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What about "Arabia Universalis"..

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cool-toxic said:
But what about pagan? then you get more BB for annexing them and you can´t annex them like you could before>>TAG>>PAGAN.
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Reformed would be good for Pagan. It would allow Catholic nations to force convert Pagans (for example Teutonic Order converting Prussians).
Also Pagans need some strenght to deal with agressive Roman, Islamic and Frankish Empires.

Pagan --> Zoroastrian would be great so Persia can be easily annexed by the Muslims, as it was historically.
 
Cagliostro said:
Yes, you can force-convert pagans.
To clarify Sheridan's post, the situations you can convert are:

1) Anyone can force-convert a pagan.
2) Sunni and Shi'ite can force-convert each other.
3) Protestant, Reformed, Catholic, and Counter-Reform can force-convert each other.

You can only voluntarily convert:
1) From CRC to Catholic.
2) From Catholic to CRC or Protestant.
3) From Protestant to Catholic or Reformed.
4) From Reformed to Protestant.

Other than that you can only convert via event or being force-converted.
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From what Cagliostro said it could work if we make Persia and Byzantine empire weak like Timirud empire in vanilla. And then:

Pagan - Pagan
Catholic - Sunni
Protestant - Shiite
Reformed - Sufi
Orthodox - Judaism
Hindu - Hindu
Buddhist - Buddhist
Confucian - Confucian
Sunni - True Christian
Shiite - False Christian
Counter Catholic - Zoroastrian
 
BasileiosII said:
Reformed would be good for Pagan. It would allow Catholic nations to force convert Pagans (for example Teutonic Order converting Prussians).
Also Pagans need some strenght to deal with agressive Roman, Islamic and Frankish Empires.

Pagan --> Zoroastrian would be great so Persia can be easily annexed by the Muslims, as it was historically.
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BasileiosII you forgot about this funny TAG Counter Catholic
 
BasileiosII said:
Pagan --> Zoroastrian would be great so Persia can be easily annexed by the Muslims, as it was historically.
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You can however make an event which makes them inherit Persia and then the Pagan religion could be used somewhere else.

But I don't know for sure about that.
 
Pagan - Pagan
Catholic - Sunni
Protestant - Shiite
Reformed - Sufi
Orthodox - Judaism
Hindu - Hindu
Buddhist - Buddhist
Confucian - Confucian
Sunni - True Christian
Shiite - False Christian
Counter Catholic - Zoroastrian
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What is the point of having Sufis?they were more or less a widely interpreted movement throughout the muslim world, they were not a "Sect".You had sunni Sufis, Shiite sufis, it was more of a religious costume than a sect :)

Its looking good guys, its just that having Sufis dosent make any sense :confused: you didnt have a government or a people who were "Sufis".
 
Calipah said:
What is the point of having Sufis?they were more or less a widely interpreted movement throughout the muslim world, they were not a "Sect".You had sunni Sufis, Shiite sufis, it was more of a religious costume than a sect :)

Its looking good guys, its just that having Sufis dosent make any sense :confused: you didnt have a government or a people who were "Sufis".
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read the article on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sufism
could you find another islamic religion?
 
cool-toxic said:
read the article on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sufism
could you find another islamic religion?
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Traditionally many Sufis believe that Sufism is only the mystic aspect of Islam and date back the origins of Sufism to a group of companions of Muhammad known as Ahl as Suffa (People of the Veranda) that lived lives of poverty and piety , many of whom were of foreign origin (like Bilal from Ethiopia, Salman from Persia and Suhaib from Rome) and consider Ali ibn Abi Talib as the first point of the line of transmission of mystic heritage from Muhammad to Sufi tradition. Some of these beliefs lack historic evidence , but some scholars find elements of reality in them and believe that early Sufism was essentially the evolution of Islam in a mystic direction.
------- from wiki

The article itself stresses the fact it is a mystical attempt to communicate with God.

