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Vinland Fantasy Scenario

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Well what were you suggesting???

I think for you to remain an effective part of this scenario you simply must playtest the scenario, and consistently. It shouldnt be something "up for consideration".

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
Well, it was just an idea (it is not freeciv I was suggesting, by the way).

As for playtesting, that would require playing EU2 (something I have not done for quite some time). I have been considering playing again though.
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Originally posted by Languish
Well what were you suggesting???
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"open universalis" (tentative title) of course. :)

Originally posted by Languish
I think for you to remain an effective part of this scenario you simply must playtest the scenario, and consistently. It shouldnt be something "up for consideration".
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Well, I think it has been a long time since I have been an "effective" part of this scenario...
 
That IS freeciv :p :)

I think you need to either reaffirm you commitment to this scenario or move on. It sounds harsh (sorry) but it is getting hard to deal with you half in and half out.

Originally posted by Captain Krunch
"open universalis" (tentative title) of course. :)

Well, I think it has been a long time since I have been an "effective" part of this scenario...
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Originally posted by Languish
Well that was all very nice, back to the scenario. Havard, being as you are here, any up to date comments?
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I have my notes back home and will have to get back to a full list later tonight when I get home from work. A few things I can mention:
- Exploration/colonisation: IMO the colonists come too plentyful. I have not once waited for available colonists.
- Province events: I like them :) But I think the instant free CoT i Manhattan is a bit too good - maybe delay the CoT a bit?

- The Standing Hawk (sp?) idea: I would strongly oppose any "Enlightened Native Super-State" along the lines proposed first. Peter Ebbesen gives a better solution, but I really don't see any historic justification for having e.g. the Hurons or Iroquis supporting a Micmac Liberation Front... What I'd like to see is a string of events causing troubles in any annexed tribal land - revolts, indian raids, possible regained indepencence etc. (and several events, so that it won't be enough annexing them once :D)

- European interaction events: I have already written (and posted) an event where the Vinlanders can claim the Crown of Norway if they come to possess two of the three southern Norwegian provinces (and Norway doesn't exist). This will also allow Vinland to move the capital to Norway. I don' t see the historicity (or advances) in moving to e.g. Ireland but I'll be willing to discuss that :) The way I see it should have a lot of more events to allow the Vinland player to interact in European conflicts (England-France etc) and tie-ins to the religious strifes...


I was seeing if you were interested in expanding your ToT event to include the portuguese and any vinlander holdings along the coast of brazil... interested?
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Its easy to make... I'll look into it :)
 
Exploration/Colonisation

Yes i agree... although some games they never come at all for me... perhaps a change of the starting DP sliders? This should be backed up with convenient removals of colonists in certain events to encourage a compact mercantile state (for example). Should it depend on the route you take?

CoT

I am glad you like the province events, although like Alun said, they are perhaps a little too "good". My other thought was perhaps we should remove the CoT in gander full stop then the CoT in manhattan wont be such a massive bonus?

Enlightened Native Super-State

Agreed. I like your ideas for renewed activities once you have annexed them. Also, perhaps some neighbour specific events for the few natives remaining to perhaps encourage similar events in the first place?

European Integration

The norweigan event was always in the test folder... did it work as you wanted/expected? If so i see no reason not to include it in the next release. Did you agree that iceland could be a prospective capital also (impi's idea), or just norway (i.e. a crown event)?

Thanks for adding some topics for debate ;).
 
Originally posted by Languish
Exploration/Colonisation

Yes i agree... although some games they never come at all for me... perhaps a change of the starting DP sliders? This should be backed up with convenient removals of colonists in certain events to encourage a compact mercantile state (for example). Should it depend on the route you take?
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We could take a closer look at the DPs... I started to rethink a few things there after the debates lately (like the full free serf - doesn't make sense if they keep slaves, does it?). We could also reduce colonists through religion.


CoT

I am glad you like the province events, although like Alun said, they are perhaps a little too "good". My other thought was perhaps we should remove the CoT in gander full stop then the CoT in manhattan wont be such a massive bonus?
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But then you would create a situation where the player have to expand to the south (it would be stupid to say "no thanks" to a free CoT covering the entire NA)...

I'd rather see a CoT triggered by other cicumstances, and not only for Vinland (the province/no country-specific events will work as intended for 1.06 - we can use that?)


Enlightened Native Super-State

Agreed. I like your ideas for renewed activities once you have annexed them. Also, perhaps some neighbour specific events for the few natives remaining to perhaps encourage similar events in the first place?

