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Tinto Flavour #9 - 7th of March 2025 - Hungary

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays where we share with you the flavourish content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today we will take a look at one of my favourite countries to playtest the game, the Kingdom of Hungary!:

For centuries, the great Kingdom of Hungary defended the border of Christendom from the pagans and heathens beyond it. Recent noble rebellions put this duty in danger, but thanks to the iron hand of King d’Angiò Karoly, the disgruntled nobles have been reined back under his rule and the Christian bastion is renewed and reinforced.

However, the future of Hungary is not to dwell in peace, as already new trouble is brewing in the southeast that will challenge the strength of the Regnum Marianum.
Click to expand...

What fate awaits for the Kingdom of Hungary? Will it fall to the enemies of the faith? Or will it stand proud before the waves of those who seek its demise?

Country Selection.png

We are currently working to have a more settled dynastic flavour, but for the moment, the House of Anjou is taking its naming from the Italian variant of it, since it’s the main House, so take it as WIP; as any UI, 2D and 3D art, as usual.​

Here is Hungary:
Hungary.png


And its starting diplomatic situation:
Diplomacy.png

Poland is allied, while Croatia is in a personal union. Not shown on the map (yet) is that Hungary is embargoing Austria, as a result of the pact made with Bohemia.​

Hungary has a few interesting interesting starting privileges:
Monetary Fiefs.png

This is not a unique privilege, but a generic one that we created taking into account Hungary’s situation in 1337; a few countries across Europe also start with it enacted.

Invite German Settlers.png

We already showed this privilege in Tinto Flavour #1, if you remember. ​

By having it active, it may trigger this recurrent event:
Invite German Settlers2.png

Invite German Settlers3.png

Classical flavour Parliament:
Orszaggyules.png

And starting works of art:
Works of Art.png

Here are some interesting advances for Hungary:
Realm of Many Cultures.png

This advance helps Hungary manage all the different cultures it starts with and also portrays a historical policy followed by many Hungarian kings in the Middle Ages.

Composite Light Cavalry.png

Cumans!

Found the Black Army.png

Hungarian Black Army.png

Among the several options we had available to portray the infamous Black Army, we decided upon making them a regular Infantry unit. We thought about making it a unique mercenary company, but since they were usually directly on the payroll of the Hungarian kings, we thought that it would work better as a recruitable unique unit.​

A couple of war-oriented advances for the Age of Reformation:
Bulwark of Christianity.png

Hungarian Hussars.png

Hungarian Hussars2.png

There’s a generic Hussar cavalry unit, that is available in the Age of Absolutism. This means that Hungary gets its unique Hussar cavalry unit one age earlier. They aren’t the only country with unique Hussar units, but we will show those in future Tinto Flavour…​

Also in the Age of Reformation, you will get these advances depending on which religion you follow; the first is for a Catholic Hungary, and the other two for a Protestant Hungary:
Catholic Shield.png

Hungarian Reformation.png

Realm of Many Religions.png

We will explain what ‘Religious Influence’ and ‘Church Power Actions’ are in the Tinto Talks devoted to Catholicism and Protestantism, respectively. For the moment, we let you decide which religion is the True Faith, and which are Heretical and Heathen to you.​

Let’s now move to the narrative content for Hungary, which is really interesting in the first years of a game, since lots of historical events happened in real life...

Soon after the start of the game, you’ll get this event, showing the power of King Károly:
Absolute Rule.png

Absolute Rule2.png

Absolute Rule3.png

Absolute Rule4.png

An additional Cabinet Seat during the king’s life is a really strong bonus!​

This event may also trigger on a dynamic date:
Congress of Visegrad.jpg

Congress of Visegrad2.png

Union of Crown.png

This eventually may lead to a follow-up event, which also unlocks a unique diplomatic relation:
Congress of Visegrad3.png

Union of Crowns Pact.png

It doesn’t necessarily mean that both may unite, if both have an heir, as historically happened. For instance, this is from the gameplay I was doing to take the screenshots:
Regency.png

During the reign of King Lajos, a few more interesting events happened:
Gold of Hungary.png

Gold of Hungary2.png

Gold of Hungary3.png

Gold of Hungary4.png

A very interesting event… I reported no less than 4 issues to fix when it got triggered!

