• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of May 2019

Hey folks! Welcome back to another rousing Dev Diary! I'm @Ofaloaf, and following the pattern of previous diaries, I'm going to talk a bit about some Italian missions trees we've been working on before switching gears and letting @neondt discuss some other very exciting features we’re adding to the Italian experience.

One of the biggest factors in designing missions for the Italian states was Italy itself. Unified Italy will have its own mission tree in the expansion, and the unification decision that creates Italy also changes the mission tree over to that new Italian tree. This gave certain limits to the scope of missions for Italian states- If we encouraged the player to conquer too much too quickly, they'd be able to form Italy early and miss out on half the missions scripted for them as an Italian minor, and I certainly don't want anyone to miss out on a single speck of beautiful content I make.

Because of that, the missions for Italian states ended up far more focused and smaller-scale than some of their counterparts elsewhere. Take Florence, for example:

dd_florence.jpg


Florence was still technically a republic and a commune at the start of EU4's timeframe, but it was a republic already strongly dominated by the House of Medici. The Medici reigned in Florence for centuries, playing a role in its transformation from a republic to a duchy and then into the Grand Duchy of Tuscany. Along the way, they also started a short line of Renaissance Popes, and married one scion, Catherine de' Medici, to King Henry II of France, where she played a key part in the French Wars of Religion.

Florentine missions encourage some conquest in Italy, but not terribly much. Most of Florence's missions are about building up the power of the state and totally not preparing the way for the end of the republic and the formal establishment of hereditary rule. Prestige and personal power are the key themes of Florentine missions. That, and accumulating money. An Italy formed from a Florence that has completed all of its Florentine missions should be an obscenely wealthy Italy.

In contrast to Florence's limited goals, Venice probably reaches the furthest in its missions. Venetian missions don't focus too much on Italy, but do encourage it to flex its muscles and assert its power both on terra firma and overseas.

dd_venice.png


Venice's expansionist missions encourage it to revisit the good old days when a doge could ransack Constantinople and turn a crusader kingdom into the client of a city-state built on a muddy lagoon. There are also some more forward-thinking military missions which urge Venice to consider the problems the Holy Roman Empire might pose, and gently encourage it to crush Austria and hear the lamentations of the Habsburgs. The diplomatic power of the Serene Republic is also flexed as Venice is encouraged to magnify its own majesty and make its ambassadors masters of their craft.

I'm also really proud of the Plague Doctor Training mission, completing that will make some disease-related events much rarer and outright disable others. It's not an immediate payoff, but man wouldn't it be nice for your citizens to get the plague less often?

While Venice may be busy coveting the Eastern Mediterranean, Milan is all about Italy.

dd_milan.jpg


Milan under the House of Visconti was one of the major powers in Italy. During the reign of Gian Galeazzo Visconti, from 1395 to 1402, Milan reached its greatest extent, asserting control as far south as Pisa and Siena. However, following Gian Galeazzo's death, Milanese fortunes waned, and his son, Filippo Maria, never produced a male heir. The chaos following Filippo Maria's death in 1447 is what ultimately led to the brief time of the Ambrosian Republic and the rise of the House of Sforza.

Milanese missions reflect this Milanese history of expansion and grandiose rule under the Visconti and Sforza, with missions trying to recreate the heights of Gian Galeazzo's rule and beyond, while also encouraging some internal development of the realm at the same time. An Italy formed by Milan will likely have a stronger-than-average military and a well-developed Lombardy under its control.

----------------------

I’m @neondt, and as @Ofaloaf said above I’m here to talk about some additional Italian content we’ve been working on lately. I’ll focus on Florence and Milan since they have the spotlight this week, but there’s more to come.

As my colleague said, Florence was a city-state dominated by the Medici family. We’ve long desired a way for Florence to keep its ruling family through republican elections, and now at last it’s here. The new Signoria government reform (and legacy government) enables the dynastic candidates seen in the Political Dynasties reform from day 1. Unlike Political Dynasties, there are no penalties to the ruler skills of dynastic candidates and there is no random candidate bonus. In addition it enables Royal Marriages. Bologna, Lucca and Siena will also begin with this government reform, and it will be available to other Italian republics and Italian custom nations.