Now, unfortunitly , the article dosent seem to have the founder of Sufism, but I will tell you, it was Abdullah Al-Kufi, a muslim cleric who wore wool (thus the term Sufi from Soof) and was continously praying and worshipping God.

You have so many sufis, Darawish in Egypt and Sudan, Ahyl Al-Hasish (Weed smokers) in Syria and Turkey, Andalusian Orders in the Maghreb...etc They are more like Christian Monastic Orders, some even became Military orders like the Sufi Ribats in Al-Andalus and Morocco.

A Muslim sect.....well, most sects come under Shiite and Sunni denominations, and no great groups appeared until the later 10th century.If you really insist on another Muslim sect, Khwarij (though events to represent their plunders and raids would be better) would do.Seriously though, I dont find it nessicary , especially with the time limit you have for the game.

Perhaps an abberated one?
 
Sleepyhead said:
You can however make an event which makes them inherit Persia and then the Pagan religion could be used somewhere else.
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Why?

The Pagans of the Dark Ages were stronger and more of a force than the Pagans of North America in the EU2 period. They don't deserve such a lousy tag. ;)

Also, as I said before, it would be better for Catholics being able to force convert Pagans.
 
cool-toxic said:
BasileiosII if we leave it out we can´t have the Jewish Kingdom of Jerusalem.
´Then we don´t have the jewish people :eek:
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There never was a Jewish Kingdom of Jerusalem. It was a Catholic-Christian Crusader state. :p

Only one country was Jewish in that period: The Khazar Khaganate, but only after 900 AD.

IMO that doesn't justify that we need Judaism as a seperate religion. We only have a limited number of tags and we have to reach a concensus.

So my proposal again:

Catholic = Catholic
Protestant = Other Christian (MES ;)) (or Heretical, representing Nestorians, Monophysites etc.)
Reformed = Pagan (stronger Pagans, allows force conversions of Pagan nations)
Orthodox = Orthodox (Eastern Church, Constantinople)
Sunni = Sunni
Shiite = Shiite
Pagan = Zoroastrian
Confucian = Confucian (Maybe we can leave that out and make it Jewish if you want)
Buddhist = Buddhist
Hindu = Hindu
 
BasileiosII said:
Only one country was Jewish in that period: The Khazar Khaganate, but only after 900 AD.

IMO that doesn't justify that we need Judaism as a seperate religion. We only have a limited number of tags and we have to reach a concensus.

So my proposal again:

Catholic = Catholic
Protestant = Other Christian (MES ;)) (or Heretical, representing Nestorians, Monophysites etc.)
Reformed = Pagan (stronger Pagans, allows force conversions of Pagan nations)
Orthodox = Orthodox (Eastern Church, Constantinople)
Sunni = Sunni
Shiite = Shiite
Pagan = Zoroastrian
Confucian = Confucian (Maybe we can leave that out and make it Jewish if you want)
Buddhist = Buddhist
Hindu = Hindu
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Okay my proposal:

Catholic = Catholic
Protestant = Other Christian
Reformed = Pagan
Orthodox = Orthodox
Sunni = Sunni
Shiite = Shiite
Pagan = Zoroastrian
Confucian = Confucian
Buddhist = Buddhist
Hindu = Hindu
Counter catholic = Judaism (that way we can make them appear and make them disappear again )

BasileiosII said:
There never was a Jewish Kingdom of Jerusalem. It was a Catholic-Christian Crusader state. :p
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We wrote about this before and we want Jerusalem as an nation that can be formed by the christians or others, if there´s a "Judaism" religion then we can give the provinces that religion and hope that Byzantine or antoher nation get´s a revolt and then there comes a nation "Kingdom of Jerusalem" and it´s "Judaism":D
 
cool-toxic said:
Okay my proposal:

Catholic = Catholic
Protestant = Other Christian
Reformed = Pagan
Orthodox = Orthodox
Sunni = Sunni
Shiite = Shiite
Pagan = Zoroastrian
Confucian = Confucian
Buddhist = Buddhist
Hindu = Hindu
Counter catholic = Judaism (that way we can make them appear and make them disappear again )


