• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Wasn't the Cradle of Civilization the the Middle-Eastern expansion? It's been ages since South America was updated.
Cradle of Civilization was iirc made before EU4 even had mission trees, so obviously it needs some updated content to go with it.

The ottomans were always going to have an Islamic identity, descriptions and apologias of mehmed ii have bled into people's perceptions over the Ottomans as a whole over time
Yes, just like how the Teutonic Knights were famous for their decision to create a theocratic German Confederation after conquering all of Northern Germany.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Cradle of Civilization was iirc made before EU4 even had mission trees, so obviously it needs some updated content to go with it.
They could've done more expansive missions at time like third rome but alas
Yes, just like how the Teutonic Knights were famous for their decision to create a theocratic German Confederation after conquering all of Northern Germany.
Are teutons and prussia the same tag? Did the teutons become crusader mongols irl? Did the Ottomans live on until ww1 as an Islamic empire?
 
They could've done more expansive missions at time like third rome but alas

Are teutons and prussia the same tag? Did the teutons become crusader mongols irl? Did the Ottomans live on until ww1 as an Islamic empire?
That's my point. EU4 clearly isn't shy about alt history stuff, ESPECIALLY in Lions of the North, and a lot of those countries with new content are more fun for it. The choice I came up with was mostly just an example of "what sort of alt history split could you do with the Ottomans"
 
  • 7Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Yazidism and a meme Babylon formable tag.
I would leave such formables for another DLC focusing on lost cultures. Now we have following lost cultures in the game but we can use most of them only by modding the game
  • Anglo-Saxon
  • Aramaic
  • Athenian
  • Atlantean
  • Babylonian
  • Etrurian
  • Hebrew
  • Jan Mayenese
  • Old Egyptian
  • Parthian
  • Phoenician
  • Pruthenian
  • Roman
  • Scanian
  • Scythian
  • Spartan
This DLC could be something like Sunset Invasion in CK2
 
  • 2Like
  • 2Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
That's my point. EU4 clearly isn't shy about alt history stuff, ESPECIALLY in Lions of the North, and a lot of those countries with new content are more fun for it. The choice I came up with was mostly just an example of "what sort of alt history split could you do with the Ottomans"
New eu4 isn't shy, but I find this new direction extremely disagreeable. A pan turanist ottos is far more believable than a Greek ottos
 
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
I'd like to see a focus on trade and pirating on the Arabian Peninsula. An event about the rise of Oman and the conflicts between the western powers and muslim powers would be new and unexplored.

Qara, Aq, and Aradabil getting special conquest events could be fun.

The Ottomans getting a real mission tree is necessary.
 
  • 8
Reactions:
As a historian of Turkey (though admittedly not one with a specialty in Ottoman history) I would love to add my five cents into the discussion.

1) Persia must be re-worked/buffed as necessary to make it a formidable rival to the Ottoman AI. Otto-Habsburg rivalry most certainly defined the history of this part of the world for a while, but Otto-Persian and eventually Otto-Mughal rivalry too (yes, latter even worked with the Portuguese against Ottoman ambitions in the Indian Ocean) must counter Ottoman ambitions in the East. A strong Persia with diplomatic ties to Western powers can be a great check for the Ottoman AI whilst making the game somewhat enjoyable and interesting for players who wish to play as the most OP state in the game. This really must be the priority.

2) As a lover of smaller states, I would love to see new content for Caucasus and Arabia regions. Caucasus must be made less palatable for wannabe Empires that wish to conquer it, and Georgia as well as Armenia should receive extensive and interesting missions that are tailored for human players. So in theory, they should not become OP on their own when AI plays them, but for skilled players a path to recreating the ancient Armenian Empire or forging a mighty and tall (production based) Georgian Caucasus Empire should be possible.

3) I prefer quality over quantity and the quality of work done by Paradox in the latest DLC was just astonishing. Similarly, I think it is best to pick 5-6 states to really re-work and come up with a decent mission tree etc. for rather than making smaller and not so fun mission trees for 10-20 states. Ottomans, Ajam, Mamluks MUST receive a re-work to their missions, I would like to think that this is non-negotiable... On top of these, Georgia and Karabakh/Armenia can receive a mission tree too, that would be most interesting for a lot of players. An extra one or two mission trees if possible could be made for a selection of these few states: Byzantium (community favourite, would not be my pick), Knights/Cyprus (Gotland-like option, would be amazing), Genoa/Venice (unlikely but they too can bring flavor to the region), Crimea (my favourite option).

4) Last but certainly not least, manpower/force limit rework is needed for the Ottomans. The current system makes the state OP through sheer numbers and some modifiers, and makes a very poor case of showing Ottoman military might. It is, basically put, just any other "Eastern horde" with a flood of troops and nothing else. The reality was quite different. While the earliest Ottoman conquest were often full of Christian volunteers who wanted some cash, later campaigns in the Balkans would be fought with numerically not so superior but very well equipped and trained Janissaries. Ottoman population too was relatively small compared to some of its European rivals, almost dwarfed by the likes of France. Quality and not quantity of troops should be on the focus here. People that only know of Ottomans through EU4 would have a very wrong image of their military now, and this would be a good opportunity to fix that all the while fixing their OPness problem as well.

