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Tinto Flavour #6 - 14th of February 2025 - Bohemia

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Friday when we take a look at the content of the new, super-secret Project Caesar. Today we will be travelling to the Kingdom of Bohemia, a charming place that is worth setting video games in…:

"Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign…

The lands of Bohemia are a territory inhabited by Slavs in the heart of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire. After a long period under the Přemyslid dynasty, the current de Luxembourg rulers may tighten the ties the country has with the Empire, although King Jehan the Blind de Luxembourg is more Francien than German, having been educated in the royal court of Paris.

Keeping both the Nobility and the common folk satisfied under a foreign King, and navigating the political intricacies of the Holy Roman Empire will prove a hurdle for anybody. Fortunately, Bohemia is a strong Kingdom, but will it succeed in its ambitions?"

Country Selection.jpg

As usual, please consider the UI, 2D and 3D art as WIP.

Here you have the lands of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia:
Bohemia.jpg

You might notice some location and country changes… More about that at the end of this post!

Bohemia starts in a very interesting diplomatic situation:
Diplomacy.jpg

From top to bottom: Rivals, Enemies (Rivals are the countries chosen by the player, while Enemies are the countries that chose our country as a Rival), Wars, Embargos, Subjects, and Alliances.

Here is a clearer view using the Diplomatic map mode:
Diplomatic Situation.jpg

Jehan ‘the Blind’ is Count of Luxembourg, his inherited and main title; King of Bohemia, after his marriage with Elizabeth Přemyslid, the last princess of that dynasty; and Duke of Wrocław and overlord of Silesia, after his agreement with King Casimir III of Poland on the Treaty of Trentschin, in 1335. His heir is his son Charles, who rules over Moravia. You can also notice that Lower Bavaria is your ally, and all the countries involved in the ongoing Teuton-Polish War. As usual, take the map as WIP, as we’ve already internally discussed that the colouring needs to be improved, to portray better the diplomatic situation shown above.

Bohemia starts with a unique government reform, the ‘Bohemian Commonwealth’:
Bohemian Commonwealth.jpg

It also has a couple of unique Estate Privilege. The ‘Inaugural Diplomas’ were granted by King Jehan in 1311, after he acceded to the throne:
Inaugural Diplomas.jpg

While ‘Ius Teutonicum’ is a privilege for the Commoners, it represents the German settlements across the country:
Ius Teutonicum.jpg

This privilege can be coupled with the ‘Invite German Settlers’ that we mentioned in Tinto Flavour #1, making for a strong combination if you want to grow the population of your country.

As a side note, the Parliament of Bohemia has a flavour name, that we added following your feedback in Tinto Talks #41:
Zemsky Snem.jpg

Let’s take a look at some of the unique advances of Bohemia, now. The first unlocks a unique unit, the ‘Wagenburg’:
Wagenburg.jpg

Wagenburg2.jpg

We also have advances for later ages, such as the famous ‘Bohemian Crystal’ in the Age of Discovery, or ‘Bohemian Thaler’ in the Age of Reformation:
Bohemian Crystal.jpg

Bohemian Thaler.jpg

Let’s take a look now at the narrative content for Bohemia because it is very interesting. The main historical event of the period probably is the Hussite Wars, which we’re representing with a Situation:
Hussite Wars1.png

The situation may trigger around 1400, with this event initiating it:
Hussite Wars Trigger.png

These are the two options:
Hussite Wars Trigger2.png

Hussite Wars Trigger3.png

If the player selects the first, Bohemia will convert to Hussitism:
Hussite Bohemia.png

Hussitism.png

Jan Hus will be a character appearing in the game and founding this religion, but we will talk about him in a future Tinto Flavour devoted to another situation, the ‘Western Schism’.

