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Tinto Maps #10 - 12th of July 2024 - Syrian Levant & Egypt

Hello everyone, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! We’re back after celebrating the most important victories over Germany and France since the 30 Years War a hard week of work, and we’re ready to share with you the region of the Syrian Levant & Egypt (actually, we’re revealing a bit more of what those regions would be, to cover the complete extension of the Mamlūk Sultanate). Let’s go!

Countries:
Countries.png

The Mamlūk Sultanate is the main power of the region, a situation achieved after the defeat of the Mongols at the Battles of Ain Jalut and Marj al-Saffar, and the fall of Acre, the last stronghold of the Crusader states in Outremer. The latter's legacy is still handled by the Kingdom of Cyprus, ruled by Hugues IV of Lusignan. Apart from that, we can see the realm of Candia, a subject governed by the Serene Republic of Venice, and some Arabic tribes, such as the Hutaym and the Anizah. Oh, and also, to the south-west, you might have noticed some oases ruled by either the Mamluks, or Fezzan; I opted for not coloring the wastelands, as usual, but also the corridors, a type of terrain present in other GSGs, that we have in Project Caesar. I’ll talk more about them under the ‘Locations’ section of the DD, but I just want to note one more thing: the connection down the Nile is a regular one, with a border existing between the Mamluks and Makuria (the country that controls the small chunk of land at the very south of the image).

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The Bahri Mamluks have ruled the Sultanate since they deposed the Ayyubids, almost a century before the start of the game. It could maybe be a bit more accurate to depict Sultan al-Nasir Muhammad as an ibn Qalawun (‘of the lineage of Qalawun’), but the dynastical dynamics of the Mamluk rulers are not so easy to portray, so we opted for the moment to better use Bahriyya. Apart from that, you may also see the neighboring dynasties, such as the already-mentioned House of Lusignan, or the Hethumian of Cilicia.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
Here you can see the locations of the entire region, and also closer chunks behind the ‘Spoiler’ button. The most interesting feature to talk about is that of the corridors, something that some of you might remember from ‘Imperator: Rome’, but also something new to the rest. The corridors are empty locations, with no population or resources, but that allows connection between the locations at their sides, for some mechanics that we’ve already mentioned (market access, control), and some others that we haven’t (army movement). This is the way that we’ve chosen to portray the Saharan corridors, that allow for a connection between the Maghreb and the Mashreq, and Western and Central Africa. There are also some regular locations over those corridors, with population, resources, etc., that can be controlled by countries, which portray the desert oases that made for important outposts in the different Saharan routes. Not all the connections are throughout corridors, though; outside of the image, the Nile River valley allows for regular locations all the way down from Egypt to Nubia, the last location held by the Mamluks being that of Aswan, while the first held by Makuria, not shown in the screenshot, being Qasr Ibrim. We will talk more about Nubia and Ethiopia in a future Tinto Maps.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Usual provinces mapmode; please let us know of any spelling or naming suggestions that come to your mind.

Areas:
Areas.png

A new mapmode that has been requested in previous Tinto Maps, and that we’re now incorporating.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

The climate is dominated by a mix of Mediterranean, Arid, and Cold Arid. The topography of the region is quite flat, with some hills and mountains on Mount Lebanon and Anti-Lebanon, Mount Sinai, and the verge of the Arabian plateau; and some marshland over the Nile Delta, of course. Regarding the vegetation, desert and sparse vegetation dominate most of the region, with some woods and forests over Levant, and the Nile fertile farmlands, the bread basket of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here starts the fun… Those countries ruling over the Middle East will face the challenge of managing several different cultural minorities. Libyan, Egyptian, Sa'idi, Bedouin, Ḥijāzī, Najidi (the green one to their right), Levantine, and Iraqi (the light blue at the top right of the picture) are all different regional cultures of Arabic-speaking people. Something interesting is that most of Bedouin pops are tribesmen, instead of peasants, portraying their traditional social organization. Coming to important minority groups, Coptic people are quite important in Egypt, accounting for about 10% of the population of the Mamlūk Sultanate. The other important minority are the Syriacs, as they also account for another 10% of the population, and are a cultural majority in a few locations. Apart from those, there are also Armenians, Kurds, and Turkomans on the divide between Anatolia, Syria, and Jazira, Alawites Shiites in Syria, Mizrahi Jews all over the region, Samaritans in Palestine, and Greeks in Crete, Cyprus, and some in Alexandria. Oh, also the Saharan cultures of the Eastern Berbers and the Toubou over some of the Saharan oases.