Order of Saint George.png

Order of Saint George2.png

An interesting character to recruit…:
Toldi Miklos.png

Oh, and you may also be a secondary character in a Neapolitan plot…:
Neapolitan Prince.png

…And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week, on Monday we will have the Tinto Maps Feedback for Arabia, and on Friday we will take a look at the Kingdom of Scotland! @SaintDaveUK and @Roger Corominas will reply instead of me for the later, as I have to take a flight that afternoon. Cheers!
 
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DamixDatrox said:
Remember to change Bosnias flag to blue before you ship the game! unless you think crypto-jews run the globe!
https://wiki.royalfamily.ba/wiki/Kotromanići

Kripto-Jevreji Balkana - Wikipedia Rojalista

wiki-royalfamily-ba.translate.goog wiki-royalfamily-ba.translate.goog
Click to expand...

I'm gonna need some more context here. The Google translation shows this is some weird wiki talking about "crypto-jews" in the Balkans/Bosnia, but where's this claim involving the Bosnian flag? What's exactly wrong with it?
 
Pavía said:
It's a unique one.
Click to expand...
Is it unique as in only this event can have it, or can Hungary/Poland do it with other nations? In 1506 the Habsburgs and Jagiellonians (specifically Vladislaus of Bohemia and Hungary) agreed to a mutual-succession treaty. They reinforced this at the first Congress of Vienna (just wanna mention how cool it is that its exactly 300 years earlier than the more famous one) with a double marriage. This is how the Habsburgs got Bohemia and Hungary (well, the western third) for the final time. The king of Bohemia and Hungary, Vladislaus, did by this time move to Hungary, so as the senior member of the union, I'm assuming by game mechanics this means that "Hungary" was the one to make the pact with "Austria". I personally don't know any examples outside this region, so maybe it could be just a Hungary-Poland-Bohemia thing, but it shouldn't be a one time event thing.

Also, I don't remember there being a Tinto talks about succession/succession wars, so I though that I'd mention it here. Hungary, Poland and Bohemia all had a weird half-elective succession. I can't say much about the latter two, but in Hungary's case, theres a few points I'd like to ask about for historical accuracy:

1. Son-in-laws usually inherit if there is no son. After Louis the Great died, his daughters succeeded him in Poland (Hedwig) and Hungary (Maria, although there was a small succession crisis with Charles the small of Durazzo). Hedwig married Jogaila who became the Polish king, Maria married Sigismund of Luxembourg who became Hungarian king. After Sigismund of Luxembourg died (again, without a son), it wasn't really his daughter Elisabeth who succeeded him, but her husband Albert, who became king of Hungary and Bohemia.

2. In eu4 succession wars, the country usually chose the allied country and with their new senior partner went to war with their rival. The problem with this, is that different nobles sometimes chose a different successor. Like how this Charles d'Anjou became king. It was contested by Wenceclaus, son of Wenceclaus II. The northern-western and western nobles supported Wenceclaus, others supported Charles. Later other claimants joined in. Or after 1526, the succession war wasn't between two foreigners, but between Ferdinand von Habsburg and the local noble John Zapolya. I'm mainly mentioning succession wars because although "elections" were a thing, often the electors elected different rulers, so if some sort of elective is implemented for Hungary, please keep that in mind.
 
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Ispil said:
I mean, PUs and all the rest of it still exist. It's just a very specific, negotiated union which generally speaking wasn't nearly as common as just inheriting some other title.
Click to expand...
PUs are already a thing in EUIV and had an entire TT of their own for not-EUV. It's not exactly a secret they exist, so it should be rather clear their existence is not really relevant to me being disappointed that another option of expanding through diplomatic means is not going to be present in the game. And the rarity argument does nothing when a specific instance of an inheritance deal is by definition less common than inheritance deals in general, yet this one is present in the game for reasons none other than painting a normal international agreement at the times as super special for the sake of artificially creating tag-specific flavor.
 
