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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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I've been thinking, with the fact that PU's will work with the IO system, does that mean that we can recreate the irl thingy where brandenburg a subject of the emperor and an elector was "in pu" with prussia, a polish subject?

yes
 
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The map looks gorgeous. Is this the place for extremely small nitpicks? If not, I'm gonna delete mine below.

The area between Bern, Lucerne, Schwyz and Uri seems to be labeled "Obw.", for "Obwalden". In my opinion, it would be better to call it "Unterwalden": Unterwalden was one of the original members of the Swiss Confederation and consisted of Obwalden and Nidwalden (from "ob dem Wald", above the forest, and "nid dem Wald", below the forest). Without Nidwalden, Obwalden seems out of place - better to just combine the two into Unterwalden (the distinction between them was nebulous anyway in the early 14th century).

I tried to add sources for my claim, but it won't let me post links, so I can just say the article on Unterwalden in the Historical Dictionary of Switzerland is a good start.
 
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Seeing the granularity of the map, never seen before; seeing the presence of Andorra, Bern and Ditmarschen; seeing all those small locales just make the absence of San Marino even more jarring.
We demand Sammarinese representation!
 
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Another thing:

As a hobby sinologist I was very happy to see you used the correct romanization of the chinese word for emperor (皇帝).
And of course love that china will have some nice flavor right from the start.
 
is it possible to mod an IO that appear later in the game? for example if country A conquer enough land and has X amount of years passed an event or decision appear to form the IO i scripted?

also on the caliphate thing will it be only one thing or will each three sect of islam (sunni,shia and ibadis) have their own caliphate IO? like ck2/3.
 
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This looks amazing. I see the mention of characters. Will they work differently from EU4? Obviously no one is expecting CK3 type of characters. But I do wonder whether prominent characters will be represented somehow.
 
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What determines whether or not a country gets a dynamic name? Like Bohemia isn’t called the kingdom of Bohemia yet the nearby Hungary is called fully the kingdom of Hungary. Is this just a matter of WIP or are there specific requirements for a country to have a title? (I would personally like all countries to have their full title, although I understand this may be annoying when you have smaller states).

For the map, its almost always the "size on the map"
 
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does this include price ranges? in victoria 3 they cant go above 90%ish if you try to set the range above 0.99 then it will break and not have a price

price range is scripted.. only thing that is hardcoded is no price can be <0.01 iirc
 
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IO = multiple countries.
Tready = bilateral only.

And yes, our treaties are entirely new and unique as well..
Is the generic diplomacy tab(i.e when you click on a country and bunch of buttons show up) getting a complete rework too?in EU4 dynamic diplomacy was quite good compared to every other pdx game so I'm curious what aspects are getting a rework.
 
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If it costs 1 slot or 6.5 capacity doesn't matter in the end.. its a simple change, and we are not sure which one we want atm.

I would keep slots but implement them in a way that could be easily changed into capacity by mods. I don't believe that casual players would be ok with capacity instead of slots. It would be too overwhelming, too many choices, not clear effect.

So expand number of slots by 50%, add variable cost to allow ally France for 3 slots (but no decimals visible to the player - you may allow 2 guarantees with 1 slot, but 1 guarantee should also cost 1 slot for simplicity) and leave complicated capacity for mods.
 
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Can Mercenaries withdraw from a battle if they sense they are about to lose / die and disband ready to be employed by anyone ? I know you can bribe mercenaries to switch between factions but I’m just wondering if there’s a happiness/ satisfaction mechanic for mercenaries and if it’s low and losing a battle they can just withdraw from battle .
 
I've been thinking, with the fact that PU's will work with the IO system, does that mean that we can recreate the irl thingy where brandenburg a subject of the emperor and an elector was "in pu" with prussia, a polish subject?
Hey @Johan

Does this mean that such cases would have special interactions and situations when your vassals fall into PU from foreign countries?

I.e. From what I understood English possesions in France would still be a subject of France while the PU lasts (amazing), so could England decide / influence their PUs in France to stop paying tribute to France or joining France's wars to undermine France?

What would happen if someone's PU and their overlord went into war, is it a case by case depending on type of subject and type of PU? Or would the vassal country become neutral automatically or decide which side they support?
 
Very interesting! Combining these two mechanics: I guess one could mod in an IO lead by a specific location-less country? That would kind of create a "playable IO" or an AI controlled IO with its own plans and agency.

Which reminds me: Does the papacy survive as the leader of the catholic church IO if it loses all its locations?