We wrote about this before and we want Jerusalem as an nation that can be formed by the christians or others, if there´s a "Judaism" religion then we can give the provinces that religion and hope that Byzantine or antoher nation get´s a revolt and then there comes a nation "Kingdom of Jerusalem" and it´s "Judaism":D
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Allright. For the sake of the Khazars! ;)
 
Just a point of note. Having CRC= Jewish does mean that Jewish states cannot convert provinces to their religion and CRC is NOT acceptable as a province religion (all provinces will be Catholic)

Ayeshteni
 
Ayeshteni said:
Just a point of note. Having CRC= Jewish does mean that Jewish states cannot convert provinces to their religion and CRC is NOT acceptable as a province religion (all provinces will be Catholic)
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Is it? Didn't know that. :eek:o

Well then we have to leave out the Jewish religion. Or make Confucian Jewish and leave Confucian out since the focus is on Middle-East/North Africa/Europe.
 
Ayeshteni said:
Just a point of note. Having CRC= Jewish does mean that Jewish states cannot convert provinces to their religion and CRC is NOT acceptable as a province religion (all provinces will be Catholic)

Ayeshteni
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Damn :wacko:

I think this could work:

Catholic = Catholic
Protestant = Other Christian
Reformed = Pagan
Orthodox = Orthodox
Sunni = Sunni
Shiite = Shiite
Pagan = Zoroastrian
Confucian = Judaism
Buddhist = East Asian (Confucian, Buddhism etc.)
Hindu = Hindu
Counter catholic = Zionism (that way we can have some early crusader nations that want´s to make Kingdom of Jerusalem:D and it´s still catholic ;) )
Code: 
Wiki writes: Christian Zionism: the belief that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy, and is a necessary precondition for the return of Jesus to reign on Earth.
 
What about permanent casus bellis between the religions?
And can Reformed, CRC and Protestant religions be used before 1500?
 
Sleepyhead said:
What about permanent casus bellis between the religions?
And can Reformed, CRC and Protestant religions be used before 1500?
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Reformed, CRC and Protestant religions can be used whenever, as long as the necessary flags are triggered in the scenario file...

Code: 
    flags = { 1 2 3 }

Zionism - isnt Zionism a relatively new concept (mid nineteenth Century)?

Ayeshteni
 
Ayeshteni said:
Zionism - isnt Zionism a relatively new concept (mid nineteenth Century)?
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It is. It does not fit into a dark ages scenario.

IMO it's fine to replace Confucian with Jewish since the scenario focus is on the Arab world.

We could leave the Counter-Reformed tag out or make it "Crusader", which was already proposed for the IFU a few years ago.

So the setup is perfect except Zionism. Let's make it "Crusader"! :)


By the way, Ayeshteni, why did you abandon your AJFIFU project? IMO it was very interesting and it also covered pretty much the same time period.
 
BasileiosII said:
It is. It does not fit into a dark ages scenario.

IMO it's fine to replace Confucian with Jewish since the scenario focus is on the Arab world.

We could leave the Counter-Reformed tag out or make it "Crusader", which was already proposed for the IFU a few years ago.

So the setup is perfect except Zionism. Let's make it "Crusader"! :)
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CRC for the Crusader states is not a bad idea at all. As you say Buddhism and Confucianism can be just categorised as an Eastern or Asian religion.


BasileiosII said:
By the way, Ayeshteni, why did you abandon your AJFIFU project? IMO it was very interesting and it also covered pretty much the same time period.
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Oh, several reasons. University commitments became too heavy, focus had drifted to making a new map (like this mod :D ) which I looked at but couldnt do, and so on. Also it wasnt really my project (it was from the IFU after all -which I wasnt involved in) - renaming it was a bad idea, but I just wanted people to help make its potential (which you are doing here from a far more interesting perspective ;) ) to revive the mod so to speak and to turn it into English for a wider audience.

Ayeshteni
 
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