Watkabaoi

[unmerged(183341)]

Swert
>An important part of learning history is learning both sides of the story. You can't simply ignore non-russian variants of russian history.

But you can simply ignore wikipedia. By the way, do we have another, neither ancient russian, source about history of Kievan Rus'? I could remember just ancient greek and arabic, but these not so reliable.

>I agree. I am not defending the map but merely answering your question.

Then thanks for reply. But map is very good. I like province "Lukomorie". You can find this in one fairytale of Pushkin.

 

[unmerged(137345)]

Is there some colourscales I didn't install? A lot of the countries have the same colour as a uncolonised province, and the terrian map is either blue or white.

Is Fantasia scenario finished/worked on?

-

 

[unmerged(183341)]

Have you ever read historical sources? Could you please show me any where Novoharodok/Navahradak is named as NovogrUdok (in Russian) prior to the 18th century?.. This is kind of absurd because there could not be original Russian language form with “-грудок” – what it means at all???

То же, что и город, груда, громада. Достаточно?


>Really, do you realize that I speak 5 East European languages -

But rus. and litv. are native for you.


> ,have a degree in history and presently PhD student in Vilnius and Sweden (even so I am not native Lithuanian)?..

Philosopher? How this makes a guru in history from you? We all know, how russophobic the history of these countries, powered by ultra-nationalism (in Pribaltika-Transbaltia and Poland) and big jealous with thirst for rus. resources (in UK, US). I could add UK, Poland, the US. Sources about history of Russia from these countries cannot be trusted. I need to know you more closely. Now my knowledge about you is close to zero, so be patient, I need time.

>and wikipedia is defiantly not any kind of “source for history” for me at all.
That's great. And I really hate all kinds of nationalistic interpretations of East European history, including those Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, Ukrainian or whatever.

That's great! But why it makes so much troubles, when I'm saying, that it has rus. name just because it was founded by rus. duke? What the problem? This city wasn't replaced or inhabited by another ethnos, it has the same geographical coordinates. It is the same city. I provided its real historical name, but this fact caused so big dispute. May be don't need to start such offtop? May be need to prove, that I was wrong with my name, instead of saying about town's owners in last 1000? I really don't get your point.


>Sorry I did not get your point? I have not said anything about ethnicity of Volhyn. I only answered your question why Lutsk is marked as the main city here…

All is good. It was an interpritation problem. I thought "Luck" = [luk].

>I agree however just simply remember this is just a game. Simplifications are simply sometimes necessary here.

Can't be disagree! Though we could provide better all together. Especially about such big things as "ruthenians", about misplaced khazarians and uzbeks (it is not small detail as Luck-Lutsk).

Hehe, YodaMaster disagree. YM, it is useful, because there is impossible to make so many provinces and regions as it was/is in reality. We can, but it would be a task for super computer, but not for home PC, as I think.

 

[unmerged(183341)]

I've been away a couple of days because of a "downgrading" to XP from Vista. And it seems a lot of stuff has happened here. Now I will try to gather the constructive critic and make some changes that I find well argumented for. I will not nor do I pretend that I know more about East Europe than some of you guys, but please as the above states this is a game and it is hard when people have many different understandings of history.

So to sum it up. I will be looking through the last 2 pages to find the changes I think should be changed based on the argumentation and my own knowledge.

Tell me you email or another contact by p.m., then we could discuss about the subject more closely. If you wish, of course.

P.S. Hehe, Vista is trash. Wait a year and then take W7. Now it's too raw.

 

[Juliebiro]

there is impossible to make so many provinces and regions as it was/is in reality. We can, but it would be a task for super computer, but not for home PC, as I think.

Mmh, as far as I know, the max number of provinces is fixed by Paradox engine and could not be bypassed anyway. But I may be wrong, it's just something I remember we discussed about another game from Paradox, maybe Victoria, and maybe about OHGamer's map...

 

[Herr Doctor]

w

 

[cool-toxic]

Ruthenian will stay because Poland and Lithuania should not gain Russian, but they should have the people in their lands as accepted. And Russia gains Ruthenian by event anyway.

Now please do keep this in English and about East European history I would recommend another thread in the history forum to be opened. This is hardly the place to discuss it as it clearly is nothing which can be dealt with on one page. And in order for people and me to keep an overview on things then this would be to prefer. Thanks.


Now to update you all, I have fixed areas for America and will do so tomorrow for the rotw as well.

 

[h.r.e.]

could it be that there are alot of crashes going on? (the mod is awesome btw) but my game crashed when i wanted to pick geneve (instant ctd) it crashed after playing maybe have a year of playing genoa and it also crashed after playing maybe 1 or 1 1/2 years of ingame venice playing

 

[Juliebiro]

I don't have any CTD at all myself, but you may try to save the game quite often (every two months?) and reload saved games regularly (once a year?). This is not very pleasant, but this is the first thing I think of, while waiting for refined versions of WATKABAOI 2 to be issued.

 

[unmerged(183341)]

>В летописях просто нет формы с «-груд»

И даже есть ссылки, где можно почитать эти летописи? Просим. Ссылки в студию! К тому же, у автора на карте написано "НаваНрудак". Перепеутал "h" с "n".

>Или летописный вариант - Новогродок.

Или так. Чередование о-у характерно при переходе от древне-русского к современному языку. А вот "Навахрадак" как раз и звучит по-польски.

>В моем случае исторических.

Исторический хвилосов. Прям как Андрэ Глюксман. Шучу. Вспомнил ещё прикол про Абрамовича – футбольный яжтсмен.

>Russian history is very influenced by the 19th century nationalism too.