Religions:
Religion.png

More fun. In this region, we have:
  • Sunni Muslims
  • Miaphysite Christians
  • Orthodox Christians
  • Shia Muslims
  • Catholic Christians
  • Druzes
  • Jews
  • Nestorian Christians (the ‘label’ we’re using to depict the Church of the East)
  • Samaritans
  • Yazidi

Relating these religions to the previous cultures, we can tell you most of the Arabic-speaking cultures are Sunni Muslims, with some Shia Muslims in Syria and Lebanon. Most of the Coptic are Miaphysite, adhering to the Patriarchate of Alexandria, although some of there still follow the Orthodoxy of Constantinople. The Syriacs are also religiously divided, with some being Nestorians (the current name we have to cover the confessions related to the Church of the East), some Miaphysites, some Orthodox, and even some Catholics in Lebanon. And then we have some cultural-religious minorities, such as the Alawite Shiites, the Druzes (which are of Levantine culture), the Mizrahi Jews, the Samaritans, and the Yazidi (which are of Kurd culture).


Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

There are some materials that are more unique to this region, such as the Dates in the arid fringes. The Nile Valley and Delta are incredibly fertile, having plenty of different crops: Wheat, Rice, Legumes, Sugar, Cotton, Fiber Crops (=Linen), etc. Livestock, Wool, and Horses are also important resources for the people across the region. There are also some metals present in the region, such as Copper in Cyprus and around the Red Sea, Iron, Tin, some Lead, and some interesting sources of Alum.

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Alexandria (yeah, it’s there! I’ve already reported its weird name-wrapping and one of our programmers is going to take a look at it) for the Mashreq, Damascus for the Syrian Levant and Mecca for the Hejaz.

Country and Location Population:
Country Population .png

Location Population 1.png

Location Population 2.png

Location Population 3.png
The population of the region points to Egypt being its powerhouse, with several million people being supported being the Nile Valley and Delta. Apart from that, the Syrian Levant has a very decent population, making the Mamlūk Sultanate a dreadful rival to have in 1337. The arid fringes make for a way more difficult food production and population sustainability, making them more of strategic value, by their position, resources, etc.

And that’s all for today! Next week @Johan will show you Scandinavia, the very first map that was crafted for Project Caesar! Cheers!
 
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I mentioned this in the Anatolia feedback thread, but I'll quote myself and mention it here as well:

Also, there should be one more state in the region, to represent the Döğer tribe.

doger-png.1185609

It should be, like the Dulkadirids, a subject of the Mamluks. They should rule the Mamluk-owned Ar-Ruha and Ar-Raqqah provinces. Yes, I realize that this is more a suggestion for the Levant TT, but their relevance is mostly in Anatolia at this time.
 
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Additionally, I would say that the Mamluks should have a vassal nomadic tribe, the Al Fadl, in control of... well, I'd just be quoting Wikipedia, so I'll just provide the link. They occasionally clashed with the Döğer for the areas in which they bordered each other.

During the Mamluk era, the Al Fadl's territory spanned the area between Homs in the west to Qal'at Ja'bar in the northeast and all along the Euphrates valley through the countryside of Basra southward to the Washm region in central Najd.

Probably the best way to represent this would be to just give them Deir ez-Zor (the whole province), Tadmur (the whole province), and Al-Rahba (the location).
 
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1. Egyptians have one culture. They're some minor differences between the north and the south, but it's still the same culture.

2. If you want to divide Egypt into two cultures you should make it "Bahari" in the north and "Saidi" in the south. Dividing it into "Egyptian" and "Saidi" means that Saidi is not Egyptian which is not accurate and disrespectful towards Saidis.
 
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1. Egyptians have one culture. They're some minor differences between the north and the south, but it's still the same culture.

