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Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
Population 1.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
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I am kinda hoping there is an option to have all location names based on the owner's culture since this mish mash of location names in hungary randomly changing from hungarian to slovak to german, to romanian to rusyn, etc is a bit annoying.
Also I've seen that you haven't fixed the polish hungarian border yet, I recall someone mentioning it on the tinto maps thread about poland that you used the modern border between slovakia and poland as a benchmark and thus parts of the Árva and Szepes province which were part of the kindgom of hungary until 1920 are in this upcoming game part of poland which wouldn't make sense. But I guess that seeing as you are likely planning in the increase the density of said area you likely have it listed under to do, at least I hope so.

A question, if the location density gets changed to be more denser will it then be reposted in a new tinto maps to get another community review on it just in case?
 
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So you haven't only not fixed the lack of the Principality of Muzaka, but you've given all of Topia to the Duchy of Durrazzo? Absurd.
dude its the first TT Maps on the region where they are taking feedback. No need to open it like a dick when they are busy reviewing other regions feedback and doing minority pops for the Middle East. They put down a decent foundation to get feedback on
 
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Why is Transylvania not a vassal of Hungary? They were were controlled by the Hungarian crown but they were semi independent state and is explained in the excellent book "A Brief Illustrated History of the Romanian Peoples" by Neagu Djuvara
 
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dude its the first TT Maps on the region where they are taking feedback. No need to open it like a dick when they are busy reviewing other regions feedback and doing minority pops for the Middle East. They put down a decent foundation to get feedback on
Yeah all the review threads have been gigantic so far. People should stop being negative and just write long posts with sources.
 
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first disclaimers:
im not from the balkans,
and im not some history or linguistic student who has research papers n stuff to cite.
im a history and linguistics fan.
especially maps c:

the splitting of south slavic into bulgarian, serbian, bosnian, croatian and slovenian does make sense, but its /not/ a language/dialects division. (which it was called in the dev reply)

linguistically - and especially for 1337 - the lingustic split would be more like;
bulgarian
serbo-croatian
slovenian

or perhaps a five way split within the centre of;
kajkavian
chakavian
western shtokavian
eastern shtokavian
torlakian (serbian/ bulgarian transistion)

note though that the names and concepts of those dialects are very modern, even if the divergence and features can be traced further back.

croatian maps onto kajkavian in the north and chakavian in the south, with kajkavian being closer to slovene and chakavian closer to shtokavian (bosnian/serbian)

but medieval speakers of both those two just thought of themselves as croatian (aswell as slavic and illyrian)

as previously said by devs, bosnians already had a discrete identity by this time.

none of these identities are immutable though.


i like the current culture splits for south slavic
rusyn should be merged with ruthenian
and transylvanian with wallachian.

seems to be that a decent part of the preliminary decision process for cultures is what state a population has been living under.
 
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Regarding the locations of Tulnici and Focsani, I would like to recommend some modifications:
- While Tulnici is a present major day settlement in the area, the commonly known name for the Area is that of "Tara Vrancei" (Country of Vrancea), or simply "Vrancea", which is not to be confused with present day Vrancea county which incorporates the in-game locations of Tulnici and Focsani.

Map of Vrancea Country superimposed over the present-day Romanian Vrancea county:

The map of the in-game locations from what I can see resembles in some measures the Putna county of the interwar period (this map below also has the location of Adjud added, and Vrancea would be hashed part):

My suggestion would be to expand the Tulnici county a bit eastward and rename it to Vrancea:


Regarding the location of Focsani, I would suggest renaming it to Putna, or Craciuna, as Focsani is a pretty modern settlement which was predated by Craciuna/Odobesti

EDIT: For some reason, I cannot add links for either Tara Vrancei or Craciuna fortress.
 
