dormant = no # Merchant wing default
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17005 }
	name = "Bjórn Þórarinson"
	startdate = { year = 1530}
	enddate = { year = 1573}
	DIP = 6
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 6
	dormant = no # Merchant wing default
}
These are the "merchant rulers". They rule long (no casualties in battle here) and are relatively good. I have assumed these as the default line.
Code:
# Military wing #

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17006 }
	name = "Einarr øxnamegin" #"ox-strength"
	startdate = { year = 1454}
	enddate = { year = 1487}
	DIP = 2
	MIL = 7
	ADM = 4
	remark = "Military leader (conquistador)"
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17007 }
	name = "Þorgils ógæfa" #"the unlucky"
	startdate = { year = 1487}
	enddate = { year = 1499}
	DIP = 3
	MIL = 4
	ADM = 5
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17008 }
	name = "Ketill inn hamrammi" #"strongly-built"
	startdate = { year = 1499}
	enddate = { year = 1527}
	DIP = 2
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 3
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17009 }
	name = "Óláfr Ormsson"
	startdate = { year = 1527}
	enddate = { year = 1536}
	DIP = 2
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 3
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17010 }
	name = "Þorgrímr skinfaxi" #"shiny mane (hair)"
	startdate = { year = 1536}
	enddate = { year = 1554}
	DIP = 2
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 3
	remark = "Military leader (general)"
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17011 }
	name = "Herjólfr Arngrímsson"
	startdate = { year = 1554}
	enddate = { year = 1563}
	DIP = 2
	MIL = 5
	ADM = 3
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}
historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17012 }
	name = "Óláfr skytja" # "marksman/shooter"
	startdate = { year = 1563}
	enddate = { year = 1573}
	DIP = 3
	MIL = 7
	ADM = 6
	remark = "Military leader (general)"
	dormant = yes # Military wing - alternate line
}
These are the "warrior rulers". They rule shorter (live more dangerous ;)) and not so good. BUT you get some leaders on the bargain :)
Code:
## Branches meet here ##
#
# struggle for power with the thing

## Branches meet here ##
#
# struggle for power with the thing

historicalmonarch = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 17013 }
	name = "Herjólfr illugi"   # "bad-thought, evil-mind"
	startdate = { year = 1573}
	enddate = { year = 1621}
	DIP = 5
	MIL = 6
	ADM = 3
}
Then we have Herjólfr illugi - who tries to establish a monarchy (chieftainy)...with himself as king, of course :D

Edit: Updated..

I'm amazed you did all this already. :eek:

I've only looked over it briefly, but everything looks good. :)
Shouldn't the Military wing monarchs have higher military ratings than the merchant ones though?

Looks like Vinland will get to have every bit as much depth as the European countries. Maybe even more. It will be nice to choose for the Merchant line and get good monarchs, but no leaders if you don't particularly need the leaders. And vice versa... :)

I can work on some events later for widow and her dead husband. I already have a good detailed story in my head already... ;)
 
I have reworked the religion events significantly. I hope these look alot better. ;)

I never felt good about the first event allowing the option to accept Skraeling beleifs. I just didn't see a historical justification for that. So I created a later event for the Einarr fellow who was raised by the Indians. If he becomes king, then there is more likely of a chance such beliefs could be accepted.

Please let me know what you all think about this current situation (the first event goes under the assumption that Hindu is already the state religion, and it also assume contact with Europe has not yet been established. it will need to be changed otherwise.)

And please let me know what you think of the Einarr story I created. ;)


#
event = {
id = 100000
random = no
country = U10
name = "Contact With Europe"
desc = "Generations ago, the connection to our spiritual and ancesteral homeland was lost. Without the contact of the Pope, the strength of Catholicism in our society has dwindled. The strength of the old beliefs is as strong now as it ever was, but now contact with Europe has been restored. It was our ancestral beliefs that brought us to these shores, shall we now simply abandon them?"
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1430 }
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1450 }

action_a ={
name = "Adopt Christianity As Religion Of The State"
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 2 }
command = { type = relation which = OHI value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = NOR value = 50 }
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = LEN value = -50 }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -2 }
command = { type = conversion which = -2 }
command = { type = missionaries value = 3 }
command = { type = religion which = catholic }
}

action_b ={
name = "Stay With Our Ancestral Beliefs"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
}

action_c ={
name = "Strictly Maintain Religious Tolerance"
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 3 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -3 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = missionaries value = -6 }
}
}