Nope. Nationalism, haha, when many generals in army and admirals in fleet are foreigners, dukes – gruzins (gerogians, Bagration) and the empress – from Anhalt. Yes, it is RUSSIAN NATIONALISM!!! :rofl:

>No any problem at all I just do not want late 18th century anachronistic Polonized names. Historical chronicles Russian variants are “Novohrodok” (not Novogrudok), “Miensk” (Minsk), “Berestia” (Brest) etc

Provelinks...

>In this particular mod cultures represented by regional identities (check Germany, France etc). Taking this in account I do not think that existence of Ruthenian/West Russian is very much wrong and “nationalist” hardcoded.

Just west? Why not south? By the way, there are much less differense in rus. ethnos (I mean people, who lives on terrirories of Belo-, Malo- (Lesser) and Veliko (Greater) Rossia. All differences started to begin in 20th century ("thanks" to poles for the idea, to austrians with their deathcamps and forced ukrainization, then majorists (большевички) with prolongation of ukr-tion). Though, I don't see, that someone had argued, that ruthenian not equal to russian. If Ruthenia = Russia on latin, then ruth-s = rus-s on latin. Simple logics. Question to all, who read this – could you find proves of "ruthenians" (as ethnic term) existing? And then, find the same about "Ukraine". Don't you think it's strange – in medieval, if to trust some historians, "ruthenians" were living in area, which larger, than modern France. But now ruthenians are known as rusins – a small people in Subkarpatia. Where are the millions of those "ruthenians"? Seems as there weren't such ethnos/sub-ethnos.

P.S. Вот, кстати, ролики на тему. "Пособие" по созданию "народов".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2vwjtvpCuI&feature=player_embedded

http://rutube.ru/tracks/2639294.html?v=1bbdca5dfacec1095c05ee616bd44455

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lW4qsJv-WQ&feature=player_embedded

Это если вкратце. Ещё есть книги.

 

[h.r.e.]

ya i would do so but my loading is corrupted and crashes to desctop repeatly

 

[Herr Doctor]

w

 

[luk3Z]

>В летописях просто нет формы с «-груд»

(...)

„поидоста к Новогородку и паимаша грады многы и возвратишися в домы свои”

(...)

Please don't use hieroglyphs on the public international forum.
We can't read this without Google Translator.
I propose priv msg for hieroglyphs...

 

[Herr Doctor]

Please don't use hieroglyphs on the public international forum.
We can't read this without Google Translator.
I propose priv msg for hieroglyphs...

There are just quotes from the chronicles to portrait the Navahradak name issue.

 

[MichaelM]

Quoting foreign documents is permissible, but please a) also translate the quotations and b) keep the discussions in English, as per forum rule #7.

 

[cool-toxic]

Now please do keep this in English and about East European history I would recommend another thread in the history forum to be opened. This is hardly the place to discuss it as it clearly is nothing which can be dealt with on one page. And in order for people and me to keep an overview on things then this would be to prefer. Thanks.

Please no more discussion about names of Eastern Europe.. As I wrote above ^, please make another thread in the history forum.

 

[Juliebiro]

In my 1419 game with Portugal, I've been a little bit surprised by the fact that you already have some colony in The Azores at the beginning. By 1420/1425, it's very easy to get city in Madeira and The Azores, which is much earlier than IRL. Is it WAD?

Another thing: I get an event saying that because of Hussite wars, HRE is going to raise tax and if I accept, I receive 150 ducats.

Last: when I began the game, I directly received the mission to conquer Andalusia and keep it for five years (part of Chefkoch's dynamic missions?). I think it's not very realistic, and quite hard to achieve. Then, the mission was automatically cancelled but it costed me a quite big amount of victory points. I was a little bit disappointed. Is it not possible to choose the mission at the beginning of the game?

 

[cool-toxic]

In my 1419 game with Portugal, I've been a little bit surprised by the fact that you already have some colony in The Azores at the beginning. By 1420/1425, it's very easy to get city in Madeira and The Azores, which is much earlier than IRL. Is it WAD?

Yes:

The islands started to be settled circa 1420 or 1425. In 23 September 1433, the name Ilha da Madeira (Madeira Island or "wood island") appears on a map, its first mention in a document.

Another thing: I get an event saying that because of Hussite wars, HRE is going to raise tax and if I accept, I receive 150 ducats.

That is weird thanks for reporting.

Last: when I began the game, I directly received the mission to conquer Andalusia and keep it for five years (part of Chefkoch's dynamic missions?). I think it's not very realistic, and quite hard to achieve. Then, the mission was automatically cancelled but it costed me a quite big amount of victory points. I was a little bit disappointed. Is it not possible to choose the mission at the beginning of the game?

No we can not change missions that is nothing we have done and we cannot change it.

 

[unmerged(50202)]

On a small nitpick, Genoa has Sardinean culture as accepted instead of Corsican on the 1419 scenario (but maybe the others too).

Keep up the good work.

 

[Juliebiro]

Yes:

The islands started to be settled circa 1420 or 1425. In 23 September 1433, the name Ilha da Madeira (Madeira Island or "wood island") appears on a map, its first mention in a document.

Yes, I know about that and difference with reality is not very important. I just think I would have made those sea zones and land zones terra incognita on 01/01/1419, but granting Portugal with an explorer and a conquistador at the same time. As an example, explorer could have been Tristão Vaz and conquistador could have been João Gonçalves Zarco. Then, they should retire after seven or eight years.
BTW, I got Diego de Senill as an explorer on 01/01/1425. Two remarks: in terms of gameplay, his presence should be useful for the discovery of The Azores in 1427. If The Azores are already discovered and colonized earlier, he's not very useful any longer. Second remark, he was already renamed by his more famous name in earlier patches for EU2 (Diogo De Silves). Funny to have the old name again.