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Last edited:
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Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
View attachment 1158260
Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
View attachment 1158528
The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
View attachment 1158264
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
View attachment 1158268
Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
View attachment 1158270
View attachment 1158271
View attachment 1158272
Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
View attachment 1158273
Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
View attachment 1158274
This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1158275
The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
View attachment 1158276
The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
View attachment 1158277
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
View attachment 1158260
Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
View attachment 1158528
The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
View attachment 1158264
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
View attachment 1158268
Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
View attachment 1158270
View attachment 1158271
View attachment 1158272
Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
View attachment 1158273
Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
View attachment 1158274
This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1158275
The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
View attachment 1158276
The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
View attachment 1158277
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
View attachment 1158260
Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
View attachment 1158528
The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
View attachment 1158264
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
View attachment 1158268
Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
View attachment 1158270
View attachment 1158271
View attachment 1158272
Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
View attachment 1158273
Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
View attachment 1158274
This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1158275
The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
View attachment 1158276
The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
View attachment 1158277
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
Some location suggestions for Hungary:
Trnava (Slovak) - Nagyszombat (Hungarian) The city existed in 1211 and already recieved the Free Royal Town priviliges in 1238 from king Béla III. It was the first to do so in modern Slovakia, later it hosted a university founded in 1635 during the counter-reformation. Ideally it could take land from all 5 locations in the Pozsony region.
žilina - Zsolna By the game start the city already had a castle and a temple, it also got free royal town priviliges in 1321. It was important for defense against the hussites, and you could chip off the fairly large location of Trencin.
žiar nad hronom- Garamszentkereszt In this one I am not so certain since there are multiple fairly credible mentions of the city dating from 1075 to the late 13th century but after that no mention of it exists until the guild foundings of the mid 1500s so unless you need to add something there than this is just a minor footnote.
Bardejov - Bártfa First mentions of it in the 1240s, it sits on an important trade route, it was a destination for many german settlers in the Spiš region. It got it´s free royal town priviliges by 1370, by the 1490s it was mentioned as one of the few towns in the Kingdom of Hungary which had an early form of a judicial system.
Szombathely- First mentioned in medieval times was in 875 when Arnulf gave the town to the Salzburgian archbishopship, in 1007 St. Stephen gave it to the Győr bishopric, it got town rank in 1407 but definitely existed by game start.
Nagykanizsa - First mentioned in 1245 as part of a land grant, by 1323 it had a castle and by the late 14th century we know the citys tarrif income, and of its indulgences recieved from the pope.
For city based location suggestions that is it, maybe adding brasov would make sense but I also got suggestions for locations based on etnographic regions.
Nógrád, to make the Balassagyarmat and Hont location smaller.
Tata, should take land from Győr, Komárom, Veszprém and Székesfehérvár.
Minor footnotes:
Zilina definitely has a german population by game start, Bardejov also.
Szombathely has a sizable south slavic population.
The region name Somogy is not correct, maybe a South Transdanubia and giving Gyor North Transdanubia or something like that.
I do not know how you people are naming locations, is it just cities, or a mix of cities and ethnographic regions? If so, which has a higher priority? Because if it is ethnographic than there are multiple locations in Hungary which are named after cities that are named after their respective ethnographic regions, and I can help with pinpointing to which and fixing them.
Surprised to see no feature of the Puszta as such, a few locations in the Alföld could probably be made sparse terrain.
Also giving Kassa wine as a trade good would make sense, it is a wine producing region since Roman times (Tokaj).
 
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Yeah all the review threads have been gigantic so far. People should stop being negative and just write long posts with sources.
If you want to be upset and have a hissy fit at least provide academic sources with properly written references is what I say
 
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Reactions:
Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
View attachment 1158260
Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
View attachment 1158528
The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
View attachment 1158264
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
View attachment 1158268
Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
View attachment 1158270
View attachment 1158271
View attachment 1158272
Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
View attachment 1158273
Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
View attachment 1158274
This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1158275
The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
View attachment 1158276
The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
View attachment 1158277
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
View attachment 1158260
Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
View attachment 1158528
The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
View attachment 1158264
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
View attachment 1158268
Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
View attachment 1158270
View attachment 1158271
View attachment 1158272
Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
View attachment 1158273
Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
View attachment 1158274
This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1158275
The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
View attachment 1158276
The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
View attachment 1158277
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!

Please remove the stripes for the Serbian regions of Macedonia and Kosovo & Metohija. There were no Albanians in said areas, they only started coming there to live at like 1500s and it was only 1% then... At 1337 there were not even 1% of them... Please have some history professor assist you with these things... It is unnecessary to make such assumptions, those kind of things made me stop playing HOI4. Macedonia had Bulgarians and Serbs living there. Cheers from Serbia
 
