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Tinto Maps #24 - 25th of October - Japan and Korea

Hello and welcome once more to another week of Tinto Maps. This week we are going to the lands even further to the East and taking a look at Korea and Japan. So, without further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
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Korea during the Goryeo dynasty was under the orbit of Yuán, and had very close ties with it, with the Yuán emperors taking Korean wives. The north, though, and also Tamna in the Jeju island wouldn’t be unified under Korea until the following Joseon dynasty, so they are still separated although all of them also under Yuán. On the other side, Japan starts in a very interesting situation. After a failed attempt to overthrow the shogunate and restore imperial power during the Kenmu restoration, one of the generals that contributed to such restoration, Ashikaga Takauji, in the end established his own shogunate in 1336 (just before the start of the game). The emperor had then to flee the capital and thus we start with the period of the Northern and Southern Courts, with two opposing Emperors and the shogun fighting for legitimacy. So, although it appears unified at first glance, Japan hides many internal divisions within (more on that later). Further South, the kingdom of Ryūkyū is not yet unified, so the three mountain kingdoms of Hokuzan, Chūzan and Nanzan vie for supremacy over the island.

Societies of pops
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Basically already shown in the Manchuria Tinto Maps, but they need to be shown here too, especially the Ainu.

Dynasties
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As it happens in China, the “Goryeo dynasty” name is actually not the name of the dynasty itself, which is actually the house of Wang.

Locations
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Provinces
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Here (as well as with the areas next) we have tried to follow the administrative division of both countries in period, but we’ve had to make some adjustments. In Korea, we had to account for the fact that historically, almost immediately after the start of the game the Josen dynasty took over and the administrative divisions are somewhat different, so we’ve adjusted them together (and had to divide some of the bigger provinces for gameplay reasons). In Japan, the administrative divisions remained virtually unchanged since the establishment of the Ritsuryō system in the 7-8th century until after the Meiji restoration in 1868. However, we still had to make some adjustments, and the smaller ones had to unfortunately disappear.

Areas
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Terrain
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Very mountainous and forested areas both, so the few plains have to be taken the most advantage of.

Development
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Not bad developed areas, but obviously development decreases the further north it goes.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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Korea is mainly Korean, and Japan has been divided into four main groups. Besides this, we also have Ainu in the north, Jeju in Jeju island and Ryūkyū in the Ryūkyū islands.

Religions
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Korea has the same (name pending) religion as China while Japan is Shintō. I must say that this Shintō is not at all considered to be a Kami-exclusively-oriented Shintō nor the post-Meiji State Shintō in any shape or form. In all effects, it is considered under the Buddhism umbrella and it is treated as Buddhist Shintō, while of course including some different mechanics and references to the Kami too. The name Shintō was chosen basically because it’s more recognizable and identifiable with Japan. Besides this, there’s also the Ainu religion for the Ainu, and the Utaki religion for the Ryūkyū.

Raw Materials
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Not bad areas for resources, and plenty of rice and fish in Japan to get good sushi. The more observant of you will see that the resources of Hokkaido have already been adjusted thanks to feedback from the previous Manchuria Tinto Maps.

Markets
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Some may find surprising the presence of Izumi as a Market in Japan, but it is the area that served as the main point of entrance for commerce into central Japan, where the merchant town of Sakai developed, until later Osaka developed under Toyotomi and basically took over that function.

Population
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Not much to say here, except that quite a bit of population waiting for some action.

Extraterritorial Countries
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I’m sure many of you were waiting for this. The samurai clans in Japan are represented as Extraterritorial Countries, and we have tried to be as close as possible to their distribution of territory in 1337. As you can imagine, that is not an easy task, and some more tweaking is needed, so if you have any feedback or extra info on that regard it would be much appreciated. Unfortunately, there’s some overlapping of some clans on the same territory and only one name can be shown at a time, so not all names are visible (the Oda clan is still there, I promise), but there are a total of 143 clans (not counting Ashikaga), plus two extra for each of the imperial courts that are present at start. Related to this, each clan will pledge its allegiance to either the northern or the southern court, mainly based on their historical allegiances but allowing a bit of leeway (and those allegiances don’t necessarily have to be permanent). So, as a bit of an extra tease, these are the allegiances of the clans at start (yellow are the north court supporters, blue are the southern court ones, and again keep in mind that only one color can be present even if there’s more than one clan with different allegiances in the same location)
Nanbokuchou.png

And that is all for today. Next week there will not be any Tinto Maps due to being a bank holiday, so next one will be in two weeks for a look further south into South East Asia. See you there.
 
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I found some good materials, so I will share them.

1. Sulfur is important in Japan, and it should be in Bungo's Hayami. Also, since Iwo Jima in Kagoshima Prefecture does not exist on the map, I think placing it nearby is a compromise.
For reference, the location of Iwo Jima.
足利義満の対国交樹立から半世紀後、八代将軍足利義政の代の宝徳三(一四五一)年に日本から中国に渡った船団は、遣明船史上最多で、総勢九艘の船に一二〇〇人の使節団員が乗り込んだ大規模なものであった。(中略)まず、太刀・長刀・槍をあわせた刀剣類がおよそ一万振、扇が一二五〇本、蒔絵物が六三四色で、一五世紀のアジアのなかで高い技術水準にあった日本製の刀や工芸品が大量に中国に運ばれたことがわかる。(中略)換算すると、まず銅十五万四千五〇〇斤は、九二トン七〇〇キログラムとなり、これまた膨大な量の日本銅が船で運ばれていたことになるが、もうひとつの鉱物資源硫黄のほうは、その倍以上の三九万七五〇〇斤。これは現在の単位の二三八トン五〇〇キログラムに相当sるう。現代に譬えて、軽自動車一台が一トン弱なので、全長三〇~四〇メートルほどの木造帆船九艘に軽自動車二三八台(一艘平均二六台)分の重量の硫黄を積んで東シナ海を横断したと考えればイメージが湧くであろう。つまり、足利義政が十五世紀半ばに中国に派遣した遣明船は、その積み荷の大半を硫黄(サルファー)が占める「サルファーラッシュ」の遣明船だったのである(鹿毛敏夫『アジアのなかの戦国大名——西国の群雄と経営戦略』)。(中略)南宋の紹定元(一二二八)年に編纂された地誌『宝慶四明志』では、日本から南宋への輸出品として、金・真珠・水銀・硫黄・木材などが挙げられている。(中略)日本産硫黄は、平安後期から鎌倉・室町・戦国、そして江戸初期まで、一〇世紀末から一七世紀初頭まで長期間にわたる主要輸出資源だったのである。(中略)豊後には、九州山地くじゅう連山の硫黄山と、別府温泉の西方に位置する伽藍岳・鶴見岳という硫黄鉱石の二大産地があり、大友氏はすでに一四世紀の段階からその産地と鉱石搬出ルートおよび拠点を掌握していたからである。(中略)薩摩の硫黄産地は、大隅半島南端の佐多岬から南西に四〇キロメートルほど進んだところにある硫黄島(本章扉参照)である。(中略)堺や豊後府内で出土したタイ産の陶磁器壺と鉛は、こうした一五七〇年代の九州諸大名と東南アジア諸国との外構交易関係、いわゆる初期の南蛮貿易(対東南アジア貿易)によって九州に運ばれたもので、日本からは銀や硫黄を輸出する一方、東南アジア諸国からは壺を容器(コンテナ)として硝石(火薬の原料)や鉛(鉄砲弾丸の原料)、蜂蝋(ロウソク・口紅の原料)などがもたらされたのである。
Half a century after the establishment of diplomatic relations by Ashikaga Yoshimitsu, in the year 1451 during the reign of the eighth shogun Ashikaga Yoshimasa, a fleet that sailed from Japan to China was the largest in the history of the Ming missions, consisting of a total of nine ships and 1,200 members of the envoy. (Omitted) First, it is evident that approximately 10,000 swords, including tachi, naginata, and spears, along with 1,250 folding fans and 63 types of maki-e (decorative lacquerware), were transported to China, showcasing the high level of craftsmanship of Japanese-made swords and crafts in 15th century Asia. (Omitted) When converted, 154,500 pounds of copper amounts to 92 tons and 700 kilograms, indicating that a vast quantity of Japanese copper was transported by ship, while the other mineral resource, sulfur, was more than double that at 397,500 pounds. This corresponds to approximately 238 tons and 500 kilograms in modern units. To put it in contemporary terms, since a light car weighs just under a ton, one can imagine that the nine wooden sailing ships, each about 30 to 40 meters long, carried the weight of 238 light cars (an average of 26 cars per ship) of sulfur across the East China Sea. In other words, the Ming mission ships dispatched by Ashikaga Yoshimasa in the mid-15th century were "sulfur rush" ships, with sulfur occupying the majority of their cargo (Toshio Kage, "Warlord Daimyo in Asia: The Warlords of the West and Their Management Strategies"). (Omitted) The geographical record "Hōkyō Shimeiji," compiled in the first year of the Shaoding era (1228) of the Southern Song dynasty, lists gold, pearls, mercury, sulfur, and timber as export goods from Japan to the Southern Song. (Omitted) Japanese sulfur was a major export resource for a long period, from the late Heian period through the Kamakura, Muromachi, Sengoku, and into the early Edo period, spanning from the late 10th century to the early 17th century. (Omitted) In Bungo, there are two major sulfur ore production sites: Iōzan in the Kujū mountain range of Kyushu and Garan-dake and Tsurumi-dake located west of Beppu Onsen. The Ōtomo clan had already controlled these production sites and the routes and bases for ore transportation by the 14th century. (Omitted) The sulfur production site in Satsuma is located on Sulfur Island, about 40 kilometers southwest of Sata Misaki at the southern tip of the Osumi Peninsula (see the chapter cover). (Omitted) The Thai ceramic jars and lead excavated in Sakai and Bungo were brought to Kyushu through the external trade relations between the Kyushu daimyōs of the 1570s and Southeast Asian countries, known as the early Nanban trade (trade with Southeast Asia), where Japan exported silver and sulfur while importing jars as containers for saltpeter (the raw material for gunpowder), lead (the raw material for bullets), and beeswax (the raw material for candles and lipstick) from Southeast Asian countries.

2. Iga's productivity is high.
伊賀は畿内周辺部にあって、中世以来生産力が高く多くの市場が確認され、京都や奈良との関係も強かった。それに対して、伊勢領において安濃津は他の市場を圧倒する地位にあった。
Iga, located on the outskirts of the Kinai region, had high productivity since the medieval period, with many markets identified and strong connections to Kyoto and Nara. In contrast, in the Ise domain, Anotsu held a dominant position over other markets.

References
kage, tosio. 2023. 世界史の中の戦国大名. Tokyo: 講談社
fujita, tatuo. 2019. 藩とは何か. Tokyo: 中央公論社
 
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I was reading the various arguments on what to do about Japanese religion and I wanted to pull up an academic book that I have on it. (blows off the dust) I havent had to read this since 2019

This is an except from Helan Hardarce "Shinto, A History" Published 2016 (good recent scholarship.)
Syncretism has been a key concept in religious studies, though there is little consensus regarding it. It has almost always been used with negative connotations, referring to some “attempted union or reconciliation of diverse or opposite tenets or practices,” with the implication that such unions could only result in mongrelization. 29 Syncretism resulted, in the view of scholars such as Gerardus van der Leeuw, from a mixing of two or more religions, so that while each was originally a “pure” tradition, mixing produced an impure blend. This understanding has been criticized for its assumption that religions originally exist in a “pure” state; whereas in fact, they are always changing. As they change over time, they evolve into something different, and when they come into contact with other religions, mutual influence will inevitably occur. 30

Assimilation of divinities, interpenetration of ritual systems, and combinatory institutions are the norm in Japan, not the exception. That being the case, using syncretism to describe the situation would not seem to enhance our understanding and could create mistaken assumptions. At minimum, we must keep uppermost in our minds that Buddhism and Shinto were not equally developed in the Heian period, and that Buddhism was much better equipped to exert a controlling influence. Whereas a system for coordinating Kami rites developed only in the late seventh century, Buddhism by that time had over a millennium of history and had spread from India to Sri Lanka, Tibet, China, the Three Korean Kingdoms, and Japan. Its doctrines were elaborate, complex, and highly developed. Its philosophy had been honed and advanced through its interactions with Confucian and Daoist thought. It had a sense of its own history and a vibrant, living tradition, with continual production of new schools of thought, texts, research, rituals, and proselytizing. Monks and nuns in Japan were ordained and educated in professionalized monastic settings that had no Shinto parallel.