2. If you want to divide Egypt into two cultures you should make it "Bahari" in the north and "Saidi" in the south. Dividing it into "Egyptian" and "Saidi" means that Saidi is not Egyptian which is not accurate and disrespectful towards Saidis.
How about Masri?
 
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Masri is Egyptian. All Egyptians are Masri. Egyptians call Egypt 'Masr'
I'm not an expert on the matter and I know that wikipedia it's not the most trustable source, but it says that in language terms Egyptian(Masri) is only spoken in lower Egypt and in upper Egypt another language(or arabian dialect) is spoken, which is Sa'idi(upper Egyptian), do you know why is that the case?
 
I'm not an expert on the matter and I know that wikipedia it's not the most trustable source, but it says that in language terms Egyptian(Masri) is only spoken in lower Egypt and in upper Egypt another language(or arabian dialect) is spoken, which is Sa'idi(upper Egyptian), do you know why is that the case?
Saidi is an accent not a dialect. It's the same dialect but with neglectable differences in pronunciations. The reason they call the one in lower Egypt 'Masri' is that the north is more populous, prosperous and infeluential. Besides the capital city of Cairo and Alexandria are in lower Egypt. These two cities alone make roughly a quarter of the population (Over 20 million).
 
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I hope the Mizrahi Jewish culture is not actually called that, since applying that term ("Eastern") to the Jews from the Muslim world is a modern innovation. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm inclined to recommend that you join all the Jewish cultures, excluding the Karaim and Samaritans, into one. The linguistic diversity of world Jewry goes well beyond the Iberian/Yiddish/Arabic division most people presumably know about, and ultimately, did it really matter? That diversity just goes to show that, when not cut off from the rest of society, Jews have usually tended to adopt the language that was most practical to them. (A point reinforced by the earlier loss, and later revival, of Hebrew.) The feeling of linguistic separation between Jews speaking different languages would never have been as strong as the sense of religious separation between Jews and the nearest Muslims or especially Christians. Whereas religion was, until secularization began in the 19th century, the core of their identity. As a minority everywhere, and not a particularly liked one, what united them (faith, and the liturgical language it came with) would have weighed far more heavily than what separated them (vernacular language).

Like the Alawites and potentially the Jews, the Druzes and the Maronites should also have their own cultures.

Break up the Syriac culture even further to create a Melkite one for those whose religious loyalties were with Constantinople and who employed neither of the Syriac Rites. Those in the southern Levant would have spoken Arabic for centuries, while those in the north had long began a process of Arabization regardless of whether or not it was complete by this point.

The Levantine culture should be limited to Arabic-speaking Sunnis and mainstream (non-Alawite, non-Druze) Shiites. And probably renamed to something else at this point.

The Sa'idi culture should perhaps be absorbed into the Egyptian one. At any rate, I certainly wouldn't reserve the term Egyptian for just the people of northern Egypt. Even if one decides to count the southerners as a different culture, it shouldn't be implied that they're non-Egyptian, or at least less Egyptian than the northerners. Sa'id just means "Highland" anyway, so call the 2 cultures Upper and Lower Egyptians if you think they shouldn't be joined.

Al Majdal should probably be renamed Jaffa.

Filastin is ahistorical, as the name doesn't seem to have been used since the Abbasids, and always excluded Galilee. I too would create a new location of Tyre out of Sidon, and join it with Safed and Acre (perhaps renamed Haifa - both places were quite unimportant in 1337) to create a new province of Safed & Tyre. The rest of Filastin should be renamed Jerusalem & Gaza.

There are some traditional regions of Lebanon that I'd like to see squeezed in between the mountains and the sea if room can be made for them: Chouf, Akkar, Keserwan, and Matn. In the case of Chouf, there's already a location between Sidon and Beirut in just about the right place; I can't make out its name, but it's something longer. Frankly, if your approach to locations in Western Europe is going to be that granular, you could at the very least double the number in this part of the map. Lebanon would be its Switzerland, and don't even get me started on Egypt.