#
event = {
id = 100000
trigger = { monarch = 17006 } #Einarr øxnamegin
random = no
country = U10
name = "The Heresy Of Einarr øxnamegin"
desc = "Legend tells us that the young Einarr was abandoned in the wilderness at a very young age. However, he survived, due to the fact that he was discovered by a Skraeling hunting party. The tribal Shaman knew that the young Einarr would rise to great power one day, he informed the chieftain of this. The chieftain, who himself was very old and had no heir, raised the boy as his own, in order that he may succeed him. Young Einarr soon proved himself to be an excellent hunter. His Skraeling wife complained about how he spent more time in the wilderness than he did in his own home. One day while Einarr was gone hunting, the nearby -fill in space here- tribe, struck out against Einarr's tribe. When Einarr returned, the entire village had been destroyed, all were dead except the shaman, who had been tied to a tree to be eaten alive by wild animals. Einarr freed the shaman, and together they set out in search of Einarr's real people.... Eventually, Einarr returned to Vinland, where at this time there was no king, the Queen had passed away heirless. Many believed the white man who dressed like a Skraeling was preordained by the gods to be their new ruler. Many, however, diagreed, so an election was held. Einarr eventually won, and set about ruling Vinland with all the skills he had been taught by the old Chieftain. He appointed the shaman who had travelled with him as the head of spiritual matters in Vinland. Many, however, disapproved of the adoption of Skraeling beliefs..."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1454 }
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1460 }

action_a ={
name = "Adopt Skraeling Beliefs"
command = { type = relation which = OHI value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = NOR value = -100 }
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = 100 }
command = { type = relation which = LEN value = 100 }
command = { type = stability value = -6 }
command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -2 }
command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
command = { type = religiousrevolt which = -1 }
command = { type = technology which = china }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = abenaki }
command = { type = missionaries value = -3 }
command = { type = religion which = pagan }
command = { type = vp value = 100 } #a reward for this difficult choice
}
action_b ={
name = "Stay With Our Current Beliefs"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
}

action_c ={
name = "Strictly Maintain Religious Tolerance"
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 3 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -3 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = missionaries value = -6 }
}
}
 
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Things seem to be moving slower here the last few days. But here is another event I have created for the death of king Þorvaldr helluflagi.

Comments and suggestions are welcomed, as always.... :)

Code:
event = {
	id = 100000
        trigger = {  NOT = { monarch = 17001 } #Þorvaldr helluflagi
	random = no
	country = U10
	name = "The Skraeling Ambush And The Widow's Response"
	desc = "The young Þorvaldr helluflagi grew up in the shadow of his father, the great king 
        Bjarni Eiríksson, of the long line of Eiríkssons dating back to Leif, the discoveror and 
        founder of the kingdom of Vinland. Unlike his father however, Þorvaldr was not content in 
        leaving the kingdom to it's current boundaries. Immediately after his father's death, Þorvaldr 
        established a more outward expansionist policy, he himself led several expeditions into the 
        uncharted wilderness and founded many colonies which to this day still bear his name. On one 
        such expedition he led his warriors into the hostile territory of the -fill in space here- tribe. 
        Relying on false information provided to him by his traitorous Skraeling guides, Þorvaldr was 
        fooled into believing that this part of the forest was outside of the hostile tribe's territory. 
        Indeed, he had been led into the heartland, where tribal warriors waited, anticipating his arrival.... 
        A fierce battle ensued, and despite being greatly outnumbered, the Vinlanders superior weaponry 
        and bravery eventually allowed them to claim victory. Though, in the heat of battle a Skraeling 
        arrow had punctured the lung of king Þorvaldr, he later died during his journey back to the 
        capital. With no male heir apparent, his grief stricken young wife assumed the throne (a rare 
        situation in the history of Vinland). She was a very capable ruler, having often ruled in her 
        husband's absence during his expeditions. But her thirst for revenge now blights her judgement...."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1439 }	