The Pope will be able to declare a Crusade to restore Catholicism in Bohemia with a follow-up event, and the Hussite Wars will start after that:

Hussite Wars2.png

I triggered the situation from the console, so we obviously have some weird behaviors here with the countries called to arms, the leaders, etc.; please take this panel as a ‘template’ of how the situation will look like when triggered organically in a regular gameplay.

Apart from the side of the situation (Defender of Rome and Defenders of Bohemia), and their respective leaders, there are a few actions that can be performed by Bohemia through the situation:
Force Conversions.png
Prepare the Defenses.png

Aligh with the Moderates.png

Align with the Radicals.png

The currency that you have to pay to perform these actions is called ‘Religious Influence’. We will talk more about it in the future Tinto Talks devoted to Catholic and Protestant religions.

More content and events will trigger during the situation. And, finally, these are the conditions that may end the Situation, either with a Catholic or a Hussite victory:
Catholic Victory.png

Hussite Victory.png

The 30 years that the situation may last is subject to future balance, as usual.

Let’s take a look now at some of the Bohemian Dynamic Historical Events:

‘Maiestas Carolina’ is an event that unlocks a unique policy of the same name for the Legal Code law, if the first option is selected:
Maiestas Carolina.png

Maiestas Carolina2.png

There will be the option to found a University in Prague:
University of Prague.png

And also to sponsor an artist to craft a new fancy crown:
Crown of Bohemia.png

Crown of Bohemia2.png
You may notice that King Jehan wears a fancy, new crown, compared with the previous event. The name of the country will also change to ‘Crown of Bohemia’, and the ‘Crown of Saint Wenceslas’ will be created as a ‘Regalia’ work of art.

Last, but not least, I think that I might be willing to get a cold beer after this Tinto Flavour:
Liquid Delight.png

Brewery.png
Pivo, prosím!

…And much more content will be available for Bohemia, but that’s all for today! I won’t be available for the replies, but my fellow coworker @Roger Corominas will be replying instead of me. For next week, we will have the HRE Tinto Maps Feedback on Monday, and next Friday’s Tinto Flavour country will be Bavaria. Cheers!
 

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"The lands of Bohemia are a territory inhabited by Slavs in the heart of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire."

Very strange to add "Germanic" in front of the Holy Roman Empire when it included Italians, Slavs, French and more people groups. If this is somehow a reference to the suffix "Of the German Nation", this suffix was never officially adobted by the Empire and it was not even used in many official documents. Furthermore, it is questionable that this suffix is not merely a reference to the Kingdom of Germany when many German publicists also used the suffix "Of the Italian nation" when refering to the Kingdom of Italy.

The information should just remove Germanic all together.
 
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"The lands of Bohemia are a territory inhabited by Slavs in the heart of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire."

Very strange to add "Germanic" in front of the Holy Roman Empire when it included Italians, Slavs, French and more people groups. If this is somehow a reference to the suffix "Of the German Nation", this suffix was never officially adobted by the Empire and it was not even used in many official documents. Furthermore, it is questionable that this suffix is not merely a reference to the Kingdom of Germany when many German publicists also used the suffix "Of the Italian nation" when refering to the Kingdom of Italy.

The information should just remove Germanic all together.
I think this is a result of Pavia being spanish. Here the HRE is called El Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico. Which translates to as the Holy Roman Germanic Empire
 
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Considering the estates have wealth of their own, I think it would be appropriate if decision like "Prepare the Defenses" would also be partly paid by them, instead of just costing less for the state.
 
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To 3) as long as there was a strong legitimate male heir, the succession wasn't contested (except for in Sigismund's case there was an open rebellion but even then there was no serious other claimant). Usually the new ruler just confirmed existing rights and got his coronation. This is also the reason why all ruler's after the death of Václav III married into the Přemyslid dynasty and Charles IV was more keen on his Přemyslid heritage (also in opposition to his father). There was no one who wanted to place a "proper" Přemyslid on the throne, because he was after all the grandson of Václav II.
I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure about Bohemian succession practices. It does indeed seem to be the case that succession was effectively primogeniture, however, it is notable that Matthias needed to get his Austrian successor elected his Heir in both Bohemia and Hungary, since he was a cousin and not a son. This, of course, lead to the third Defenestration of Prague and helped to kickstart the Thirty Years War.

