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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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Why are so many HRE tags shown as grey, same as non-HRE tags like France? Does this mean those tags aren’t in the HRE despite holding territory in it (Flanders is an obvious example of this) or is something else going on, them all being subjects for example?

The grey tags within the HRE are theocracies.

So to sum up the HRE colour codes

Purple strip - Location is part of HRE
Dark Green - Country is a member of HRE
Dark Blue - Country / Country leader? is an Elector
Light Green - Country is a Free City
Orange - Countries government is a peasantry republic and a member of HRE
Light Blue - Country leader is the leader of the HRE? - In this case the 4 light blue countries are in competition with each other?

Is there also a yellow colour? I can't tell if that is the same as an unselected country

No, I think it is:
Dark/Purplish Blue: theocratic elector
Light Blue: secular elector
Grey: theocratic member
Blueish green: secular member
Red: peasant republics
Light Green: free cities
 
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So to sum up the HRE colour codes

Purple strip - Location is part of HRE
Dark Green - Country is a member of HRE
Dark Blue - Country / Country leader? is an Elector
Light Green - Country is a Free City
Orange - Countries government is a peasantry republic and a member of HRE
Light Blue - Country leader is the leader of the HRE? - In this case the 4 light blue countries are in competition with each other?

Is there also a yellow colour? I can't tell if that is the same as an unselected country

Light Blue - Secular Electors (Bohemia, Brandenburg, Saxe-Wittenberg, [County Palatine of the] Rhine)
Pale Blue - Spiritual Electors (Cologne, Mainz, Trier)
Orange - Peasant Republics
Bright Green - Imperial Cities
White - Theocracies
Blueish-Green - Monarchies
 
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I'm hearing that "International Organization" term is open to change. What about something like "Political Order".
"The Catholic Church is a Political Order"
"The Anti-French Coalition is a Political Order"
"The Tatar Yoke is a Political Order"
"The Haudenosaunee Confederacy is a Political Order"
 
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Just noticed this but the palatinate seems to be called 'Rhine; why is that the case?
The old name of the entity was County Palatine of the Rhine, Palatinate is a shortened name (I'm not sure how common the term Palatinate was officially and/or when it started to be used).
 
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My favorite dev diary by far!!! So many possibilities! So, could a rival country be in union (same leader) as one of my vassals countries? Could I declare war to change the "head of state". Or possibly the other way around. I have a union with a vassal of a rival country. Do I have a cb to declare war and break the vassalage? Lastly (if all the above are true) What happens when I declare war to a rival which I have a union with one of its vassals? Is the vassal country fighting against me even though we have the same ruler?

Could this system have anything to do with the 100 years war? Since it was this situation where the English king was technically a vassal of the France king that sparked many conflicts after the 1066s.
 
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The grey tags within the HRE are theocracies.



No, I think it is:
Dark/Purplish Blue: theocratic elector
Light Blue: secular elector
Grey: theocratic member
Blueish green: secular member
Red: peasant republics
Light Green: free cities
They should probably change that. It’s gonna be impossible to tell non-members and theocratic members apart as is.
 
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I swear, all I can think about at work today is the English King attacking one of the provinces of the High Kingship of Ireland, just to kick the hornets nest and have an Irish swarm of loyal clansmen descending from all Irish territories to attack the Pale.

Imagine the final battle scene of the Avengers Endgame when they're about to fight Thanos, but everyone is wearing green kilts and throwing potatoes. And there is a random bagpipes player in the background.
Would be a bit ahistorical.

As someone once said, whenever you roast an Irishman, you'll always find another to turn the spit.
 
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Its a neat design tool for the dev team and modders to provide flavorful content

This is undoubtedly the correct decision.

If the player or AI could create these sorts of organisations in game, they would inevitably be overly generic. Handcrafted not-Tag specific content is the best sort of content.

I could not be happier about the direction this game is taking.
 
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Can an IO that "owns land" interact directly with the population in those lands? That is, can an IO pay or tax the population (or specific subsets of the population) of a location directly (with said payments hence impacting the estate of the owning country)?
 
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Will the League of Mayapan and the Triple Alliance (Aztec Empire) make use of this system? Please tell me at least the League of Mayapan does and has unique mechanics.
 
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the hre map would look so much cleaner without the stripes, which seem to be covering just about everything. I'm sure they're useful, but would it be possible to substitute them for some other way of conveying their info - the elegance of the map without them would be off the charts
 
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If I am not wrong, this system will represent the case of Ryukyu being both a Chinese and Japanese vassal at the same time? These are things I expected for EU6 or something
 
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