By contrast, the jingi concept had not yet produced an awareness of Shinto as something that linked all the shrines apart from their connections to particular temples. Jingiryō was not formally abolished, but the respect that had originally been accorded it had faded, and the Jingikan was not producing scholarship to invigorate the idea of Shinto as guardian of the indigenous tradition. It is abundantly clear that the religious interests of the court and the aristocracy had shifted toward Buddhism and a new slate of official rites, imperial progresses, and miscellaneous practices, or changed uses of the original Jingiryō rites. Neither the Jingikan nor the court any longer coordinated the whole. The court had joined the ranks of worshipers, in place of the earlier portrayal of the emperor as a Kami or as the highest authority in Kami affairs. Thus Shinto remained philosophically underdeveloped in comparison with Buddhism, rarely able to assert autonomy intellectually or institutionally.

Yet the question of syncretism with respect to Shinto and Buddhism cannot be resolved in the abstract. We do not find that the Kami disappear in formulations dominated by Buddhist intellectual paradigms and divinities. Instead, the associations of particular Kami and Buddhas in specific sites defined the parameters of religious life there. When we examine religious life in terms of specific sites, we find a spectrum of relations, ranging from competition between sites to struggles for dominance within a single site to ceremonial and festivals that project an image of unity or harmony.

Basically, at a high level, Buddhism won over the nobility because it had complex structures, was systematized, and had a philosophical underpinnings and so forth. However, the religion didn't just disappear underneath all of that Buddhism. If it did, it wouldn't have existed at all in the 19th century.

Japanese religious history is extremely complex. I admit my specialty is more towards Japanese theater and religion so when I look at the complexity of that, I am certain it is just as bad everywhere else.

Yamamaba play (yama uba mountain hag) is a play about a woman who goes on pilgrimage from Kyoto to Zenkoji (a Buddhist Temple) on the way she runs into a Yokai called Yama uba while trying to follow a path that supossedly Amida Budda walked along. This play was written by Zeami (1363 – 1443) who also wrote a treatise on Japanese drama and in that talks about Prince Shitoku (Buddhism), the nature of gods, and dengaku (music of the rice fields). Dengaku is a type of nativist practice that is performed as the ritual that calls goes to live in the fields for fertility.


Here is the big problem though, when you look at how peasants behaved. Buddhism doesn't exist. A lot of the religious problems are at the cult-centers not on the farms. Every ritual practice I could find in use focused on tutelary gods providing for harvest and protection against starvation or disasters. Spring Festivals (bring the gods to make land fertile, and fall festivals, wish the gods well as they leave the lands. (In Japanese belief structure technically winter comes from the gods leaving the fields to go into the mountains and if they do not hold a spring festival spring/summer wont come.)
 
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Observations on Location Boundaries​

I have observed the boundaries of Locations and summarized any discrepancies. Many of them are minor details.
If necessary, I can provide images, so please let me know if you need them.
Note that the "Province" here does not refer to the "Province" in the game, but rather the "Province" in the Japanese ritsuryo system.
This post does not consider Hokkaido and Okinawa.


Concerning Province:​

  • Kawachi Province (Osaka) does not face the sea and should be adjacent to Kii Province. (Accordingly, its notation should be changed to "Kahachi.")
  • The eastern border between Shima Province and Kii Province should be slightly further north (according to Wikipedia).
  • Kuraki District of Musasi Province is currently included in "Kamakura," but it should belong to "Tachibana."
  • The northern border of Hitachi Province follows the current prefectural border.
  • Among the two pointed sections on the border between Mino Province and Hida Province, the eastern one should be even sharper. Additionally, the northernmost point of Mino Province should be further west (Edited on 3/3) .
  • "Sirakawa" should be included in Iwaki Province. (As a result, the shape of "Sirakawa" should also be adjusted.)
  • "Kazuno" belongs to Rikuchu Province, but since it is an enclave, is it fine to leave it as is?
  • Regarding Wakasa Province, there are already other cases where two Locations make up one province, so it should be fine to establish another.
  • The pointed section on the border between Tajima Province and Harima Province should be smoother.
  • The eastern pointed section of "Aita" in Mimasaka Province extends too far south.
  • The pointed section directly east of "Abu" in Nagato should be sharper.
  • The northern border between Chikugo Province and Hizen Province should run parallel from north to south.
  • The border between Osumi and Satsuma is misaligned from north to south.
  • Iki Province should exist as a Location.

Concerning Districts:​

  • The Haibara District of Totomi Province is divided; can the shape of this Location be adjusted?
  • The Niihari District of Hitachi Province is divided; can the shape of this Location be adjusted?
  • Due to the aforementioned reasons, the northern part of Hitachi Province has become disorganized.
  • The east-west boundary of "Turuga" in Wakasa Province should be moved westward, and its notation should be changed to "Mikata" accordingly.
  • The border between "Nei" and "Niikawa" in Etchu Province should be moved westward.
  • The current border between "Naka" and "Kaifu" in Awa Province follows modern lines, but the historical western boundary should be further north.
  • The western border between "Uwa" and "Kita" in Iyo Province should be further south.
  • The southern border between "Amabe" and "Ono" in Bungo Province should be moved westward.
  • It seems that "Aira" and "Hishikari" in Osumi are splitting Kuwabara District (though I am unsure how to resolve this issue given the previous points).

References
Takeuchi, Rizo.1975. 荘園分布図 上/下巻. Tokyo: 吉川弘文館
 
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Since the triangle between osaka shiga and kyoto was considert the bredbasket of the nation, and the fact that osaka became the center for trading in rice,, should there not be more farmland in that area? Lake biwa secured rice production even with years with unstable weathercondition.
 
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Okay so I did some reading about Ryukyu and I've some important notes

Key Points are Bolded

Aji: Rulers of the gusuku (fortresses) in the archipelago, first independent kings, later then were made the noble class
Yukatchu: merchants

Population
Assuming that there were approximately one hundred fortresses on Okinawa by the fifteenth century, and using some reasonable assumptions to extrapolate the population backward in time from seventeenth-century records, there would have been an average of three hundred to five hundred people per fortress. Moreover, fortresses were overwhelmingly concentrated in the southern part of Okinawa.” (Gregory Smits, pg 36) So from 30,000 to 50,000 people in Okinawa, disproportionately in the south.
The total population of the Ryukyu kingdom was about 155,637 in 1800. Yaeyama’s population in 1803 was 15,858, which is very close to its population in 1798 (15,957) and 1810 (15,533). Therefore, as of approximately 1800, Yaeyama comprised 10 percent of Ryukyu’s population” (Gregory Smits, pg 238)
The population of Nanking alone probably exceeded that of the entire Chuzan kingdom in [1372].” (Kerr 69)

Possible Provinces and Tags
Before I said that Yaeyama, Mikyako and Yonaguni lived off of subsistence fishing until the Ryukyu kingdom, but I’ve since learned that isn’t true. After reading Gregory Smits’ 2019 book apparently they grew rice, millet, barley and wheat like the rest of the islands. Thus they should be regular tags (named after their respective islands).

Regarding Amami Smits states…
The appropriate starting place for early Ryukyuan history is the northernmost Ryukyu islands of Kikai, Amami-Ōshima, and Tokunoshima. These islands formed an economic unit and possibly, at times, a political unit.” (Gregory Smits, pg 18)
Until approximately the thirteenth century, however, there was a disproportionate concentration of wealth and advanced technology in the Northern Tier [the Amami islands], with Kikai [island] as its administrative center.” (Gregory Smits, pg 20)
the fourteenth century was when Okinawa surpassed the Northern Tier as the main center of gravity in the Ryukyu islands.” (Gregory Smits, pg 31)
According to the official histories, Shō Toku devoted considerable blood and treasure to pacifying Kikai, which resisted stubbornly. Other Ryukyuan rulers waged war in the Northern Tier.” (Gregory Smits, pg 24)
I think Kikai and Amami should be a polity called Kikai.

If you want to add a lot of potential fun you should also give Okinoerabu to a wokou pirate tag, “Okinoerabu served as a pasture for wakō horses, and it was the domain of the wakō leader Guraru Magohachi [~1400]” (Smits, 45)
[Okinoerabu] was the residence of wakō chieftain Guraru (Goran) Magohachi, who flourished during the first half of the fifteenth century. Magohachi had close ties with Okinawa.” (Smits, 71)

Kumejima should also be a tag
one plunderer is the powerful lord of Kumejima [ ] Kumejima…was the abode of powerful wakō groups…the position of the island itself, provide a commanding view of local sea-lanes…was perfectly situated to profit from, impose tolls on, or raid, commerce…Mount Ōtake and other peaks in Kumejima also provided ideal terrain for fortifications…A natural fortress, Kumejima was a strong power center, and it remained independent of Shuri’s control until Shō Shin’s reign…Kumejima had close ties with Miyako and Yaeyama.” (Gregory Smits, pg 100-101)

It’s important to keep in mind that except for Kikai, in 1337 all of the Ryukyuan islands were likely at similar levels of development and organization (From 1200 to 1400 they were gradually going from independent aji chiefdoms to increasingly centralized confederacies of ajis). All of them were aji confederations often ruled or influenced by Wokou. At best the islands and kingdoms were in reality loose confederations (suspiciously similar to Himiko’s Japan). So either they should all be tags or none of them. It is far more accurate for them to all be tags since they did everything tags do (diplomacy, war, taxes, estates, buildings, etc) and should be able to do those things as they certainly did historically. Also, they all developed external diplomatic relations in the first 100-200 years from 1337 at the very least and operated as political units despite common infighting and leadership disputes. Okinawa simply won out in the power struggle so gets more attention and has better documentation.

Here's the likely 1337, the likely 1400 map and my proposed 1337 map.
View attachment 1254093View attachment 1254094View attachment 1254096
Red = many different aji polities
Green = confederacies of varied centralization (and Kikai, we have no idea how they were truly governed but I think it's reasonable to assume they were a kingdom of some sort)
Orange = Wokou pirate polities
Dashed = Kikai had waxing and waining control over the area
* = With all likelihood they weren't kingdoms at all by this point but they're conventionally called kingdoms despite this

Earlier I said that Okinawa should have Buddhist minorities and while that is true, I want to specify that it should be specifically Japanese Buddhist, so Shinto. Also, these Buddhists should mostly be not Hemin, they should be Yukatchu or Ajis.

Given what I’ve read I propose three new locations: Kumejima (and the surrounding islands), Kikai and Yonaguni.
Size does not equal historical importance. I’d argue that removing Amami off the map is better than removing Kikai based on historical importance.