Medici rule was violently interrupted by the rise of the radical cleric Savonarola between 1494 and 1498. We’ve converted the existing event chain about Savonarola into a more coherent Disaster and added a few more events. During the “Bonfire of the Vanities” Disaster all of the events related to Savonarola’s rule will contribute to Savonarola’s popularity or unpopularity. Should Savonarola become too unpopular or die, his reign will end and the Medici will be able to return. But if Savonarola gathers significant support from the people, Florence will be put on the path to Theocracy and gain the ire of the Pope.

dd_sforza.png


On the topic of Milan, the big thing we felt was missing was the absence of any mention of Francesco Sforza in the game. To that end we’ve modified the Ambrosian Republic event significantly and added several more events, once more converting it into a Disaster. Certain nations will be offered the opportunity to claim the vacant throne of Milan, putting them at odds with some of Europe’s most powerful nations and potentially sparking the Italian Wars. If during this Disaster Milan finds itself at war or fighting rebels (a likely situation), the renowned condottiero Sforza will become available as a General. Milan can refuse him, but turning down one of the greatest military commanders of his time will have consequences - he can either join your enemies (always Venice if Milan is fighting them) or else become a Pretender rebel.

Eventually Sforza will discover that his enemies within the Republic have double-crossed him. Historically this caused Sforza to turn against the Republic and seek the throne for himself, but the player will have an additional option. Granting Sforza absolute military rule over the Republic will change the government into a Military Dictatorship, a new tier 1 reform and legacy government. Military Dictatorships elevate their rulers from the ranks of their Generals and there is no election cycle, similar to the Pirate Kings of Golden Century. Monarch skills are derived from the candidate’s skills as a General. Of course Sforza can be denied this power, at which point he will become a Pretender rebel. Even allowing Sforza to rule as a tyrant will not appease him forever. Soon after he will declare himself Duke, and the player can decide whether to accept his bid for the throne, restore the Ambrosian Republic, or appoint a new Captain-General. The AI will typically choose to continue granting Sforza power, with Sforza eventually becoming Duke. We felt this would be a better path for the AI as relying on Sforza to triumph as a Pretender is far from a safe bet. The player however can navigate the rise of Sforza however they see fit, pursuing any of the possible outcomes.

That’s all for today! We may return to talking about Italian content in the future, and we certainly have more to show. As always there’s plenty of time before release, so let us know in the comments which Italian mission trees and historical events you’d like to see in the future. Next week however we’ll be moving on to our map reworks of both the French region and the Balkans, so expect a meaty dev diary.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
@neondt, does Milan getting the Signoria to start with?

"The Visconti, who ruled Milan until 1447, was the most notable of the signori in centralizing and consolidating their power."(I hope Milan started with the Signoria government.) https://www.britannica.com/topic/signoria EU4 start date( 1444 November 11)

If you would not mind, please list which countries will get Signoria government. Thank you, I still confused.

@Van Kasten, Here is the list of all Signoria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signoria :D This will definitely help answer your questions.
 
@neondt, does Milan getting the Signoria to start with?

"The Visconti, who ruled Milan until 1447, was the most notable of the signori in centralizing and consolidating their power."(I hope Milan started with the Signoria government.) https://www.britannica.com/topic/signoria EU4 start date( 1444 November 11)

If you would not mind, please list which countries will get Signoria government. Thank you, I still confused.

@Van Kasten, Here is the list of all Signoria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signoria :D This will definitely help answer your questions.

First of all, let me start by saying that the word Signoria (Lordship in English) is used in two ways: in a very broad sense and in a specific sense. When you say that Milan was a Signoria, you are using it in the broad sense. When you say that Florence was a Signoria of the se Medici’s family, you are using it in the specific sense. In the broad sense, you could say that even in Venice there was a Signoria (Serenissima Signoria) until its demise, but this is merely a semantic problem. Maybe I’ll explain in detail in later.

