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Tinto Maps #18 - 13th of September 2024 - Persia & Caucasus

Hello everyone, and welcome to one more Tinto Maps! Today we will be taking a look at Persia and the Caucasus! These are regions that encompass several modern-day countries and regions (Iraq, Iran, Balochistan, Afghanistan, Transoxiana, etc.), but for the sake of simplicity, we decided to name this DD this. Let’s start, without further ado!

Countries:
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The region is quite interesting in 1337, as there are plenty of countries to play with. The Ilkhanate is still alive, but in name only, the real power being hosted by the Jalayirids, who are overlords of some of their neighbors (the Chobanids, and the Eretnids). Other countries, such as Gurgan, the Kartids, and Muzaffarids are also struggling to get the hegemony over the region. Meanwhile, the strongest power in the Caucasus is the Kingdom of Georgia, although the region is also quite fragmented among different polities.

Ilkhanate.png

And speaking of the Ilkhanate, you may have wondered why isn’t it a unified tag… Well, it’s because we consider that it is clearly in decadence, having lost any grasp of authority over the provinces, so the best way of portraying it is through an International Organization. What we can see in this mapmode is that there are two pretenders to get the power, the Jalayarids and Gurgan, with the other countries still being formally part of it. I won’t talk more today about how it works and its features, but I’ll just say that there are two clear fates for the Ilkhanate: being dissolved, as historically happened, or being restored in full power as a unified country.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Not much to say today about the dynasties, as they’re akin to the country names, in most cases. Well, you might wonder which one is the yellow one, ruling over Gurgan… That country is ruled by the Borgijin, heirs of Genghis Khan. Now you get the full picture of their rule over the Ilkhanate being challenged by the Jalayirids, I think…

Locations:
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Provinces:
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Areas:
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Terrain:
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We’re back to a region with lots of different climates, topography, and vegetation. This will make it very unique, gameplay and looking-wise.

Harbors:
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You might notice that there are ports in the Caspian Sea… Because, well, it’s considered a sea in our game, so there can be ships and navies over it.

Cultures:
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There's quite a lot of cultural division throughout the region... The Caucasus is, well, the Caucasus, divided among lots of different people. Then we have the Iraqi and Kurdish in Iraq, Persian and a number of other cultures in Iran, Baloch in Balochistan, Afghan in Afghanistan, and Khorasani, Turkmen, Khorezm, Hazara, and Tajiks, among others, in Khorasan and Transoxiana.

Religions:
Religion.png

Another interesting religious situation. Orthodox is the main religion in Georgia, and Miaphysitism in Armenia, with other confessions spread here and there throughout the Caucasus (Khabzeism, and three 'Pagan' confessions, Karachay-Balkar, Vainakh, and Lezgin). Then Iraq is divided among Sunni, to the north, and Shiism, to the south. And Iran is in an interesting situation, having a Sunni majority, but with some important Shiite pockets here and there. And Zoroastrianism, of course. It was not trivial to properly portray them, as we don't have good data for the 14th century. So what we did was some calculations, between sources that tell that there was still a majority as late as the 11th century, and the religion becoming severely reduced by the 16th century. Therefore, we decided to go with 20% of the population as a general rule of thumb; however, we're quite open to feedback over this matter.

Raw Materials:
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This region is full of rich resources, in stark contrast to the one we showed last week, Arabia. There are a couple of bugs on this mapmode that you might spot, I think.

Markets:
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This region has several markets: Tabriz, Baghdad, Esfahan, Hormuz, Nishapur, and Zaranj., This will make for regionally fragmented-but-integrated economies (that is, good market access everyhwere, but with regionally diverging economies).

Population:
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The total population of the region is around 9M, taking into account all the different areas that we’re showing today. That is divided into about 4.5M in Iran, 2M in Iraq, 1.5M in the Caucasus, and around 1.5M in Transoxiana.

And that’s all for today! Next Friday we will be taking a look at India! Yes, in its entirety; we think that it is the best way to do it, although we’ll talk more about it next week. Another change, only for next week: the DD will be published at 10:00 instead of the regular 15:00, as I won’t be available in the afternoon to reply. Letting you know so there’s a proper wow-pole-run, yes. See you!
 

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The city of Shaki and the surrounding area had a large population of Christians who were both Orthodox and professed the Armenian Apostolic Church.
As for Ganja and Barda, this region should be ethnically mixed - both Mongolian and Turkish tribes live in this region, the cities are probably dominated by the Persian-speaking population and the Armenian/Udi minority
The Turkization of Shirvan accelerated after the conquest of this region by the Safavids, who settled here the Turkmen tribes Döğer, Dulkadir, Qara Qoyunlu, Aq Qoyunlu. Timur himself brought 20,00 families of Turkish nomads to this region.
View attachment 1240258
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This ethnic map of Azerbaijan shows that in the north of the country there is quite a large Armenian presence, these people are probably descendants of the Udi.
View attachment 1240271

The Udis weren't Armenian Monophysites and Miaphisytes like you claim. They have been Dyophysites since the 7th century, after the schism of the Caucasian Churches, that is, neither a part of the Georgian or Armenian Churches. That changed in 1010, after Bagrat III conquered the kingdom of Kakheti and Hereti (at that point in control of much of the territory of classical Albania) and reorganised the church to be subsumed under the Catholicos-Patriarch of Georgia. After that, the local Udi population east of Kakhi remained firmly Orthodox until the utterly genocidal invasion of the region by Shah Abbas, which completely changed the demographics of the area, bringing in even more Muslim Turkmen to replace the native Christians as a means to keep the province loyal.

Georgia in 1014.png
Georgian Bishoprics According to Prince Vakhushti.png


After more than 2 centuries of Georgian political control, there can be little doubt in that the territory of the Udi people was Orthodox Christian, like the rest of Georgia.
This is what I believe the relevant maps should look like:


Albania Cultures.png



Red - Georgians
Blue - Caucasian Persians/Tats
Green - Udis
Burgundy - Armenians
Pink - Persianate Turco-Mongols


Albania Religion.png



Yellow - Orthodoxy
Burgundy - Armenian Apostolic
Green - Sunni Islam



Side note, your map here is utterly ridiculous - depicting all of south Georgia, or Kartli, as Armenian Christian is completely inaccurate.

Zrzut%20ekranu%202025-01-06%20133421.png
 
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The Udis weren't Armenian Monophysites and Miaphisytes like you claim. They have been Dyophysites since the 7th century, after the schism of the Caucasian Churches, that is, neither a part of the Georgian or Armenian Churches. That changed in 1010, after Bagrat III conquered the kingdom of Kakheti and Hereti (at that point in control of much of the territory of classical Albania) and reorganised the church to be subsumed under the Catholicos-Patriarch of Georgia. After that, the local Udi population east of Kakhi remained firmly Orthodox until the utterly genocidal invasion of the region by Shah Abbas, which completely changed the demographics of the area, bringing in even more Muslim Turkmen to replace the native Christians as a means to keep the province loyal.

View attachment 1240293View attachment 1240294

After more than 2 centuries of Georgian political control, there can be little doubt in that the territory of the Udi people was Orthodox Christian, like the rest of Georgia.
This is what I believe the relevant maps should look like:


View attachment 1240304


Red - Georgians
Blue - Caucasian Persians/Tats
Green - Udis
Burgundy - Armenians
Pink - Persianate Turco-Mongols


View attachment 1240310


Yellow - Orthodoxy
Burgundy - Armenian Apostolic
Green - Sunni Islam



Side note, your map here is utterly ridiculous - depicting all of south Georgia, or Kartli, as Armenian Christian is completely inaccurate.

Zrzut%20ekranu%202025-01-06%20133421.png
I improved the religious and ethnic map

Zrzut ekranu 2025-01-06 195121.png

Religion.png

ethnic.png
 
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1736200950267.png


Azeri language should be less dominant in 1337. The major conversion into Azeri occurred with the Safavid dynasty, whose rule resulted in migration of many Turkoman tribes into Azerbaijan.

Source: https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/history/show/83850

Nakhchivan and Lachin also should be majority Armenian in 1337, the major ethnic change there happened after Safavids deported many Georgians and Armenians into Persia.
 
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@SuperLexxe since you had a question mark regarding this detail, Sabzevar should be its own thing.

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And a helpful map:
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Also to note, and I think this is an important detail, that Shaykh Ali Hindu is the one who's in control of the armies of the Ilkhan in Khorasan.
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In other words, while Togha Temur and Arghun Shah had some tribal armies of their own to fall back on, the actual army of the Ilkhanate that handled Khorasan was under Shaykh Ali's control. Until it was vanquished by Hasan Buzurg, and Shaykh Ali subsequently killed by his former ally Arghun Shah waiting for him back home.
 
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Not sure if this was already covered in this extensive thread, but should Trebizond and possibly Sukhumi be some level of harbor? I get that today's ports of Batumi and Poti became key ports after the games timeframe, but those others have histories as key ports in the Genoese and Venetian Black Sea trade.

I know Trebizond is more Anatolia, but the Anatolia Tinto Maps didn't provide a harbor map as it was early in the cycle.
 
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@SuperLexxe since you had a question mark regarding this detail, Sabzevar should be its own thing.

View attachment 1240735
And a helpful map:
View attachment 1240737
Also to note, and I think this is an important detail, that Shaykh Ali Hindu is the one who's in control of the armies of the Ilkhan in Khorasan.
View attachment 1240741
In other words, while Togha Temur and Arghun Shah had some tribal armies of their own to fall back on, the actual army of the Ilkhanate that handled Khorasan was under Shaykh Ali's control. Until it was vanquished by Hasan Buzurg, and Shaykh Ali subsequently killed by his former ally Arghun Shah waiting for him back home.

I do remember wondering about this. If EU5 has any internal power struggles between cabinet and ruler, then Shaykh Ali could be introduced as a particularly powerful (and maybe competent) one, with an event to get rid of him in exchange for loyalty with the Jauni Kurban vassal, or vice versa, keep him but lose loyalty.

For Musa Khan, I wasn't sure if he would be currently on his way to meet the Khorasani, leaving room for an event to decide for alliance or not, with AI weighted towards an alliance.
 
I do remember wondering about this. If EU5 has any internal power struggles between cabinet and ruler, then Shaykh Ali could be introduced as a particularly powerful (and maybe competent) one, with an event to get rid of him in exchange for loyalty with the Jauni Kurban vassal, or vice versa, keep him but lose loyalty.
Simple problem to solve: grant Shaykh Ali Qushji the locations of Isfarayin and Bam. Why? Isfarayin is an important city and yet no one seems to contest it. It doesn't belong to the Jauni Qurban. It doesn't belong to Togha Temur. After all, the Sarbadars simply seem to end up controlling it without much contest. We know that Shaykh Ali Qushji was governor of Khorasan. We know he had to be governor from somewhere. There's simply no real other plate that makes any amount of sense otherwise.

Actually no, reading more of it there should be even less territories belonging to the Sarbadars in 1337. Jajarm wasn't taken until later, 1340-ish. Sabzevar was taken in 1337, though some time in August-September. If I had to do a bit of a bold claim here, I'd say that all of that territory of the Sarbadars should belong to either Farayumadi or Qushji. Why? Because those are the places where the tax that triggered the Sarbadar revolt was implemented. It makes perfect sense, then.

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Top bit is under control of Qushji. Middle bit, Faryumadi. Bottom bit, Sarbadars. They'll push into Sabzevar shortly after the start date and subsequently raid the rest of Farayumadi's territory. Why?

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Though it didn't end well for 'Abdurrazzak.

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I'd say that it works fine with Shaykh Ali being a rather small subject with a whole lotta armies would be the best thing. Togha Temur, notably, was rather... how do I put it? More used than useful? He was not the one really running the show of his own claim for the Ilkhanate; in 1336 it was Shaykh Ali, and in 1337 onward it was Arghun Shah.

That was the whole reason why Shaykh Ali was killed upon return; Arghun Shah wanted to run the show and not play second fiddle. That's why he stayed behind in the first place, even. By the time the game starts (first of April), there's not really any room to work with with regards to Shaykh Ali; he's there in Soltaniyeh with his army and Arghun Shah is not.

You basically need one DHE for the historical situation. In the event that the war doesn't end with Togha Temur taking Tabriz and restoring the Ilkhanate (that is to say, that they need to actually return home with their tail between their legs), you need one event for whether Arghun Shah moves against Shaykh Ali, another event for whether Togha Temur allows it to happen or whether he opposes Arghun Shah (which would trigger a war between Togha Temur + Shaykh Ali and Arghun Shah, with an event for Abd-Allah Mulai and for Farayumadi to pick sides), and an event for if Togha Temur does nothing, whether Shaykh Ali tries to muster his military force to defend himself (which would trigger a war between Shaykh Ali and Togha Temur + Arghun Shah, with again an event for whether Abd-Allah Mulai and Farayumadi join the fray or stand at the sidelines). For the absolute historical outcome (Shaykh Ali being killed by Arghun Shah without an actual conflict), his territory would be annexed to Farayumadi.

In the ahistorical scenario that the war is actually won... Lots of stuff. What happens with Musa Khan? How much power does Shaykh Ali actually assert? Lots and lots of stuff.

Note that Farayumadi and Qushji are also running states with awful taxation; that's what triggered the Sarbadar revolt in the first place.
 
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Some suggests about metal resources modification for the Caucasus region that I'm hoping someone from the team will see:

Metal resources are of huge importance in the Caucasus region for thousands of years. Far more research has been done on Bronze and Iron Age metallurgy (at least from a raw materials/production perspective) than for the late Medieval/early modern period. But there are appropriate suggestions based on triangulating between known deposits and ancient evidence.

It's great to see that Dmanisi has iron, respectively, as there is Soviet-era archaeological research indicating mining of iron in the area, and if they were mining iron (and probably copper/gold too). I would suggest that Lori is switched to copper, representing the Alaverdi deposits (reference: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169136813002321) and Kldekari be given a non-metal resource (livestock?), as the recent volcanic plateau on which it rests doesn't really have many metal deposits.

Iron

I think there should be at least one more metal resource in western Georgia besides the lead in Ts'esi. One of the few recent papers on medieval mining and metal production in the Caucasus suggests an extensive landscape of medieval iron smelting sites in mountainous Adjara--equivalent to the Khikheni location (side note: should this be Khikhani? That's the modern name for the medieval fortress in the area).

Reference:
"Metal behind the myths: iron metallurgy in the south-eastern Black Sea region"

There are already a lot of iron sources, so I might switch out the iron in the Gori location.

Copper

Copper seems underrepresented in the South Caucasus as a whole. Concrete contemporary mining evidence is hard to find, but there is ample evidence for earlier periods in the Ozurgeti location, Tsageri, and Batumi. I'm not suggesting all three are changed to copper, but if one were looking to add one or two, that's where I'd but it.

References:
"Copper production landscapes of the South Caucasus" https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...ape of many small,spatial patterns in ore use.
"Late Bronze Age (Colchian) copper production in the Lechkhumi region"

Tsageri is appealing because right now there are only lead deposits in the Greater Caucasus range, which feels odd. However, I do love that the one wine-growing area in western Georgia is in the Racha/Lechkhumi area, but Ts'esi could be changed to wine instead.

Gold

Again, more research has focused on ancient periods, but the many gold objects from medieval and early modern Georgia (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedia_Chalice) suggest that some local deposits might have been exploited. I feel like Ganja wouldn't be my top choice for the one gold resource location in the region.

This paper deals with earlier periods, but has compiled maps of deposits: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-98514-7
 
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Here's all the Genoese trade posts of the Cucasian coast(not including Trebizond) that I already put in the Steppe tinto maps
In game or today's name/Ligurian/Italian and other Gallo-Italic languages (it usually coincides with the Ligurian one)

--in 1337 Genoa still controls or used to control:

-Batumi/Lo Vati/Lo Bati(definitely the most important possession in the area, unfortunately I coudn't determine if they directly owned the city or if they had a trading post)
-Sukhumi/Savastopoli(they didn't directly own it but they had a trading post and a catholic bishopric)
-Anacopia/Nikoxia/Nikosia(used to be a Genoese colony it's not clear if they still control in in 1337)
-Pitsunda/Pezonda(in the 13th century it used to be a Genoese colony for a brief period)
Gudauta/Cavo di Buxo(situated between Anacopia and Pitsunda, not in the game atm but it seems they had some sort of presence in the town)
-Gagra/Chacari(not in the game but it was a major trading settlement for both Genoese and Venetians, most likely a Genoese trading post)
-Alakhadzi/Santa Sofia(not much know, probably similar to Gagra but smaller)
-Novorossiysk/Batario(called Susaco in the game derived by the english refugees, has a great port also owned by the De Ghisolfi in 1337)
-Khosta/Costa(a district of the modern city of Sochi owned by the Genoese in 1337)
-Adler/Layso(same as Khosta)

As I stated in the steppe tinto maps all of these should be owned by Gazaria rather then Genoa itself
 
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I find these images much more agreeable. I think Lore/Lori should be majority Orthodox and Georgian, but this is an extremely minor nitpick. Nice work.

Lori is mentioned in Georgian Middle Age sources as an Armenian fortress.

Here is a quote from the translation "Life of King of Kings, David" by I. Zeteishvili:

In the same year, he took the Armenian Lore fortress. And in the same year, in July, he took Agarani, the next day, at dawn.

Source: https://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Heilige/Georgien/XII/David/frametext1.htm
 
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In the 14th century there were still speakers of the (Iranian) Old Khwarazmian language:

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Deweese, David. Turkic and Chagatay Sources, in: Cambridge History of the Mongol Empire, Cambridge 2023; p. 1151.
 
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Updated slightly with changes from @Ispil:

New tags:
  1. Esfarayen - Shaykh Ali Qushji
    • Qushji was the governor of Khorasan before and during the fall of the Ilkhanate. He was the one who proposed Togha Temür as Ilkhan, and became a powerful vizier, until losing a battle to the Jalayirids. During his retreat, he was captured and executed by his rival, Arghun Shah of the Jauni Kurban
  1. Sabzevar - Ala al-Din Muhammad Farayumadi
    • Sabzevar should probably be a vassal of Esfarayen to represent their relationship (Qushji was governor of Khorasan and Farayumadi implemented his tax policies)

      (These two rulers' extortionate taxation was what caused the Sarbadar rebellion, and their lands would fall to the Sarbadars soon after the game start)
Countries COMBO.png


Locations:
Locations.png



 
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Where is this from? Diyarbakr seemed to be firmly in the Ilkhanid successors' grasp, though hotly contested between them
I'll admit, sometimes I forget on the consensus on who exactly held Amid in 1337. I know that the Artuqids held it later and earlier.

I've stared at too many maps lately. Just ignore me.
 
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