Actually, do get me a little bit started on Egypt. Once you've increased the number of locations in the Delta, you can replace the current provinces into something closer to the traditional set-up: West Hawf, East Hawf, Batn al-Rif, and possibly Bashmur and Buhayra.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/39325578.pdf (page 215 of the PDF, which corresponds to page 195 of the monograph, and the map at the end)

The boundary between Lower and Upper Egypt looks weird, and clearly I'm not the only one to think so. I endorse moving El Minya to Upper Egypt and the Western Oases to Cyrenaica. To the east, El Qoseir and Safaga should be transferred from the Red Sea Coast (renamed to something more specific) to Aswan (renamed Aswan & Safaga).
 
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Apologies if someone has already brought this up, but will there be an event or something for Catholicism to start spreading among the Assyrians of northern Iraq? This historically happened in the late 1500s, there seems to have been a schism within the Church of the East over discontent with hereditary succession of the patriarch. Today I believe more Assyrians/Chaldeans are (eastern) Catholic than belong to the Church of the East (aka "Nestorians").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaldean_Catholic_Church#1552_schism
 
Apologies if someone has already brought this up, but will there be an event or something for Catholicism to start spreading among the Assyrians of northern Iraq? This historically happened in the late 1500s, there seems to have been a schism within the Church of the East over discontent with hereditary succession of the patriarch. Today I believe more Assyrians/Chaldeans are (eastern) Catholic than belong to the Church of the East (aka "Nestorians").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaldean_Catholic_Church#1552_schism
Honestly I don't think, with how the devs are approaching things, that they can really capture this with the systems they've presented.

Now, me with the mods I've got planned? Things like this are exactly the sort of things that I want to capture, and have a way to do so.

The only thing that I can't work out is how to best represent the other, later schisms that led to three Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch. Or at least, I can't work out a good system that actually allows for having three and properly distributing which Catholic pop belongs to which church.
 
Honestly I don't think, with how the devs are approaching things, that they can really capture this with the systems they've presented.

Now, me with the mods I've got planned? Things like this are exactly the sort of things that I want to capture, and have a way to do so.

The only thing that I can't work out is how to best represent the other, later schisms that led to three Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch. Or at least, I can't work out a good system that actually allows for having three and properly distributing which Catholic pop belongs to which church.
Why not? I'm not talking about any patriarchates or anything, really just meant some Nestorian pops will start flipping to Catholic. And if the eastern catholics elsewhere have a unique mechanic or two, the Chaldeans get it too. Detail about the actual historical circumstances might be nice but as you said, might be mod territory.
 
Why not? I'm not talking about any patriarchates or anything, really just meant some Nestorian pops will start flipping to Catholic. And if the eastern catholics elsewhere have a unique mechanic or two, the Chaldeans get it too. Detail about the actual historical circumstances might be nice but as you said, might be mod territory.
I mean, they can do that, but it just seems so... shallow.
 
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Posting this on behalf of @settstones, who for whatever reason cannot. He has offered a great many suggested improvements to the Palestine region.

The main change needed to the map is just significantly more provinces tbh. Here they’ve gone from 5 to 10 in Lebanon (“Sidon” split to Saida and Sur, Jbeil from Beirut and Tarablus, Baalbek split into four) and from 8 to 12 in Palestine (“Acre” into ‘Akka, Haifa and Qaysaria, Jenin from Safad and Nablus, Al Majdal into Yafa and Ramleh). Location density here is still lower than in most of Western Europe, and pops per location isn’t significantly lower. Lebanon is split into the Mount Lebanon and Beqaa, with Sur and northern Palestine into the Galilee, though I’m still not sure what to do with the rest of Palestine. There could be a coast/uplands Philistia/J&S divide, but that is (A) not so historically accurate (Jaffa and Caesarea were never part of Philistia iirc, and it wasn’t really a regional divide acknowledged much by anyone throughout the period) and (B) quite politically charged? If that’s not impolite to say. Names in Arabic, old French and Greek for Arab or Muslim states, Crusaders and Romans, and my best estimates as a Palestinian for Musta’arabi Hebrew in case of any Jewish tags. English names for our benefit, though they can be used as a localisation for English occupation. I do not know Greek, so the localisations are probably too modern and inaccurate.

I do think it’s inaccurate to take the actively depopulated development level of the region as an indication of how dense it should be simulated, since the depopulation of the coast and relative underdevelopment of the West Bank, Megiddo &c was an active policy choice that the player could (and probably would) choose to not undertake, especially if they’re playing from Jerusalem rather than Cairo or Constantinople.