Yonaguni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yonaguni_language
Yonaguni fought wars with its neighbors and exported rice
in 1522, Nakasone Toyomiya invaded Yonaguni and destroyed its lord, Onitora.” (Smits, 170)
[The leader of Miyako] crossed over to Yonaguni Island beyond. There he overwhelmed the chieftain Untura and seized Untura' s daughter as a prize.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/サンアイイソバ

Kikai
In 999 Dazaifu reported that indeed Kikai had suppressed the raiders. Although we cannot verify these details, one point to note is the considerable power located in the Northern Tier. Archaeological evidence suggests that Kikai was both under Dazaifu jurisdiction during the tenth century and that the culture of its inhabitants differed from that of nearby AmamiŌshima. The political geography may have been even more complex, with Kikai and a small portion of Kasari peninsula on Amami-Ōshima forming a single political unit.” (Smits, 19)
In some medieval Japanese literary texts, the name “Kikai” transformed into boundary zones or lands far across the sea. It sometimes occurred attached to that of other countries, such as “Kikaikōrai” (Kikai + Korea), or as the first term in a list of distant places, as in “Kikai, Kōrai (Korea), Tenjiku (India), Shintan (China).” (Smits, 20)
...in Kikai…one hundred and fifty raised buildings, many burial pits, fifty hearths, and thirty ironworking hearths. Goods originating outside of Kikai account for about 70 percent of the total…The [iron] sand provided iron for metalworking. Iron products from Kikai eventually found their way to Okinawa.” (Smits, 20)
Kikai was outside of Japanese political control, and economic activity there diversified. Turbo-shell trade and trade in exotic products such as large conch shells and sea-turtle shells remained important, but Kikai also became the distribution center for local and regional manufactured items.” (Smits, 21)
Until approximately the thirteenth century, however, there was a disproportionate concentration of wealth and advanced technology in the Northern Tier, with Kikai as its administrative center.” (Smits, 20)
Kikai served as the chief distribution center for kamuiyaki. More generally, Kikai served as a major “exchange terminal” within the East China Sea network for a variety of products and people.” (Smits, 22)
After demand outstripped local turbo-shell production capabilities during the eleventh century, the Northern Tier began to export kamuiyaki to Okinawa and the southern Ryukyu islands in return for turbo shells. This process encouraged the development of powerful centers to the south, such as Katsuren in Okinawa and the island of Kumejima near Okinawa, which also traded extensively with China” (Smits, 22)
[Ryukyu] devoted considerable blood and treasure to pacifying Kikai” (Smits, 24)
After an invasion force he dispatched to conquer Kikai failed, Shō Toku personally led an army of two thousand to complete the task.” (Smits, 118)
Two household records from Kikai describe warfare and contact with Shuri prior to 1466, roughly sometime in the 1450s.” (Gregory Smits, pg 119)
He even has a whole section in the conclusion called ‘Ryukyu starts with Kikai’. (Smits, 246-7)

Kumejima
...Kumejima. Despite their small size, these three islands become significant points of analysis…” (Smits, 8)
the island of Kumejima near Okinawa, which also traded extensively with China” (Smits, 22)
This [shell trade] set the stage for development of power centers in Okinawa and nearby islands, especially Kumejima.” (Smits, 22)
only two physical objects (as opposed to people or deities) are modified by the term kikoe (resounding). They are a royal sword, Tsukushi-chara, and turbo shells (kurokariya) produced at Kumejima” (Smits, 22)
The next major development is the rise of large-scale gusuku at various locations in Okinawa, Kumejima” (Smits, 88)
one plunderer is the powerful lord of Kumejima [ ] Kumejima…was the abode of powerful wakō groups…the position of the island itself, provide a commanding view of local sea-lanes…was perfectly situated to profit from, impose tolls on, or raid, commerce…Mount Ōtake and other peaks in Kumejima also provided ideal terrain for fortifications…A natural fortress, Kumejima was a strong power center, and it remained independent of Shuri’s control until Shō Shin’s reign…Kumejima had close ties with Miyako and Yaeyama. For example, Kōntofushi-kawara, a deity worshipped in Taketomi, came from Kumejima. Moreover, a brother and sister deity from Kumejima came to be worshipped as the deity of Mount Omoto in Yaeyama..During the era of Shō Shin’s reign, the island’s thirteen furnaces specialized in different types of iron products, and they lit up the night sky with a red glow. Noting that Kumejima was known as “metal island” because of its abundant iron sand and ironworks, Iha Fuyū suggested that one reason Shō Shin invaded in 1506 was to gain control of its iron industry” (Gregory Smits, pg 100-101)
Kimihae in Kumejima was one of these elite territorial priestesses, the only one not a royal household relative. The term kimi referred to a high-ranking priestess.” (Smits, 165)
the Kimihae priestess of Kumejima led the force invading Yaeyama.” (Smits, 167)
Kumejima was a key point along the sea-lanes connecting the coast of China to the Ryukyu islands and points north. Kumejima was also home to a thriving iron industry. For all of these pragmatic reasons, Shō Shin would have wanted control over the island.” (Gregory Smits, pg 168)
Clearly the military campaign or campaigns in Kumejima had a large impact not only on that island but on the formation of Ryukyu’s empire, its officials, and its capital. In addition to economic and political reasons for invading Kumejima, Shō Shin also sought to conquer and appropriate the spiritual and symbolic power of the island.” (Smits, 177)
“[The ruler] planted mulberry trees on Kumejima to establish silk production there.” (Smits, 208)

Here I sketched out my proposed province map based on historical important and/or uniqueness rather than raw size.
View attachment 1254091

Finally here are some more historical names for locations in the archipelago from the Omoro, “
Okishima [Ukishima] of Kikai
Moishima of Kikai From Okishima
To Biru [Beru village] in Kasari [northern Amami-Ōshima]
To the Nakasetouchi straits [southern Amami-Ōshima]
To Kanenoshima [metal island, i.e., Tokunoshima]
To Seriyosa [old name of Okinoerabu island]
To Kaifuta [Yoron island]
To Asumori [sacred site at the northern edge of Okinawa]
To Akamaru [Tōbaru in northern Okinawa]
To Sakigyamori [sacred site on Kouri island off northern Okinawa near Nakijin]
To Kanahiyabu [sacred site at Nakijin, northern Okinawa]
To Sakiyoda [Cape Zanpa near Yomitan, central Okinawa]
To Oyadomari [Naha harbor] To Shurimori [sacred grove inside Shuri castle].
” (Smits, pg 24-25)

Cultures
Gregory Smits gives some alternative cultural divisions that don’t follow linguistics. I understand it’s the standard you’ve set, but frankly, I prefer cultural boundaries that take more into account so I’m including them.
AD_4nXe1l-4bZdEJEtN8I2c39jClIFVMqXEubsvoC7Qm6NdKsnZzu9VgcJitIZnHG16__zIfy70NledLuC1l3ToYKbg39I6_qKytmFsrPNQl0D__lR1PIh9l5PZ1eCwwPQWlvqKPd8kd

I would combine Tokara and “Northern Tier” cultures. I would call them Amami (I could not for the life of me find a denonym for what Amami islanders call themselves, either Amami is also the denonym or it’s some hidden secret, I did find Amamibito (Amami people) but that’s Japanese) or Kikai as Kikai is the source of the culture not Hokuzan.
George Kerr even referenced the distinction
Even today the people of central Okinawa, who consider themselves more sophisticated, apply the term yawbara to the people of northern Okinawa, a name which has some of the belittling connotation of the term "hillbilly" in American slang. They continue to be marked off by strong local dialect variations and by a significant number of curious everyday customs, habits, and traditions, enough to suggest the possibility of a strong differentiation” (Kerr, 61)
Tokara mariners resided in Naha to help manage commerce and navigation” (Gregory Smits, pg 174)
Naha was a mixed port city in which people from various parts of Japan, the Tokara islands, and China lived” (Gregory Smits, pg 220)
There should be a few of them in southern Okinawa

Yakushima and Tangashima were possibly, but unlikely the location of a Ryukyuanish culture or at least a significantly divergent Japanese culture from around the end of Old Japanese. I can’t find much of anything between about 800-1500 (although there’s some de jure administrative reshuffling around 1200-1400, not sure if that means anything) so you could justify having this culture there in 1300 but it’s a black void from what I can find. It seems the islands were barely controlled by Japan, few to no taxes were collected and few to no soldiers were raised. If there is a culture it could be called Yaku as they were called in the 700s.
A point in favor of distinctness “[the Tokara cultural zone] may also include the islands of Yakushima and Tanegashima.” (Gregory Smits, pg 27)

One of the Smits’ big themes is how interconnected Ryukyu really was, there was a continuous trickle of Korean and especially Japanese people coming to the islands. This should be reflected by small minorities across entire archipelago, moreso the further north [in raw numbers not necessarily percentage] and especially in Naha. This should increase during Japan and Korea’s internal strife.

Here's my proposed culture map excluding foreign minorities
View attachment 1254092

Harbors
Naha, “...three freshwater rivers emptied into Naha harbor. This inflow suppressed the growth of coral reefs and helped Naha became a prosperous international port.” (Gregory Smits, pg 23)

Government Types
Considering a lot of the previous information I brought up about the early polities of the Ryukyuan archipelago being confederacies of various ajis it might be better for them to be the tribal government type rather than a kingdom as they certainly weren’t kingdoms in the sense most people understand it. Also when you unite the archipelago you can form Ryukyu and become a kingdom. Also all polities should be able to form Ryukyu not just the ones on Okinawa.

Resources (tl;dr at bottom)
[Amami-]Ōshima (twenty ships): newly made tools, liquor, vegetables, and tax rice;
Miyako (eighteen ships): superior cloth, lesser cloth, coarse hemp, and rope for ships;
Yaeyama (ten ships): white rice, barley;
Kumejima (nine ships): cotton cloth, millet (awa), and millet (kibi);
Kikai (five ships): polished rice, millet (hie), and buckwheat.
” (Gregory Smits, pg 188)
Taxes received in Shuri in 1606

Amami Islands:
Iron: “Iron sand has been discovered at the Maehata and Ōufu sites within the group. The sand provided iron for metalworking. Iron products from Kikai eventually found their way to Okinawa.” (pg 20)
Yet Amami seems to still be a net importer, “People in the northern Ryukyu islands acquired iron and iron goods mainly via the shell trade.” (Gregory Smits, pg 22)
Shells: “Turbo-shell trade and trade in exotic products such as large conch shells and sea-turtle shells remained important” (Gregory Smits, pg 21), “Matsunoto in the Kasari peninsula of Amami-Ōshima was a major turbo shell processing site.” (Gregory Smits, pg 22)
Clay: “Especially significant was kamuiyaki stoneware, produced mainly in Tokunoshima and shipped throughout the Ryukyu islands and as far north as Kyushu;” “Kilns have been found elsewhere in the region, but Tokunoshima was the main manufacturing site, and Kikai served as the chief distribution center for kamuiyaki.” (Gregory Smits, pg 21-22) Even has its own wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamuiyaki_ware)

Ryukyu often traded lumber for goods so there should be a lumber province on Okinawa (also the island is literally a tropical forest) [To Embrace and Protect: Managing Wind, Water, and Trees in the Ryukyu Kingdom by Byyun Chen, “Ryukyu, which lacked minerals but was rich in timber, had been able to sustain itself by importing metal from Satsuma in exchange for wood”)

The only legumes I could find were ‘possibly’ beans. Clearly, even if they were grown, they were not significant. The vast majority of their diet was rice, local foods (fish), and grains like wheat and millet. I think the legumes should be removed and replaced with more significant goods.

From what I’ve read tea trees were not present in Ryukyu until the 1600s, Tea should then be an import. Also even if there was tea it wasn’t a significant part of their domestic production and export economy, I still think it should be excluded.

Stone (specifically Ryukyu Limestone) is a possible resource, it was used a lot and mined in central/southern Okinawa. Unlike all the other goods (besides subsistence goods like rice) I can’t find much evidence of stone export.

Salt is a possible resource, Ryukyu was known for its high quality salt, especially that from Yaeyama.

More broadly, we know of roughly one hundred and fifty ironworking sites in villages unconnected with large gusuku. These sites produced “Weapons, armor, agricultural tools, fishing tools, building tools, knives, and iron cauldrons.” In 1376, Chinese Ministry of Justice Vice Minister Jì Hào returned from Ryukyu after purchasing forty horses and 5,000 jīn of sulfur. He reported a low demand there for luxury items such as silk, figured cloth, or gossamer fabric. Instead, Ryukyuans valued porcelain and metal axes. It makes sense, of course, that most Ryukyuans of the time would have prized items of practical utility” (Gregory Smits, pg 94) “Swords from Okinawa became popular export items during the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.”(Gregory Smits, pg 99) If reasonable the Ryukyuan archipelago should be importing iron and producing various iron items for export.