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Some location suggestions for Hungary:
Trnava (Slovak) - Nagyszombat (Hungarian) The city existed in 1211 and already recieved the Free Royal Town priviliges in 1238 from king Béla III. It was the first to do so in modern Slovakia, later it hosted a university founded in 1635 during the counter-reformation. Ideally it could take land from all 5 locations in the Pozsony region.
žilina - Zsolna By the game start the city already had a castle and a temple, it also got free royal town priviliges in 1321. It was important for defense against the hussites, and you could chip off the fairly large location of Trencin.
žiar nad hronom- Garamszentkereszt In this one I am not so certain since there are multiple fairly credible mentions of the city dating from 1075 to the late 13th century but after that no mention of it exists until the guild foundings of the mid 1500s so unless you need to add something there than this is just a minor footnote.
Bardejov - Bártfa First mentions of it in the 1240s, it sits on an important trade route, it was a destination for many german settlers in the Spiš region. It got it´s free royal town priviliges by 1370, by the 1490s it was mentioned as one of the few towns in the Kingdom of Hungary which had an early form of a judicial system.
Szombathely- First mentioned in medieval times was in 875 when Arnulf gave the town to the Salzburgian archbishopship, in 1007 St. Stephen gave it to the Győr bishopric, it got town rank in 1407 but definitely existed by game start.
Nagykanizsa - First mentioned in 1245 as part of a land grant, by 1323 it had a castle and by the late 14th century we know the citys tarrif income, and of its indulgences recieved from the pope.
For city based location suggestions that is it, maybe adding brasov would make sense but I also got suggestions for locations based on etnographic regions.
Nógrád, to make the Balassagyarmat and Hont location smaller.
Tata, should take land from Győr, Komárom, Veszprém and Székesfehérvár.
Minor footnotes:
Zilina definitely has a german population by game start, Bardejov also.
Szombathely has a sizable south slavic population.
The region name Somogy is not correct, maybe a South Transdanubia and giving Gyor North Transdanubia or something like that.
I do not know how you people are naming locations, is it just cities, or a mix of cities and ethnographic regions? If so, which has a higher priority? Because if it is ethnographic than there are multiple locations in Hungary which are named after cities that are named after their respective ethnographic regions, and I can help with pinpointing to which and fixing them.
Surprised to see no feature of the Puszta as such, a few locations in the Alföld could probably be made sparse terrain.
Also giving Kassa wine as a trade good would make sense, it is a wine producing region since Roman times (Tokaj).
Brasov is currently already there; It's Kruhnen (Kronnstadt). ;)
 
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Were Bosnians really separate from Serbians or Croats at that point in time? Wasn't a Bosnian cultural identity only shaped later, during the ottoman times?
lol what? no? even in de administrando imperio constantine writes about the people in bosnia, in charter of kulin ban in 1189 he writes "Ja, Ban Bosanski Kulin, obećavam Tebi kneže Krvašu i svim građanima Dubrovčanima pravim Vam prijateljem biti od sada i dovijeka." which literally translates to me, , ban bosnian kulin, promise you prince krvaš and all citizens of dubrovnik to be your true friend from now on and forever. plus it was wroten in bosnian cyrillic so yeah. and after that the first bosnian king that would be born in 1338 tvrtko 1 says "Ja, kralj Tvrtko Bošnjanin, vo imja Gospodina nebeskogo, imja naroda Bosnskogo Vama kazujem: O bratijo vlastelini, sokoli, vuci, junaci bosanski, kojekude vo našoj Bosnici." the important part of that is the beginning where he says "king tvrtko bosnian" in old bosnian so yeah
 
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Really waiting for eu 5 release. About the culture map:

"Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region)"

Why simply not call them romanians or wallachians, since this culture name was put in wallachia and moldavia.
 
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@Zeprion I think that our workflow is kind of clear, but I'll explain it one more time.

Each week we post a Tinto Maps DD, for a region. We ask the community to post their feedback in these DDs, as it's the easier way for us to look at it, reply to it, and gather it in an organized way. Some time after (usually, some weeks), we put each Tinto Maps region into our development pipeline again, and we make the review of it. When we think that all the feedback has been gathered, analyzed, and implemented, we share the review with the community, to show the results of their feedback, and to also have an extra feedback/sanity pass.

Given this workflow, what is useful for us is:
- Posts in the Tinto Maps DDs with detailed feedback, if possible supported by sources.
- Links to specific posts in other threads open by the community, with the results of, maybe, months or weeks of discussion.

What is not useful for us is:
- Threads outside the Tinto Maps that are not linked in the Tinto Maps (we might be reading them, yes, but is way easier for us if you link us here the results of the discussion, again, as we can review the feedback way more faster, in an organized way).
- Repeating the same post several times in the same DD, as then you are making 'noise', that is making us more difficult to gather the different feedback.
- Complaints about previous PDX projects. This is Project Caesar, and I think that we're quite clear on what we are asking from the community for it, and the results we're giving in return (you can check any of the previous 3 Tinto Maps Review, for the Low Countries, Iberia, and France).

Three more things. Our maps will never be perfect, and will always have errors. However, we want to make them the best possible, as this is why we are taking so seriously the community feedback in this project. Let's put it this way: we have several Spanish content designers in the team (as Paradox Tinto is based on Sitges, Spain), who care a lot about our region, and we still had several errors to correct in the Iberian map, that we could tackle thanks to the community.

The second is about our care or carelessness about specific regions. We try to put the same care on each one, although sometimes it's easier, and sometimes it's harder. But, at the end of the day, we want a consistent result in all of them. We will devote to all of them the time we might need to, in due time. Because, for example, in the Polish/Baltic/Ruthenian Tinto Maps we have whooping 52 pages, with over 1,000 thousand posts to review. So we will continue following our working schedule, in order to make this possible.