I am not Lebanese, so if there are any inaccuracies, it is not my fault, and you shouldn’t say anything about them or I’ll cry.

View attachment 1167101
New locations and provinces overlaid on the current ones.

View attachment 1167102
Goods production.

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Foliage, terrain and climate zones.

View attachment 1167107
Possible name localisations for (modern) English, Arabic, Greek (Byzantine where possible), old French and Hebrew (medieval, as much as I could estimate).

Attached is a list of the location changes, with explanations where appropriate. I've spoilered it because it's quite lengthy.
Mount Lebanon
"Lubnan, Livanos, Liban"

Tripoli
"Tarablus, Tripolis, Tripoli"
Medi Hill Forests
Second largest city today, very important throughout the period to the Muslims, Latins and Byzantines. Centre of a crusader polity.

Byblos
"Jbeil, Vyvlos, Byblos"
Medi Mountain Forests
Also very important to Crusaders and Muslims alike.

Beirut
"Beirut, Virytos, Baruth"
Medi Mountain Forests
Obviously.

Deir el-Qamar
"Deir El Qamar, Deir Elcamar"
Medi Mountain Forests
I’ve put silk down here as silk was harvested in the environs and was a very important export.

Sidon
"Saida, Sidonas, Sagette"
Medi Plateau Forests

Coele-Syria
"Beq’aa"

Hermel
"Hermel"
Medi Flat Grasslands

Baalbek
"B’albek"
Medi Flat Farmlands

Bar Elias
"Bar Elias"
Medi Flat Grasslands

Hasbaya
"Hasbaya"
Medi Mountain Forests
Honestly all the Beqaa being one location is silly. Three locations needed minimum, for the Mount Hermon (Hasbaya), and for the ethnoreligious and geographical differences between the upper and lower valley. Baalbek could be split between Bar Elias and Hermel, though whichever location the town ends up should be renamed Baalbek. I’ve put four here to match the location density of the coast, and to better represent the granularity of Lebanon’s religious divides.

Galilee
"Al Jalil, Ha Galil, Galilaia, Galilée"

Tyre
"Sur, Sur, Tyros, Tyre"
Medi Plateau Woods
Very important for the crusader/byzantine larp, indispensable. Fourth largest city today, historically always one of the largest in the Levant.

Acre
"‘Akka, ‘Akko, Akras, Acre"
Medi Hill Woods
Likewise w/ the larp lol. Always an important Palestinian city, populated throughout the period and a centre of a later Ottoman sanjak.

Safad
"Safad, Sefat, Saphant, Saphet"
Medi Hill Farmland
Holds a large Jewish community iirc. Could be Tiberias for the larp, but Safad was significantly more important throughout the period. Obviously, the region around the Jordan and Tiberias deserve to be distinct from the uplands of the Galilee. Very fertile flatlands, thougghhhh I think I have them as hills :0

Haifa
"Haifa, Haifa, Hepha, Caiphas"
Medi Plateau Grasslands
Very important port city, of course. Indispensable.

Palestine?
"Filistin, Palestina, Palestina, Palestine"

Caesarea
"Qaysaria, Qaysaria, Kaisareia, Caesarea"
Medi Plateau Forests
At this point largely forested and depopulated in contrast to the environs of Jaffa and Nazareth, and centre of a crusader lordship, so worthy of distinction.

Jenin
"Jenin, Jenin, Ginae, Grand Guerin"
Medi Plateau Woods
Jenin was more important throughout the period than Nazareth [Nasira, Nasrat, Nazara, Nazareth], but the latter could be picked for the larp value. Muslim majority, has a very large Christian minority.

Nablus
"Nablus, Shekhem, Neapolis, Naples"
Medi Plateau Woods
Important city to both the Crusaders, Mamelukes and Ottomans, and housed a large Christian and small Samaritan minority. If only one location per name is permitted, it could be called Naplouse, though I don’t know how historically accurate that’d be.

Jaffa
"Yafa, Yafo, Ioppa, Japhe"
Medi Plateau Grasslands
Grows to be the most important city in Palestine besides Jerusalem by the end of the period, and Jerusalem’s pseudo port. Famous for its oranges, hence the fruit, though iirc they were only cultivated in large sums after 1800. The location represents Jaffa and Lydda, both important cities, though Lydda in this period is overshadowed by Ramleh and Jaffa.