To me, you can either represent this with strong estates who are liable to start wars for claimants, or some form of elective monarchy which highly favours children of the current king, but not always.
 
I'm sure this has been said before, but is there any chance the unique unit UI can be reworked so show how it differs from the default unit of that type? Like, I look at the unique Bohemian auxiliary you showed off and just have no idea what makes it special. It'd be really annoying if we have to memorize the base stats of all the unit types to understand our unique ones.
 
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"The lands of Bohemia are a territory inhabited by Slavs in the heart of the Germanic Holy Roman Empire."

Very strange to add "Germanic" in front of the Holy Roman Empire when it included Italians, Slavs, French and more people groups. If this is somehow a reference to the suffix "Of the German Nation", this suffix was never officially adobted by the Empire and it was not even used in many official documents. Furthermore, it is questionable that this suffix is not merely a reference to the Kingdom of Germany when many German publicists also used the suffix "Of the Italian nation" when refering to the Kingdom of Italy.

The information should just remove Germanic all together.
Holy Roman Empire is only the short name in English, it's full English name is also the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". The electors were German princes. The greatest rights in the empire were given to the German states, and fewer rights given to the Italian states (the Shadow Kingdom event in EU4 was quite incorrect, and Imperial control and influence over the Italians actually increased over time).

So no, describing the Empire as Germanic in that context is correct, even though Slavs and Italians were also present.
 
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Holy Roman Empire is only the short name in English, it's full English name is also the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation". The electors were German princes. The greatest rights in the empire were given to the German states, and fewer rights given to the Italian states (the Shadow Kingdom event in EU4 was quite incorrect, and Imperial control and influence over the Italians actually increased over time).

So no, describing the Empire as Germanic in that context is correct, even though Slavs and Italians were also present.
The start date is 1337, the term "Of the German Nation" did not even appear until the 15th/16th century and again, it was not the official name even in English.

And I would like to remind you once more that the suffix "Of the Italian Nation" was also used so how do you explain that?
 
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The start date is 1337, the term "Of the German Nation" did not even appear until the 15th/16th century and again, it was not the official name even in English.

And I would like to remind you once more that the suffix "Of the Italian Nation" was also used so how do you explain that?
The empire didn't even have a name for centuries, the first use of the name 'Holy Roman Empire' occurs in 1254, and they didn't even settle informally on using the name until 1340. The name of the Empire doesn't ever appear to have been settled upon, so saying that it only first turns up in the 15th century is misleading - they still hadn't decided upon a name for the empire. Damning this is that they used the name 'Deutsches Reich' in the official abolition on the Empire. https://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/official-name-of-the-holy-roman-empire.html

The empire was simply a German-dominated empire so saying Bohemia was a Slavic kingdom in a Germanic empire is correct.

I've never seen 'of the Italian nation' and a quick search is turning nothing up. I know there were the titles 'King of the Romans' and the Kingdom of Italy. Do you have a source for this.
 
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Bohemia starts in a very interesting diplomatic situation:
View attachment 1254223
From top to bottom: Rivals, Enemies (Rivals are the countries chosen by the player, while Enemies are the countries that chose our country as a Rival), Wars, Embargos, Subjects, and Alliances.

Here is a clearer view using the Diplomatic map mode:
View attachment 1254226
Jehan ‘the Blind’ is Count of Luxembourg, his inherited and main title; King of Bohemia, after his marriage with Elizabeth Přemyslid, the last princess of that dynasty; and Duke of Wrocław and overlord of Silesia, after his agreement with King Casimir III of Poland on the Treaty of Trentschin, in 1335. His heir is his son Charles, who rules over Moravia. You can also notice that Lower Bavaria is your ally, and all the countries involved in the ongoing Teuton-Polish War. As usual, take the map as WIP, as we’ve already internally discussed that the colouring needs to be improved, to portray better the diplomatic situation shown above.