Finally, we don't have anything against Romanians, or any other peoples or cultures, and we do care about all of them at the same level. We have a Romanian culture group (how that works, will be explained in a future Tinto Talks), that includes Wallachian, Transylvanian, Aromanian, Istroromanian (a culture that I didn't mention in the DD, but that is present in 3 locations, Buzet, Pazin, and Rovinj), and potentially Moldavian, if created by the events I just mentioned a couple of posts above. So we think that is quite a decent representation of the culture.
As per my message, I would like to apologize for my overreaction in the thread after seeing the map. Given that you knew about the topic I made and Corpus Draculianum I expected a more accurate Transylvania and Moldavia. As Ludi et Historia said, the cultural makeup of Transylvania is very inaccurate, as is the Moldovan bit. It would be small moldovan pre statal entities, not just a part of Golden Horde.

So I took having the resources but nothing done about it as lack of care about the situation of Romania, for which there is a precedent in CK2, CK3, EU4 and HOI4.

With a cool head after that moment, I can tell that you have a lot of work to do and simply not enough time to research everything.

I believe the repost I made from my old topic in this thread counts as feesback, as such there is no point rewriting it. I would only add this:

- Transylvania should have more Romanians than it has, specifically majorities in Southern Transylvania, Banat, Crișana and Maramureș. (The 3 Romanian, Hungarian and Overalp shown in the previous post)

- Moldavia rather than the Golden Horde should have small moldovan pre statal entities, with the strongest being the Princiapality of Baia (The Moldavia map from the previous post)

- If you wish to split the Romanians. The: Wallachian, Moldavian, Transylvanian, Aromanian, Istroromanian under the Romanian group would be incorrect. Because Wallachians, Transylvanians and Moldavians are Romanian, but Aromanians and Istroromanians are not Romanians. The tree would look like this:

Eastern Romance
- Romanians (Wallachian, Transylvanian, Moldavian)
- Aromanians
- Istroromanians

All had Slavic influence, but Romanians had more Slavic influence than the rest, Aromanians had Greek influence, and Istroromanians had Italian influence.

As you can see from the feedback of others, splitting Romanians intro Wallachians, Moldavians and Transylvanians makes no sense as this point because they were culturally the same. Only later in the 17th-19th centuries the difference became noticeable and it was only small things. They are not at all like the Germans and Italians.

The difference between various Italian and German cultures would be more akin to the difference between Romanians, Aromanians and Istroromanians.

Thus having Romanians, Aromanians and Istroromanians under an Eastern Romance umbrella would be correct.

Having Wallachians, Moldavians, Transylvanians, Aromanians and Istroromanians under a Romanian umbrella would not make sense.
 
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I made account jut for this.

Completely disagree about Slavic division.

First Bulgarian were minority in lands they conquered and then they got assimilated with culture they conquered so they should be also considered southern Slavic-speaking culture if not you should add at least one of many South Slavic tribes and make then majority on that territory as they were.

Second (and more important for me) is Bosnian as culture shouldn't exist, Bosnia was one of first Serbian lands and there were many rulers, dynasty Kotromanić is Serbian dynasty and we have Stefan Tvrtko I Kotromanić who got crowned on grave of Serbian saint Sava as Serbian King of Serbian lands. Idea for Bosnian as a language will appear century or few later.


I have exam coming up in few days so I couldn't read all my books on it but I just stole history book for Serbian 3rd grade of highschool from my lil sis (I know I stole it like I am some Romanian/Vlach not Wallachian) just to check things out about Tvrtko. I know only one book for highschoolers probably isn't enough of source for you guys to change anything but please just chek it few more times.

P.S. I forgot to say collors are nice (I don't like them gradually paleing towards middle of the country but I'll get used to it) BUT MAPS LOOOK FLAT EXTREMELY FLAT even impassible terrains look flat. Will some texture be added like I don't know maybe some completely unrelated game EUIV or we need to be happy with this flat map.
silly, stefan tvrtko got crowned there and took up the name stefan to get the support of the serbian nobility, as his title literally meant that he ruled over the serbian vassal lands, anyways bosnian language existed even in 1189, that can easily be proven in kulin bans charter to the republic of dubrovnik :)
 
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First of all why croatia on the map is just in the sea region? If you gona put Croatia on the map then give it Slavonia and Zagreb regions as well, no sense in just giving it sea region.
Second Bosnians did not exist in 1337. Bosniaks are simply Croats and Serbs that acepted muslim religion. Untill turkish conquest of Serbia Bosnia was majority Croat with river of Drina serving as natural border between western roman empire / eastern roman empire and later on as border between chatolicisam and orthodoxy. Chatolic south slavs are croats, orthodox south slavs are serbs. Serbs will populate bosnia in later ages when they run from ottomans to western parts.
"Ja, Ban Bosanski Kulin, obećavam Tebi kneže Krvašu i svim građanima Dubrovčanima pravim Vam prijateljem biti od sada i dovijeka." kulin bans charter in 1189 :D