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koreanjesus218 said:
Is it unique as in only this event can have it, or can Hungary/Poland do it with other nations? In 1506 the Habsburgs and Jagiellonians (specifically Vladislaus of Bohemia and Hungary) agreed to a mutual-succession treaty. They reinforced this at the first Congress of Vienna (just wanna mention how cool it is that its exactly 300 years earlier than the more famous one) with a double marriage. This is how the Habsburgs got Bohemia and Hungary (well, the western third) for the final time. The king of Bohemia and Hungary, Vladislaus, did by this time move to Hungary, so as the senior member of the union, I'm assuming by game mechanics this means that "Hungary" was the one to make the pact with "Austria". I personally don't know any examples outside this region, so maybe it could be just a Hungary-Poland-Bohemia thing, but it shouldn't be a one time event thing.
Click to expand...
Not just these three. Bohemia tried to make such a deal with Brandenburg at one point (ultimately didn't pan out and they just invaded). Ottokar II gained Carinthia, Carniola and the Windic March that way as well. Now, that's still one of the countries you mentioned on the receiving end of things, but different countries making the deals with them. And there are also other examples elsewhere, some of which had massive historical ramifications (though so did Austria's deal with Bohemia-Hungary you already mentioned).

Both times the Valois-Anjou dukes of Anjou and Provence gained a claim on Naples was when two separate childless female rulers of Naples made inheritance deals with them on two different occasions a few generations apart (and no, that does not follow normal EUV's PU rules mentioned in their TT, because there were no marriage ties and the deals bypassed existing valid claimants from the other branch of the Capetian House of Anjou those female rulers were from). By extension, this is how French kings gained a claim on Naples after the Valois-Anjou branch died out as well. Ditto for Aragon's claim on Naples when the latter of Naples' female rulers reneged on her deal with Anjou-Provence and made a new one with Ferdinand I.

Burgundy on the other hand made an inheritance deal with Elizabeth of Görlitz, Duchess of Luxembourg (even if ultimately Philip III of Burgundy couldn't be bothered to wait for her to die and invaded two years after making that deal). A variation of that where the deal was a result of a peace treaty is how Philip III also gained the counties of Holland, Zeeland and Hainaut (due to it being a result of a peace treaty, with an added provision that their current ruler could not marry - and therefore potentially produce a heir of her own - without Philip's consent).
 
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nmcj1996 said:
Gotcha. And I assume by that you mean that Al Andalus / Purple Phoenix aren’t considered plausible (as I guess realistically they’re on the very edge case of plausible if at all).
Click to expand...
Well the List from TT50 called Al Andalus plausible and put Byzantium on the same level of plausability as Russia and the USA.

Formable1.png


Edit: Then again, I think it was said somewhere that at release there will only be Flavor for historical stuff.

Edit 2: found the quote
 
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Let me add some more map lol. One for comparison - one just to illustrate that the most sever border changes affected Székelyland. Many previous székely village is now not part of the county of Hargita or Kovászna, but part of the county of Neamt and Bacau.

Transylvania 2.png


Székely_counties_towns.PNG
 
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The catholic shield feels like it should be a generic advance rather than a Hungarian one. It should trigger on a large European Catholic nation adjacent to a large European Muslim one.

If the Serbs grow at Hungary's expense then they might be the Christian shield against the Ottomans.
If the Ottomans don't grow then no one might be the Christian shield
If the Ottomans don't grow but Crimea does, then maybe the Christian shield is Poland or Lithuania.
If Granada takes over Iberia then maybe France is the Christian shield!
 
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One aspect of the (in game early) kingdom of Hungary was that they gave generous landgrants to foreign rulers (like the Brankovic of Serbia) to make them accept a vassal status and ensure their loyalty (as disloyalty would result in them loosing their significant holdings in Hungary). The kings could afford this because of the massive amount of land concentrated in their own hand. Could this somehow be portrayed in the game?