Bohemia, Poland and Hungary formed an anti-Hapsburg alliance in 1335 at the Congress of Visegrád, which is only represented with an embargo on Austria but none of the alliances. In 1336 Bohemia went to war against Austria with Poland joining late in June and Hungary joining soon after, leading to a peace treaty in July although Hungary would pursue Austria separately.

The Congress of Visegrád happened following the Treaty of Trentschin that is mentioned, and shows that Bohemia and Poland are not at war in 1337 (Casimir III agreed to an indemnification). Rather there is an alliance that followed the success of the Treaty of Trentschin as well as a formula for a peace proposal with the Teutonic Order before the later Treaty of Kalisz in 1343.

This is currently how we have it, as the war was technically still ongoing. However, we are always open to iterations and reviews.

In the least, remove Bohemia from involvement in the Polish-Teutonic War, as it should have left by 1335. The alliances with Poland and Hungary should at least be considered.

Also, back in the EU4 Common Sense update the active conflicts of the Hundred Years' War and Albanian–Ottoman Wars at the start date were removed.

# Setup
- Hundred Years War is no longer raging in 1444 as the countries had a 5 year truce at the time.
- Albania and the Ottomans no longer start at war, to give Albania a chance to survive as they did historically for 20 years.

As stated above, the Hundred Years' War had been paused due to the Treaty of Tours, however, the Albanian–Ottoman Wars did not actually pause but it was implemented to give the new League of Lezhë a chance.

The Polish-Teutonic War had an armistice following the death of Władysław I that lasted up to the actual conclusion in 1343. This armistice was marked by diplomatic action in which the Papacy became involved. In 1339 a Papal legate was sent to Warsaw, where pontifical judges presided over the case brought by Casimir III against the Teutonic Order. The Papal Curia in Avignon issued its verdict in the Warsaw Process of 1339, but Pope Benedict XII commissioned a reexamination, and the Grandmaster of the Teutonic Order submitted documentation to prove the Order's case.

While Casimir III contended throughout the legal battles, he chose peace to focus on recovery and expansion into Ruthenia, and in 1340 the Galicia-Volhynia Wars had begun. Casimir III was not fighting two wars on distant fronts, but he was working diplomatically on one and fighting on the other. As a result, the terms of peace in the Treaty of Kalisz helped to solidify the ideas of the unification of the Kingdom of Poland. And after over a century later, Poland would regain its lost lands and the Teutonic Order would become a subject.

A war of words and legal battles should not necessitate Poland and the Teutonic Order to be at war in 1337. Although formal peace was not made until 1343, Poland was involved in two separate wars during this diplomatic process. There is sufficient evidence for a pause in the conflict to be implemented as the peacemaking process was fully underway, and after some iterations this pause should be implemented as was done with the two wars mentioned from EU4.

As a side note, if the Teutonic Order is at war with Poland in 1337, then Hungary should be at war with Austria since Hungary launched an expedition in early 1337. This was due to Austria allying with rebellious Hungarian subjects, and the peace treaty was not signed until September.


Thank you all for the work that you do as well as your consideration.
 
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The empire didn't even have a name for centuries, the first use of the name 'Holy Roman Empire' occurs in 1254, and they didn't even settle informally on using the name until 1340. The name of the Empire doesn't ever appear to have been settled upon, so saying that it only first turns up in the 15th century is misleading - they still hadn't decided upon a name for the empire. Damning this is that they used the name 'Deutsches Reich' in the official abolition on the Empire. https://www.holyromanempireassociation.com/official-name-of-the-holy-roman-empire.html

The empire was simply a German-dominated empire so saying Bohemia was a Slavic kingdom in a Germanic empire is correct.