Milan was NOT a Signoria in 1444. It was a Duchy.

The list of the Signorie in game are Florence, Bologna, Lucca and Pisa, quoting the devs.

According to that list, Milan should not be a Signoria in 1444. By the way, neither Siena nor Lucca should be.

————————————————————

I’ll keep talking for a moment about the “Signoria”. It’s difficult for a Italian to make the concept understood to the the ones that not used to the term.
Let’s start with this: the “Signoria” the game refers to is not a Signoria, but it’s what is called an Occult Signoria. What’s the difference? A Signoria is more akin to a Monarchy. Power (usually over a city) is passed from father to son like in a Monarchy. An Occult Signoria means that a powerful family, by means of gold, military power, scheming and favour-exchanging is able to control the supreme organs of a Republic and bend it to their will. Usually in an Occult Signoria there are two factions: the ones who are loyal to (or paid by) the dominant family and those who are against them, usually waning to either found a new Republic or to take power for themselves.
Now, in most of the Italian Republics there have always been a Signoria. “But why?” you may ask. The fact is simple, the one of the superior organs of those Republic was called “Signoria”, but it had nothing to do with a Powerful Family holding supreme power. The “Signoria” I am talking about is the same as the Venetian “Serenissima Signoria”, which was comprised by the Doge and the Ducal Counsellors. In Florence it was comprised by the Gonfaloniere and by a small number of the factions’ representatives. Usually the Medici supporters and the antagonists would seat in opposite sides of the room.
If two meaning are kind of obscure, let me introduce the Third: in Italian, you can say “Francesco Sforza, Signore di Milano” which means “Francesco Sforza, Lord of Milan”. Why is that? Wasn’t he a Duke? Yes, he was a Duke, but that expression means that he is the one currently holding power in Milan. Not only in the city of Milan, but in all the territories administered by Milan.

As you can see, the word “Signoria” has not a unique meaning, and as a non-Italian it’s confusing to get your head around it. Every time you see the word “Signoria” you should try to understand what that word actually means. If you read that in Venice there was a Signoria, maybe you would be tempted to assume they were like Florence, with glaring mistakes ;)

I hope to have provided you with a satisfactory answer.
 
This is excellent. Really.
Florence's mission tree is particularry interesting.
If you continue with this type of quality, this DLC is gonna be far better than golden century.
But of course the community expects a lot more and you need to focus especially on catholicism and papal states and also on the italian war who are kind of absent in the game.

Actually, being better than GC isnot that hard
 
Wooow 3 very big mission trees :D and i also read that savoy may come in due time, but i'd like to see genoese, pope and naples/two sicilies missions as beefy as those aswell
 
Definitely Savoy/Sardinia-Piedmont needs it’s own mission tree. Especially since historically, they were the Italian state in the end that dominated the rest and unified the others into a Kingdom of Italy!
 
How is Venice supposed to crush Austria when its essentially limited to having 20 provinces or becoming untrue to itself?

Trying to push Venice into being an expansionist state kind of ruins the more unique nature of its history, they knew fully well that land empires were costly and difficult to administrate which is why they focused so much on controlling the key strategic positions on an international level to promote their mercantile and diplomatic interests.

Brute forcing Venice into being an expansionist power is a betrayal of the ideology surrounding the city state for the convenience of essentially sucking up to the map painting nature of EU4.

I have to disagree, Venice took a lot of land from continental Italy since Chioggia battle, only to end this expansion in the Italian Wars. And they later participated in many continental wars, like the Mantuan succession one. So no, they were not only sea oriented.
 
Mission trees are inherently boring.

Would be great if, for example, you had estates that generated missions and performing them resulted in loyalty. But no, instead every country is railroaded and gets claims all over the place.
 
Next week however we’ll be moving on to our map reworks of both the French region and the Balkans, so expect a meaty dev diary.
Does the "France" region include the reworks of Belgium and the Netherlands teased in the Germany DD?
 