I think it would be both historical and an interesting mechanic.
 
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@Pavía , there is any content regarding:
  • the palatine of Hungary (there were other high positions like the Royal Judge or the Master of the Treasury, but the Palatine is specially relevant)
  • Cumans or székely minorities .
  • Granting the status of Royal Cities in Hungary and interacting with them
  • Slavonia and its autonomy (as different from Croatia's vassal)
  • Syrmia and or Belgrade frontiers (both for serbian minorities migrating but also as a frontier to defend against southern expansion)
  • Mining in the Hungarian Ore Mountains and associated international events (Fuggers, Thurzó...)
  • Those german settlers organizing
  • Pawns to either Austria or Poland
One question I have is whether the "monetary fiefs" priviledge is supposed to activate the county system. If so, I think it is underdeveloped for flavour, since it may open more things that some numerical modifiers.

Also, I think the Tinto Flavour diaries are interesting but I miss being able to discuss events later than the game start. E.g. I'm particularly interested in how the XVI century events of Habsburg and turk advances are going to be represented. Would there be specific DD for that?
 
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Pavía said:
Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays where we share with you the flavourish content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today we will take a look at one of my favourite countries to playtest the game, the Kingdom of Hungary!:



What fate awaits for the Kingdom of Hungary? Will it fall to the enemies of the faith? Or will it stand proud before the waves of those who seek its demise?

View attachment 1262353
We are currently working to have a more settled dynastic flavour, but for the moment, the House of Anjou is taking its naming from the Italian variant of it, since it’s the main House, so take it as WIP; as any UI, 2D and 3D art, as usual.​

Here is Hungary:
View attachment 1262314

And its starting diplomatic situation:
View attachment 1262259
Poland is allied, while Croatia is in a personal union. Not shown on the map (yet) is that Hungary is embargoing Austria, as a result of the pact made with Bohemia.​

Hungary has a few interesting interesting starting privileges:
View attachment 1262260
This is not a unique privilege, but a generic one that we created taking into account Hungary’s situation in 1337; a few countries across Europe also start with it enacted.

View attachment 1262261
We already showed this privilege in Tinto Flavour #1, if you remember. ​

By having it active, it may trigger this recurrent event:

Classical flavour Parliament:

And starting works of art:

Here are some interesting advances for Hungary:
View attachment 1262268
This advance helps Hungary manage all the different cultures it starts with and also portrays a historical policy followed by many Hungarian kings in the Middle Ages.

View attachment 1262279
Cumans!

View attachment 1262280
View attachment 1262281
Among the several options we had available to portray the infamous Black Army, we decided upon making them a regular Infantry unit. We thought about making it a unique mercenary company, but since they were usually directly on the payroll of the Hungarian kings, we thought that it would work better as a recruitable unique unit.​

A couple of war-oriented advances for the Age of Reformation:
View attachment 1262282
View attachment 1262283
View attachment 1262286
There’s a generic Hussar cavalry unit, that is available in the Age of Absolutism. This means that Hungary gets its unique Hussar cavalry unit one age earlier. They aren’t the only country with unique Hussar units, but we will show those in future Tinto Flavour…​

Also in the Age of Reformation, you will get these advances depending on which religion you follow; the first is for a Catholic Hungary, and the other two for a Protestant Hungary:
View attachment 1262287
View attachment 1262288
View attachment 1262289
We will explain what ‘Religious Influence’ and ‘Church Power Actions’ are in the Tinto Talks devoted to Catholicism and Protestantism, respectively. For the moment, we let you decide which religion is the True Faith, and which are Heretical and Heathen to you.​

Let’s now move to the narrative content for Hungary, which is really interesting in the first years of a game, since lots of historical events happened in real life...