Jerusalem
"Al Quds, Yerushalayim, Ierosolymia, Jherusalem"
Medi Plateau Woods
Obviously.

Ramla
"Ramlah, Ramlah, Ramla, Arimathea"
Medi Plateau Grasslands
Centre of a crusader lordship and Ottoman district. One of the largest cities in Palestine throughout the period; consistently populated. This location could rather be Ashkelon [‘Asqalan/‘Ashqelon/Askalon/Ascalon], as it is more centred, though of course throughout the period it was called Al Majdal, and not at the modern Ashkelon’s site. Cloth was produced here in great quantities, but I don’t know of an exact trade good that would fit that. Buildings should reflect this.

Hebron
"Al Khalil, Hebron, Chevrona, St Abraham"
Medi Plateau Sparse
Covers both the Judaean Hills and Desert. Very important religiously for all Abrahamic religions, so indispensable as a location. Sparse Mediterranean is a compromise between the hot desert of the Judaean Wilderness and the relatively irrigated Hills. A later Ottoman District. Holds a large Jewish minority.

Gaza
"Ghazzah, Azzah, Gaza, Gaza"
Arid Plateau Sparse
Only the southern part of the location is arid, though the region wasn’t so well irrigated throughout the period, so arid and sparse as a compromise.

Beersheba
"Bi’r As Seba’, Be’er Sheba"
Arid Plateau Sparse
Could do with being a desert, though the northern region by Ramleh and Hebron have enough rainfall.
I like very much your detail you have put into the Holy Land and Lebanon. I was wondering whether you might consider in making the 7 cazas of Lebanon into specific locations?
Apparently the Deir el Qamar location includes Jezzine and Chouf, Beyrout includes also Baabda and Kesrwan, while Batroun and Bsharre are merged into Tripoli. I guess renaming Zahle to Bar Elias makes sense.
1728117522130.png
 
Gaza should probably have most of the jewish population in the Palestine region followed by Safed or Jerusalem, there were remenants of jews from Acre from its siege and i found nothing about jews in Jaffa and the places in the Al Majdal location
 
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A more formal version for my suggestion:
Untitled.png

1 is the Döger tribe, the nomadic cousins of the Artuqids. Similarly Turkoman in culture (more specifically Oghuz), they would be Sunni as well. The only real thing we know about who ruled them is that the first recorded ruler is a Salim who died in 1396; we know nothing of his parentage.

2, 3, and 4 are all what were once a single unified Banu Rabi'ah, now split into three. 2 are the most powerful, the Al Fadl, whose current chief is Musa. 3 are an offshoot of the Al Fadl, the Al 'Ali, likely at this point ruled by Jumaz but could also be currently ruled by his father, Muhammad. 4 are the Al Mira, whose chief is currently Shata. They are Bedouin (being nomadic Arab tribes, this seems most applicable) and Sunni.

All are nominal subjects to the Mamluks, but this is not exactly the most orderly of arrangements; they oftentimes revolt against the Sultan, raid the neighboring governors (who oftentimes raid them back), and even end up fighting each other.

My conclusions are drawn from The Tribes of Syria in the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Centuries by A. S. Tritton. These should explain the borders I have chosen:

Untitled2.png

Untitled3.png

untitled4-png.1203984

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Untitled6.png

(the last sentence of the last one is how I placed the borders of the Al 'Ali, for otherwise there is nothing to work with)
 

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Great as always, what I'd recommend is changing the name of the location from "Jerusalem" to "Al-Quds", as that's what the local Levantine Arabs (Muslims and non Muslims) called it.
No, English exonyms should be used in English localisation, especially in a location as iconic as Jerusalem (not to mention that the name أورشليم is also used in Arabic)
 
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Hi @Pavía would you be so kind and take another look on saharan political borders of Mamluk Sultantate of Egypt (western border)? It looks really wierd, at least to me. Marked it in red.

The Old World.jpg



In my understanding, it should look more like this:


1732468412623.png


1732468484176.png


1732468577655.png


Thanks!
 
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