Okinoerabushima’s wokou exported horses to China, “If an early Ming emperor needed several hundred head of military horses and was willing to pay a high price for them, wakō groups in…Okinoerabu island had the livestock and know-how to convey them to China.” (Smits, 40-1)
The main horse pasture in the Ryukyu islands was Okinoerabu, whose topography is mostly flatland atop a raised coral reef.” (Smits, pg 71)
The tribute goods delivered to China included Okinawan textiles, sulphur (from Tori-jima), and horses, which the Chinese appear to have valued highly.” (Kerr 66)

...turbo shells (kurokariya) produced at Kumejima.” (Smits 22)

Finally want to bump the sulfur guy (link:https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...s-44-1st-of-january-2025.1724420/page-5#posts)

So my recommendations based off what I’ve read
Kikai: Iron or Fish
Amami: Shells or Rice
Tokunoshima: Clay
Okinerabushima: Horses
North Okinawa: Rice
Central Okinawa: Lumber
Southern Okinawa: Sturdy Grains
Kumejima: Shells or Iron
Miyako: Fish or stone
Yaeyama East: Pearls
Yaeyama West: Salt
Yonaguni (if there): Rice or Fish


Thank you for reading, may Amamikyu bless glorious Ryukyu

Sources:
Okinawa History of an Island People by George Kerr
Maritime Ryukyu 1050-1650 by Gregory Smits
Hello, I've got some extra notes and revisions based on my notes on Smits' second book (Early Ryukyuan History: A New Model)...

Before I begin I just want to mention that Smits makes some claims that are outside the typical model of Ryukyuan history but in my recommendations I avoid anything too far outside of the standard model for Ryukyuan history in my suggestions. Smits makes it clear when he's making an argument for a new paradigm and when he's stating well established knowledge.

So first off, some horse beating...

The thirteenth century was a time of transition. The emergence of large fortresses (gusuku) in Okinawa at the start of the fourteenth century marked a shift in relative prominence. Places such as Nakijin, Katsuren, and Urasoe in Okinawa began to outpace harbors in northern islands in the accumulation of wealth and power.” (Smits, 47)
Kikaijima was the location of advanced technology, vast wealth, and potential power.” (Smits 91)
Tokunoshima, Amami-Ōshima, and Kikaijima constituted a region of intense economic activity. [Kikai] was a thriving international trade hub. It received manufactured products and raw materials from all over the East China Sea region, and it was also a manufacturing site itself. Items shipped out of Kikaijima. (Smits 94)"
The scale of illegal trade with China in [Miyako and Yaeyama] during the fifteenth century was vast.” (Smits 243)
Kumejima was a powerful and prosperous place, closely connected with China, Japan, and the rest of the Ryukyu Islands…[Sacred Songs fron the 1400s-1500s collected into the Omoro] indicate that in addition to being valuable territory in its own right, Kumejima was a nexus. It possessed a commanding view of the sea lanes.” (Smits 249)
[Kumejima] was of great importance to the origins of the Second Shō dynasty. There were close connections between key institutions of the Second Shō dynasty and Kumejima. The hiki system, which organized personnel who functioned as soldiers, sailors, and general-purpose laborers, emerged in connection with Shuri’s conquest of Kumejima. Moreover, Shuri’s high priestess (Kikoe-ōgimi), several Nakijin priestesses, and the (Oni-)Kimihae priestess of Kumejima were all closely connected with each other. Indeed, there is a rich web of interconnections between Kumejima and its deities, the religious hierarchy that Shō Shin created, the royal rituals created during the reign of Shō Sei…Makishi Yōko has explored these connections thoroughly in a recent book examining the origin and nature of royal rituals and institutions during the first half of the sixteenth century…[Kumejima] was a valuable source of iron. Furnaces there produced iron from iron sand, and the island itself was a natural fortress ideally located for control of sea lanes between the Ryukyu Islands and China (Smits 247)”
[Kikai] resembled a medieval Japanese city like Hakata or Kamakura, albeit on a smaller scale.” (Smits 92)
During the early fourteenth century and possibly slightly earlier, people from…Miyako…began sailing to island Southeast Asia to acquire valuable tropical products for trade…some Mìyágǔ 密牙古 (Miyako) people…were caught in a storm, blown to China…in 1317. [ ] Some of the excavated pottery [from 1300s Miyako] includes items from Korea, Vietnam, and other Southeast Asian locations…Notice that someone who understood the language of the islanders was found in China and that a ship sailed from China in the direction of Miyako. Most likely some direct trade between Chinese merchants and Miyako and/or Yaeyama was taking place…it is likely that several communities in Miyako were cooperating in the trade. [ ] In 1390, for the first time, pepper and sappanwood were listed as items that Chūzan presented to China as tribute. Contact with the southern Ryukyu Islands enabled Chūzan to ship those items, which came from tropical Asia and were much valued in China. Moreover, these two products were listed in the items Chūzan sent to Korea in 1389…Bora Miyakoans traded as far afield as Southeast Asia at the start of the fourteenth century, and possibly earlier…Chūzan obtaining pepper and sappanwood via trade with Miyako sailors, who obtained the items in Southeast Asia” (Smits 61-63)
Given the details of that incident, it is entirely possible that traders from Miyako had been sailing to Southeast Asia and China even before the fourteenth century.” (Smits 171)
In 715 a total of seventy-seven people from Shigaki (Ishigaki), Kumi (either Kumejima or Kome on Iriomote), Amami, Yaku, and Tokan (Tokunoshima)...were present at court, all of whom presented tribute…Interestingly, no Okinawans are mentioned…In the eyes of the Yamato court, Okinawa was not a major participant in southern island exchanges.” (Smits, 82)
As was the case with Okinawa, during the fourteenth century [Miyako and Yaeyama] became more populous and active…The number of settlement sites increased rapidly during the fourteenth century, totaling more than thirty around Miyako and in nearby islands. Clearly, the population increased…From the late fourteenth century onward, Chinese goods poured into the southern Ryukyu Islands in relatively larger quantities than was the case in Okinawa or the Japanese mainland.” (Smits 171-2)
Southern islands products resulted in the establishment of a new trade network during the eleventh and twelfth centuries, which extended all the way to the Yaeyama Islands. (Smits, 100)”
As I said before, around 1337, Okinawa would be on par if a little ahead of the weakening Kikai with Sakishima (Miyako, Yaeyama) gradually growing identically as organized political forces in their own right where they would fight wars (sometimes successfully) with their neighbors and Okinawa itself in the 1400s. I’d like to reiterate there’s little difference between the development of any of the Ryukyuan Islands so they should all be tags or all not be tags. Except possibly Yonaguni but I will discuss that later.

Hokama then examines the distribution of Okinawa’s population in 1611 (including other Ryukyu Islands), in 1872 (Okinawa only), and in 2011 (Okinawa Prefecture). He notes that the basic population distribution has not changed for four hundred years. (Smits, 142)”

By 2008, over one hundred kilns had been discovered in Tokunoshima, and kamuiyaki had been excavated from sites in western Kyushu and throughout all the Ryukyu Islands. The production of kamuiyaki dates from the eleventh century, a time when [Kikai] was a thriving international trade center. (Smits 42)” Due to the clear trading relationship between Tokunoshima and Kikai I further making Amami and Tokunoshima as parts of a Kikai polity.

Products made from Ryukyu Islands cone snail shells…from the Lèlàng area….the quantity of cone snail products in Korea increased significantly [around year 400] A similar situation occurred regarding products made from Ryukyu Island turbo shells. Turbo shell spoons/ladles have been excavated from Silla and Gaya [in Korea]. Ryukyu Island turbo shells made their way to Korea and helped fuel trade from approximately the late fifth century onward. They are found as funerary goods in the Goryeong Jisandong Tumuli and at four places as funerary goods in the royal tombs of Silla and Gaya…At all these tombs, shell ornaments, whose raw material came from the Ryukyu Islands, have been found…This situation indicates exchange and trade networks linking the Ryukyu Arc and the Korean Peninsula.” (Smits 54-55)
“the “road of shells” (kai no michi). Trade in seashells and their products linked the ancient Ryukyu Islands to…the island of Tsushima…southwest Honshu and…Hokkaidō…The early phase began around the start of the Yayoi era, circa 1000 BCE, and it continued through the seventh century CE. The latter phase began in the ninth century and continued until the fifteenth…In Kyushu, craftspeople then made the shells into bracelets and other products. In return for the shells, Ryukyu islanders received pottery, cloth, and other trade goods.” (Smits 57-58)
Seashells were the most common economic product of the islands of the Ryukyu Arc. In addition to the cone, conch, and turbo shells discussed previously, giant trumpet shells (gohoragai) were a prized commodity.” (Smits 80)
First, the [Ryukyus] were the only location in [East Asia] where turbo shells were present. Many other valuable shells and southern island products were found most abundantly in the Ryukyu Islands. (Smits 264)”
Further evidence of the importance of the shell (pearls) trade for the islands, the region and its long history. Further Ancient Ryukyu: An Archaeological Study of Island Communities by Richard Pearson devotes the whole of chapter 6 to the shell trade (When I have time I'll go through my notes of that book and post here if I find anything juicy, final post I promise lol).

“[Okinawa] has good timber and water resources in the North, as well as large tracts of land in the south that can support a relatively large population.” (Smits 98)

[Tokunoshima] constituted one of four large pottery regions in the Japanese Islands, and kamuiyaki production was on a par with the other great kiln sites in Japan. (Smits 115)”


Now for some new information...

Control of the northern Ryukyu Islands by the Chikama at this time was surely one reason why those islands interacted much less often with Okinawa and the southern Ryukyu Islands. The 1333 fall of the Hōjō greatly weakened the Chikama, as did the rise of the Shimazu family.” (Smits 170) Keep in mind this ‘control’ was likely entirely nominal and the Japanese exercise no control over these areas. Yet I think it warrants giving Japan a claim to the Ryukyu Islands north of Okinawa.

The deepwater harbor of Naha could accommodate large Chinese ships.” (Smits 98)

an [jomon derrived] indigenous population, coexisted for a relatively long time: the late twelfth century until the late thirteenth or early fourteenth…The indigenous population disappeared entirely in the fourteenth century. (Smits 96)” It would seem that a group of Jomon people existed along the archipelago in parallel. The culture could be called Nanban. Maybe Kumaso or Hayato could be used but those are names for groups long gone in Kyushu. Otherwise, I can’t think of a name.

Kikaijima lacks significant forests. Therefore, the lumber for the Gusuku buildings had to be imported…from nearby Amami-Ōshima. Eighty-five percent of Amami-Ōshima is forest. Its natural resources include manganese, copper, gold, silver, and coal. Indeed, mining continued on the island into the early twentieth century, and the ruins of old gold and silver mines remain.” (Smits 92)

One of the big themes of the book is migration like the last one. As I mentioned before the Ryukyus should have Japanese, Korean and a few Chinese minorities but given what I’ve read in this book these Korean minorities should probably be extended to ports across Kyushu and neighboring islands with most as Korean burghers. It might be too granular since they would be a much smaller proportion of the population than in Ryukyu but this book makes a good argument that they had a large cultural and genetic impact, so they probably came in significant enough numbers consistently over the years. No quotes because this point is essentially the entire book.