I've never seen 'of the Italian nation' and a quick search is turning nothing up. I know there were the titles 'King of the Romans' and the Kingdom of Italy. Do you have a source for this.
The thing is, Holy Roman Empire became the official title, "Of the German Nation" did not. Also I prefer actual academic works and historians of the subject as an authority on the subject than a website made by enthousiasts. One work that comes to mind is Peter H. Wilson's Heart of Europe. Again, your point of it being used by legal scholars and in some documents like the abolition is irrelevant because they also used "Of the Italian Nation." Also I would like to see the actual German text of abolition just to be sure that it is not a mistranslation.

For "Of the Italian Nation" you can find in Google Books for example Girtanner's Politischen Analen Volume 6 (page 3.) and Von Franckenberg's Europäischer Herold (either page 619 or 620).

Edit: to add, the I think the abdication text of Francis does not mention of the German Nation and furthermore, the abdication text is not a useful source for this discussion as 5 years earlier Italy was officially lost to France and its client states.
 
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I think the abdication text of Francis does not mention of the German Nation and furthermore, the abdication text is not a useful source for this discussion as 5 years earlier Italy was officially lost to France and its client states.
It doesn't say "of the German Nation", but he refers to the entire entity as "German Reich" half a dozen times. Specifically, he says that he lays down the Roman Kaisercrown of the German Reich, so he understood his rule as that of the Roman Emperor ruling over the German nation.

Naturally, I got curious, so I went back to documents from the 18th century. Let's take the "draft about the standing electorial chapter" from 1711 made by the Reichstag. It speaks of the "Roman king and emperor", who is placed above the "German Nation, the Holy Roman Empire" etc. (and yes, they put the "German Nation" before the HRE)

But that small thing aside, most (if not all) other documents from that century refer to the entity as the Holy Roman Empire and don't add anything like "of the German Nation". Interestingly, the HRE and German Reich as terms seem to be used interchangeably for each other. A decree from 1717 speaks of the estates of the Holy Roman Empire, and then uses German Reich in the same sentence to refer to the same entity he just called HRE.

That seems to be a pattern in the later years, because a quick look in another document (this time from 1752) had them talk about the "Teutsche Reichsverfassung" ("German Reichs-constitution"), referring to the judicial construct at the heart of the HRE.

The famous "Reichsdeputations-Hauptschluß" from 1803 begins with a mention of the coalition wars, and describes it as a war "between his imperial majesty and the German Reich" on one side, and the French Republic on the other side. The closer we get to the age of nationalism, the more they emphasise the Germanic part.

I didn't look too deeply into it, but skimming a few older documents, there is no mention of the German(ic) part, other than mentioning it as part of the Roman Emperor's titles. This is from the document of the Peace of Westphalia from 1648: "FERDINANDUM II., Electum Romanorum Imperatorem semper Augustum, Germaniae, Hungariae, Bohemiae, Dalmatiae, Croatiae ..."

So no, the loss of Italy isn't what caused the trend to use German Reich or German Nation, as it precedes the secession of Italy.
 
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I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure about Bohemian succession practices. It does indeed seem to be the case that succession was effectively primogeniture, however, it is notable that Matthias needed to get his Austrian successor elected his Heir in both Bohemia and Hungary, since he was a cousin and not a son. This, of course, lead to the third Defenestration of Prague and helped to kickstart the Thirty Years War.

To me, you can either represent this with strong estates who are liable to start wars for claimants, or some form of elective monarchy which highly favours children of the current king, but not always.
The elections developed during the Přemyslids' reign, and gave the nobility the possibility to elect among all Přemyslid men, whereby seniority was to be respected. After the elevation of Bohemia to a kingdom with the Golden Bull of Sicily, King Přemysl I arranged for the election of his minor son in 1216, thereby basically abolishing the seniority principle. During the Přemyslid kings there were also other possibilities to mark out their successor (making them junior kings, granting them the title of Margrave of Moravia, ...), and this also applies to Charles IV who always stressed his Přemyslid heritage (he crowned Wenceslaus more than 15 years before his own death).