European Integration

The norweigan event was always in the test folder... did it work as you wanted/expected? If so i see no reason not to include it in the next release. Did you agree that iceland could be a prospective capital also (impi's idea), or just norway (i.e. a crown event)?
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I've never been in a situation to test that events :eek:

Moving to Iceland would be a logic first step when/if orienting the country more towards European politics. It makes sense to me at least :)

We should also have some more 'move capital'-events to the NA mainland. (I have a few ideas there I can spin together with what has been posted on this earlier...)


Thanks for adding some topics for debate ;).
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I try to keep up with what happends here and take some time to do some scripting or testing at times - if only the day had 36 hours (or we didn't need sleep) :p
 
DP Settings

The vinland state has a "default" 5 across the board for these, i propose the following changes.

Aristocracy of 8 (many important people, althing not fully representative)
Centralisation of 5 (some jarls, council has limited power... bowt equal)
Innovativeness of 6 (They've adapted to the native cultures)
Mercantilism of 8 (what little trade is regulated and controlled)
Offensive of 6 (slightly more offensive)
Land of 5 (neither atm, they are not "vikings" per se)
Quality of 8 (manpower is poor/low, but what troops they do have are very good fighters.)
Serfdom of 4 (some slaves, thrall and bondismen... not extensive)

If i have done my calculations correctly this should produce a -1.0 colonists figure from the outset, improvements in the slider settings or events are needed to change them and get colonists. It also seems a bit more in accordance with the vinlanders way of life (adapted of course).

Religon

Another good idea, however "hinduism" already confers no bonus. Can it be negative???

CoT

If you know the development of the scenario, true. Perhaps only for the mercantile vinland player? I have others events already in the latest release for the english, french and dutch to create it.

European Integration

I have included a greenland acquisition event, moving the capital or gaining the province of iceland needs to be handled carefully. I dont believe, unlike greenland, that you could purchase it. I think it might be more appropriate to vassalise/inherit an independant iceland... or perhaps a series of events that allow the player to trigger a revolution in order to gain a foothold.

Re: the mainland events, i saw them yes for when the micmac were conquered. Using multiple instances of province ownership should be a good enough trigger to move. It needs high stability and for the country to be at peace as well i think. The move from the 400 year old capital of leifsbudir would be an important step.

Length of Day and Sleep

I know what you mean, fortunately like now, i am free and in the mood to test and do some work.
 
Originally posted by Languish
I think you need to either reaffirm you commitment to this scenario or move on. It sounds harsh (sorry) but it is getting hard to deal with you half in and half out.
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How is it hard to deal with me
"half in"? :confused: Well, perhaps you are right... I will move on. But don't hate me for it. :)
 
Originally posted by Languish
Religon

Another good idea, however "hinduism" already confers no bonus. Can it be negative???
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Yes. So why not give them a colonists penalty just to make it more challenging for them?
 
Originally posted by Captain Krunch
How is it hard to deal with me
"half in"? :confused: Well, perhaps you are right... I will move on. But don't hate me for it. :)
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Not you, the situation... sorry i wasn't clear on that one :).

Why would i hate you :confused:

My worry is for someone who hasnt even played release 1, or some of the latter beta's, it is getting increasingly hard for you to comment accurately and as the releases get updated.

Your idea's, whilst honestly excellent, are getting further and further away from what the release currently play like. It so honestly like that. I just dont see how it is so hard to install EU2, play the latest release, even for an hour or so (i even do it hands off whilst i go cook some dinner ;) popping back to agree to event choices every now and then ) to see how things go. Posting a bug report, comments and ideas relevant to that release.

I'd hate to see you go matey, you originated this idea, and contributed massively initially. You deserve to be a considerable part of it but i cant force you ;).
 
Originally posted by Languish
Not you, the situation... sorry i wasn't clear on that one :).

Why would i hate you :confused:

My worry is for someone who hasnt even played release 1, or some of the latter beta's, it is getting increasingly hard for you to comment accurately and as the releases get updated.

Your idea's, whilst honestly excellent, are getting further and further away from what the release currently play like. It so honestly like that. I just dont see how it is so hard to install EU2, play the latest release, even for an hour or so (i even do it hands off whilst i go cook some dinner ;) popping back to agree to event choices every now and then ) to see how things go. Posting a bug report, comments and ideas relevant to that release.

I'd hate to see you go matey, you originated this idea, and contributed massively initially. You deserve to be a considerable part of it but i cant force you ;).
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Well, having to live a hotel for a month without being able to play the game was probably what caused my loss of interest. But I might pick the game up one of these days and might get myself "rehooked".

I totally understand what you mean by being unable to accurately comment on the game for not playing it so long.
 
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