When it comes to Yonaguni, there’s little information pre 1400. It's likely it was a weaker polity, although the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Although the lack of large Gusuku on the island is notable. Even if it wasn’t in 1337, it would be quickly after the start date by 1400, so I stand by my recommendation that it be its own location and tag. However given its weaker status and less integral nature to the history of the Ryukyus, it's probably the least objectionable exclusion.

for 1260 notes that the Korean island of Jeju attracted many foreigners. Chinese merchants and “island wajin,” meaning people from Iki and Tsushima, visited Jeju constantly…an entry in Joseon Veritable Royal Records for 1482 notes that Jeju Island is a gathering place for people from other regions who take to the sea. In short, from the thirteenth century through the fifteenth, wajin and wakō, many of whom were Korean, connected coastal Korea, Jeju Island, Tsushima, Iki, and ultimately the entire core cultural zone [Korean Coast through Kyushu to the Ryukyus]. (Smits, 57)” Some diversity in Jeju and other islands at the time period largely due to Wokou and preexisting connections that could be represented with diverse pops.

The twelfth- and thirteenth-century population of Miyako was relatively small, but during the fourteenth century, it grew rapidly. (Smits 113)” Miyako was a rising power in 1337 likely due to the trade with Southeast Asia.

However, one intriguing passage from History of Song (Sòngshǐ) suggests the Yaeyama Islands served as bases for marauders…the southern Ryukyu Islands must have possessed significant military power. (Smits 114)” Yaeyama should probably also be a Wokou tag like Kume and Okinerabushima.

Miyako location and/or polity could be called Bora after the important trading town there, “In Chronicle of Wēnzhōu…mentions of people from “Bora” can be found into the fifteenth century. Shipwrecked Koreans who came to Miyako in 1477 recorded the place as “Bora Miyako.” As late as 1477, therefore, “Bora” stood for Miyako. (Smits 62)”

At the other end of the Ryukyu Arc, local powers in Miyako depended heavily on lumber from Iriomote in the Yaeyama Islands. (Smits, 65)” Maybe Yaeyama could be lumber

During both the Song and Yuan eras, Persian, Arab, Jewish, and Armenian merchants resided in the Jiāngnán trading cities and formed foreign enclaves along the coast.” (Smits 175) Some diversity that could be added in Chinese ports as well.

In 681, court envoys sent to Tanegashima returned with a map and noted that the island was rich in marine products and grew rice, with one planting yielding two harvests per year (Smits, 81)” Tanegashima could be fish or rice

Although turbo shells are found in Okinawa as well, Amami-Ōshima, especially the Kasari Peninsula, was the most important location for turbo shell collection…” (Smits 93-94)

Notes on geography that might be helpful
From pages 64-66
High Islands: Yakushima, Amami-Ōshima, Kakeroma, Tokunoshima, Iheya, Kumejima, Tonaki, Kerama, northern Ishigaki, Iriomote, Yonaguni and the northern part of Okinawa (north of modern Ishikawa).
Fruit trees grow well
Large scale agriculture difficult
Lower population

Low Islands: Tanegashima, Kikaijima, Okinoerabu, Yoron, central and southern Okinawa (south of modern Ishikawa), Miyako, Irabu, Tarama, southern Ishigaki, Taketomishima, and Hateruma
Formed of limestone which is good for building materials
Less lumber
Higher population
Grasses (especially sugarcane), root vegetables (think taro or later potatoes), and other vegetables grow well

ReRecommendations for Goods:
Kikai: Iron
Amami: Pearls (as stand in for Shells)
Tokunoshima: Clay
Okinerabushima: Horses
North Okinawa: Lumber
Central Okinawa: Taro (in the book he demonstrates that Taro and not Rice as usually claimed (by a mile really) was the most common agricultural crop in the Ryukyus (roughly 75% of their cultivated land compared with rice’s 10%), before getting replaced by the potato, the Ryukyus have soils better suited to Taro as well)
Southern Okinawa: Fish (besides its importance southern Okinawa was quite resource poor)
Kume: Iron
Miyako: Stone
Yaeyama East: Pearls
Yaeyama West: Lumber
Yonaguni (if there): Fish

Stay tuned because I'm preparing a post on some Ryukyu flavor. I don't know if it's Japanese enough for me to post it in the eventual (I assume) Japan flavor talk, so it'll be posted as a discussion post when I get around to it.
 
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Reactions:
I think "Shinbutsu" would be a much better name for the Japanese religion, after so much debate about the Mahayana label in China it seems a bit ironic to have the opposite extreme in Japan. It might be a more unknown name, but it is only one google search away.

Also, some options for the Ainu religion could be "Iyomante" or "Kamuy-ism", but this change might not be important. "Iyomante" is the name of a very important festival, while "Kamuy" is the name for Ainu deities and spirits.
adding on top of the religious debate, it makes it a bit weird that the melding of Shinto and Buddhist practices that intermeshed with the teachings of Confucian and Taoist principles due to the sect origin in China, which makes the representation of Shinto all the more weirder.
 

Observations on Location Boundaries​

I have observed the boundaries of Locations and summarized any discrepancies. Many of them are minor details.
If necessary, I can provide images, so please let me know if you need them.
Note that the "Province" here does not refer to the "Province" in the game, but rather the "Province" in the Japanese ritsuryo system.

Concerning Province:​

  • Kawachi Province (Osaka) does not face the sea and should be adjacent to Kii Province. (Accordingly, its notation should be changed to "Kahachi.")
  • The eastern border between Shima Province and Kii Province should be slightly further north (according to Wikipedia).
  • Kuraki District of Musasi Province is currently included in "Kamakura," but it should belong to "Tachibana."
  • The northern border of Hitachi Province follows the current prefectural border.
  • Among the two pointed sections on the border between Mino Province and Hida Province, the eastern one should be even sharper. Additionally, the northernmost point of Mino Province should be further west (Edited on 3/3) .
  • "Sirakawa" should be included in Iwaki Province. (As a result, the shape of "Sirakawa" should also be adjusted.)
  • "Kazuno" belongs to Rikuchu Province, but since it is an enclave, is it fine to leave it as is?
  • Regarding Wakasa Province, there are already other cases where two Locations make up one province, so it should be fine to establish another.
  • The pointed section on the border between Tajima Province and Harima Province should be smoother.
  • The eastern pointed section of "Aita" in Mimasaka Province extends too far south.
  • The pointed section directly east of "Abu" in Nagato should be sharper.
  • The northern border between Chikugo Province and Hizen Province should run parallel from north to south.
  • The border between Osumi and Satsuma is misaligned from north to south.
  • Iki Province should exist as a Location.

Concerning Districts:​

  • The Haibara District of Totomi Province is divided; can the shape of this Location be adjusted?
  • The Niihari District of Hitachi Province is divided; can the shape of this Location be adjusted?
  • Due to the aforementioned reasons, the northern part of Hitachi Province has become disorganized.
  • The east-west boundary of "Turuga" in Wakasa Province should be moved westward, and its notation should be changed to "Mikata" accordingly.
  • The border between "Nei" and "Niikawa" in Etchu Province should be moved westward.
  • The current border between "Naka" and "Kaifu" in Awa Province follows modern lines, but the historical western boundary should be further north.
  • The western border between "Uwa" and "Kita" in Iyo Province should be further south.
  • The southern border between "Amabe" and "Ono" in Bungo Province should be moved westward.
  • It seems that "Aira" and "Hishikari" in Osumi are splitting Kuwabara District (though I am unsure how to resolve this issue given the previous points).

References
Takeuchi, Rizo.1975. 荘園分布図 上/下巻. Tokyo: 吉川弘文館
I have marked it on the map. However, it is not accurate, so please check a precise old map before making any edits.

Additionally, I have made some corrections to the original post and rearranged some parts.
 

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Kind of a very late reply, but at the time of release of this Tinto Map I guess I was more concerned about the religious discussion. Looking back at the map it got me wondering: isn't there somewhat of a lack of impassable areas and mountains in Japan? Shouldn't the region be extremely hard to navigate for armies?
 
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Observations on Location Boundaries​

I have observed the boundaries of Locations and summarized any discrepancies. Many of them are minor details.
If necessary, I can provide images, so please let me know if you need them.
Note that the "Province" here does not refer to the "Province" in the game, but rather the "Province" in the Japanese ritsuryo system.
This post does not consider Hokkaido and Okinawa.


Concerning Province:​

  • Kawachi Province (Osaka) does not face the sea and should be adjacent to Kii Province. (Accordingly, its notation should be changed to "Kahachi.")
  • The eastern border between Shima Province and Kii Province should be slightly further north (according to Wikipedia).
  • Kuraki District of Musasi Province is currently included in "Kamakura," but it should belong to "Tachibana."
  • The northern border of Hitachi Province follows the current prefectural border.
  • Among the two pointed sections on the border between Mino Province and Hida Province, the eastern one should be even sharper. Additionally, the northernmost point of Mino Province should be further west (Edited on 3/3) .
  • "Sirakawa" should be included in Iwaki Province. (As a result, the shape of "Sirakawa" should also be adjusted.)
  • "Kazuno" belongs to Rikuchu Province, but since it is an enclave, is it fine to leave it as is?
  • Regarding Wakasa Province, there are already other cases where two Locations make up one province, so it should be fine to establish another.
  • The pointed section on the border between Tajima Province and Harima Province should be smoother.
  • The eastern pointed section of "Aita" in Mimasaka Province extends too far south.
  • The pointed section directly east of "Abu" in Nagato should be sharper.
  • The northern border between Chikugo Province and Hizen Province should run parallel from north to south.
  • The border between Osumi and Satsuma is misaligned from north to south.
  • Iki Province should exist as a Location.

Concerning Districts:​

  • The Haibara District of Totomi Province is divided; can the shape of this Location be adjusted?
  • The Niihari District of Hitachi Province is divided; can the shape of this Location be adjusted?
  • Due to the aforementioned reasons, the northern part of Hitachi Province has become disorganized.
  • The east-west boundary of "Turuga" in Wakasa Province should be moved westward, and its notation should be changed to "Mikata" accordingly.
  • The border between "Nei" and "Niikawa" in Etchu Province should be moved westward.
  • The current border between "Naka" and "Kaifu" in Awa Province follows modern lines, but the historical western boundary should be further north.
  • The western border between "Uwa" and "Kita" in Iyo Province should be further south.
  • The southern border between "Amabe" and "Ono" in Bungo Province should be moved westward.
  • It seems that "Aira" and "Hishikari" in Osumi are splitting Kuwabara District (though I am unsure how to resolve this issue given the previous points).

References
Takeuchi, Rizo.1975. 荘園分布図 上/下巻. Tokyo: 吉川弘文館
If you don't mind having the same name, "Kawachi" is better than "Kahachi".
Similarly, Sunto in Suruga Province should be Suruga.
 
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I advise setting the population of Goryeo at between 3 million and 3.5 million, instead of 2.5 million, around 1340. First of all, the estimated population of the Goryeo Dynasty is as follows. According to Wars, epidemics and reduction of population during Goryeo Dynasty, it was estimated around 2.9 million and 3 million, around 1230. There was also damage from the war, but it seems more reasonable to estimate it at over 3 million, considering the subsequent recovery.

Wars, epidemics and reduction of population during Goryeo Dynasty
20250418_055203.png


Another study in 1996 estimated the population of Goryeo in the middle of the 12th century to be around 2.5-3 million.
20250418_055340.png


Finally, considering that the population of the Korean Peninsula was about one-third that of Japan in the 1925 survey, I think the gap disclosed in the forum was even greater than then. Therefore, I recommend revising the population of Goryeo to around 3 million to 3.5 million around 1340. I think this is more fitting for actual history than 2.5 million.
Of course, I think the figure of more than 4 million at the time is too much. I hope Paradox will consider my suggestion positively.
 
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WHOO KOREA LETS GO BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Alright, it's Korea feedback time!

1. The matter of Tamna
I disagree on how Tamna(or Jeju, as it would be called later) is depicted as independent. The Tamna Prefectures that were established after the Mongol conquests of Korea were abolished in 1301, at the request of King Chungnyeol. It became the Tamna Manhobu(10 mingghan), and the control of the island was transferred to Goryeo. It was governed by a Manho sent from Goryeo and two Jeju governors. Although it did have a stronger Mongol influence compared to the rest of the country(the leftover Mongols revolted in Jeju in 1374), it was effectively a part of Goryeo. The local Kingdom of Tamna was abolished in 1105.

2. The dynasty in Ssangseong
The Ssangseong Prefectures were governed by the Jo Clan. There were 4 governors:
  1. Jo Hwi(1258 ~ ?)
  2. Jo Yang-gi(?~1327?)
  3. Jo Lim(1327?~1354)
  4. Jo So-saeng(1354~1356)

3. Location feedback
will add later

4. Province feedback

I mentioned in the Manchuria TM that most of the province names in Northern Korea are anachronistic, but there just isn't a suitable replacement name for them, but as most of these names were changed to modern ones very quickly in the game timeframe, I don't think they warrant serious changes.
The below, however, are names which I would like to be changed.

  1. North Seogyeong - Seogyeong is the old name of Pyeongyang, which was in the Bukgye province in Goryeo times(Seogyeong was renamed to Pyeongyang with the start of the Joseon dynasty). Suggest renaming it to Anbuk after the Anbuk Dohobu(Protectorate - basically a place of high military importance) which was in the coast of that province.
  2. North Chuncheon and South Chuncheon - As for South Chuncheon, possibly rename to Wonju. North Chuncheon definitely needs a rename, but I'm not sure what to change it to, since there weren't(and still aren't) any major settlements there. Maybe Geumgang could be possible?
  3. Daegu - Either rename to Seongju or give the western part of Andong to it and call it Sangju. Even in 1789, Daegu was only the 4th most populous city in Gyeongsang, behind Gyeongju, Sangju, and Jinju. Speaking of which...
  4. Dongnae - Rename to Gyeongju. Dongnae(which would later become Busan) wasn't like that big of a city until the late 19th century(~30000 people in Dongnae province by the late 18th century), and there definitely weren't any trains to it.

5. Area feedback
Why did you guys decide to go with the provinces of Goryeo for the areas? They would be abolished within ~60 years since game start. Is it cuz areas are changeable(Maybe they are and I'm being a massive idiot rn)?
I think it should be changed to either the traditional divisions of Korea or the provinces of the Joseon dynasty
Traditional divisions:
View attachment 1206983
Green: Gwanbuk Yellow: Gwanseo Dark blue: Haeseo Lavender: Gwandong Pink: Gyeonggi Red: Hoseo Orange: Honam Cyan: Yeongnam(Jeju can be a part of Honam)

Joseon dynasty provinces:
View attachment 1206988
Purple: Hamgyeong Blue: Pyeongan Yellow: Hwanghae Brown: Gangwon Pink: Gyeonggi Purple: Chungcheong Orange: Gyeongsang Green: Jeolla
The only doubts I have about this is Gyeonggi, as it literally means 'close to capital' and the capital could be anywhere. Perhaps a name like Gijeon(old nickname for the region) or something like that would work.
And as I am a Korean, and no Korean can ignore the massive SEA OF JAPAN, I humbly suggest that it be sliced up into west and east like in EU4(who am I kidding lmao)

6. Culture feedback

I was originally gonna oppose the Korean pops in Manchuria since Balhae had fallen ~450 years ago, but I remembered that a ton of Koreans were taken by the Mongols and settled in that area, and that's why a Goryeo royalty was the Simwang(King of Simyang, or Shenyang).
As for Jeju, not so sure - the local Tamna language was definitely gone by this point, but I think the Jeju region was still autonomous and independent(at least culturally) from the mainland enough that a separate culture makes sense.
Also, can we please have an event or whatever to bring back Goguryeo or Baekje or Silla please please please please please (who am I kidding lmao)

7. Other rants

Were there this many gold-producing provinces in other regions? idk, I don't remember, I don't know a lot about production
With the advancement of the rice planting technique in the 17th century it would be good for many of the legume-producing provinces to turn into rice producing ones
A population of 2.5 million seems way too low for this time. Population estimates for Goryeo in the 12th century is ~5 million, and at the end of the 14th century it's around 5.5 million. Population censuses in the early Joseon dynasty show around 4 million people(Yang Seong-ji's Nuljaejip), and accounting for the inaccuracy of censuses at that time, it was likely a bit higher than that, so about 5 million.

Japan looks cool whatever I don't care about japan


Edit: I just noticed that you used the 23 bu system for making the provinces. This was made in 1895(and not in the game timeframe), when the Joseon dynasty was undergoing a series of radical reforms. The Joseon Dynasty for much of its lifetime used the 8 do system, with lower levels of administration like bu, dohobu, gun, and hyeon below it.

I know it's been a while since this post was addressed, so just wanted to support this post, especially on having the areas reflect the traditional 8 provinces of Joseon that would be present for almost the entirety of the game's lore after the first 50 odd years, and for the renaming of locations that did not have any relevance until the modern age in the late 1800s.

I'll get into depth of my suggestions, centered on the restructuring and renaming of areas and provinces.
The ideal way to go about this would be to have the provinces in each area have a relevant province name with it, and since the Paldo (Eight Provinces) were traditionally portmanteaus of the two most important cities in the province with the exception of Gyeonggi-do (which I think is fine being left that way, since it was the name given to it during the Joseon Dynasty).

The examples given would be as such:

1. Jeolla-do (전라도: 전주 + 나주) can be left as is with Jeonju (전주) in the North and Naju (나주) in the South and renaming Namwon province to Suncheon (순천), which was an important administrative city during the Joseon Dynasty, could take the Southeastern province. Also, if possible, split the location of Suncheon with Suncheon in the north as a coastal location still, and then the peninsula in the south being renamed to Yeosu.

2. For Gyeongsang-do (경상도: 경주 + 상주), leaving the area of Jinju (진주) is fine if combining it into Dongnae would make it too big, while splitting the area of Daegu as depicted, with the area's northern third going to Andong and the rest going to Dongnae would be fine. Then, renaming Andong to Sangju (상주) and Dongnae to Gyeongju (경주) would help with the province structuring.

3. The current Yanggwangdo should remove the province of Hanseong from it and a couple locations in modern-day Gangwon-do before being renamed to Chungcheong-do (충청도: 충주 + 청주), which would then leave Chungju (충주) as is and then combine Gongju and Hongju into Cheongju (청주), although if that results in a big Cheongju, then it would be enough to just rename Gongju Province to Cheongju.

4. The current Donggye Area should remove the province of Hwaju from it and receive the locations of Wonju, Yeongwol, Pyeongchang and Jeongseon, which were
moved from Chungcheong-do before being renamed to Gangwon-do (강원도: 강릉 + 원주). Gangneung (강릉) Province could be left as is, with the renaming two provinces being combined into one province named Wonju (원주). If for gameplay purposes, this results in Wonju being too large, then it could be left as the original province formation with the Southern one being named Wonju and the Northern one left as Chuncheon or renamed to Hoeyang depending on the locations contained in each province.

5. Hanseong Province ideally would be elevated to an area and gain the locations of Kaeseong, Icheon, and Jipyeong, before being renamed to Gyeonggi-do (경기도), which in Korean means the province surrounding the capital. If it would work gameplay-wise for one province to also be entirely one area, I think that would be preferable. If it had to be split, then there could be a possibility to split it north-south, with Hanseong Province in the North, containing Hanseong, Kaeseong, and other locations, and the South renamed Suwon Province. But ideally, leaving it as one province in one area would be ideal and historical. Also, please rename Namgyeong to Hanseong at the start of the game, or even better, through an event when the Joseon Dynasty comes to power.

6. Seohaedo should be renamed to Hwanghae-do (황해도: 황주 + 해주). Haeju (해주) Province can be left as is, with the now Kaeseong province without the Kaeseong location being renamed to Hwangju (황주) Province and gaining the location of Bongju from Haeju Province, and gaining the locations of the eponymous Hwangju and Junghwa from Seogyeong Province.

7. Bukgye Area should gain the province of Ganggye with the exception of Jangjin(?) Location, which should get combined into Gapsan Province and then renamed Pyeongan-do (평안도: 평양 + 안주). After, please rename the location of Seogyeong to Pyeongyang (평양), alongside the province it's in, and then give it the locations of Sukju, Sunju, Deokju, and Yeongwon from North Seogyeong Province. If it results in Pyeongyang becoming too big of a province, North Seogyeong could be left as is and renamed to Anju province. Then, if you could rename Jeongju location to Anju (안주), or even better, create a new location in the eastern half of Jeongju location and a little big of Gaeju location to create the new location of Anju. This would better represent its historical location of Anju between the cities/townships of Jeongju, Sukju, and Gaeju. Uiju Province can be left as is if North Seogyeong remains the same and is renamed to Anju Province. If the locations of Sukju, Sunju, Deokju, and Yeongwon were given to Seogyeong/Pyeongyang Province, then give the rest of North Seogyeong to Uiju Province and rename Uiju to Anju.

8. And finally, Yonggil Area should lose Ganggye Province to Pyeongan-do, with the exception of Jangjin Location in Ganggye Province, while gaining Hwaju Province from Gangwon-do before being renamed Hamgyeong-do (함경도: 함흥 + 경성). Province names and locations are fine at a surface level, but I'll see if there's more research I could do about it.


This is how I would suggest the restructuring of the areas in Korea into the traditional Eight Provinces of Joseon/Korea. I recognize that the game does start during the twilight of the Goryeo Dynasty, but given that the game will be during the historical rule of the Joseon Dynasty for the remaining 450 or so years, and that the Eight Provinces still have lasting cultural differences in Korea to this day, it would make for a more impactful change.


Oh, and I also wanted to back up a Jeju culture for the island of Jeju, since the dialect difference there can still be seen even today when compared to the rest of the peninsular Korea.
 
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So in one of the most informative videos we can see some changes to Korea's raw materials:
Old
New
1746867324820.png
1746867312925.png
For better visual clarity I have marked in the changes:
1746868054081.png

Boseong on the southern coast was split, the new location has fish. Beeswax was added to two locations. Yeongcheon has medicaments now instead of lumber.
My suggestion for adding iron and coal to the north, where Korea first industrialized, was implemented. Nice!

However, I have three comments to make regarding the current raw material setup...
  • Since coal and iron were added but none were removed, Korea, a country that did not industrialize until the 20th century, now has quite a lot of it.
    The general policy, according to Pavía, is that resources which were exploited in the time period are represented in the game. I suggested iron and coal in the north as a compromise, since that region was the first to industrialize, but at the same time, I don't think other parts of Korea should have as much coal. The two coal locations on the eastern coast don't even line up with existing coal deposits, neither historical nor modern, so I'm suggesting for them to be removed and for the coal in Mungyeong to be swapped with the wool in Yeongwol, as this location is a historical site for coal production (as mentioned in my linked post).
    As for iron, I don't have sources for historical iron mining sites in the time period (if anyone does, please post them!), so I can't comment on the distribution, but I guess that the iron locations that exist now are just below what would feel "too much". The east coast could maybe do with one less...
  • In the video I took the screenshot of, Korea was able to produce a huge amount of gold (and later jewelry), exporting it to all the markets in range. That makes me wonder: should Korea really have 6 locations with gold? That's a very high density! Gold mining was absolutely a thing, but to this degree? There was a post here in this thread that also questioned the gold density, and I think the gameplay video made the problem pretty obvious.
  • With soybeans merged into legumes, there more legumes here now. Maybe a few could be changed for rice? I'm especially looking at the farmland locations of Inju (fish) and Namgyeon (legumes) that could be rice instead...
I like the vegetation map by the way! :p
 
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[*]With soybeans merged into legumes, there more legumes here now. Maybe a few could be changed for rice? I'm especially looking at the farmland locations of Inju (fish) and Namgyeon (legumes) that could be rice instead...
unironically, in the last year i had just read an article in chosun ilbo(or donga ilbo?), it said the plantation of rice is the evil residue of the imperial japan, so nowadays we great koreans must remove the rice plantation and back to plant our traditional main grain crop sorghum again.

tldr: it harms the feelings of great koreans if you made them plant rice.
 
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The northeastern province of Do (道) was originally the land where the king's business was first established, and for a long time, people feared his majesty and thought of his grace, so the chieftain of the wild people came from far away and moved to Irantuman (移闌豆漫).[1] They all came to serve Taejo (Lee Seong-gye), always carrying a bow and sword, and entered the palace to serve him from the left and right. They never failed to follow him when he went on an eastern expedition or a western campaign. The Jurchen were called Odori Tuman.[2] In Gyaonmungeotteomool (夾溫猛哥帖木兒), Grandfather Tumen (火兒阿豆漫), Goron Ahechoo (古論阿哈出), Taon Tumen (托溫豆漫), Ga-mang Bul- eo (高卜兒閼), Haran Dodarugachi (哈闌都達魯花赤)[3] Hitan Harangkae (奚灘訶郞哈) and Samsan Mingan (參散猛安)[4] Gorondurantumul (古論豆闌帖木兒) · Irantumenmingan (移闌豆漫猛安) · Poyimou Yueju (甫亦莫兀兒住) · Haebunmingan (海洋猛安)[5] Golya Kwaetmul (括兒牙火失帖木兒) · Adu-geo-myeong-gan (阿都哥猛安) Ah- tun-won-jeo (奧屯完者) · Shan-chun-myeong-gan (實眼春猛安) Hitan-ta-si (奚灘塔斯) · Gia-ju-myeong-gan (甲州猛安) Yun- gang-go (雲剛括) · Hong-gyeong-myeong-gan (洪肯猛安)[6] Golya Onan , Haetun Mingan, Juhu Quitun , and Tulumingan[7] Gyaon Buheo (夾溫不花), Wihe Minggan (幹合猛安), Hitan Xueru (奚灘薛列), Uhuliminggan (兀兒忽里猛安), Gyaon Chihuri (夾溫赤兀里), Ashaminggan (阿沙猛安), Juhu Indaho (朱胡引答忽), Ninchukesiminggan (紉出闊失猛安), Juhu Yuanjeo (朱胡完者), Olongso Minggan (吾籠所猛安), Nuntu Guru (暖禿古魯), Hitan Boya (奚灘孛牙), The Tango Hitan Guyunu of the Tumenmingan Goron Bori and Amora[8] And, Woo-ryang-gae (兀郞哈) is the Golya Bal-so (括兒牙八兒速) of Tumen (土門), and Heo-jin U-di-ga (嫌眞兀狄哈) is the Goju (古州)[9] The Golya Kimuna (括兒牙乞木那), Davina (答比那), and Koldugeo (可兒答哥) are these, the Namdol Udiger (南突兀狄哈) is Shupinggang (速平江) and Namdol Arakah Bayan (南突阿刺哈伯顔) are these, and the Kolkan Oljeokhap (闊兒看兀狄哈) is Yanchun (眼春) and Golya Tuchinggae (括兒牙禿成改) are these. (translation from namuwiki)
東北一道 本肇基之地也 畏威懷德久矣。[懷 念思也。]野人酋長 遠至移闌豆漫 [이란투먼]皆來服事 常佩弓劒 入衛 潛邸 昵侍 左右 本征西伐 靡不從焉。[長 上聲 下同。斡朶里 火兒阿[홀아] 托溫[타온] 三城 其俗謂之移闌豆漫。猶言三萬戶也。蓋以萬戶三人 分領其地 故名之。自慶源府西北行 一月而至。] 如女眞 則幹朶里豆漫夾溫猛哥帖木兒 [갸온거터물]火兒阿豆漫古論阿哈出 [고론어허츄]托溫豆漫高卜兒閼 [불어][○朶 都果切。斡朶里 地名 在海西[]江之東 火兒阿江之西。火兒阿 亦地名 在二江合流之東 蓋因江爲名也。托溫 亦地名 在二江合流之下。二江皆自西而北流 三城相次㳂江。夾溫 姓也。哥 居何切。猛哥帖木兒 名也。古論 姓。阿哈出 名也。高 姓也。閼 阿葛切。卜兒閼 名也。]哈闌都達魯花赤奚灘訶郞哈 [히탄하랑캐][○奚灘 姓也。訶 虎何切。訶郞哈 名也。]參散猛安[간]古論豆蘭帖木兒 [고론두란터물][○猛安 千夫長 卽今之千戶也。古論豆蘭帖木兒 卽李豆蘭也 後改名之蘭。得與 開國定 社佐 命功臣之列。 太祖常稱曰 豆蘭馳獵之才 人有比者。至於臨陣擊賊 無出其右。]移闌豆漫猛安甫亦莫兀兒住 [모월쥬][○甫亦莫 姓。兀兒住 名也。]海洋[해연]猛安括兒牙火失帖木兒 [골야쾻티물][○海洋 地名 在今吉州。自海洋北行五十里至泰神[탸신] 自泰神東行六十里至的遏發[더]。海洋 泰神 的遏發 三處 各有猛安。其俗謂之三海洋。括 古活切。括兒牙 姓。火失帖木兒 名也。]阿都哥[어두워]猛安奧屯完者 [튼원져][○阿都哥 地名 自移闌豆漫東行四日而至。奧 於到切。奧屯 姓。完者 名也。]實眼春[샨츈]猛安奚灘塔斯 [히탄타][○實眼春 地名 自慶源府北行二日而至。東距奚關城一日程 南距豆漫江二日程。塔斯 人名也。]甲州[갸쥬]猛安雲剛括 [운강고][○甲州 卽今甲山郡 本虛川府。火爲胡人所據 屢經兵火 無人居。高麗恭讓王三年 始置甲州萬戶府。 本朝 太宗十三年 改稱甲山。其山鎭曰天鳳。今屬咸吉道。雲 姓。剛括 名也。]洪肯猛安括兒牙兀難 [골야오난][○兀難 人名也。]海通[해툰]猛安朱胡貴洞 [쥬후귀툰][○海通 地名 自實眼春西北行三目而至。朱胡 姓。貴洞 名也。]禿魯兀[툴우]猛安夾溫不花 [갸온부허][○禿魯兀 卽今端川也。尹瓘逐胡人置九城 以爲福州防禦使。後改端州安撫使。 本朝 太祖七年 改知端州郡事。 太宗十三年 改端川。其山鎭曰道德。別號端城。今屬咸吉道。不花 人名也。]斡合[워허]猛安奚灘薛列 [히탄서러][○斡合 地名 在今鏡城府南百二十里。其地有圓石屹立 高可二百餘丈。西有猛安川 東流過立石下 又北流入于海。其俗謂石爲斡合 故因名其地焉。薛列 人名也。]兀兒忽里[울후리]猛安夾溫赤兀里 [갸온치우리][○兀兒忽里 地名 自實眼春北行五日而至。東距眼春[얀츈]三日程 北距速平[수핑]江二日程也。赤兀里 人名也。]阿沙[아샤]猛安朱胡引答忽 [쥬후인다호][○阿沙 卽今利城縣也。我 殿下十九年 割北靑府多甫迤北 端川郡磨雲嶺迤南之地 置縣。今屬咸吉道。引答忽 人名也。]紉出闊失[닌시]猛安朱胡完者 [쥬후원져][○紉 泥隣切。紉出闊失 地名 自慶興府北行一日 渡豆漫江而至。南距幹東九十里許 東距眼春一日程。其地有大澤 産眞抹。其俗謂眞珠爲紉出闊失 故因名其地焉。完者 人名也。]吾籠所猛安暖禿古魯[넌투그루]奚灘孛牙 [히탄보야][○籠 盧東切。吾籠所 水名 自鍾城綠楊峴[로양재] 北流過東林城 入豆漫江。西北距慶源僅六十里也。暖禿 姓。古魯 名也。孛 蒲沒切。孛牙 人名也。]土門[투문]猛安古論孛里 [고론보리][○土門 地名 在豆漫江之北。南距慶流六十里 西距常家下[샹가하]一日程也。孛里 人名也。]阿木剌[아모라]唐括[탕고]奚灘古玉奴。[히탄구유누][○阿木剌 地名 自慶源北行一日 繼阿剌孫어러 站 又行五日而至 東距實隣시린古城三日程 北距速平江下流一日程也 唐括 猶言百戶也 古玉奴 人名也。]兀良哈則土門括兒牙八兒速。[골야발소][○兀良哈 部種名也。八兒速 人名也。]嫌眞[혐진]兀狄哈 則古州[구쥬]括兒牙乞木那 [골야키무나]答比那[다비나]可兒答哥。[컬더거][○嫌眞兀狄哈 部種名也。古州 地名 在速平江之傍。自會寧府北行二日至阿赤郞貴[아치랑귀] 又行一日至常家下 又行四日至古州。西距先春[샨춘]嶺四日程也。乞木那爲一人。答比那爲一人。可兒答哥爲一人。三人 親兄弟也。]南突[남돌]兀狄哈 則速平江南突阿剌哈伯顔 [남돌아라카바얀][○南突 姓也。南突兀狄哈 部種名 因人姓以名焉。速平江 源出古州界 東流入于海。阿剌哈 人名也 其俗稱富人爲伯顔。]闊兒看[콜칸]兀狄哈 則眼春括兒牙禿成改[골야투칭개]等是也。[闊兒看兀狄哈 部種名 水居以捕魚爲生者也。眼春 地名 在東海南岸。南距慶興一百二十里 西距奚關城一百五十里也。禿成改 人名也。] 太祖卽位 量授萬戶千戶之職。[量 平聲。]使李豆蘭 招安女眞 被髮之俗 盡襲冠帶。改禽獸之行 習禮義之敎 與國人相昏。服役納賦 無異編戶。且恥役於酋長 皆願爲國民。[行 去聲。禮。娶婦以昏時 故曰昏也。服 事也。編 卑眼切 相聯次也。民 謂之編民 亦謂之編戶者 言比屋聯次而居 編於民籍 無高下之差也。]

[출처]: 한국학통합플랫폼(https://kdp.aks.ac.kr/) 한국고전원문자료관(https://kdp.aks.ac.kr/classic)
The last names of these chieftains are typically Manchu while their first are from Mongolian names (Last name + First Name). It is easy to tell most of their Manchu names but I am not familiar with Mongolian names so I can't figure out many of them in Mongolian. Additionally, it is the common case that Jurchen chieftains had more than one names in different language. For example, the Mingghan of Samsa, Gurun Duran Timur, had a Korean name, Lee Jiran, who helped the Taejo of Jeseon overthrew the Goryeo Kingdom.
  1. Ilan Hala
    1. Hurha/Hurga Tumen - Gurun/Wanggiya Ahachu (Gurun means state surname = Wanggiya) (Tumen: ten thousand men; Mingghan: one thousands; Tanggūda: one hundred men. Korean transliterations were applied by default if I can't find the correspondent Mongolian names.
    2. Ton Tumen - Heseri (Heseri = Gao)/Gūwalgiya Buleo (Onseong (Wencheng) was established in 1440 by Sejong the Great of Joseon. This name is a compound word consisting of Chinese character On (稳) from Daonphyeng (多温平; 다온평), and Seong (城; city, literally City of Daonphyeng. According to Liu Yang (2023), Daoon is alternative form of Ton (桃温 Tao Wen; 温 was used in Yuan-dynasty transliteration of Jurchen (女真译语) for an ending -n) Clan from Ilan Hala, who formed Jianzhou Jurchen in the late 14th century. Daonphyeng might be Korean transliteration of Jurchen Ton Bigan following the g->h rule.)
    3. Ilan Tumen Mingghan - Foimo Yueju (part of Hurha, Odoli, and Ton)
  2. Helan Darughachi - Hitara Helanka
  3. Samsan Mingghan - Gurun/Wanggiya Duran Timur
  4. Hajan Mingghan - Gūwalgiya Qoš? Timur
  5. Adugeo Mingghan - Etung Ölǰei
  6. Syanchyun Mingghan - Hitara Tās?
  7. Giaju Mingghan - Yun/Esuri (Yun = Esuri) Gang-go
  8. Hongkung Mingghan - Gūwalgiya Onan
  9. Haetun Mingghan- Juhu Quitun
  10. Utueul Mingghan - Gioro Buqa
  11. Wiheo Mingghan - Hitara Xueru
  12. Umheumri Mingghan - Gioro Čo'ur? Čelig?
  13. Eosa Mingghan - Juhu Yesüder?
  14. Nicuhe Mingghan - Juhu Ölǰei
  15. Olongso Mingghan - Nuantu? Guru & Hitara Boya
  16. Tumen Mingghan - Gurun Bori
  17. Amora Tanggūda - Hitara Guyunu
  18. Hyomjin Udikhai from Goju (no title) - Gūwalgiya Kimuna, Davina, and Koldugeo brothers
  19. Namdulu Udikhai from Ussuri River (no title) - Namdulu Arakah Bayan
  20. Kurkan Udikhai from Syanchyun (no title) - Gūwalgiya Tuchinggae
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Note: I think the transliteration of Namuwiki might be a machine translation but still used it as a source of transliteration. I have little knowledge of Korean language and if you find anything wrong with the transliteration, please comment and give me some suggestions. This source reflects the late 14th-century distribution of Jurchen, particular in the 1350s and 1360s, so the names of these chieftains in 1337 were still unknown. The father of Gurun Duran Timur (4. Samsan in the map, i.e. Lee Jiran) was 阿羅不花 (아라부카; probabaly Arabuqa).
 