5) Since my BA thesis was on the Black Sea slave trade, I suppose a mechanic revolving around that and that is in connection with the Mamluks, Genoese/Venetians, and Ottoman conquest of Constantinople can be put in game too. It is hard to say what exactly, but Mamluks that have a hostile relationship with the owners of Black Sea slave ports and/or Constantinople should receive severe maluses to its slave-based society that relied on Italian merchants ferrying them from said ports. They may be required to make a land route to Caucasus themselves to get rid of these maluses. Ottoman players should have the ability to stop this trade if they wish to, and piss off the Mamluks whilst weakening them in the process. Of course, this should also put a huge dent in Ottoman economy too.
 
  • 12Like
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
Wasn't the Cradle of Civilization the the Middle-Eastern expansion? It's been ages since South America was updated.
So?

New World Nations had 3 expansions (CoP, ED, Leviathan) and nobody cry.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I'd like the province requirements for forming Armenia and Arabia to be changed.

Both needs provinces that in praxis requires you to beat the Ottomans (and Mamelukes for Arabia), which is definately doable. But it also means that by the time you form the tag your run is basically over, as there's pretty much no challenge left. For gameplay purposes I think it'd be more enjoyable to be able to form them and have a rivalry with the Ottomans still.

Especially with - presumably - new features, being a united Arabia rivalling the Ottoman regional hegemony is a nice and interesting setting.
Seems an easy fix to just remove the Anatolian province req. from forming Armenia, but it might be a harder fix for Arabia, as empire rank shouldn't come that easily.

Perhaps Arabia could have two stages, (Kingdom of) Arabia (n Peninsula) with the requirement of just unifying the peninsula, and then the Arabian Empire with the current requirements.
 
  • 9
Reactions:
1) Persia must be re-worked/buffed as necessary to make it a formidable rival to the Ottoman AI. Otto-Habsburg rivalry most certainly defined the history of this part of the world for a while, but Otto-Persian and eventually Otto-Mughal rivalry too (yes, latter even worked with the Portuguese against Ottoman ambitions in the Indian Ocean) must counter Ottoman ambitions in the East. A strong Persia with diplomatic ties to Western powers can be a great check for the Ottoman AI whilst making the game somewhat enjoyable and interesting for players who wish to play as the most OP state in the game. This really must be the priority.
Agreed completely on this front, although one really severe problem with this at the moment is that the Mughals and the Safavids just do NOT form reliably at all. It's really unfortunate, honestly - I think an ME expansion would have to tweak some stuff to make certain nations in Iran have claims n stuff that helps them form Persia specifically.

Similarly, I'm really weirded out by how rarely I've seen the Mughals in any of my games.
I'd like the province requirements for forming Armenia and Arabia to be changed.

Both needs provinces that in praxis requires you to beat the Ottomans (and Mamelukes for Arabia), which is definately doable. But it also means that by the time you form the tag your run is basically over, as there's pretty much no challenge left. For gameplay purposes I think it'd be more enjoyable to be able to form them and have a rivalry with the Ottomans still.

Especially with - presumably - new features, being a united Arabia rivalling the Ottoman regional hegemony is a nice and interesting setting.
Seems an easy fix to just remove the Anatolian province req. from forming Armenia, but it might be a harder fix for Arabia, as empire rank shouldn't come that easily.

Perhaps Arabia could have two stages, (Kingdom of) Arabia (n Peninsula) with the requirement of just unifying the peninsula, and then the Arabian Empire with the current requirements.
I actually completely agree on this front. A lot of the big endgame tag switches feel more like an endpoint than simply the beginning of new content - and Arabia and Persia in particular have this problem to a SEVERE degree. They don't even have any missions, for goodness' sake! Ideally, I'd want forming Persia in particular to have a vibe almost like the current state of Teutonic Prussia, where you can decide the identity of the nascent Iranian state in spectacular fashion.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
Aside from what others have said there are still a few tags in the region (albeit releasables who you hardly ever see) who have the dreaded generic national ideas.
And since they have a Norse Easter Egg event, I agree they should have one for the Ancient Egyptian Religion.
Mission Trees should also be freshened up.
 
Aside from what others have said there are still a few tags in the region (albeit releasables who you hardly ever see) who have the dreaded generic national ideas.
And since they have a Norse Easter Egg event, I agree they should have one for the Ancient Egyptian Religion.
Mission Trees should also be freshened up.
I see eu4 going the way of ck3, funny meme religion before good mechanics are expanded upon
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I see eu4 going the way of ck3, funny meme religion before good mechanics are expanded upon
The way I see it, because they added that Norse easter egg, it means they are now obliged to add other easter egg religions such as Hellenism, because otherwise it looks biased towards Scandinavia. There's not really a great way to justify it in-game, at least with Romuva, which wasn't included, there may have been people still practicing the religion at the time, but all the others were certainly dead.
Personally I think they should just let people have the CKII converter faiths for custom nations.
 
  • 7
  • 1
Reactions:
I see eu4 going the way of ck3, funny meme religion before good mechanics are expanded upon
Ah yes like the Norse easter egg that really took the development focus away from the... Extremely large amount of very cool content that came with that update

EU4 doesn't really need more mechanics, it's got plenty as-is. The problem is that there's a lot of regions of the game that are currently highly lacking in content or got touched ~5-7 years ago last and as a result haven't kept up with the curve.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
I really hate the muslim mechanics, so if we can get an overhaul there awesome. It would also be nice to have unique tags for potential released states with unique ideas if the Christians or another religion take over those lands. Also, monuments should be changed so they have effects (even if different ones) if non-muslim.
 
  • 2
Reactions: