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Tinto Maps #22 - 11th of October 2024 - Mongolia, Manchuria and Eastern Siberia

Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
Countries.png

Colored Wastelands.png

Countries zoom.png
Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
Societies of Pops.png

And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
Dynasties.png

Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
Locations.png

Locations zoom 1.png
Locations zoom 2.png
Locations zoom 3.png
Locations zoom 4.png
Locations zoom 5.png
Locations zoom 6.png
Locations zoom 7.png

Provinces
Provinces.png

Provinces zoom 1.png

Provinces zoom 2.png
Provinces zoom 3.png

Areas
Areas.png


Terrain
Topography.png

Climate.png

Vegetation.png

The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
Development.png

Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
Harbors.png


Cultures
Cultures.png

Cultures zoom 1.png

Cultures zoom 2.png
Cultures zoom 3.png
Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

Religions
Religions.png

Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.

Raw Materials
Raw Resources.png

Raw Resources zoom 1.png
Raw Resources zoom 2.png
Raw Resources zoom 3.png
Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.

Markets
Markets.png

First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.

Population
Population.png

Population zoom 1.png

Population zoom 2.png
Population zoom 3.png
Population zoom 4.png
Population zoom 5.png
Population zoom 6.png
The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.

And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
 
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Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
View attachment 1197847
View attachment 1197848
Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
View attachment 1197851
And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
View attachment 1197852
Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
View attachment 1197853

Provinces
View attachment 1197863

Areas
View attachment 1197867

Terrain
View attachment 1197868
View attachment 1197869
View attachment 1197870
The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
View attachment 1197871
Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
View attachment 1198302

Cultures
View attachment 1197872
Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

Religions
View attachment 1197876
Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.

Raw Materials
View attachment 1197877
Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.

Markets
View attachment 1197882
First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.

Population
View attachment 1197883
The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.

And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
Why is the Sea of Okhotsk called the Sea of Yakutsk?
 
1. Yuan launched invasions to Sakhalin, and it managed to subjugate the tribes. How much "effective" control they had there is clearly debatable, like in many other areas of their territory, but they claimed it as belonging to themselves so we added as such, and the mechanics of the game will take care of the rest.
2. The location of Nurgan properly includes modern Tyr, so it's definitely in the right place, it's just that the locations here are so big that it reaches the coast.
3.Probably the Chuckchi were not considered suitable for a SoP at the moment, but we can take another look at them.
Yuan did indeed invade Sakhalin, but by 1320 they had lost control of it again.

1728690542648.png



Also not a source or anything, but I remembered this cool video of Sakhalin’s history I watched a while ago, I recommend it just for viewing pleasure

 
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Do these locations have squiggly arms, or are those corridors? If the former, then do you plan on using corridors anywhere besides the Sahara? Thinking of the Amazon Forest here.
 
Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
View attachment 1197847
View attachment 1197848
Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
View attachment 1197851
And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
View attachment 1197852
Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
View attachment 1197853

Provinces
View attachment 1197863

Areas
View attachment 1197867

Terrain
View attachment 1197868
View attachment 1197869
View attachment 1197870
The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
View attachment 1197871
Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
View attachment 1198302

Cultures
View attachment 1197872
Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

宗教
View attachment 1197876
宗教分布也非常多样化,有 Tengri、萨满教以及 Tungustic 萨满教(棕色)、Yukaghir 萨满教(浅蓝色)和 Chukchee 萨满教(紫色)的当地变体。我不得不说,我们目前正在对世界上所有被定义为“万物有灵论”或“萨满教”的宗教进行审查,因此将来这种分布可能会有一些变化。

原材料
View attachment 1197877
[/剧透]View attachment 1197878View attachment 1197881View attachment 1197880
资源分布非常明显,蒙古和满洲盛产牲畜和马匹(正如人们对马王的期望),而西伯利亚的森林到处都是毛皮和野味,北部海岸是象牙的重要来源(当然来自世界著名的北极象群)。然而,山区还包括金和银等贵金属,因此它们的定居可能被证明是相当有益的。另一件值得注意的事情是,不仅在沿海地区,而且在穿越西伯利亚的主要河流沿岸都可以找到丰富的鱼。

市场
View attachment 1197882
首先,我们又回到了之前可视化市场的方式,因为很明显,我们所做的改变并不是朝着好的方向发展。我们将继续测试和尝试,所以这可能不是它的最终视图,但现在我们恢复到这个版本,因为我们认为它会更清晰地呈现。话虽如此,这些地区市场占有率不高,喀喇昆仑和伊兰哈拉市场是主要市场,而中国市场则蚕食南部地区。西伯利亚没有自己的市场,所以目前所有市场都无法进入。

人口
View attachment 1197883
View attachment 1197884
View attachment 1197885View attachment 1197886View attachment 1197887View attachment 1197888View attachment 1197889
[/剧透]
我们在这里唯一可以展示人口的国家是女真人,强大的 Yuán 从未侵占过他们。关于这些地点的人口,我不得不提到的一点是,你会看到其中许多地点的值为 150,这是我们用于所有东西伯利亚人口较少地区的一般默认值,这些地区的人口估计不允许进行太多的微调。这可能是我们会调整的事情。

这就是本周的内容。下周,在叮咬它并在它的边缘滑行了一段时间之后,终于到了面对巨龙的时候了,因为我们将展示整个中国。希望在那里见到你们,并一如既往地对你们的所有反馈非常开放(并感激)。
 
Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
View attachment 1197847
View attachment 1197848
Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
View attachment 1197851
And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
View attachment 1197852
Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
View attachment 1197853

Provinces
View attachment 1197863

Areas
View attachment 1197867

Terrain
View attachment 1197868
View attachment 1197869
View attachment 1197870
The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
View attachment 1197871
Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
View attachment 1198302

Cultures
View attachment 1197872
Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

Religions
View attachment 1197876
Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.

Raw Materials
View attachment 1197877
Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.

Markets
View attachment 1197882
First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.

Population
View attachment 1197883
The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.

And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
Can you make your development fit the historical situation at the time? Why are there so many plots of land in Hokkaido? But the Liaodong Peninsula and the Gansu region of the previous period are so coarse and unsightly? There are even natural harbors in the Arctic Ocean, and you want to transport goods in ports that freeze for half a year in winter? Is the 400,000 population of a Jurchen tribe really in line with history? Do people survive by eating pasture and by photosynthesis? As early as EU4, there were a lot of outrageous errors in the game setting.,Development logI saw it from the beginning of this year.,Your product ck3,EU4,V3 I bought and like to play.,But don't make so many mistakes in this new game, okay? Even some place names are not historically timed, and some county names were only created hundreds of years later during the Qing Dynasty, and the settings in your game travel through time and space, and it is not difficult to respect the history of other regions and countries.
 
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Great job! I ahve few questions:

-Is there any "content" for Yuan if they lose control of the imperial throne and/or the Chinese core lands? Like going back to the nomadic life on the steppes of Mongolia as they did historically.

-Wouldn't it far better to call it Great Yuan instead of Yuan dynasty? They are both correct yes but the word dynasty could be applied to a lot of countries in the game(especially muslim ones) while putting the word great to whatever tag obtains the mandate would feel more unique(since the only tag that has great in its name is Great Britain and maybe Great Perm)
Because the official names of the last three dynasties in China were 大元(Da/great Yuan), 大明(Da/great Ming), and 大清(Da/great Qing). 大 transliteration means Da, which can be translated as Great.
Dynasty means 王朝(wang chao) in Chinese.This is a general term. For example 大明王朝 means (The Great/Da) Ming Dynasty.
 
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Part 1 #Tribes lived near by Xiguan City

The historical situation in 1337 is: Xiguan City is the most influential city in this area, next to Hunchun, Jilin, China today, in which a governorate of Yuan Government located.

This map shows the situation near by Xiguan City in 1337
View attachment 1200720

And there’s four tribes lived next to this city, for example:

Odoli tuman, which divided into two branches. One’s leader is Goro Mongketimur, ancestor of Jianzhou Zuo Wei and Qing Dynasty, and the other’s leader is 阿都歌 Minggan, Ongko咬纳, later become a vassal of Korea, Manho(Wanhu, Tuman, leader of a tribe of about 10 thousand families) of Olangku (於笼耳, now Gyeongseong, North Korea). Although these two leaders are all Odoli tumans, but we usually call Mongketimur so, and call Ongko 咬纳 阿都歌 Minggan and Mando of Olangku.
Part 2 #Tribes lived in Northeastern Korea

In yesterday’s tinto map, there’s Warkas (that’s also Huligai, Incorrectly have been called Uryangkhand), Holjaon (what’s that) and Morins (Maolian) lives in the northeastern Korean coast. But exactly, Warkas and morins never set foot in this area, and today's northeastern coast of Korea is actually the domain of Haplan prefecture, Sangseong Consolidated Prefecture, and many minggans who help protect courier routes for Mongolians.

Besides the coast, there’s Changbai mountains, with very few tribes live there.

# Sangseong Consolidated Prefecture

There’re three most powerful commissioners in Sangseong:
Cheonho* Cho So Saeng 千户赵小生
Cheonho Tak Do Gyeong 千户卓都卿
*:Cheonho:Minggan, Qianhu, leader of about a thousand families
Both were loyalist of emperor, their ancestors were both Goryeo’s officials, changed their side during the war against Mongolian.

Daruγači* Li Chun (Mongolian name: Bayan-timur)达鲁花赤李椿
*: Daruγači:达鲁花赤, means seal holder.
Li Chun was Li Ja Chun, or Ulus-buqa’s father, Li Seong Gye’s grandfather. Li Seong Gye was later King of Korea, founder of Choson dynasty.

#Haplan Prefecture

Haplan was also realm of a Daruγači, who was not Korean, but a Jurchen named 奚滩 诃郎哈. 奚滩, which we can recognize the surname as Khitan, but to be cautious, it’s better to call it “Xitan”.

#Minggans

They’re: Hongkin, Samsan, Asa, Toklor, Haeyang, Wehe and Gapju. Except Gapju, they all helped the emperor protect the courier route. They’re all Jurchens, but neither Warkas nor Morins, but natives of this land since Khitan Dynasty.

This map shows those Jurchen minggans' correct historical positions. It's clear how the courier route goes.
Northeast Korea.jpg


I’ll glad to keep in touch with our awesome Paradox group, so if you’re interested about Manchurian history and would like to discuss more, welcome to send email to me.

My address is: ciel.24601@outlook.com

Our historical blog「坤舆府」: https://space.bilibili.com/403974461
 
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and ? i know its a mosque , and its on blue , and its built by the Yuan

if the yuan didnt have a preference for blue they wouldnt invent the blue porcelaine that china is so famous for View attachment 1200826


as i said Song dynasty loved green and cyan and here is their pottery .

View attachment 1200828View attachment 1200829
We need some more Mongolian examples. The Mongols of the Yuan Khanate did not believe in Islam.
Although the Mongols did like to use the color Koko as their representative, it was usually understood as blue. In Chinese, Koko is translated as Qing color, which corresponds to cyan.
Green_and_blue_make_cyan.png
 
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Am I the only one turned off by the thin long locations in Siberia, especially the eastern tip which is mostly made of grasslands in between mountain ranges ?

People in these areas lived on a large land area, not just a tiny road 100 miles long. These location borders feel very « Eurocentric » in that they correspond more to the Russian Siberian trade routes rather the actual living area of native tribes.

On the other hand, there is no actual topographic reason to have these large impassable pockets, as these areas are on the contrary mostly covered with flatlands and rolling hills, and middle to low mountain ranges rather represent the lines than the surface

—-
It looks like the base location size unit is roughly equal on the whole world.
While understandable, one has to remember that the x-scaling distortion inherent to any cylindrical projection, also combined with the lower population density in these areas, could totally support larger locations around the poles (as 1 square kilometer is necessarily « bigger » on map at this latitude than it is at 45° north)
 
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It looks like northern Siberia Taymir peninsula has once again been ripped off a Paradox game.
By 1800, it was definitely known to European cartography as numerous examples exist, although it was not navigable due to yearly sea ice, it had already been mapped out.

I would be advocating to include this as part of the map, unlike previous titles.

World map 1800
https://www.loc.gov/item/99446208/
 
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Actually only Sakha are Sakha as you can see by the religion map(only Turkic one)

I do agree that the Evenki and Even being so split is quite questionable, the even spread after 1000 CE AFAIK and thus should be decently more unified than the previous people while right now they aren't.

It's also extremely questionable that "Evenki" culture exists alongside the individual tribal culture, same goes for "Lamut"(Even) and the Even tribes.
Since I'm collecting all the known cultures here, and I'm having difficulties sorting them, could you help me to understand which are evenki cultures and evens cultures? Thanks
 
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I just noticed for anyone complaining Hokkaido has too many locations. St lawrence island has 3 locations lmfao. From my memory France being 550,000km has around 500 locations Hokkaido being 83,000 km has 56 locations.
France 1,100 sqkm per location. 1,482 sqkm per location. St Lawrence island is 4,640 sqkm for 3 locations has around 1,500 sqkm per location which is extremely funny to me lol. Not that im advocating for less locations in St lawrence island of course, but locations in Outer and Inner Manchuria should probably be similar at the very least
 
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Using 19 million for Manchuria is quite misleading when the population was much lower in 1800 and even before

However, even on the eve of the downfall of the Ming Dynasty, the Han population in Liaodong was 1.2 million, while Hokkaido had only 50000 people even during the Meiji period. Nevertheless, Liaoning Province was located much less than Hokkaido
 
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