Those coronations of heirs while the old king still was alive were practiced also by Vladislav Jagiellon and the Habsburgs (Sigismund wanted to crown Albrecht, too, but he died too fast after the end of the First Hussite War). So Matthias arranging for the election and coronation of Ferdinand II wasn't something unusual. Matthias's predecessor Rudolf II was also elected and crowned a year before his father, Maximilian II, died. Maximilian II, too, was crowned two years before Ferdinand I died.

Now the situation was different when there was no 'accepted' heir. During Vladislav Jagiellon's reign a parliamentary decision was made in 1497 that the nobility could elect its own king if there was no legitimate heir. This only came into effect after Ludvik Jagiellon's death (see above), as he had no heirs of his own. The husband of his sister Anna would've become king if the marriage had been sanctioned by the estates, but this was not the case. Therefore Ferdinand I had to convince the estates to elect him (though his marriage was still an asset).
 
It doesn't say "of the German Nation", but he refers to the entire entity as "German Reich" half a dozen times. Specifically, he says that he lays down the Roman Kaisercrown of the German Reich, so he understood his rule as that of the Roman Emperor ruling over the German nation.

Naturally, I got curious, so I went back to documents from the 18th century. Let's take the "draft about the standing electorial chapter" from 1711 made by the Reichstag. It speaks of the "Roman king and emperor", who is placed above the "German Nation, the Holy Roman Empire" etc. (and yes, they put the "German Nation" before the HRE)

But that small thing aside, most (if not all) other documents from that century refer to the entity as the Holy Roman Empire and don't add anything like "of the German Nation". Interestingly, the HRE and German Reich as terms seem to be used interchangeably for each other. A decree from 1717 speaks of the estates of the Holy Roman Empire, and then uses German Reich in the same sentence to refer to the same entity he just called HRE.

That seems to be a pattern in the later years, because a quick look in another document (this time from 1752) had them talk about the "Teutsche Reichsverfassung" ("German Reichs-constitution"), referring to the judicial construct at the heart of the HRE.

The famous "Reichsdeputations-Hauptschluß" from 1803 begins with a mention of the coalition wars, and describes it as a war "between his imperial majesty and the German Reich" on one side, and the French Republic on the other side. The closer we get to the age of nationalism, the more they emphasise the Germanic part.

I didn't look too deeply into it, but skimming a few older documents, there is no mention of the German(ic) part, other than mentioning it as part of the Roman Emperor's titles. This is from the document of the Peace of Westphalia from 1648: "FERDINANDUM II., Electum Romanorum Imperatorem semper Augustum, Germaniae, Hungariae, Bohemiae, Dalmatiae, Croatiae ..."

So no, the loss of Italy isn't what caused the trend to use German Reich or German Nation, as it precedes the secession of Italy.
This is because the Holy Roman Empire is constitutionally speaking seperate from the Kingdom of Germany (German Reich).

The Italian Kingdom was officially cedes to France and its allies in 1801 so it wouldnt make sense in his abdication to speak of the Italian Kingdom. However the German Reich part refers to the Kingdom of Germany.

The Staatsverfassung books you refer to, if you actually look in them, like those by Johann Jacob Moser you will see that he divides his books into multiple sections, with a sepetate section about the constitution of the HRE, Germany and Italy. They were all seperate from eachother and thos estaatsverfassung works focus on Germany because they are written by German reichspublicisten who are more concerned with Germany than other parts.

Furthermore institutions like the Reichstag and Reichskammergericht ate institutions of the Kingdom of Germany, not the HRE.

And again, your document of 1803 isnt really relevant in this discussion because Italy was lost in 1801.
 
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