Soon after the start of the game, you’ll get this event, showing the power of King Károly:
View attachment 1262354
View attachment 1262291
View attachment 1262292
View attachment 1262293
An additional Cabinet Seat during the king’s life is a really strong bonus!​

This event may also trigger on a dynamic date:

This eventually may lead to a follow-up event, which also unlocks a unique diplomatic relation:

It doesn’t necessarily mean that both may unite, if both have an heir, as historically happened. For instance, this is from the gameplay I was doing to take the screenshots:

During the reign of King Lajos, a few more interesting events happened:
View attachment 1262357
View attachment 1262303
View attachment 1262304
View attachment 1262305
A very interesting event… I reported no less than 4 issues to fix when it got triggered!

View attachment 1262306
View attachment 1262307​

An interesting character to recruit…:

Oh, and you may also be a secondary character in a Neapolitan plot…:

…And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week, on Monday we will have the Tinto Maps Feedback for Arabia, and on Friday we will take a look at the Kingdom of Scotland! @SaintDaveUK and @Roger Corominas will reply instead of me for the later, as I have to take a flight that afternoon. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Are the weird plastic portraits still a WIP? They look really bad. Like they all have fetal alcohol syndrome or something
 
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Zaragoza said:
  • Syrmia and or Belgrade frontiers (both for serbian minorities migrating but also as a frontier to defend against southern expansion)
Click to expand...

In what century you mean? Because Syrmia/Szerémség barely had any serbian minorities at the time. It had absolute Hungarian majority until the mid 1400's. The turn for the serbs favor has happened in the 17-18th century.
 
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Perfect opportunity to also add some Albania flavor!
Could be in the form of the wars against Stephan Dusan, the development of new Albanian principalities all over Epirus Nova and Epirus Vetus and the struggles between them on who will be the one to unite Albania whilst at the same time trying to cooperate at times to prevent being overtaken by neighboring powers, and then culminate with the rise of Skanderbeg and the League of Lezhë if Albania hasn't been united already, or if it has been already united (and not by the Kastrioti), then some event that still has Skanderbeg rise as a general and noble in Albania.
 
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Since most of Croatia (Banska Slavonia) is directly under Hungarian rule, is there an event or possibility for these provinces to unite with the Kingdom of Croatia?
 
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Materloo said:
In what century you mean? Because Syrmia/Szerémség barely had any serbian minorities at the time. It had absolute Hungarian majority until the mid 1400's. The turn for the serbs favor has happened in the 17-18th century.
Click to expand...
For that I was thinking more about the end of the XV century and beginning of XVI. I may have misplaced geographically between historical Syrmia (today split between Croatia and Serbia), Banat (today split between Serbia, Hungary and Romania) and the southwest of Transilvania (today in Romania).

My focus were people like Pavle Bakić, Jovan Nenad and Peter Petrovics, which were important military leaders in Hungary in the XV-XVI centuries. After the fall of the Serbian empire, Hungary had established a Banate in Belgrade as well as the banate of Macso I linked. Those territories are in the kingdom of Hungary as soon as the beginning of the XV century.

The turkish advance meant Belgrade fell in 1521 and I read several times episodes of people fleeding north since then into areas like Arad or Syrmia. I'm not saying they were a majority, but serbian nobles like Petrovics start appearing in positions like Ban of Lugos and Karánsebes in the XVI century or Radoslav Čelnik in Syrmia. They are obviously a minority but they seem to be relevant from a military point of view. When Habsburg and Zapolyas are in conflict there seems to be a serbian prohabsburg and serbian prozapolya factions.

It feels like something that can be modelled in game as the german settler chain Pavia presented. If the turks take locations in Serbia, it may trigger events for Hungary similar to the german settlers, offering the player the option to reject refugees, settling them in one border region or settling there in another. Taking the refugees would increase population and development, but by adding a minority population.
 
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I just want to say how much I am looking forward to all of this and also that I never really wanted to play Hungary in the previous versions, but here I am excited for it. Hungary in the 14th century was not only powerful, but it was one of the cultural centers of Europe and I wonder if it will be possible to continue that track and make it into a modern power.
 
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