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Thanks for sharing Korean information on the Jurchens, but I have lots of revisions on your proposal.
Before I begin, I’d like to clarify that I personally believe the northeastern regions of Goryeo were more likely Societies of pops rather than fully settled states. However, I also understand the developers’ reasoning for portraying them as settled states.

Here is my feedback:

View attachment 1236432
View attachment 1236431
A. [Haran]

This region has long been referred to in Goryeo as “갈라전” (Galajeon) or “karran.” The term “karran” is believed to have originated from the Jurchens who lived in the area, as they called it “Haran.” Therefore, I believe “Haran” would be a fitting name for this region.

B. [Muragu]

This region was known as “경성-Gyeongseong” (mirror town) during the Joseon Dynasty. The Jurchens who inhabited the area reportedly called it “Murlango” or “Muragu.” Interestingly, the term “Muragu” is said to mean “mirror” in the Jurchen language, which is why the Joseon Dynasty later adopted the name “Gyeongseong” with the same meaning. Given this historical context, I believe “Muragu” would be a fitting name for this region.

C. [Pajeo]

This area was referred to as “파저 여진-Pajeo Jurchen” by Goryeo and Joseon for a long time. Unfortunately, it’s unclear what the Jurchens themselves called this place. One plausible explanation is that the land was harsh and sparsely populated, making it difficult to establish any distinct local name. Given this uncertainty, I think “Pajeo” would be the most appropriate name for this region.

D. [Uryangkhad]

I believe the name "Uryangkhad" would suit this area well. Goryeo and Joseon referred to this region as "올량합" (Uryangkhad) for many years. One important point to note is that, while it may sound similar to "Uriankhai" (referring to a branch of the Mongols), the two names are actually distinct, with "Uryangkhad" referring to a Jurchen group. Therefore, I think "Uryangkhad" is a fitting name for this region.

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E. [Odoli] or [Udege]

If the Jianzhou Jurchens moved to the Hunchun-Tumen area at the game’s starting point, then I think the name “오도리-Odoli” would be the most appropriate. However, if the Jianzhou Jurchens moved to Hetu Ala instead, then “우데게-Udege,” which reflects the region’s historically dominant group, would be a better fit.

F. [Naran]

I believe the name “Naran” would be appropriate for this region. Historical records from the Joseon Dynasty refer to this area as “나란” (Naran). The origin of the name “Naran” may have derived from a Jurchen tribal name or a Jurchen-style place name used by the local inhabitants at the time. Later, this area was renamed “Samsu” and “Gap-san” during the Joseon period. Therefore, I believe “Naran” would be a fitting name for this region.

G. [Dungru]

I think the name “Dungru” would be fitting for this region. During the Goryeo and Joseon periods, this area was referred to as “독로” (Dokro), which may have originated from the Jurchen word “Dung-ru” used to describe the region. Later, it was renamed “Ganggye” during the Goryeo and Joseon eras. Therefore, I believe “Dungru” would be a fitting name for this region.
A. I will suggest using Hailan instead of Haran. There are some reasons:
A.1. According to Ming Shilu, Helan (or Haran) Jurchen surrended to Ming Dynasty in 1382, along with thousands of refugees from the east side of Yalu River, while Goryeo conquered Halan Fu (Hamheung) in the 1350s. This suggested that Halan Jurchen migrated from the original places from Korean Peninsular to a new place.
A.2. According to Yuan Shi (History of Yuan), Helan Fu was named after Helan River (合兰河). Helan River was considered one of the major rivers among the Ussuri and the Amur in Yuan Dynasty. Most sources I read agreed that this river is the modern Hailan River (incl. lower reach of the Tumen River) around Huncun.

B. According to your account, Muragu is a Korean transliteration of Manchu word, Buleku. I also suggest use of Hajan because it was lifted to a Tumen by Yuan Dynasty. According to Yongbieocheonga, the location got because the local Jurchen called their chieftain 海洋 (hayang; 海洋、泰伸、的遏发三处各有猛安,女真酋长之名字,其俗谓之三海洋). I think Hayang could only be Hajan in Manchu, which means fortress or villages. The Tumen was led by Kim (金) family (e.g. 弓大 Gung Dae, 金同不花 Kim Dongbulhwa, 土音不花 Toeum Bulhwa, 金方卦Kim Banggwae, 金三善Kim Samseon, 金三介 Kim Samgae)

C.D.E.F. Pajeo, Uryangkhad, Odoli, Udege, Naran, all refer to Jianzhou Jurchen or Ilan Hala, which comprised Odoli, Hurga, and Ton. Pajeo was under direct control of Yuan's Liaoyang Province with Korean majority at that time, while Jianzhou migrated into this area in late 14th century. Uryangkhad should be an alternative name for Murengka (모련위; 毛憐衛), which originated from the modern Muleng River Basin (derived form of Manchu, Morin, lit. horse), who joined Jianzhou Jurchen later. Udege or Udihe is from Manchu Weji, meaning forests. Naran also refer to Jianzhou.

C.G. I will suggest deleting these fiction chiefdoms. This region belonged to Dongnyeongbu (동녕부; 東寧府) together with former Goryeo territories during the Yuan Dynasty. The only Jurchen placename I found is on Chosan (formerly Dumokri, 豆木里 by Jurchen) but Sinjeung Dongguk yeoji seungnam said it became Korean-majority during the regime of Gongmin (around the game start). There is no reason for two Jurchen countries here.
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Goryeo had a centralized governing structure, but due to incomplete or insufficient records of local population and administration, estimates are necessary for analysis.
I conducted my research based on population data from the Population Encyclopedia of the Joseon Dynasty, published by Statistics Korea.

https://lib1.kostat.go.kr/search/detail/CAT000000078798#reviews
-1392.jpg

-1600.jpg

The year 1925 marked the first modern population census in Korea. According to this census, the total population was recorded at 19.02 million.
Meanwhile, the population in 1600 is estimated to have been around 11 million.
If we assume the Goryeo population in 1340 was 2.5 million, maintaining an average annual growth rate of 0.57% until 1600 would be highly unrealistic.
Given the frequent wars, epidemics, and famines between 1340 and 1600, the actual average population growth rate is estimated to have been around only 0.1%.

Furthermore, applying the estimated Joseon population of 5.54 million in 1392 to a base of 2.5 million implies a population explosion of 121.6%,
which is an implausible demographic change in the context of the chaotic medieval Korean Peninsula.

If we work backwards from the population of 17 million in 1910 to the figure of 5.54 million in 1392, we arrive at an average annual growth rate of approximately 0.2%.
This rate aligns with the actual population growth during the later Joseon period, factoring in suppressive events such as wars and epidemics in the late 19th century.

By applying this 0.2% growth rate in reverse to estimate the population in 1337, we can infer that the population of Goryeo in 1340 was likely around 4.95 million.


Professor Lee Young-hoon of the Department of Economics at Seoul National University estimates that the population of Goryeo was between 2.5 to 3 million in the 12th century, and around 6 million by the late 14th century.
According to him, this growth was driven by economic development during the period of increased international exchange under Mongol imperial rule, following the great upheavals of the 12th century.
Advancements in agricultural technology and land reclamation led to increased food production, which in turn supported population growth.
https://sgsg.hankyung.com/article/2019110306641
14th century.JPG


After completing the survey, I estimate the Goryeo population to be around 4.95 million in 1337
Currently, the 2.5 million Goryeo population seems to represent the Goryeo population from 1101 to 1200 in the 12th century, which was studied by Professor Lee Young-hoon


Thank you for your continued efforts to develop historically rich and immersive strategic games.
 
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This link won't work :p
By applying this 0.2% growth rate in reverse to estimate the population in 1337, we can infer that the population of Goryeo in 1340 was likely around 4.95 million.
I agree with this assessment, 0.16-0.2% is a base long-term growth rate that is estimated for many countries in this time period, with actual fertility likely being higher, but wars and epidemics leading to high mortality.

The current starting population of 2.7 million (+ a few more in the north) is way too low. And the Black Death also shouldn't spread to East Asia, as discussed in a different thread.
 
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I want to tell you about Kwon Tae-hwan and Shin Yong-ha's (1977) study that other users have mentioned a few times.
Their research is quite old, but overall, they overestimated the population of the Joseon Dynasty.
Below is the population of the Joseon Dynasty (1392-1910) they estimated.

~1493년.jpg

~1598년.jpg

~1703년.jpg

~1808년.jpg

~1910년.jpg

How is it? In 1910, the population increased by less than 10 percent compared to 1690, and less than in 1730.
In the 1925 census of Korea conducted by Japanese authorities, the Korean Peninsula had a population of about 19 million. However, because Kwon Tae-hwan and Shin Yong-ha overestimated the population of the early Joseon Dynasty, there were periods where the population growth rate was irregular and even very long-term stagnation occurred.

Moreover, according to "National Accounts of Korea 1911-2010," published in 2012, scholar Kim Nak-nyeon estimated the Korean population to be around 16.3 million around 1910. It indicates how many errors there are in the estimation of Kwon Tae-hwan and Shin Yong-ha's (1977) study in that it overestimated about 1 million around 1910. Given this, I don't think Kwon Tae-hwan and Shin Yong-ha's (1977) study mentioned by other users is a very good reference.
 
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speaking of trade goods, ginseng should be a trade good, with korea (well, anyone owning the kaesung area, really) specifically having a modifier, since korean red ginseng was both a closely guarded trade secret and very lucrative. something like doubling the price or production output since korea dominated the ginseng trade forever.

ginseng also had a roleoutside of korea, since its also plentiful in manchurian mountains the jurchens got a lot of trade wealth from ginseng and is one of the factors in them getting rich enough to form manchu. plus, there is the different subspecies but still highly traded north american ginseng which exists in the rockies, as well as a different species in souther chinese mountain ranges.
 
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speaking of trade goods, ginseng should be a trade good, with korea (well, anyone owning the kaesung area, really) specifically having a modifier, since korean red ginseng was both a closely guarded trade secret and very lucrative. something like doubling the price or production output since korea dominated the ginseng trade forever.

ginseng also had a roleoutside of korea, since its also plentiful in manchurian mountains the jurchens got a lot of trade wealth from ginseng and is one of the factors in them getting rich enough to form manchu. plus, there is the different subspecies but still highly traded north american ginseng which exists in the rockies, as well as a different species in souther chinese mountain ranges.
I feel like ginseng would be better represented by the medicaments good because if you are to add a new trade good it ends up creating global demand for that good when in reality ginseng is demand pretty localized to culturally East Asian populations.
 
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