First of all, let me start by saying that the word Signoria (Lordship in English) is used in two ways: in a very broad sense and in a specific sense. When you say that Milan was a Signoria, you are using it in the broad sense. When you say that Florence was a Signoria of the se Medici’s family, you are using it in the specific sense. In the broad sense, you could say that even in Venice there was a Signoria (Serenissima Signoria) until its demise, but this is merely a semantic problem. Maybe I’ll explain in detail in later.

Milan was NOT a Signoria in 1444. It was a Duchy.

The list of the Signorie in game are Florence, Bologna, Lucca and Pisa, quoting the devs.

According to that list, Milan should not be a Signoria in 1444. By the way, neither Siena nor Lucca should be.

————————————————————

I’ll keep talking for a moment about the “Signoria”. It’s difficult for a Italian to make the concept understood to the the ones that not used to the term.
Let’s start with this: the “Signoria” the game refers to is not a Signoria, but it’s what is called an Occult Signoria. What’s the difference? A Signoria is more akin to a Monarchy. Power (usually over a city) is passed from father to son like in a Monarchy. An Occult Signoria means that a powerful family, by means of gold, military power, scheming and favour-exchanging is able to control the supreme organs of a Republic and bend it to their will. Usually in an Occult Signoria there are two factions: the ones who are loyal to (or paid by) the dominant family and those who are against them, usually waning to either found a new Republic or to take power for themselves.
Now, in most of the Italian Republics there have always been a Signoria. “But why?” you may ask. The fact is simple, the one of the superior organs of those Republic was called “Signoria”, but it had nothing to do with a Powerful Family holding supreme power. The “Signoria” I am talking about is the same as the Venetian “Serenissima Signoria”, which was comprised by the Doge and the Ducal Counsellors. In Florence it was comprised by the Gonfaloniere and by a small number of the factions’ representatives. Usually the Medici supporters and the antagonists would seat in opposite sides of the room.
If two meaning are kind of obscure, let me introduce the Third: in Italian, you can say “Francesco Sforza, Signore di Milano” which means “Francesco Sforza, Lord of Milan”. Why is that? Wasn’t he a Duke? Yes, he was a Duke, but that expression means that he is the one currently holding power in Milan. Not only in the city of Milan, but in all the territories administered by Milan.

As you can see, the word “Signoria” has not a unique meaning, and as a non-Italian it’s confusing to get your head around it. Every time you see the word “Signoria” you should try to understand what that word actually means. If you read that in Venice there was a Signoria, maybe you would be tempted to assume they were like Florence, with glaring mistakes ;)

I hope to have provided you with a satisfactory answer.
A really good explanation!
 
You realize you are saying that to someone who has done several feedback threads for the latest patches, right?

Bruh
You just said that to bloody Mingmung of all people

And? Someone is hopeful about the next expansion and he felt the need to be an ass about it. I don’t see how any previous work justifies that. He was being rude and unhelpful no matter how you paint it.
 
And? Someone is hopeful about the next expansion and he felt the need to be an ass about it. I don’t see how any previous work justifies that. He was being rude and unhelpful no matter how you paint it.
He has reported a lot of geographical mistakes from previous patches and almost none of them has been fixed, and he is pissed for having been largely ignored. That's why he said that.
And I understand him, there's no excuse for so many misplaced (and even fictitious) cities and regions, specially after he spent hours and hours reporting those mistakes to make this game better.
 
That’s all for today! We may return to talking about Italian content in the future, and we certainly have more to show. As always there’s plenty of time before release, so let us know in the comments which Italian mission trees and historical events you’d like to see in the future. Next week however we’ll be moving on to our map reworks of both the French region and the Balkans, so expect a meaty dev diary.

For Balkan I think that would be nice if you add missions for Croatia too (Serbia is already in plan I think). Croatian missions can be focused on repeal of Ottoman invasion and establish a dominance in region + in Hungary and Venice