	action_a ={
		name = "Exterminate The Skraelings!"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 3 }
		command = { type = relation which = OHI value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUR value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = LEN value = -100 }
		command = { type = war which = OHI }
		command = { type = war which = HUR }
		command = { type = war which = LEN }
                command = { type = stability value = -3 }
                command = { type = conquistador which = -2 } 
                command = { type = INF  which = -2 value = 2000 }
                command = { type = colonists value = 6 } #Colonists feel much safer
                command = { type = MIL which = 3 value = 24 } 
                command = { type = natives which = XX value = XX } #Provinces not yet determined
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "Punish Only those Skraelings Involved"
		command = { type = war which = HUR }
		command = { type = relation which = OHI value = -50 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUR value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = LEN value = -50 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 2 }
                command = { type = sleepevent which = xxxx } #Merchants rebellion
                command = { type = colonists value = 3 } #Colonists feel safer
                command = { type = MIL which = 3 value = 12 } 
                command = { type = natives which = XX value = XX } #Provinces not yet determined
	}

	action_c ={
		name = "Maintain Peaceful Trade Relations"
		command = { type = relation which = OHI value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUR value = 20 }
		command = { type = relation which = LEN value = 30 }
                command = { type = DIP which = 2 value = 6 } 
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -3 }
                command = { type = stability value = 1 }
                command = { type = sleepevent which = xxxx } #Merchants rebellion
                command = { type = colonialrevolt which = -1 }
                command = { type = colonialrevolt which = -1 }#Colonists no longer feel safe
                command = { type = colonists value = -3 } 
                command = { type = merchants value = 6 }
                command = { type = cash value = 100 }
	}
}
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmm, wonder why that text didn't wrap to fit in the screen... oh well. :confused:


Originally posted by Languish
Without ruining the flow of the thread i'd just like to add this is coming along fantastically. Keep up the excellent work!

Thanks Languish for the support. :)
 
Here is an event for Vinland to go Outward/Inward. I copied some of the effects from the China event, so things may need to edited a little still.... And I made a little story to go with this Vinland event. :)

event = {
id = 100000
trigger = { NOT = { monarch = 17000 } #Bjarni Eiríksson
random = no
country = U10
name = "The Dreams Of Young Þorvaldr Helluflagi"
desc = "The young Þorvaldr helluflagi grew up in the shadow of his father, the great king Bjarni Eiríksson of the long line of Eiríkssons dating back to Leif, the discoveror and founder of the kingdom of Vinland. Unlike his father however, Þorvaldr was not content in leaving the kingdom to it's current boundaries. At the tender age of 7, his father brought him to the Oracle that lived in a cave atop a hill overlooking the capital. The old crone foretold that the young Þorvaldr would be killed by a 'feather of stone'. Þorvaldr of course, due to his high level of education, did not believe in prophecies. But his father always warned him to stay close to home in order to avoid the prophecy, will he listen?"
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1430 }

action_a ={ #Outward Expansion
name = "Þorvaldr Helluflagi Dreams Of Exploration"
command = { type = relation which = OHI value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = -20 }
command = { type = relation which = LEN value = -20 }
command = { type = technology which = latin }
command = { type = colonists value = 3 }
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 3 }
command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = -3 }
command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = -5 }
command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 5 }
command = { type = domestic which = MERCANTILISM value = -5 }
command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = -5 }
command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 5 }
command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = 3 }
command = { type = naval value = 2000 }
command = { type = trade value = 2000 }
}
action_b ={ #Balanced Position
name = "Þorvaldr Helluflagi Allows Others To Explore In His Place"
command = { type = relation which = OHI value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = LEN value = 20 }
command = { type = technology which = torthodox }
command = { type = colonists value = -3 }
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = MERCANTILISM value = -1 }
command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = -1 }
command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = 1 }
command = { type = land value = 500 }
command = { type = infra value = 500 }
command = { type = naval value = 500 }
command = { type = trade value = 500 }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
}
action_c ={ #Inward Perfection
name = "Þorvaldr Helluflagi Heeds His Father's Warning"
command = { type = relation which = OHI value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = HUR value = 20 }
command = { type = relation which = LEN value = 20 }
command = { type = technology which = muslim }
command = { type = colonists value = -3 }
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -5 }
command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 10 }
command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 10 }
command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -10 }
command = { type = domestic which = MERCANTILISM value = 10 }
command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = 10 }
command = { type = domestic which = QUALITY value = -10 }
command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = -10 }
command = { type = land value = 1000 }
command = { type = infra value = 1000 }
command = { type = stability value = 6 }
}
 
Originally posted by Captain Krunch
Thanks Languish for the support. :)

No problems. Its good also, to see the creation of a country and all the associated files "in action" and should serve as a handy working template to anyone considering similar ideas. Its got me thinking already ;) and some of the events are novel, and well thought out considering it is a fictional nation.

While i am at it here are some useful bits n' pieces such as this map i found:

pop_hist.jpg
 
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stop the press!!

I have found an absolutely excellent piece of source on the internet which is choc-a-block with vinlander fictional information. Rather than paste all over this thread (and trust me there are DOZENS of pages with relevant/useable information) i will link you there.

Personally i think it is superb and should not be overlooked.

Vinlanders and Skraelings RPG (runequest engine)

It contains ideas for fictional settlements, plenty of source for vinland personal names, laws, histories, pretty much everything.

Mwah ah ah :D :cool:
 
Assuming we base the vinlanders at Newfoundland (l'anse au meadows) we can assume... over the course of several centuries... that they would have eradicated the native Beothuk (the skraelings they referred to), but i see one major tribe which isnt represented (or doesnt appear to be).

Should we include another tribe?

If we were to do so, it would historically be the Micmac tribe who occupied Nova Scotia, The Gaspe Peninsula (quebec), Prince Edward Island and the eastern half od New Brunswick. Lenape, should be reduced in importance to the starting vinlanders as should huron (unless we decided to make the micmacs huron) because unless we use a greatly expanded "vinland" they simply would not be that physically proximal to them.

In my mind we need to give this some thought. The micmacs were well established and present in 1000 AD and throughout this alternate timeline to 1419 AD... even in the "real" timeline where vinland ceased to exist past that tiny settlement.

Personally, to encourage the events that have been designed, we should create a micmac "nation" based in the aptly named micmac province with territories covering those areas mentioned. Unless of course we reckon the vinlanders wiped them out...
 
Originally posted by Mad King James
I'm afraid that's somewhat well... wrong.
dots denote knowledge of, x's denote actual settlements
viking.jpg


The Vikings settled in Vinland on the NORTH tip of Newfoundland and in Markland (Labrador) The straight between Newfoundland and Labrador was thought by the Vikings to be a bay, and that Newfoundland was the bottom tip of the island (Baffin Island thought to be the top tip) again the straight between Baffin Island and Labrador thought to be a bay. (They Called Baffin Island Helluland).

Over a few hundred years, the vikings might have explored further and found out a few more sea zones, but the settlements were much closer to Greenland and certainly NOT in Quebec or Nova Scotia.

Completely in agreement and its a good picture. My view of Vinland territories is consistent with what has already been proposed, although i feel Nain (126), Caniapiscau (125) and Belle Isle (124) should be at the minimum TP's (lvl 4 ish).

They should DEFINITELY know as far south as Micmac (113) and as far down the St. Lawrence as possible to say Manicouagan (122). Given that our alternate timeline runs several centuries this would be highly likely. In fact i am starting to warm to the idea that they knew and traded with the Huron (in this timeline), by i still feel contacts/events should be more closely tied with a new Micmac tribal nation centering historically on the Gaspe' Peninsula.

Note: I am already working on including the Micmac tribe, even if only for my own self interest.

Idea: The Micmacs often had problems with their Huron Neighbours which the vinlanders could have exploited. Perhaps we could build these into the events as the vinlanders become used in sporadic tribal war as a valued partner to one tribe or another.

Micmac Holdings: This is all theory (sorry for perhaps hijacking the thread) but if they were to be included they would (historically) be centered around the micmac core province of Micmac (113) with control/possession of Gaspesie (114), Manicouagan (122), Anticosti (123), Acadia (115), and Nova Scotia (116). Being a nation bordering the Vinlanders they would naturally either become a valued ally or an obstacle to be destroyed with possible Huron assistance.
 
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Originally posted by Languish


Completely in agreement and its a good picture. My view of Vinland territories is consistent with what has already been proposed, although i feel Nain (126), Caniapiscau (125) and Belle Isle (124) should be at the minimum TP's (lvl 4 ish).

They should DEFINITELY know as far south as Micmac (113) and as far down the St. Lawrence as possible to say Manicouagan (122). Given that our alternate timeline runs several centuries this would be highly likely. In fact i am starting to warm to the idea that they knew and traded with the Huron (in this timeline), by i still feel contacts/events should be more closely tied with a new Micmac tribal nation centering historically on the Gaspe' Peninsula.

Note: I am already working on including the Micmac tribe, even if only for my own self interest.

Idea: The Micmacs often had problems with their Huron Neighbours which the vinlanders could have exploited. Perhaps we could build these into the events as the vinlanders become used in sporadic tribal war as a valued partner to one tribe or another.

Micmac Holdings: This is all theory (sorry for perhaps hijacking the thread) but if they were to be included they would (historically) be centered around the micmac core province of Micmac (113) with control/possession of Gaspesie (114), Manicouagan (122), Anticosti (123), Acadia (115), and Nova Scotia (116). Being a nation bordering the Vinlanders they would naturally either become a valued ally or an obstacle to be destroyed with possible Huron assistance.

That sounds quite interesting. At some point, Vinland could get an event on whether it wants to team up with, or destroy the Micmac. If it wants to team up with the Micmac, they should get an alliance and the Micmac could move up in tech level, possibly to muslim. This would be interesting as it would let one native american tribe survive and actually become competitive, instead of being utterly destroyed. :D
 
Originally posted by Benjamin Miller


That sounds quite interesting. At some point, Vinland could get an event on whether it wants to team up with, or destroy the Micmac. If it wants to team up with the Micmac, they should get an alliance and the Micmac could move up in tech level, possibly to muslim. This would be interesting as it would let one native american tribe survive and actually become competitive, instead of being utterly destroyed. :D

Well, IMO if Vinland was made Asabelieving in stead of Catholic, the extinction of the American Native would never occur..
They would see the "skraelings" as another nation, but not inferior to the white man..
 
Interresting... I kinda like the idea of introducing the Micmacs :)

There are a few things we should try to settle on before we progress:

The Map - known and owned provinces
I suggest the following as owned provinces:
- Gander as capital. This suits well with the position of L'anse aux Meadows, and is a logic point to use as a base. City should ne "Leifsbudir" - this is the name Leir Eiríksson gave to the place he built, according to the saga. This should be a city of ~1000 pop?
- Colony in Wabana - also in Placentia?
- TPs in Caniapiscau and Belle Isle (Markland) - the Greenlanders and Icelanders went to Markland to find timber (fits nice with the naval supplies in Caniapiscau)

On knowledge:
- I agree with Languish in that they should know at least down to Micmac. I would say they should also know Massachusets bay and possibly Penibscot or Massachusets? (The sagas tell about a southern settlement - Hóp - maybe a TP???)
- I also agree that they should know from Manicouagan and up north to Nain.
- I suggest they have knowledge of Greenland, Iceland, the sea-route to Norway and coastal areas of Western Europe ("Viking" knowledge.) This will give the Vinlanders a posibility to contact Europe, but also to stay away (since Europe have "forgotten" where they are...)

The Religion
It is fairly known that the Greenlanders that discovered Vinland were Christian. Leifr Eiríksson was baptized in Norway before he returned to Greenland and converted them. The first Church was built at the time they discovered Vinland...

So, we have (IMO) two opportunities:
- If we make Vinland Christian from the beginning of we can just forget introducing the asa-believs after we start. There is no way after 400 years as good catholics they will revert to "the old ways".
- However! - you could make a case of the fact that the settlers in Vinland were "refugees" because they didn't want to convert, making the 1419 Vinlanders asa-believers. Then you can have the possibility to accept Christianity if/when they make contact with Europeans.

I must say I find the second option most intriguing... :D
 
Havard: I like the outline..one thing; knowledge of western european coastline? Do you mean knowledge of provinces or just simply sea routes?
Yes, Leif Eriksson was baptized but what about the others? It would certainly be more fun with them asabelieving..;)
Or simply make two scenarios..
 
Good posts here...

Gandar for capital 100%, and the rest of newfoundland/vinland is populated for sure. I am kinda keen to see both Placenta and Wabana as cities, albeit small ones (say 1000+ ?), as opposed to colonies. The TP's in Helluland and Markland are perfect.

As for knowledge, i too have heard of the Hop expidition and agree. As far south as that seems logical. Dont forget to include penetration of the St. Lawrence but not the great lakes. This again would give them knowledge of Huron and with regards to other known provinces the Micmac (skraelings) and Lenape respectively.

I vote for the second option, even though the case for catholicism is strong, it makes for a more unique scenario.

Wasa - really liked your comment about the skraelings not being inferior. Sounded cool.

If no-one minds ill work on the Micmac's to flesh them out, propose their intrusion and see if anyone thinks they fit well enough. Great thread!